Macross Frontier Criticism

[Gubaba]

I don't think it's that much of a stretch. Come on...am I the only one who thought fold quartz was a symbol for oil?

Yes.

[RF-26AAC]

2. Moe...this criticism just bores me - it bores me and annoys me. If you watch SDF Macross TV, you will see Minmey in a bikinni, you will see Misa being feminine and helpless, you will see Roy picking up chicks who go gaga over him, you will see Roy and Hikaru looking up skirts, you will see lots of eroticism and sexual allusion - and you will NOT be shocked, because from the perspective of 2009, it all looks so innocent and dated and non-controversial. Take three steps back and try looking at the eroticism in Macross: Frontier from that point of view and suddenly it becomes clear that if anyone is going "oh my god!" over "those scenes" then it demonstrates that the person is just a prude and not that the scenes are somehow worthy of criticism. The story is about a love triangle. It is hard to have a love story without eroticism. That Macross: Frontier plays with sexuality is fine. There is absolutely nothing shocking about it, and making an issue of it is pointless: it's just meant in good fun.

I have to disagree here, Ranka and Sheryl are *FAR* more sexualized than Misa and Minmay ever were, and at least Minmay *looked* and *acted* like a 16 or 17 year old girl, which is more okay than a girl that looks and acts 12. The eroticism was fine, but the oversexualization of Ranka was icky.

3. Alto also chose - he chose both girls. "You are my wings" he says, grabbing both of them. So this criticism of "Hikaru chose" while Alto didn't is just wrong. They all love eachother. Hikaru loved Misa. Minmey didn't love him; Minmey only loved herself.

Um, no. You can't do that, you can't choose to 'have it all'. I knew that son of a bitch was going to pull that, though. I just knew it.

Hikaru farting made up his mind, dude. Alto did NOT.

My main problem with Frontier, like most people, was the pacing. It got down to the last four episodes, and I thought, there is no way they can resolve this in any less than 4 eps without doing something stupid.

Sure enough, something stupid happened.

I liked Frontier a lot, but 25 episodes was not enough, and was certainly the most half-assed ending I've seen in quite some time. It was like they *were* planning to do a 2nd season but were denied and suddenly had to wrap up the story in a hurry.

It wasn't ridiculous or introspective like Eva, it was just like... that was it? What the hell did that resolve?

-RF-26

[ChronoReverse]

Just keep in mind that a hallmark of one sort of good writing is that people will "discover" references to their contemporary events. There are many things that are timeless such as a war over resources and most of the time, if you see something in a work, it's really just you fitting it in.

Edited October 29, 2008 by ChronoReverse

[DrunkenSano]

I have to disagree here, Ranka and Sheryl are *FAR* more sexualized than Misa and Minmay ever were, and at least Minmay *looked* and *acted* like a 16 or 17 year old girl, which is more okay than a girl that looks and acts 12. The eroticism was fine, but the oversexualization of Ranka was icky.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought the sexualization of Ranka was a little on the pedo side. I guess that's one reason I preferred Alto + Sheryl than Alto + Ranka. Sheryl looks older than 17 while Ranka definate does not look or act like she was 16.

As for the sexualization comparison of Minmay and Misa to Rank and Sheryl, it is true that Macross F had a lot more. But I attribute to the different era when the animes were created. Back when Macross started, the generation wasn't close to being as sexualized as today's teens. They didn't have Britney Speares, the epitomy of a whore, back then as a teen icon. Sadly, it's like the norm now for our younger generation.

[Xeros]

As for the sexualization comparison of Minmay and Misa to Rank and Sheryl, it is true that Macross F had a lot more. But I attribute to the different era when the animes were created. Back when Macross started, the generation wasn't close to being as sexualized as today's teens. They didn't have Britney Speares, the epitomy of a whore, back then as a teen icon. Sadly, it's like the norm now for our younger generation.

QFT

[Ginrai]

As for the sexualization comparison of Minmay and Misa to Rank and Sheryl, it is true that Macross F had a lot more. But I attribute to the different era when the animes were created. Back when Macross started, the generation wasn't close to being as sexualized as today's teens. They didn't have Britney Speares, the epitomy of a whore, back then as a teen icon. Sadly, it's like the norm now for our younger generation.

Okay, Britney Spears is not a product of Japanese popular culture, but a product of American pop culture. You cannot apply our cultural values to other countries. Furthermore, Macross Frontier was not aimed at children the way Macross was. It aired at 1 AM in Japan. Who do you think it was aimed at? That's right, adult otaku.

Edited October 30, 2008 by Ginrai

[jenius]

I thought Japanese kids were just more extreme about what they considered "Morning cartoons."

[dreamweaver13]

I thought Japanese kids were just more extreme about what they considered "Morning cartoons."

Mom, mom, it's morning now!! time to watch my cartoons!!wake up and turn on the TV!

Edited October 31, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[Xeros]

Okay, Britney Spears is not a product of Japanese popular culture, but a product of American pop culture. You cannot apply our cultural values to other countries. Furthermore, Macross Frontier was not aimed at children the way Macross was. It aired at 1 AM in Japan. Who do you think it was aimed at? That's right, adult otaku.

