Macross II and Roman Holiday

[lord_breetai]

Mentioned this in another thread and did a search so this appears not to have been discussed before. But to those who might not be aware, Macross II carries a lot of homages to a 1950s film called Roman Holiday staring Audrey Hepburn. So much is borrowed infact that Macross II is in itself bascially a scifi retelling of the story.

This is the most obvious scene refenced by Macross II: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8Uoezs6Nm0

There's more but the story itself is very, very close.

We have a Princess who ends up meetng a irresponsible American reporter on a European tour (after she's run away from the embassy where she was staying), the reporter takes her to spend the night at his apartment when she apparantly has nowhere to go other then wanting to see the colleseum and the sites of Rome; the reporter at this point as no idea who she is.

The next day his irresponsible ways get him in trouble (he skipped out on the princesses press conferance which got cancelled because she was "ill", and he lied making up fake details about it) it's at this point he sees a picture of the princess and realizes who he agreed to show around Rome. He then makes a deal with his editor promising to bring in an exclusive interview with the princess so that he won't get fired.

He promises to show Anya (the Princess) around Rome, but gets his photographer friend to follow along so they can take pictures and get a killer scoop. He meets up with her she gets "her hair cut short in a barbershop facing the famous Trevi Fountain"(wiki), just like Ishtar getting her hair cut as Mash's. He takes her around Rome, shows her the face of truth(see above).

Gov't agents eventually tack them down and try to get the Princess back, they have a big scuffle and escape. The Princess falls in love with the reporter, Joe... but realizes her duty won't allow them to be together and leaves to go back to the embassy without revealing who she is. In the end Joe refuses to tell his editor what he knew about the Princess' disaperance and the Princess' press conferance the photogapher gives the pictures back to the Princess as a momento of her time with Joe, instead of selling them to the newspaper.

Now... combine the photographer and Joe into one person, and you have Hibiki... make the Princess Ishtar, and you have about 1/3rd of Macross II's plot. Thematically the inclusion of extra love interests for both characters just represent their own respective worlds they have to go back too after their short time together. And the music and war, well of course it'd just be Roman Holiday the anime and not Macross without those

I don't know if this film is famous among Japanese or was well liked in it's time... it might be because it did make a brief apperance as a play in Sakura Taisen (from the Dramatic card game) but that is an anacronism. But it deffinity was a big inspiration for the plot of Macross II.

Edited October 27, 2008 by lord_breetai

[d3v]

Yep, I noticed all that when I watched Macross II as well.

[Oihan]

Mentioned this in another thread and did a search so this appears not to have been discussed before. But to those who might not be aware, Macross II carries a lot of homages to a 1950s film called Roman Holiday staring Audrey Hepburn. So many illusions and references infact that Macross II is in itself bascially a scifi retelling of the story.

This is the most obvious scene refenced by Macross II: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8Uoezs6Nm0

There's more but the story itself is very, very close.

We have a Princess who ends up meetng a irresponsible American reporter on a European tour (after she's run away from the embassy where she was staying), the reporter takes her to spend the night at his apartment when she apparantly has nowhere to go other then wanting to see the colleseum and the sites of Rome; the reporter at this point as no idea where she is.

The next day his irresponsible ways get him in trouble (he skipped out on the princesses press conferance which got cancelled because she was "ill", and he lied making up fake details about it) it's at this point he sees a picture of the princess and realizes who he agreed to show around Rome. He then makes a deal with his editor promising to bring in an exclusive interview with the princess so that he won't get fired.

He promises to show Anya (the Princess) around Rome, but gets his photographer friend to follow along so they can take pictures and get a killer scoop. He meets up with her she gets "her hair cut short in a barbershop facing the famous Trevi Fountain"(wiki), just like Ishtar getting her hair cut as Mash's. He takes her around Rome, shows her the face of truth(see above).

