Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted October 22, 2008 Posted October 22, 2008 (edited) seriously though, even without a neck, the head on the 25S looks a hell of a lot better on this than on the 1/72 kit. I'd agree, if the lasers can angle out more, the closeup shows that the joints may be ball jointed. Sooo true... I also have the annoying tendence of expecting the most for my money, so I won't justify Yamato, which is not perfect (but IS better, keeping in mind the pictures shown). Better only in looks, something has to do more than look good to be better, otherwise you are better off buying a variable garage kit. Actually, I pretty much love the extra "soft and GUNPOD-fall-aware" hands on my 1/48 VF-1J. And I like them because they are VERY DIFFERENT from "standard" hands. Bandai has included 4 sets of very similar hands. It's their way of doing things; it's correct, and has its reasons. But I don't like it. Well one of the reasons they are including more hands is so that the gunpod does not fall off, which you just said you liked when Yamato did it. I just put it this way: even thoguh Yammies are far from perfect, I'm used to "fine tune" them at home to make them better. Examples of this are the "7 steps (and more)" in retooling the original vf-11b, retouching the original vf-1a CF, cuttingsome sprue rests on 1/48 VF-1J, fixing screws on VF-0S, SV-51 Nora, retooling YF-19 and its FAST packs to correct ver.1 issues... My point is, you shouldn't have to. Yamato pushes 110%, takes risks and innovates, but suffers from QC issues. No, they don't. I've said before that Yamato is ambitious, and we all know that, but if quality is not up to par, that is what some might say is half assed execution. Looks good but don't expect it to stay together. Obviously they direct their efforts to make something look good, but when most of their releases are flawed overall in some way, shape or form, that tells you a lot about their execution. Mineswell include the screwdrivers, superglue, and spare parts. These toys simply don't deserve the DX title. What does DX mean? Deluxe. This toy is perfect variable, has diecast, and is significantly larger than both the plamo and 1/100 toy. It deserves the DX title. It is not completely accurate, but I like the way it looks aside the mega crotch of doom and short nose gear. Every time I see these 1/60 DXs, they look sturdy to me. Hearing the musings from the 1/72 model thread, and I wonder why people are treating a display piece like a freakin toy. The 1/60 is a freakin toy. Exactly I am just willing to accept some asthetic compromises for the sake of sturdiness. Agreed. Really by the way people sound, it seems like they are better off, and more accepting, of garage kits or kitbashed Hasegawas instead. if you want to show the model there is always model kit available in various form.True, and this is possibly the reason Bandai offers the VF-25 in 3 forms, the plamo, the DX, and 1/100. Edited October 22, 2008 by Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0
Sumdumgai Posted October 22, 2008 Posted October 22, 2008 With all the proportional problems, stubby landing gear, and all that, I wouldn't say this fatty is worthy of being called Deluxe. If Bandai had actually put in the effort and made the 1/60 VF-25 look good, it would be worthy of being called Deluxe. But then again Bandai has a history of calling crap DX, like the 1/65 VF-19kai. If you want perfect transformation your only choice is the chunker. If you want a good looking VF-25 you're either stuck with a model kit, or a partsforming toy. Can't go into Macross Frontier with their A-game, but with a C-game instead.
Graham Posted October 22, 2008 Author Posted October 22, 2008 With all the proportional problems, stubby landing gear, and all that, I wouldn't say this fatty is worthy of being called Deluxe. Heh, Bandai stick the 'DX' name on anything. I mean the Macross 7 1/65 scale DX VF-19Kai, VF-19S and VF-17S/D were hardly worthy of a 'Deluxe' title either. Graham
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted October 22, 2008 Posted October 22, 2008 I mean the Macross 7 1/65 scale DX VF-19Kai, VF-19S and VF-17S/D were hardly worthy of a 'Deluxe' title either. Seems that Bandai uses the DX title as an indicator of size, they do the same thing with their sentai lines which are bricks. Still the 25 is worthy of the DX title, it is the biggest 25 toy set for release.
anime52k8 Posted October 22, 2008 Posted October 22, 2008 If you want perfect transformation your only choice is the chunker. If you want a good looking VF-25 you're either stuck with a model kit, or a partsforming toy. Can't go into Macross Frontier with their A-game, but with a C-game instead. the partsformer looks like ass as much or more than the DX, and at lest the DX is PT. and can we drop the fu*king A-game/C-game crap. it's annoying as all Fu*cking hell.
