Gubaba Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 For the original Eva series I don't feel there was a "point to get." Rather it was just a mix of pseudo-science, religion, and politics strung together with the crazy glue that is mass merchandising. Yes, exactly. Thank goodness other series don't get involved in mass merchandising. I'd hate to see Macross toys, Gundam models, Haruhi figures, and other such things around. Luckily for us, Eva is the ONLY series ever to put out merchandising EVER. The purity of anime is saved!
Ghost Train Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 Well I didn't say it wasn't pervasive (nor that it is a bad thing) lol. /goes to undust figures.
Gubaba Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 Well I didn't say it wasn't pervasive (nor that it is a bad thing) lol. /goes to undust figures. Nah, it's just a pet peeve of mine...it seems to be the received wisdom that Eva is only about merchandising, when, rather ironically, they originally decided that there would be NO toys, models, or figures for the show, and it was only because of public demand that they made some...and then more...and then more... As such, it's probably one of the only mecha shows ever to appear on TV that wasn't created primarily to sell toys. And yet it always gets flak for selling toys.
VFTF1 Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 (edited) What is the appeal of Neon Genesis Evangelion? I always avoided it and recently decided to sit down and finally watch the show. I am 20 episodes in and I still don´t get it. I don't like the design of the EVA's. Angels look silly and the characters are boring. Also, after watching 20 episodes, I shouldn't still have a million questions about everything and everybody. I can't imagine there is a pay off. What an odd coincidence. I just [re] watched the first two episodes and found myself melancholically wanting a smoke, since (as my thinking goes), the world will end and we're all gonna die anyways. So... you don't get it? Can you elaborate? I mean - what's not to get? You don't like the designs of the EVAs? I think they are spot on given that the EVAs lok like caged in human beings - the armor plating - particularly on 00, looks like it's suffocating the creature inside, like sadistic S&M chains. That's brilliant design given that that's exactly what the EVAs are. The angels look silly? How is it possible that they look silly? They are abstract works of art. Geometrical abstractions - most of them at least - patently excellent enemies. The characters are boring??? That's almost impossible for me to concieve. What is boring about them? All of them are extremely well developed. I'm not going to laundry list it - but do you have any reasons why you find them boring? And WHY do you think that after watching 20 episodes you shouldn't still have a million questions about everything and everybody? Isn't the mark of an excellent story that the further and deeper you go - the more profound and deep the questions that you ask become? Otherwise, the work is shallow. I'm really interested in you giving more details about your impressions because to me - they are shocking. NGE is the all time best serious work of anime that exists bar none. I mean, yeah yeah, Macross is awesome and Gurren Lagann is great, but whenever a non-Otaku asks me about my anime-love, I ALWAYS suggest NGE and use it as THE "example" of excellent anime. I found it enthralling from the get-go; but I like weird, confusing stories with puzzle pieces all over the place. It's also beautiful, poetic, tragic, Quixotic and seductive. But this is a conversation for the NGE series thread - Air- : use the search function to find the NGE series thread and maybe please write more about your thoughts in that thread. Pete Edited November 28, 2009 by VFTF1
VFTF1 Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 For the original Eva series I don't feel there was a "point to get." Rather it was just a mix of pseudo-science, religion, and politics strung together with the crazy glue that is mass merchandising. That's not true. I refuse to believe that because the story is TOO well thought out, the characters are TOO well developed and there's way too much thought to the philosophical angles in this series for it to be a happy coincidence. I am aware that the director said that the title of the anime was chosen, amongst other reasons, because it "sounded important" and that the Christian imagery was chosen NOT as a serious statement on Christian theology, but only because Christianity is so