Gov't agents eventually tack them down and try to get the Princess back, they have a big scuffle and escape. The Princess falls in love with the reporter, Joe... but realizes her duty won't allow them to be together and leaves to go back to the embassy without revealing who she is. In the end Joe refuses to tell his editor what he knew about the Princess' disaperance and the Princess' press conferance the photogapher gives the pictures back to the Princess as a momento of her time with Joe, instead of selling them to the newspaper.

Now... combine the photographer and Joe into one person, and you have Hibiki... make the Princess Ishtar, and you have about 1/3rd of Macross II's plot. Thematically the inclusion of extra love interests for both characters just represent their own respective worlds they have to go back too after their short time together. And the music and war, well of course it'd just be Roman Holiday the anime and not Macross without those

I don't know if this film is famous among Japanese or was well liked in it's time... it might be because it did make a brief apperance as a play in Sakura Taisen (from the Dramatic card game) but that is an anacronism. But it deffinity was a big inspiration for the plot of Macross II.

Anyone else want to say that II is a rehash of DYRL??

All joking aside, thanks for the read. Tis some interesting information indeed. I think I'm going to have to find a copy of Roman Holiday and check it out now. It makes me wonder what other influences there are in the Macross universe.... I can only think of a couple.... Thanks again!

[lord_breetai]

Anyone else want to say that II is a rehash of DYRL??

All joking aside, thanks for the read. Tis some interesting information indeed. I think I'm going to have to find a copy of Roman Holiday and check it out now. It makes me wonder what other influences there are in the Macross universe.... I can only think of a couple.... Thanks again!

Oh no problem, I'm hoping to get a new video camera by Christmas and hope to start a couple of video blogs (as well as some independent film projects)... this is one I deffinitly want to do as a video blog (I also want to do a trailer of Macross II using audio from the Roman Holiday trailer)... so I've been debating on posting this comparison for a while... but decided to go ahead.

[Oihan]

Oh no problem, I'm hoping to get a new video camera by Christmas and hope to start a couple of video blogs (as well as some independent film projects)... this is one I deffinitly want to do as a video blog (I also want to do a trailer of Macross II using audio from the Roman Holiday trailer)... so I've been debating on posting this comparison for a while... but decided to go ahead.

Well, when all is said and done please keep us informed!

[thegunny]

Ah but they never ate ice cream in the square like they did in Gunslinger Girl.

[Renato]

I don't know if this film is famous among Japanese or was well liked in it's time...

Yeah, it's big in Japan. And Audrey Hepburn herself is eternally popular here, most likely because her physical attributes incorporate all of the "cute, petite" features that Japanese women (and many men) adore.

[Mr March]

I've not seen the Hepburn film, but it sounds like parallels are there. Especially the character of Mash, who seems to have little purpose beyond being the character to cut Ishtar's hair, which would be necessary to a plot mimicking said film. While I can't say for certain whether this is a definite parallel, it's certainly sounds possible. Hell, Macross Frontier carries numerous influences from Sergio Leone's Once Upon A Time In The West.

[lord_breetai]

Yeah, it's big in Japan. And Audrey Hepburn herself is eternally popular here, most likely because her physical attributes incorporate all of the "cute, petite" features that Japanese women (and many men) adore.

Interesting to know. I should be going to Japan for my practicum in less then a year... can't wait to kinda learn this insider culture stuff first hand.

Edited October 27, 2008 by lord_breetai

[lord_breetai]

I've not seen the Hepburn film, but it sounds like parallels are there. Especially the character of Mash, who seems to have little purpose beyond being the character to cut Ishtar's hair, which would be necessary to a plot mimicking said film. While I can't say for certain whether this is a definite parallel, it's certainly sounds possible. Hell, Macross Frontier carries numerous influences from Sergio Leone's Once Upon A Time In The West.

Did you watch the youtube link in my first post? that scene is almost exactly the same as the scene with Hibiki and Ishtar at the Mouth of Truth. It's obvious from that alone that there is some homage to Roman Holiday in Macross II... and that's a big reason why that to have all that relocated Roman architecture too.