Black Valkyrie Posted October 22, 2008 Posted October 22, 2008 Guys if most of you are upset about the DX VF-25. Why don`t just get the kit and do as you like with it.
anime52k8 Posted October 22, 2008 Posted October 22, 2008 Guys if most of you are upset about the DX VF-25. Why don`t just get the kit and do as you like with it. because it's more fun bitching about the DX instead, even if we end up buying it. (have I mentioned that I'm going to get at least one of these)
ruskiiVFaussie Posted October 22, 2008 Posted October 22, 2008 Wonder if they will do a combo pack for all Super and Armour parts for each respective pilot's Valk (yep Valk included) I'd be swayed to pick up one of them.
David Hingtgen Posted October 22, 2008 Posted October 22, 2008 Except that half of them never get Full Armor.
ruskiiVFaussie Posted October 22, 2008 Posted October 22, 2008 Yeah i already guessed that, but Re-paints = money = probability. lovely lovely re-paints for bandai.
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted October 22, 2008 Posted October 22, 2008 (edited) Wonder if they will do a combo pack for all Super and Armour parts for each respective pilot's Valk (yep Valk included)Michel and Luca's valks were already announced to come with their respective super armors.Yeah i already guessed that, but Re-paints = money = probability. lovely lovely re-paints for bandai. No different form any other toy company Edited October 22, 2008 by Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0
ruskiiVFaussie Posted October 22, 2008 Posted October 22, 2008 I know it's not different, that's why i hope they will, just like Yamato makes the Super pack for the 1J. Wasn't being hypocritcal of anything there.
Renato Posted October 22, 2008 Posted October 22, 2008 Guys if most of you are upset about the DX VF-25. Why don`t just get the kit and do as you like with it. I'm probably getting the Ozma kit when it comes out. Then I'll either just get a 1/100 VF-25 or maybe the Michel DX, since it will come with FAST packs, sniper rifle and stand. It will be around March or even later (cos of the delays in China) by then, so I will have saved up a bit more money by then.
Black Valkyrie Posted October 22, 2008 Posted October 22, 2008 Michel DX, since it will come with FAST packs, sniper rifle and stand. It will be around March or even later (cos of the delays in China) by then, so I will have saved up a bit more money by then. Yes thats the only DX that I really, for the rest it doesn`t matter.
Radd Posted October 22, 2008 Posted October 22, 2008 Guys if most of you are upset about the DX VF-25. Why don`t just get the kit and do as you like with it. The problem is, some of us want "toys" not "model kits" for a variety of reasons. Some people don't have the time, patience, skills, or work area for model kits. Some of us want toys because of the perfect transformation, and sturdiness factors. Some of us really want to keep all our Valkyries in scale when possible, already having an extensive 1/60 collection of Yamato toys. Really, at this point there's no reason we shouldn't be able to get both the looks and the sturdiness in one package from a company like Bandai, either. I got my Yamato 1/60 v.2 earlier this week, and that thing is solid, in all modes. And looks great. That said, I think a number of people have mentioned canceling pre-orders, or at least deciding to only get one of the DX toys.