alien in Japan (going off the wiki here) - but that doesn't change the fact that this series does an amazing job of raising compelling philosophical and psychological issues while also being an excellent work of story telling and art. Nah, it's just a pet peeve of mine...it seems to be the received wisdom that Eva is only about merchandising, when, rather ironically, they originally decided that there would be NO toys, models, or figures for the show, and it was only because of public demand that they made some...and then more...and then more... As such, it's probably one of the only mecha shows ever to appear on TV that wasn't created primarily to sell toys. And yet it always gets flak for selling toys. And my pet peeve is that the accusation about merchandising fails to take into acount the quality of that merchandise. I mean, I don't know how many crappy EVA toys were ever made - but there are certainly some rather excellent pieces out there.... Pete
Jasonc Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 Every interview that I read with the creators, they seemed to have the series so thought out and planned. What I think Evangelion is, is a series that has so much concept planned for it, that it wasn't able to have all of it put into it. The outcome was some sort of abstract interpretation of what they saw, where to the creators and director, it probably makes all sense, and to us, it makes little sense. Evangelion makes a lot of sense to me, but that took watching it through 3 times and seeing it through a very abstract P.O.V. Each time I watched it, it gave me new points of view, and things I didn't see before, became clear as day the other times. While that shouldn't be the norm for anime, Evangelion was more like a painting to me, and paintings are meant to be viewed more than once. Maybe a stupid analogy and all, but that's how I viewed it, and it helped me to understand it. On the topic at hand, I just got done watching Shakugan no Shana, and am currently watching Blood Plus, and of all things, Metal Armor Dragonar, which is very good. I've been trying to watch the DVDs I haven't seen yet, out of a collection of roughly 500 DVDs, so I have a lot of catching up to do.
VFTF1 Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 Maybe a stupid analogy That's a great analogy! I really liked it. But...yeah...I took the liberty of finding the correct thread if Ari- wants to continue this discussion - which I will be glad to: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...0&start=140 Pete
RDClip Posted November 29, 2009 Posted November 29, 2009 I'm currently going though Orguss and right now (about ep25) I'm not that impressed. The story doesn't really grab me and the mechas look kinda too bulbous to me. Nice to see them rip off character designs from Macross though
Keith Posted November 29, 2009 Posted November 29, 2009 (edited) Eva makes perfect sense, you just ened to pay attention to what's actually going on, not what you "think" is going on. As for Orguss, it is fluff through much of it, but wait til you get to that epic final arc. In fact, when I finish Clone Wars season one, and rewatching Giant Robo, think I'll go back and rewatch Orugss. Edited November 29, 2009 by Keith
wolfx Posted November 29, 2009 Posted November 29, 2009 Took me awhile but i finally finished Tokyo Magnitude 8.0. OH SHI- What a sad plot twist. Now watching back prev episodes and realised the signs were there all along.
Ghost Train Posted November 29, 2009 Posted November 29, 2009 Eva makes perfect sense, you just ened to pay attention to what's actually going on, not what you "think" is going on. I admit that there was probably some plan to make a coherent story. Now, don't get me wrong - I loved the original series, and in my rebellious teenage youth thought that the rampant usage of "religious" symbolism was kind of cool. As a consumer of average intelligence (master's degree, 3.8 GPA through college, 1310 SAT(old system) ... yea I have to mention this, cuz the next statement is going to be: u r dumb), I can't be blamed for not making sense of something that wasn't strung together in a logical enough manner to make sense. If you ask 5 people who have payed attention and watched the series over 20 times, each one will give you a different interpretation of the story... it is not possible to come up with 1 coherent explanation for everything as: 1) many elements were left purposely vague (i.e. to the "viewer's imagination"), and 2) they tried to do too much. Thus there is more then one interpretation of what's going on.