Hmm now I recall Roman holiday was also referenced in the .hack anime too wasn't it?

[Mr March]

Not yet, I'll likely have to watch it later today when I finish work.

[AcroRay]

Very interesting read! Thanks for posting this!

[Zinjo]

It is somewhat disappointing that the love story was "lifted" from Roman Holiday. Oh well "there is nothing new under the sun"... It does explain the apparent "knee jerk" change in Hibiki's affections though. Roman Holiday didn't have a love triangle in it....

[lord_breetai]

It is somewhat disappointing that the love story was "lifted" from Roman Holiday. Oh well "there is nothing new under the sun"... It does explain the apparent "knee jerk" change in Hibiki's affections though. Roman Holiday didn't have a love triangle in it....

Well that could also be largely due to the fact that the story was cut as well. In the end Hepburn and Greg's characters still loved each other but realized they were from seperate worlds, and they cherished the time between them as something to remember. Had Macross Zero not been shortned or had it's budget cut they might have been able to achieve that a bit more naturally, instead of having her return to her world after she sees Hibiki and Silvie snuggling.

Really Silvie and Lord Feff coud have just been an extension of that "different world", like must be with like... mentality, that constricted Hepburn's character. Really Silvie's change was kinda sudden too.. no one really evolved naturally. Feff wanted Ishtar from the start. Hibiki goes from wanting a scoop, to wanting Ishtar (maybe?) to wanting Silvie... Silvie has her quasi-boyfriend, then jumps to Hibiki.

[Mr March]

Oh yeah, that's definitely a near shot for shot grab. A very good find l_b.

[d3v]

Well that could also be largely due to the fact that the story was cut as well. In the end Hepburn and Greg's characters still loved each other but realized they were from seperate worlds, and they cherished the time between them as something to remember. Had Macross Zero not been shortned or had it's budget cut they might have been able to achieve that a bit more naturally, instead of having her return to her world after she sees Hibiki and Silvie snuggling.

Wait, but wasn't Macross II originally planned as a 6-episode OAV from the very beginning (at least that's what the interviews seem to indicate)?

[lord_breetai]

Wait, but wasn't Macross II originally planned as a 6-episode OAV from the very beginning (at least that's what the interviews seem to indicate)?

really? I thought it was 8 or 12 or somethin like that... I know the budget got cut. I thought the series length did too... Oihan come back we need you.

[jenius]

Only six episodes, no reduction in size.

[TheLoneWolf]

really? I thought it was 8 or 12 or somethin like that... I know the budget got cut. I thought the series length did too... Oihan come back we need you.

Nope. The vol.1 Japanese laserdisc shows the release schedule for the rest of MII, only 6 episodes are named as well as their future release dates. Also, LA Hero stated in an interview that the series was planned as six episodes from the get go.

[lord_breetai]

Nope. The vol.1 Japanese laserdisc shows the release schedule for the rest of MII, only 6 episodes are named as well as their future release dates. Also, LA Hero stated in an interview that the series was planned as six episodes from the get go.

hmm... I thought I heard that somewhere... well whatever. It maybe could have used a couple more episodes to pace it out better imho.

[TheLoneWolf]

hmm... I thought I heard that somewhere... well whatever. It maybe could have used a couple more episodes to pace it out better imho.

Heh, I hear it everywhere! Though I can see why the rumor is so persistant, the first half of the series moves along at a casual pace, then it becomes harried in episodes 5-6 while the animation quality drops off faster than Wall St. Since most american macross fans are familiar with the premature demise of Souther Cross, I think it's easy for them to apply that same scenario to MII.

One particular internet rumor that I found interesting was that Bandai was going to cancel the series early leaving MII incomplete, but US Renditions agreed to provide additional funding to make sure that all six episodes got completed. I doubt it's true and I've yet to find any concrete evidence supporting it.

edit: Oh yeah, thanks for linking MII and Roman Holiday! I've never seen the movie before, but it explains why Ishtar's hair was inexplicably cut short.