Salamander Posted October 22, 2008 Posted October 22, 2008 I know it's not different, that's why i hope they will, just like Yamato makes the Super pack for the 1J. Wasn't being hypocritcal of anything there. Of course, knowing Bandai's milking of molds, we'll get the following set of releases: Confirmed: - Alto - Ozma - Super Michel - Super Luca - Exclusive Alto Super parts Suggested further releases (take with a grain of salt): - Super Alto (Super parts with slightly different color scheme than Exclusive Super parts) - Exclusive Ozma Armor parts - Armored Ozma (Armor parts with slightly different color scheme than Exclusive Armor parts) - VF-27 early version - Super Alto Ranka Rescue Mission version (Super parts with slightly different color scheme than earlier Super Alto and Exclusive Super parts; dual-seat cockpit with Ranka figure included) (Toy show exclusive/mail-in with slightly different colors) - Super Michel Klan Klan version (Toy show exclusive) - Super Luca Tripple Ghost version (Mail-in) - VF-27 Galaxy version (mail-in) - VF-171 standard version (mail-in) - VF-171 Luca custom - VF-171 Alto custom (mail-in) - Macross Quarter - Ghost Galaxy version & VF-25 standard version (mail-in) - Battle Frontier (mail-in, just because Bandai hates you) - Battle Galaxy (regular release, just because Bandai hates you) - Alto final goodbye version (battle damaged, includes plastic smoke/flame trail and exclusive stand) - Alto VF-25 Movie ver. - Ozma VF-25 Movie ver. - VF-27 Movie ver. - Macross Quarter Movie ver. - Michel/Luca/Super Alto/Armored Ozma Movie ver. four-pack (uber-expensive mail-in limited prize toy) - Special Final Episode Armored/Super Alto VF-25 w/ Michel sniper rifle & VF-27 Final version Twin-Pack (uber-expensive mail-in limited prize toy) Also add the obligatory black 'stealth' and clear 'crystal' repaints which will only be available through magazine mail-ins and which will cost 3 times the original price. Each will come with better detailed versions of the pilots and a diorama piece allowing you to build a 1/60 scale segment of the Macross Quarter's landing deck. Then 5 years from now Bandai re-releases all of the limiteds with a 25% price drop just to screw with you.
DarkReaper Posted October 22, 2008 Posted October 22, 2008 Nice list you have there, though I think the VF-171 series would go more like this - VF-171 Standard= regular release, - RVF-171 Standard= toy show exclusive - RVF-171EX Luca=mail-in - VF-171EX Alto = regular release - VF-171EX standard = mail-in The entire RVF-171 and EX line is problematic though as it would require a lot of retooling to get the super pack and EX pack attachment points into the mold and the RVF-171 is just too different to the standard VF-171. I think standard VF-171 is most likely and even then only in 1/100 form. Bandai as an extremely profit orientated company likely ditches the line as the cost/return ratio is likely only close to even. After all they only built the Hero Valks for their major cashcow Macross 7, and didn't even bother to make a VF-11C or Battle 7.
ntsan Posted October 22, 2008 Posted October 22, 2008 You forgot the VF-25 Michel Ranka Attack! version, comes with 4 speaker pod and mini Ranka figure *not official"
Sumdumgai Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 The problem is, some of us want "toys" not "model kits" for a variety of reasons. Some people don't have the time, patience, skills, or work area for model kits. Some of us want toys because of the perfect transformation, and sturdiness factors. Some of us really want to keep all our Valkyries in scale when possible, already having an extensive 1/60 collection of Yamato toys. Really, at this point there's no reason we shouldn't be able to get both the looks and the sturdiness in one package from a company like Bandai, either. I got my Yamato 1/60 v.2 earlier this week, and that thing is solid, in all modes. And looks great. That said, I think a number of people have mentioned canceling pre-orders, or at least deciding to only get one of the DX toys. A wonderful summary of the problems. Model kit does not equal toy. 1/100 partsformer (which looks better but not by much) is not perfect transformation. Bandai made the decision to make it ugly. It's great that they're making a collectors toy. It's sad that it doesn't look like a collectors toy, especially at that price.