Gubaba Posted November 29, 2009 Posted November 29, 2009 I admit that there was probably some plan to make a coherent story. Now, don't get me wrong - I loved the original series, and in my rebellious teenage youth thought that the rampant usage of "religious" symbolism was kind of cool. As a consumer of average intelligence (master's degree, 3.8 GPA through college, 1310 SAT(old system) ... yea I have to mention this, cuz the next statement is going to be: u r dumb), I can't be blamed for not making sense of something that wasn't strung together in a logical enough manner to make sense. If you ask 5 people who have payed attention and watched the series over 20 times, each one will give you a different interpretation of the story... it is not possible to come up with 1 coherent explanation for everything as: 1) many elements were left purposely vague (i.e. to the "viewer's imagination"), and 2) they tried to do too much. Thus there is more then one interpretation of what's going on. Meet me over at the Eva thread and I'll give you a reply of sorts.
lechuck Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 Well I finished watching all of Armored Trooper Votoms universe that is available - yes Mellowlink too - this last weekend. I even made it a point to watch the TV, OVAs and movies in chronological order. All I can say is... WOW! This is a masterpiece for the real robot genre, in fact Macross feels very corny compared to Votoms as though the parody status was never dropped. All that is left for me to watch now is Heretic Saint and the newly announced OVA. There doesn't seem to be a fansubbing group that has done Heretic Saint is there...?
RCB Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 (edited) What is the appeal of Neon Genesis Evangelion? I always avoided it and recently decided to sit down and finally watch the show. I am 20 episodes in and I still don´t get it. I don't like the design of the EVA's. Angels look silly and the characters are boring. Also, after watching 20 episodes, I shouldn't still have a million questions about everything and everybody. I can't imagine there is a pay off. You know, I own it and have watched it a few times, but only felt it was so so. Perhaps I had too high of expectations when I had first watched it. I felt I understand the story, of course some things go unspoken... but still. Kind of like when everyone panned Dual for being a knock off from Eva, but not only was it completely different, but I actually liked it much better. Go figure. Course I am a big Kajishima fan too, so that plays in too I am sure. Been watching this and that. Need to go through Last Exile again. Its been a while and I loved that series. Edited December 2, 2009 by RCB
Gui Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 Watched Read or Die, the OAV, which I felt was frankly lacking and far too short: it recalled me a lot of Giant Robo the Animation but minus all the strength (no pun intended), the background or the character development of this one Maybe I'll give a try to the TV series though...
Marzan Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 Just finished watching Nadia yesterday. Really quite good except for those awful filler episodes...And yes, I agree with those who have pointed out that it was kinda of lab for a lot of concepts which were later developed in Evangelion. I'm staying old school thoughh. I'm starting Mobile Police Patlabor (the OVA's). I'm curious to see what Mamoru Oshii was up to before Ghost in the Shell...
RDClip Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 Watched Read or Die, the OAV, which I felt was frankly lacking and far too short: it recalled me a lot of Giant Robo the Animation but minus all the strength (no pun intended), the background or the character development of this one Maybe I'll give a try to the TV series though... the story kinda sucked, but the animation was top-notch.
Wanzerfan Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 Stop watching now. If the whole Fourth Child section (and Eva-01 running wild in episode 19) didn't wow you, it's clearly not your thing, and you'll absolutely hate the ending. I found it enthralling from the get-go; but I like weird, confusing stories with puzzle pieces all over the place. What I found wierd is that the mechs in Evangelion were hampered by freaking electrical umbilicals. If I was the enemy, all I had to do was find the umbilical, cut it, and then wait in a nice, safe place until the mech shut down. I would then step out and blow the damned thing to pieces, just to eliminate the freaking threat (as well as for sh*ts and giggles).
Gubaba Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 What I found wierd is that the mechs in Evangelion were hampered by freaking electrical umbilicals. If I was the enemy, all I had to do was find the umbilical, cut it, and then wait in a nice, safe place until the mech shut down. I would then step out and blow the damned thing to pieces, just to eliminate the freaking threat (as well as for sh*ts and giggles). You didn't watch the series, did you?
Bri Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 I'm staying old school thoughh. I'm starting Mobile Police Patlabor (the OVA's). I'm curious to see what Mamoru Oshii was up to before Ghost in the Shell... It's quite different from GITS, more comedy oriented and character driven, but it's really good anime.
