Macross Frontier Criticism

[Vic Mancini]

Just finished Frontier and I have to say I agree with some of the criticism from http://www.colonydrop.com/index.php/2008/1...d-the-en?blog=1

The trademark Japanese silliness and "boy accidentally gropes girl" jokes were way too over the top for me to really enjoy the series. Seeing absolutely everyone in the series fall in love felt redundant too. Luca, Klan, and the bridge bunny's emotions for their desired partners felt contrived. More like physical attraction / crushes than actual love.

I didn't like Brera Sterne much either. It was terribly obvious much earlier than it should've been that he was related to Ranka, (almost as obvious as Ranka's pet being a Vajra baby), and his ultra strong ultra agile cocky cyborg man-boy with emo hair sulking in the shadows playing a lonely melody on a musical instrument schtick has been done.

I did like the action and animation a lot. The battles/dogfights/destruction was some of the best ever in the Macross franchise. I loved the concept of the sniper-valk and the teamwork between Alto and Michael. And I don't mind how Alto didn't choose between Ranka and Sheryl at the end. Actually, I kind of liked that. I thought the series was going to pander to us with an obvious payoff/ending but it did something unexpected instead. I liked the SMS idea and the decisions that had to be made and the ensuing mutiny when it was sold to NUNS.

But overall the tone was just not what I wanted. I would've preferred a more mature tone for the series. Like GITS or even Macross Plus.

[ntsan]

But overall the tone was just not what I wanted. I would've preferred a more mature tone for the series. Like GITS or even Macross Plus.

But since they need to attract newer generation of fans, there must have something that connect with them. If it was really mature then the target audience would be limited to older fans. Recently I just beginning to watch the original Macross TV and I already can't stand the cliche *arhhhhhhh* (but DYRL is much better for me)

Edited October 23, 2008 by ntsan

[Vic Mancini]

But since they need to attract newer generation of fans, there must have something that connect with them. If it was really mature then the target audience would be limited to older fans. Recently I just beginning to watch the original Macross TV and I already can't stand the cliche *arhhhhhhh* (but DYRL is much better for me)

I don't really buy that. I'm not asking for a R-rated tone, (although that would be really cool). But at least something as mature as Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, or Return of the Jedi... which were huge movies for kids back in the day but weren't over the top childish.

[ntsan]

I don't really buy that. I'm not asking for a R-rated tone, (although that would be really cool). But at least something as mature as Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, or Return of the Jedi... which were huge movies for kids back in the day but weren't over the top childish.

Well on Star Wars, that was deculture! back then.. since nothing was like Star Wars before it comes out. Do you think the newer EPs is less mature than the older ones? I think it does for me at least..

[Save]

I don't really buy that. I'm not asking for a R-rated tone, (although that would be really cool). But at least something as mature as Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, or Return of the Jedi... which were huge movies for kids back in the day but weren't over the top childish.

You and most don`t buy it because you are thinking with foreign Macross / anime minds. It`s different in Japan currently panty shots, boys love, moe, D+ size breats, and lolicon are all the rage here. It will take more than cool mecha to get funding for a 25 episode anime series in this day and age unless it is Gundam. Serious anime series now usually only get theater releases for less than a month then straight to DVD. I know people on here will say otherwise but it just the way it is for the majority of productions at this time. Majority is not 100% there is a minority of other types of successful anime but they are not plastered around Akihabara or in the common book shops throughout Japan (I'm not referring to anything done my JUMP which is mainstream here).

Times will change and go full circle and some day will get more series again but when that is nobody knows, hopfully Arakami's soon to be announced next project will turn the tied.

[Morpheus]

I agree with Save, those are the current anime trends in Japan right now. Anime rating is based on the fan on Japan I think and I think anime production will always fulfill Japanese fan standard on term of anime (cliche and fan services alike).

If any of you want a somewhat mature anime that almost fit with western standard, I suggest watching Studio Ghibli's anime.

[dreamweaver13]

The Japanese in general ,whether it be in anime or videogames, have hit a wall when it comes to creativity lately. Alot of their product is just shovelware. Not that the West is much better mind you.