nugundamII Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 Yeah but you shouldn't have to fix broke either. I call bullsh!t. Check movie starscream from 2007. Because articulated hands are not only prone to looseness, but also suffer from either sculpt or scale(sad sh!t that the beloved 1/48 has hands that are the same size as the new 1/60), and hell your beloved Yamato only recently realized that putting a tab to secure the gunpod on the articulated hand would keep the gun from falling out. I think they did this with the 19, and 21 too. Oh and Bandai does know about articulated hands, their MG kits have had them for years, and yes they used the tab for weaponry years back. Are you the same guy that complained when Yamato offered bigger swappable hands with the 1/48 GPS armor or Hikaru's 1J? The gullet shouldn't be there pure and simple, it effectively destroys the elegance of the fighter mode. It is worse than the DX VF-25's mega cock of doom. Not to mention, the groin piece on the 19 sits too low, to the point that both the GNU and Revoltech look better, yea it isn't a fair comparison because those don't transform and I understand the reason the crotch and gullet is present is because Yamato wants retractable landing gear bla bla. Yeah the only Macross toys you could afford from Yamato at that price are smaller than the DX VF-25, the 25 is in the same size class as the Macross Plus valks/Zero. OH WAIT. I forgot. Since obviously you are willing to fix broke...add in another $30+ for replacement parts. You can't fix ugly but you can certainly fix broke if you pay up. thank you well Put could have not have spoken/written it better than myself
nugundamII Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 Yeah but you shouldn't have to fix broke either. I call bullsh!t. Check movie starscream from 2007. Because articulated hands are not only prone to looseness, but also suffer from either sculpt or scale(sad sh!t that the beloved 1/48 has hands that are the same size as the new 1/60), and hell your beloved Yamato only recently realized that putting a tab to secure the gunpod on the articulated hand would keep the gun from falling out. I think they did this with the 19, and 21 too. Oh and Bandai does know about articulated hands, their MG kits have had them for years, and yes they used the tab for weaponry years back. Are you the same guy that complained when Yamato offered bigger swappable hands with the 1/48 GPS armor or Hikaru's 1J? The gullet shouldn't be there pure and simple, it effectively destroys the elegance of the fighter mode. It is worse than the DX VF-25's mega cock of doom. Not to mention, the groin piece on the 19 sits too low, to the point that both the GNU and Revoltech look better, yea it isn't a fair comparison because those don't transform and I understand the reason the crotch and gullet is present is because Yamato wants retractable landing gear bla bla. Yeah the only Macross toys you could afford from Yamato at that price are smaller than the DX VF-25, the 25 is in the same size class as the Macross Plus valks/Zero. OH WAIT. I forgot. Since obviously you are willing to fix broke...add in another $30+ for replacement parts. You can't fix ugly but you can certainly fix broke if you pay up. thank you well Put could have not have spoken/written it better than myself
nugundamII Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 (edited) Of course, knowing Bandai's milking of molds, we'll get the following set of releases: Confirmed: - Alto - Ozma - Super Michel - Super Luca - Exclusive Alto Super parts Suggested further releases (take with a grain of salt): - Super Alto (Super parts with slightly different color scheme than Exclusive Super parts) - Exclusive Ozma Armor parts - Armored Ozma (Armor parts with slightly different color scheme than Exclusive Armor parts) - VF-27 early version - Super Alto Ranka Rescue Mission version (Super parts with slightly different color scheme than earlier Super Alto and Exclusive Super parts; dual-seat cockpit with Ranka figure included) (Toy show exclusive/mail-in with slightly different colors) - Super Michel Klan Klan version (Toy show exclusive) - Super Luca Tripple Ghost version (Mail-in) - VF-27 Galaxy version (mail-in) - VF-171 standard version (mail-in) - VF-171 Luca custom - VF-171 Alto custom (mail-in) - Macross Quarter - Ghost Galaxy version & VF-25 standard version (mail-in) - Battle Frontier (mail-in, just because Bandai hates you) - Battle Galaxy (regular release, just because Bandai hates you) - Alto final goodbye version (battle damaged, includes plastic smoke/flame trail and exclusive stand) - Alto VF-25 Movie ver. - Ozma VF-25 Movie ver. - VF-27 Movie ver. - Macross Quarter Movie ver. - Michel/Luca/Super Alto/Armored Ozma Movie ver. four-pack (uber-expensive mail-in limited prize toy) - Special Final Episode Armored/Super Alto VF-25 w/ Michel sniper rifle & VF-27 Final version Twin-Pack (uber-expensive mail-in limited prize toy) Also add the obligatory black 'stealth' and clear 'crystal' repaints which will only be available through magazine