Ghost Train Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 What I found wierd is that the mechs in Evangelion were hampered by freaking electrical umbilicals. If I was the enemy, all I had to do was find the umbilical, cut it, and then wait in a nice, safe place until the mech shut down. I would then step out and blow the damned thing to pieces, just to eliminate the freaking threat (as well as for sh*ts and giggles). Well, the EVA's have 5 minutes of power without the cord, which is more than enough time to wreck havoc, that' 15 minutes of combat potential for the whole Asuka/Rei/Shinji team. As Gubaba hints, the EVA-01 eventually looses the need for a cord.
Gubaba Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 Well, the EVA's have 5 minutes of power without the cord, which is more than enough time to wreck havoc, that' 15 minutes of combat potential for the whole Asuka/Rei/Shinji team. As Gubaba hints, the EVA-01 eventually looses the need for a cord. I was also hinting that it's nigh-on impossible to "blow the damned thing to pieces."
Seto Kaiba Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 What I found wierd is that the mechs in Evangelion were hampered by freaking electrical umbilicals. If I was the enemy, all I had to do was find the umbilical, cut it, and then wait in a nice, safe place until the mech shut down. I would then step out and blow the damned thing to pieces, just to eliminate the freaking threat (as well as for sh*ts and giggles). Gettin' a distinct impression that you've never actually SEEN Neon Genesis Evangelion... the EVAs were designed to fight the Angels, not human militaries. The Angels don't exactly use conventional tactics, nor are they generally suited to them. As you'd see if you watched End of Evangelion, even using the strongest available non-nuclear ordinance (the N2 mine) is no guarantee of doing more than annoying the EVA's operator. I'm staying old school thoughh. I'm starting Mobile Police Patlabor (the OVA's). I'm curious to see what Mamoru Oshii was up to before Ghost in the Shell... Mobile Police Patlabor? Good stuff, seriously good stuff. I was introduced to the series by Talos, and I thought most of it was pretty good, with the exception of their strange tendency to reuse the "science creates monster. monster breaks out of lab and starts eating labors" plot, which they use I think three times between the OVA, TV show, and the third movie. I just got done with a binge of comedy-tinted robot shows and some romance comedies... most of them did not thrill me. I gave Martian Successor Nadesico a go (since I missed it back in the day), and it did not thrill me for some reason, the business with that cross between Mazinger Z, Combattler V, and Getter Robo was kind of a pointless bit of camp to me. Super Heavy God Gravion didn't wow me either, and Maburaho (which a friend of mine swore up and down I would find hilarious) was so painfully bad I stopped halfway through the series when the harem comedy protagonist DIED for an incredibly stupid reason and came back as a ghost. Going back to classics with some good ol' fashioned Lupin III series 1.
RDClip Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 I was just listening to some anime music and have a great urge to rewatch RahXephon, one of my favourite animes of all time. And thus, i must do my part to gain awareness for this underappreciated series. A lot of people call it a EVA clone, i'm not quite sure if that is accurate. It does use the same formula of super-robot/monster of the week meets deep characters and plot. However, I always found it more enjoyable and generally has more likable charcters. I also found the love story to be interesting in how it played out. Not to mention having one of the best OP songs of all time. That being said, i really disliked the movie version of the series. It was about 90% reused footage to tell a greatly altered plot, which really ground my gears. So, if you've never seen RahXephon, get your hands on a copy of it and watch it, NOW!.
Keith Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 I actually have Raxhephon waiting to be watched, I'll get there eventually. Might I also reccomend Blue Gender (TV, not movie) for those who haven't caught it yet. Not as good as Votoms, but still pretty good.
Bri Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 Rahxephon seconded. It's hard to deny that both plot and visuals have been influenced by EVA but Rax deserves to be judged on it's own merrits. Lovely art and character design, smooth storytelling and high quality animation, can't really go wrong here.