Like you said, I wouldn't put all this on Japan. hey at least they're trying to come up with new concepts (Deathnote was a way out there concept, just as an example) even though they play on the same market and patterns. But generally, the whole entertainment world may be running out of ideas (with notable exceptions of course). look at hollywood... all the buzz i hear are about movies based on tv series, comics, and older movies.

we've reached the point where novel ideas are just jumping from one forum to another. a comic series turned movie. a movie continued on tv. a tv series continued in comics. an animated version. and then a remake movie. it is at this time that i give props to anyone with a totally original idea (and for this, i hionestly believe that Japan is still offering a lot, compared to the west). Granted, even in original ideas, they would have to put some standard cliches in order for it to sell. otherwise, who would put up the money to make them? hey, it's way better than not getting to see these original ideas at all, right?

Edited October 24, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[dreamweaver13]

I agree with Save, those are the current anime trends in Japan right now. Anime rating is based on the fan on Japan I think and I think anime production will always fulfill Japanese fan standard on term of anime (cliche and fan services alike).

If any of you want a somewhat mature anime that almost fit with western standard, I suggest watching Studio Ghibli's anime.

now this is a weird statement. as a rabid fan of Studio Ghibli movies, i am quite uncomfortable (read as: having epileptic seizures) with them being described as fitting "western standards". *cough* madagascar *cough*.

[Gubaba]

now this is a weird statement. as a rabid fan of Studio Ghibli movies, i am quite uncomfortable (read as: having epileptic seizures) with them being described as fitting "western standards". *cough* madagascar *cough*.

I think we need to define "western standards" and "eastern standards" if that is to be a profitable line of thought for this thread (especially since Ghibli seems to be some of the Japaneseiest* anime I've ever seen).

The general assumption seems to be that if it's a well-told, linear plot, that's Western Standards. If there's a lot of "Whose anal cavity did they pull THAT ending out of?"-type talk, then that Eastern Standards. Oh, and naked girls seems to be an eastern Standard as well, since I guess western guys don't, y'know, dig chicks...or something like that.

* The neologism "Japaneseiest" is copyright 2008 by Gubaba. Any use of the term, even in cases with no financial gain, can and will get you fined up to 10,000 units of the currency of Gubaba's choice.

Edited October 24, 2008 by Gubaba

[d3v]

The general assumption seems to be that if it's a well-told, linear plot, that's Western Standards. If there's a lot of "Whose anal cavity did they pull THAT ending out of?"-type talk, then that Eastern Standards. Oh, and naked girls seems to be an eastern Standard as well, since I guess western guys don't, y'know, dig chicks...or something like that.

Funny, wasn't there someone who was complaining to the effect that Frontiers plot wasn't "Whose anal cavity did they pull THAT ending out of?" some time back?

the currency of Gubaba's choice.

Nanase pics.

[wolfx]

I would called it rating boost episode or fan-service episode with Sheryl panty flying all over Mihoshi.

Ratings would've been higher if the animation of the panties was fluid and the characters looked fappable. I mean the eggwhite thing was sooooo intentional but in no way erotic as it was intended.

You and most don`t buy it because you are thinking with foreign Macross / anime minds. It`s different in Japan currently panty shots, boys love, moe, D+ size breats, and lolicon are all the rage here. It will take more than cool mecha to get funding for a 25 episode anime series in this day and age unless it is Gundam. Serious anime series now usually only get theater releases for less than a month then straight to DVD. I know people on here will say otherwise but it just the way it is for the majority of productions at this time. Majority is not 100% there is a minority of other types of successful anime but they are not plastered around Akihabara or in the common book shops throughout Japan (I'm not referring to anything done my JUMP which is mainstream here).

Times will change and go full circle and some day will get more series again but when that is nobody knows, hopfully Arakami's soon to be announced next project will turn the tied.

QFT. Btw i think AA size breasts are the new rage rather than the D+ ones. What with songs and music videos on nico2 idolising flat chestedness. Probably comes hand in hand with the lolicon trend.

[Mr March]

My theory on it is perhaps a little unfair...I just assumed that the majority of of people here got into SDFM when they were thirteen or younger, so the idea of a sixteen-year-old piloting a robot seemed, well, perfectly reasonable. Now those same people are in their thirties, and the idea seems a little more ludicrous.

I also think that a lot of people like to project themselves onto the main character, which is a little bit easier if that character is the same age as the viewer.

Of course, this is all just speculation on my part...

I'd say that's absolutely correct. It's definitely harder to relate to anime aimed mostly at a younger audience when it's now some 25 years after one became a Macross fan. But it's just part of being a long time fan that one must accept. At least we had our Macross Plus.