mail-ins and which will cost 3 times the original price. Each will come with better detailed versions of the pilots and a diorama piece allowing you to build a 1/60 scale segment of the Macross Quarter's landing deck. Then 5 years from now Bandai re-releases all of the limiteds with a 25% price drop just to screw with you. Apologies for being obtuse but your an idiot! What company doesnt do that Toynami does it Hasbro does it Toy wiz with its marvel figures Yamato does it Takara does it Tomy does it with Zoids Honda, Toyota heck all the car companies do it Bad argument. Shoo back to the drawing board with your lamo excuses point is its a nice toy, things they could do now what they couldnt do a while back and its Bandai's license not Yammies Yammies are nice if you like pop'em off parts that break if you transform it 1.5 times Yamato couldnt figure out to incorporate metal into nice designs they had to go to plastic and they still F' it up I for one like it. I like it as much as I love my Yammie Yf-19 1/72 which I think was pretty good and still is and dont get me wrong I still like yamato and if they werent around you would be lining up to get em Im a macross fan and I like the design and Im grateful we have a valkaryie Bandai hasnt disappointed me yet with SOC stuff Thanks Bandai I appreciate the work you put in yours truely the not so perfectionist whiny baby Edited October 23, 2008 by nugundamII
ruskiiVFaussie Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 (edited) Cool Yamato brought out a YF-19 1/72 scale? *gasp!* no need to call him an idiot, he supplied a detailed list for people to ponder and the last remark was tounge in cheek. Edited October 23, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie
miriya Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 (edited) michael is a march release.... http://www.hlj.com/hlj_gallery2/v/ajmhs08/...C_7910.jpg.html luca too... http://www.hlj.com/hlj_gallery2/v/ajmhs08/...C_7913.jpg.html Edited October 23, 2008 by miriya
Pierre Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 Serious question, How much of this thing is diecast. So far there has not been any mention of its diecast content.
Graham Posted October 23, 2008 Author Posted October 23, 2008 Serious question, How much of this thing is diecast. So far there has not been any mention of its diecast content. Yes, there has. Photos from last months hobby mags, which were posted and discussed in the previous thread showed diecast for the ankles, upper arms ans hip/intake area. (see pic below). Graham
Sumdumgai Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 I wonder if it's going to have paint scrape-age on the die-cast parts after some transformations... I wonder how good the QC will be on this too. They haven't brought their A-game to the table on sculpt. I wouldn't bet on them brining their A-game on QC either, but I'll wait and see on that.
nugundamII Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 Cool Yamato brought out a YF-19 1/72 scale? *gasp!* no need to call him an idiot, he supplied a detailed list for people to ponder and the last remark was tounge in cheek. I kid I kid
Graham Posted October 23, 2008 Author Posted October 23, 2008 I wonder if it's going to have paint scrape-age on the die-cast parts after some transformations... I wonder how good the QC will be on this too. They haven't brought their A-game to the table on sculpt. I wouldn't bet on them brining their A-game on QC either, but I'll wait and see on that. I imagine the diecast hip/ointacke section will be quite susceptable to paint chipping/scraping. Graham
Graham Posted October 23, 2008 Author Posted October 23, 2008 Yamato couldnt figure out to incorporate metal into nice designs they had to go to plastic and they still F' it up Yamato had the sense to realize long ago that an exceess of metal parts and transforming toys do not make a good combination. Not only is paint chipping/scraping prevelant, but you inevitably get a mismatched colors between the painted diecast parts and the plastic parts. Too much diecast can also add too much weight where not needed and increase wear and stress on connecting pegs and joints. IMO on transforming toys metal (steel, not zinc pot metal) should be used only where needed for strength, such as on some joints, swing bars etc. On a bright shiny non-transforming 70s' suber robot toy, lots of diecast is fine, but as soon as you start talking transforming or combining toys, paint chips will happen. Graham
Spiff Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 You know what I want? I want Mikhael's VF-25 with Ranka figure in cute dress - able to stand in cock pit . I also want lights and sounds. I want to press a button on the VF-25 and hear Ranka sing her song to calm the Zendradi. And I want rainbow colored lights to flash all over the Valkyrie as she does so. I doesn't have to come with a stand as long as it comes with custom-Ranka Lee stage. And finally - lots and lots of glitter. Make it with lots of glitter. That would be sweeeet Pete I think I pee'd myself reading this!! Nicely done!