Marzan Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 I was just listening to some anime music and have a great urge to rewatch RahXephon, one of my favourite animes of all time. And thus, i must do my part to gain awareness for this underappreciated series. A lot of people call it a EVA clone, i'm not quite sure if that is accurate. It does use the same formula of super-robot/monster of the week meets deep characters and plot. However, I always found it more enjoyable and generally has more likable charcters. I also found the love story to be interesting in how it played out. Not to mention having one of the best OP songs of all time. That being said, i really disliked the movie version of the series. It was about 90% reused footage to tell a greatly altered plot, which really ground my gears. So, if you've never seen RahXephon, get your hands on a copy of it and watch it, NOW!. Raxephon is an absolutely outstanding anime. The art, design and just the whole texture were just better than anything in its. I agree with you that the EVA clone angle is not quite accurate since it really has a lot of different to offer to EVA. While the OP song is great, I do think that in general Raxephon is let down by its music. Some of the melodies are just so strangely atonal or experimental that they distracted me from the action on the screen. A shame really.
RDClip Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 (edited) While the OP song is great, I do think that in general Raxephon is let down by its music. Some of the melodies are just so strangely atonal or experimental that they distracted me from the action on the screen. A shame really. I think the music was supposed to be strange and otherworldly. The general concept of the series revolves around music with how the Mu control their mecha(not sure if that is the right word here) and Ayato literally 'Tuning' the world. I don't think a standard rock/pop soundtrack would've have worked. Edited December 6, 2009 by RDClip
Excillon Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 Finally found a decent copy of lensman on stagevu. One of the best anime's EVER. For those who haven't seen it, YOU MUST WATCH IT!
troyness Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 Just got thru "Gundam- 0083 stardust memory." Loved it!!My first gundam experience,I,m a sucker for old skool anime,nice chunky boxy robot mecha,everything hand drawn,good suspenseful soundtrack music that added to the action(though sometimes too loud that it drowned out some dialoge) fairly good plot and characters.I was told not to watch it as a first intro to Gundam as I may get lost with the plot..but I didn,t feel overwhelmed in any way! Can,t wait to check out turn -A Gundam! Also"Blackjack21"-I,m a huge fan of Tezuka,s Blackjack,so I enjoyed this 17 ep series alot.A overall story ark (which is new to the franchise,it usually being episodic),good plot ,characters are ok ,it strays from his origin ,for the sake of the story ark,but does pay homage to a few moments or stories in the manga,the only thing that annoyed me was the stupid hat they but on Blackjack for a good portion of the series(it mightn,t bother a casual viewer,but as a fan it got to me,thankfully there are enough scenes without it on). Next up for me is Cashern-sins.
Keith Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 0079 movie trilogy, you can not watch Gundam without it! And for Tezuka awesomeness, go for Giant Robo.
Robelwell202 Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 I might suggest '08th MS Team', as well. A damn good series, and the one that got me hooked on Gundam UC. I'm working on a few different series, right now... 0080 War in the Pocket 0083 Stardust Memory and... Irresponsible Captain Tylor So far, 0080 has left me wanting more, but 0083 hasn't disapointed, yet. ICT is... well, it's better than I had expected. Funnier than hell, too!
Marzan Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 I think the music was supposed to be strange and otherworldly. The general concept of the series revolves around music with how the Mu control their mecha(not sure if that is the right word here) and Ayato literally 'Tuning' the world. I don't think a standard rock/pop soundtrack would've have worked. I agree that a standard rock/pop soundtrack wouldn't have worked, but quite frankly I think the composer could have done a better job at it. I didn't mind the music that the Mu used to control their Golems (I think that's what they called them??), but some of the other background stuff was just...lame.
Gui Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 [...] And for Tezuka awesomeness, go for Giant Robo. Didn't you mean Yokoyama instead?
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