That's the point

almost they all tend to evaluate the series in "occidental standards"

[Nexx Stalker]

Um, no. You can't do that, you can't choose to 'have it all'. I knew that son of a bitch was going to pull that, though. I just knew it.

Hikaru farting made up his mind, dude. Alto did NOT.

Has no one considered that Alto is only 17 years old and 1) doesn't "have" to have a girlfriend and 2) maybe he doesn't like Ranka and Sheryl "in that way"and is searching for someone else?

He did the right thing.

[Radd]

I agree. In reality, romance rarely, if ever, wraps up as neatly as it usually seems to do in fiction. Now, there's merits to having such an ending in fiction, but it does not always have to be that way. In this case, the "conflict" presented by the love triangle was more or less resolved by the end of the series, even if the romance itself continues on without a clear ending. The characters yet have their lives to live, and it's shown that the relationship between all three has moved to a more open and emotionally mature level.

[Killer Robot]

It's also worth noting that Hikaru took over two years to make up his mind, and only really did after one of the girls just about said, "It's your plane or me, boy." Then there's how the Isamu/Guld/Myung thing worked out. And Mylene took years and never went anywhere either. In comparison to past series, and with it an open question what more is to come from Frontier, I'd say Alto is doing all right.

Further, I think it a bit of a misrepresentation to take the "You are both my wings" speech as being just a romantic decision or copout: it didn't read as "Let's just be friends" or as "Hey, how about a threesome?" but rather as "I'm not going to hurt one of you for the sake of the other." That had been a big thing in their recent lives, after all: both of the girls' lives had taken very dark twists since that birthday present incident, or the singoff in the hospital, and Alto was caught right in the middle of it.

Ranka departed because she realized she was being used, because her connection to the Vajra meant that being used as a weapon against them left her feeling literally pained and wrong, and because she lept to conclusions about Alto's care for her. When she struck out to try to find a solution to the war, even before she knew she was falling into a trap she knew she would be leaving her home and appearing a traitor. Sheryl had death facing her and when she finally swallowed her pride in her own independence and got to have her dream of just a little time happily together with someone she loved, it was tainted because she could never know what place pity played in his decision to stay with her. And Alto? Just look to how he was stricken by Ozma's words about protecting the women important to him: he had women like that, and for all he could tell one was dying and all he could offer was comfort, and the other was inexplicably gone to join with the mindless and heartless monsters that had hurt and killed close friends and nearly destroyed Frontier, and he might have to kill her just to save everything else he knew. Alto seemed to feel about Frontier much as Sheryl did about Galaxy: a stifling and contemptible glass prison, but also his home that he would not allow to suffer.

So this brings things to the final battle: Ranka made into a pawn of Grace, spending what she thought was her final strength in the last gamble to free Ranka. When that worked, and Grace made her counterattack, her time was over: the others might win or lose, but she was no more use to the battle and only in the way of the other two even in victory. That is where that speech finds its context, in the three admitting they could not succeed alone, that they cared about each other, and that this was no time or place for any to let another come to harm. Sheryl cared for Ranka despite intervening jealousy and did not want to see Alto truly alone, so she forbade him to kill her while there was any hope left; Ranka found Sheryl her inspiration and would not see her die in body or spirit, and Alto was not going to choose one as his love at the expense of crushing all relationship with the other.

So it all ends, with the game still on but important differences in dynamics: Ranka is mature enough to know who she loves and compete for him, Sheryl can try for love with a future ahead of her and without worry of affection returned only for charity, and Alto having some breathing room to actually sort his heart out for the first time. He finally did what he couldn't when he fought Ozma, and now he has some hope for a peaceful rather than bittersweet resolution of the triangle. I can't really call that much of a copout.

[dreamweaver13]

It's also worth noting that Hikaru took over two years to make up his mind, and only really did after one of the girls just about said, "It's your plane or me, boy." Then there's how the Isamu/Guld/Myung thing worked out. And Mylene took years and never went anywhere either. In comparison to past series, and with it an open question what more is to come from Frontier, I'd say Alto is doing all right.

Further, I think it a bit of a misrepresentation to take the "You are both my wings" speech as being just a romantic decision or copout: it didn't read as "Let's just be friends" or as "Hey, how about a threesome?" but rather as "I'm not going to hurt one of you for the sake of the other." That had been a big thing in their recent lives, after all: both of the girls' lives had taken very dark twists since that birthday present incident, or the singoff in the hospital, and Alto was caught right in the middle of it.