Salamander Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 michael is a march release.... http://www.hlj.com/hlj_gallery2/v/ajmhs08/...C_7910.jpg.html luca too... http://www.hlj.com/hlj_gallery2/v/ajmhs08/...C_7913.jpg.html I just hope the price doesn't exceed 20,000 yen... @ nugundamII: Gawds. Dude, it was a JOKE (based on their way of releasing quadrillions of Gundam variants). No reason to call me an 'idiot'.
regult Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 Of course, knowing Bandai's milking of molds, we'll get the following set of releases: Confirmed: - Alto - Ozma - Super Michel - Super Luca - Exclusive Alto Super parts Suggested further releases (take with a grain of salt): - Super Alto (Super parts with slightly different color scheme than Exclusive Super parts) - Exclusive Ozma Armor parts - Armored Ozma (Armor parts with slightly different color scheme than Exclusive Armor parts) - VF-27 early version - Super Alto Ranka Rescue Mission version (Super parts with slightly different color scheme than earlier Super Alto and Exclusive Super parts; dual-seat cockpit with Ranka figure included) (Toy show exclusive/mail-in with slightly different colors) - Super Michel Klan Klan version (Toy show exclusive) - Super Luca Tripple Ghost version (Mail-in) - VF-27 Galaxy version (mail-in) - VF-171 standard version (mail-in) - VF-171 Luca custom - VF-171 Alto custom (mail-in) - Macross Quarter - Ghost Galaxy version & VF-25 standard version (mail-in) - Battle Frontier (mail-in, just because Bandai hates you) - Battle Galaxy (regular release, just because Bandai hates you) - Alto final goodbye version (battle damaged, includes plastic smoke/flame trail and exclusive stand) - Alto VF-25 Movie ver. - Ozma VF-25 Movie ver. - VF-27 Movie ver. - Macross Quarter Movie ver. - Michel/Luca/Super Alto/Armored Ozma Movie ver. four-pack (uber-expensive mail-in limited prize toy) - Special Final Episode Armored/Super Alto VF-25 w/ Michel sniper rifle & VF-27 Final version Twin-Pack (uber-expensive mail-in limited prize toy) Also add the obligatory black 'stealth' and clear 'crystal' repaints which will only be available through magazine mail-ins and which will cost 3 times the original price. Each will come with better detailed versions of the pilots and a diorama piece allowing you to build a 1/60 scale segment of the Macross Quarter's landing deck. Then 5 years from now Bandai re-releases all of the limiteds with a 25% price drop just to screw with you. This was so funny...I am still laughing as I type!
jenius Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 Paint chips>Broken parts That said, the Toynami MPC Alpha is the best example of why diecast and a modern transforming toy don't always mix. Too much diecast to fathom and all it does is cause strain on already weak joints since all of those are made of terrible grade plastic. One thing to note though, Yamato was always the WORST company I ever witnessed when it came to putting paint on metal. I've handled many other painted metal toys that saw some wear without nearly the destruction that Yamato's products always showed if you breathed on them funny. I forgave Yamato for this since the toys they used painted metal on were amongst their first. I suspect we'll find Bandai a whole lot better at color matching and avoiding excessive paint chipping. I also suspect Bandai knows not to make the lousy engineering decisions Toynami made (but this is an industry that always surprises me).
mr.chogokin Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 Why do I get the feeling that paint will only chip from metal parts if they are not coated with a coat of glass powder (epoxy)... transforming toys like the socs do chip but very rarely and that's also due to ill-fitting parts, which is rare in Bandai's case. My cheap Yamato gokins paint chip because there is no protective coat. Same goes for some of my Takara Binaltechs. Same colors on different materials can be made to look very similar in shade. It all boils down to the extra steps taken during the manufacturing process. Which ultimately depends on the maker to take it.
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