Edited October 28, 2008 by TheLoneWolf

[d3v]

Maybe they spent so much time having fun on the first few episodes and they realized too late that they only had a couple of episodes left to close it and no budget to extend.

Edited October 28, 2008 by d3v

[lord_breetai]

edit: Oh yeah, thanks for linking MII and Roman Holiday! I've never seen the movie before, but it explains why Ishtar's hair was inexplicably cut short.

yeah makes a little more sense for a Princess wanting to go incognito then for a priestess with a tracking bracelet.

[Oihan]

really? I thought it was 8 or 12 or somethin like that... I know the budget got cut. I thought the series length did too... Oihan come back we need you.

Haha, I wish there were more episodes (planned). ='(

[Ginrai]

I've heard it was just a matter of sales dropping after the first volume so they cut some of the budget.

Roman Holiday, huh? Interesting. I've never seen that movie. I assumed the "it eats your hand" thing was a reference to some movie, but I had no idea what. But really, it's it just one episode that is like Roman Holiday?

[lord_breetai]

well it's mostly the one episode yes... but in a larger sense it's kinda the whole Ishtar side the story, just reading the plot and you can see a lot of parallels to Ishtar, and the whole fact that Hibiki is an irresponsible reporter just like Joe.

That's not to say that Macross II is totally dependent on Roman holiday, it does introduce it's own themes like censorship of media, and the ever present war is not fun messege (which really hits home cause you get the sense that in Macross II the only alien race that humanity ever fought before the Marduk was the Zentraedi and they've had 80 years worth of effortless victories everytime a new Zentraedi fleet shows up, so war did become entertainment for those at home).

Macross II does stand on it's own because of everything that goes on with Silvie's end of the story, and the general war effort. But there's always I think a touch of it in Hibiki and Ishtar... It gets a little more general though, being that they both remain "fish out of water" stories, where a guy shows a girl a side of life she didn't know, and that in the end the fish realizes that she has to go back to her pond.

[taksraven]

well it's mostly the one episode yes... but in a larger sense it's kinda the whole Ishtar side the story, just reading the plot and you can see a lot of parallels to Ishtar, and the whole fact that Hibiki is an irresponsible reporter just like Joe.

That's not to say that Macross II is totally dependent on Roman holiday, it does introduce it's own themes like censorship of media, and the ever present war is not fun messege (which really hits home cause you get the sense that in Macross II the only alien race that humanity ever fought before the Marduk was the Zentraedi and they've had 80 years worth of effortless victories everytime a new Zentraedi fleet shows up, so war did become entertainment for those at home).

Macross II does stand on it's own because of everything that goes on with Silvie's end of the story, and the general war effort. But there's always I think a touch of it in Hibiki and Ishtar... It gets a little more general though, being that they both remain "fish out of water" stories, where a guy shows a girl a side of life she didn't know, and that in the end the fish realizes that she has to go back to her pond.

I still think that this theory is a little bonkers. Especially if you are talking about a story idea. I mean, most popular entertainment is derivative of earlier works.

Taksraven

[MisaForever]

Great, now I need to rent Roman Holiday

[Gubaba]

Great, now I need to rent Roman Holiday

Yeah, watching Audrey Hepburn looking gorgeous is certainly a chore, isn't it?

[dreamweaver13]

Yeah, watching Audrey Hepburn looking gorgeous is certainly a chore, isn't it?

how hard it must be!

hmmm... if Istar is Audrey in Roman Holiday, is Sheryl Audrey in Breakfast at Tiffany's?

[lord_breetai]

I still think that this theory is a little bonkers. Especially if you are talking about a story idea. I mean, most popular entertainment is derivative of earlier works.

Taksraven

lol how so... theres enough in there already (the mouth of truth scene, the short haircut, the main character's proffesion, Ishtar/Audery going awol from their duties, being shown a world she never knew) that is plainly directly lifted from Roman Holiday, it's not that crazy to draw a couple futher comparisons with how the two characters behave in the end.

As you just said, most popular entertainment is derivative.