Ranka departed because she realized she was being used, because her connection to the Vajra meant that being used as a weapon against them left her feeling literally pained and wrong, and because she lept to conclusions about Alto's care for her. When she struck out to try to find a solution to the war, even before she knew she was falling into a trap she knew she would be leaving her home and appearing a traitor. Sheryl had death facing her and when she finally swallowed her pride in her own independence and got to have her dream of just a little time happily together with someone she loved, it was tainted because she could never know what place pity played in his decision to stay with her. And Alto? Just look to how he was stricken by Ozma's words about protecting the women important to him: he had women like that, and for all he could tell one was dying and all he could offer was comfort, and the other was inexplicably gone to join with the mindless and heartless monsters that had hurt and killed close friends and nearly destroyed Frontier, and he might have to kill her just to save everything else he knew. Alto seemed to feel about Frontier much as Sheryl did about Galaxy: a stifling and contemptible glass prison, but also his home that he would not allow to suffer.

So this brings things to the final battle: Ranka made into a pawn of Grace, spending what she thought was her final strength in the last gamble to free Ranka. When that worked, and Grace made her counterattack, her time was over: the others might win or lose, but she was no more use to the battle and only in the way of the other two even in victory. That is where that speech finds its context, in the three admitting they could not succeed alone, that they cared about each other, and that this was no time or place for any to let another come to harm. Sheryl cared for Ranka despite intervening jealousy and did not want to see Alto truly alone, so she forbade him to kill her while there was any hope left; Ranka found Sheryl her inspiration and would not see her die in body or spirit, and Alto was not going to choose one as his love at the expense of crushing all relationship with the other.

So it all ends, with the game still on but important differences in dynamics: Ranka is mature enough to know who she loves and compete for him, Sheryl can try for love with a future ahead of her and without worry of affection returned only for charity, and Alto having some breathing room to actually sort his heart out for the first time. He finally did what he couldn't when he fought Ozma, and now he has some hope for a peaceful rather than bittersweet resolution of the triangle. I can't really call that much of a copout.

Very well said.

[Sergorn]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought the sexualization of Ranka was a little on the pedo side. I guess that's one reason I preferred Alto + Sheryl than Alto + Ranka. Sheryl looks older than 17 while Ranka definate does not look or act like she was 16.

Ok. I just got to go and ask. Where is Ranka being sexualized in the series ? There's certainly sexualisation of Sheryl, and even Nanase to a lesser degree... but Ranka ?

-Sergorn

[taksraven]

Ok. I just got to go and ask. Where is Ranka being sexualized in the series ? There's certainly sexualisation of Sheryl, and even Nanase to a lesser degree... but Ranka ?

-Sergorn

Well, there was the portrait of Ranka on the side of the Koenig Monster (which was a hot pic, in very deranged kind of way) and then there was the part when she was being humped by Ai-kun.

Taksraven

[Sergorn]

Well, there was the portrait of Ranka on the side of the Koenig Monster (which was a hot pic, in very deranged kind of way) and then there was the part when she was being humped by Ai-kun.

*that*'s called sexualization ? People don't need much today then. When I think sexualization I think more like Karen@Code Geass personally

-Sergorn

[Gubaba]

*that*'s called sexualization ? People don't need much today then. When I think sexualization I think more like Karen@Code Geass personally

-Sergorn

Well...there was also Alto getting a beaver shot in the hospital, but that was more "comedic embarrassment" than "sexualization."

In other words, I too see very little sexualization of Ranka. Unless you get turned on when girls in tight spacesuits feel the urge to poop.

(Lord knows, SOMEBODY in the world has to have that fetish...)

[Final Vegeta]

Well...there was also Alto getting a beaver shot in the hospital, but that was more "comedic embarrassment" than "sexualization."

I still think of it as a sexualization, because the character is aware of sexual implications. There is also the scene in ep. 2 where Alto copped a feel.

To the contrary, naked spiritual projections, although disturbing to anime neofites, have usually no sexual implications at all.

FV

[Nomad]

Greetings all, new to the forum. Long time fan of Macross. Though everything seems to be have said, in all fairness Frontier wasn't the worst of the saga. But not the strongest either. From my own perspective what saved it was the implementation of core elements from the previous series into it. Granted it has it's own elements, but I guess the feeling was more "refreshing" seeing these elements. I do have to say, and no I am not certain of the purpose, Episode 10's implementation of Macross Zero was genius. Yes, I am not a fan of Zero, but let's just say it gave me a reason to have watched it lol.

Edited November 1, 2008 by Nomad

[taksraven]

You know, I was watching some of Frontier the other day (the end of the episode where the SMS goes pirate and leaves the fleet) and I was still getting the same thrill that I did when I first watched it. I think that this series as a whole will stand up to repeated viewing and should age well.

I'm not saying that it was above any criticism, but I think that negative criticisms of this show have to be considered to be minor compared to the positive aspects of this great series.

I think that a lot of people, in SF and anime fandom in particular, are too eager at times to nitpick things to death. The LOVE to scream "WORST EPISODE EVER!" at any opportunity.

Taksraven

[Einherjar]

I think that a lot of people, in SF and anime fandom in particular, are too eager at times to nitpick things to death. The LOVE to scream "WORST EPISODE EVER!" at any opportunity.

Taksraven

Well, this is the Internet, it happens everywhere. Also, many of those people have no idea what they're talking about.

j/k