[TheLoneWolf]

My theory on it is perhaps a little unfair...I just assumed that the majority of of people here got into SDFM when they were thirteen or younger, so the idea of a sixteen-year-old piloting a robot seemed, well, perfectly reasonable. Now those same people are in their thirties, and the idea seems a little more ludicrous.

I also think that a lot of people like to project themselves onto the main character, which is a little bit easier if that character is the same age as the viewer.

Of course, this is all just speculation on my part...

I first saw SDFM when I was 15 and I found it pretty unbelievable that most of the SDFM characters were only 17 or 18. Out of all my friends who were 17 and 18 at that time, I said to myself that there's no way in hell that I could ever see any of them displaying the amount of leadership and courage that the SDFM characters did. And I'm not just saying this in retrospect, this is actually what I was thinking back then.

Of course you have to take into consideration that I was a Western teen watching a show that was geared towards Japanese teens.

[aerocombatpilot]

I first saw SDFM when I was 15 and I found it pretty unbelievable that most of the SDFM characters were only 17 or 18. Out of all my friends who were 17 and 18 at that time, I said to myself that there's no way in hell that I could ever see any of them displaying the amount of leadership and courage that the SDFM characters did. And I'm not just saying this in retrospect, this is actually what I was thinking back then.

Of course you have to take into consideration that I was a Western teen watching a show that was geared towards Japanese teens.

That's intresting because me and my friends never considered the age of the characters while watching it.

[TheLoneWolf]

That's intresting because me and my friends never considered the age of the characters while watching it.

While I was watching the show I just assumed they were in their early 20's; except for Minmay, no other ages are mentioned. I also remember scratching my head wondering why an older guy like Hikaru (whose age I wrongly assumed) was interested in a girl as young as Minmay. When I was finished with the show I looked up Macross online and was shocked when the Compendium listed their true ages.

[Einherjar]

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkC...1208&cmd=tc

He didn't sound very enthusiastic about Macross Frontier last December, but he liked the EX-Gears. Recently he mentioned it on his last show, but I haven't heard his last show because I don't really care. His style really bugs me for some reason.

[Vic Mancini]

Oh, and naked girls seems to be an eastern Standard as well, since I guess western guys don't, y'know, dig chicks...or something like that.

I know you're half-joking with this statement, but I'll reply anyway.

As a hetero Westerner I do dig chicks. But there is a time and place for sexuality. Just because I like girls doesn't mean I want to look at massive bouncing tits all the time. For example, I don't want them splashed in between every scene of an anime that I'm trying to take seriously. But my criticism goes beyond that. It's more in regards to the "boy accidentally groping girl" jokes and how everyone is always embarrassed by everything happening around them and all the silly emotional spazz-outs. All that over the top Japanese slap stick, (even if it is the trend in Japan), is just not my cup of tea.

I think I could watch Mac Plus with friends, or the GF, and they'd appreciate it to an extent.

But I can't even imagine watching Frontier with anyone in my life. It would be an very uncomfortable experience.

One could even argue that Frontier is not even on par with Harry Potter in terms of seriousness/maturity. It's really hard for me to imagine the trends in Japan to be that out of sync with the West.

On a side note: Who produced the Stand Alone Complex gigs? Didn't they come from Japan? Both those series were brilliant and the perfect level of maturity and serious tone that my preferences gravitate towards. How was SAC so successful when it mostly defied all the "Japanesie" trends that were apparently forced on Frontier?

[Gubaba]

I know you're half-joking with this statement, but I'll reply anyway.

As a hetero Westerner I do dig chicks. But there is a time and place for sexuality. Just because I like girls doesn't mean I want to look at massive bouncing tits all the time. For example, I don't want them splashed in between every scene of an anime that I'm trying to take seriously. But my criticism goes beyond that. It's more in regards to the "boy accidentally groping girl" jokes and how everyone is always embarrassed by everything happening around them and all the silly emotional spazz-outs. All that over the top Japanese slap stick, (even if it is the trend in Japan), is just not my cup of tea.

I think I could watch Mac Plus with friends, or the GF, and they'd appreciate it to an extent.

But I can't even imagine watching Frontier with anyone in my life. It would be an very uncomfortable experience.

One could even argue that Frontier is not even on par with Harry Potter in terms of seriousness/maturity. It's really hard for me to imagine the trends in Japan to be that out of sync with the West.

Harry Potter gets pretty serious by about book four, so I'm not sure that your statement is all that devastating.

Other than that, I more or less agree. But I do think that a lot of people are bandying about "Western standards" and "Eastern standards" without defining what they mean by those terms, so that nobody is on the same page.

[Shaka_Z]

While I was watching the show I just assumed they were in their early 20's; except for Minmay, no other ages are mentioned. I also remember scratching my head wondering why an older guy like Hikaru (whose age I wrongly assumed) was interested in a girl as young as Minmay. When I was finished with the show I looked up Macross online and was shocked when the Compendium listed their true ages.

heh... college age guys go after barely legal chicks all the time. hell. I'm 37 (38 in a month) and find I have more in common (in terms of interests, conversation, etc) with women 18-25 than with older women - especially given my interests, which the vast, overwhelming super-majority of women my own age tend to look down their noses at. it's to a great extent a matter of closed versus open mindedness.

[Renato]

I know you're half-joking with this statement, but I'll reply anyway.

As a hetero Westerner I do dig chicks. But there is a time and place for sexuality. Just because I like girls doesn't mean I want to look at massive bouncing tits all the time. For example, I don't want them splashed in between every scene of an anime that I'm trying to take seriously. But my criticism goes beyond that. It's more in regards to the "boy accidentally groping girl" jokes and how everyone is always embarrassed by everything happening around them and all the silly emotional spazz-outs. All that over the top Japanese slap stick, (even if it is the trend in Japan), is just not my cup of tea.

I think I could watch Mac Plus with friends, or the GF, and they'd appreciate it to an extent.

But I can't even imagine watching Frontier with anyone in my life. It would be an very uncomfortable experience.

Exactly. I've said this many times, but it is very important to be able to establish an acceptance of anime across various demographics. Stuff marketed only towards otaku just makes me sad and stimulates neither the arts nor the public as a whole.

One could even argue that Frontier is not even on par with Harry Potter in terms of seriousness/maturity. It's really hard for me to imagine the trends in Japan to be that out of sync with the West.

On a side note: Who produced the Stand Alone Complex gigs? Didn't they come from Japan? Both those series were brilliant and the perfect level of maturity and serious tone that my preferences gravitate towards. How was SAC so successful when it mostly defied all the "Japanesie" trends that were apparently forced on Frontier?

They're REALLY out of sync. As for SAC, well, I have my reservations on that one concerning Motoko's insinstence on always wearing a bikini to work. Besides that, I see your point, but here I must stress that the Japanese audiences are very much segregated so while you can say it was a critical and commercial success in the sense that it had a good fan following and high ratings and DVD sales which spawned a second season, that means nothing to the mainstream (or what can be called mainstream) Japanese society, since any otaku-oriented property has low-level recognition in the general sphere. Gundam and Evangelion are notable exceptions, but even then, it's like, people may recognize the drawings. Doesn't mean they watch the show.

In order for this to change and to promote this media to a higher status the things which turn people off (stupid maid costumes, jiggly breast jokes, squeaky voices, etc) must be toned down. Only then people will open their eyes to anime's true potential, and we might get something like, I dunno, Wings of Honneamise being enjoyed by a wide audience.

Personally, I don't want to dicscuss this stuff with just otaku.

[moncikoma]

not much of critics i say....but there's one that keep bugging me...

why it must end in ep 25...it should be 28 no wonder in the final ep everything is rushed...

maybe because the director want it to end at 25...because of the 25th anniversarry..

[ntsan]

not much of critics i say....but there's one that keep bugging me...

why it must end in ep 25...it should be 28 no wonder in the final ep everything is rushed...

maybe because the director want it to end at 25...because of the 25th anniversarry..

Yep, along with Macross Quarter (1/4 or 25/100) and Macross Frontier being the 25th NMC colonization ship

[milty66]

Overall the show was entertaining, but I felt there was no real climax. Everything was kind of perfunctory.

Things I personally thought should have been addressed:

1. Alto is just way too effeminate to take seriously through the series and his character design doesn't change to evoke a maturation of his character (e.g. possibly cutting his hair short at some point) and the school thing could have been leveraged better to the advantage of the story. Possibly having a mood similar to the first Kimagure Orange Road movie, but with a space war and mechs.

2. Brera was worse. I cringed every time I saw his "uniform"

3. The flight suits in general ( atleast SMS) were just a little too skin tight. I thought the NUNS were ok, not great. My favorite's probably the flight suit designed in MZero.

4. The characters just weren't deep enough, with the exception of Sheryl, whom I thought atleast demonstrated some emotional range between the first ep and the last.

5. Kawamori blew an opportunity ( with Frontier and with Zero) to make a Macross which was not only relevant as an anime but to imbue it with a contemporary allegory from current events and social attitudes that reshaped all of our world views. I could have seriously seen the new Battlestar Gallactica as a Macross show( with dffferent ships), for example.

6. I'm getting a little tired of the newer valks battroids losing many of the body shapes recognizable in fighter mode. Something that worked well in the VF1, VF11, and VF0.

7. As a cg artist, and as much as I love cg, you can't get the level of expressivity out of the battroid as you could with traditional 2d hand-drawn animation. I find that 2d makes the transformations seem more fun and you can exaggerate the cooler components of that mech as the director sees fit. ( like of the valk was animated in the Daicon IV opening) I sorely miss those days. and I'm only 29.

All in all, though, Mac Frontier was decent IMHO.

[mr.chogokin]

Maybe if I weren't so critical of Macross Frontier, I'd still see some entertainment value out of it - so I did and I still get bothered by how the characters were designed. Look at Alto for instance... he's practically a woman with a penis - why mess up the main character? His Bukaki (sp?) family background is not realistic at all. It's been studied that unpopular cultures today will die out in the future. Why can't they make him a pilot first of all who come from a family with performing arts background that goes way back?

[Nexx Stalker]

1. Alto is just way too effeminate to take seriously through the series and his character design doesn't change to evoke a maturation of his character (e.g. possibly cutting his hair short at some point) and the school thing could have been leveraged better to the advantage of the story. Possibly having a mood similar to the first Kimagure Orange Road movie, but with a space war and mechs.

? Alto suffered from the "I'm a clumsy boy when we get down to love" stereotype but as a charater he has an evolution (see how he decides to stay on Frontier for Sheryl) and I don't see why sporting feminine looks and long hair does make him less serious.

2. Brera was worse. I cringed every time I saw his "uniform"

Here I agree. Brera casual suit is just un-watchable.

5. Kawamori blew an opportunity ( with Frontier and with Zero) to make a Macross which was not only relevant as an anime but to imbue it with a contemporary allegory from current events and social attitudes that reshaped all of our world views. I could have seriously seen the new Battlestar Gallactica as a Macross show( with dffferent ships), for example.

The "message" of frontier is a bit too watered down, but Macross 0's is not. Just think of the AU attack on the Mayan isle or the meaning of exporting "culture" to the indigenous population.

7. As a cg artist, and as much as I love cg, you can't get the level of expressivity out of the battroid as you could with traditional 2d hand-drawn animation. I find that 2d makes the transformations seem more fun and you can exaggerate the cooler components of that mech as the director sees fit.

I'm with you. Just look at Macross Plus, original TV series, Frontier's Episode 25 Destroid attack or the best mecha part of Macross 0, the hand-drawn armored VF0S in action.

[Vic Mancini]

Overall the show was entertaining, but I felt there was no real climax. Everything was kind of perfunctory.

Things I personally thought should have been addressed:

1. Alto is just way too effeminate to take seriously through the series and his character design doesn't change to evoke a maturation of his character (e.g. possibly cutting his hair short at some point) and the school thing could have been leveraged better to the advantage of the story. Possibly having a mood similar to the first Kimagure Orange Road movie, but with a space war and mechs.

I agree.

Or starting the series with short hair which would be consistent with his rebellion from his heritage, and then gradually growing it longer as he inspires Ranka/Sheryl with advice from his Kabuki roots and becomes more accepting of himself. It didn't make much sense for Alto to be so sensitive/hostile about his past and to simultaneously maintain an image that represented it.

2. Brera was worse. I cringed every time I saw his "uniform"

Totally agree. I hated that guy.

5. Kawamori blew an opportunity ( with Frontier and with Zero) to make a Macross which was not only relevant as an anime but to imbue it with a contemporary allegory from current events and social attitudes that reshaped all of our world views. I could have seriously seen the new Battlestar Gallactica as a Macross show( with dffferent ships), for example.

I'm not sure I agree. I felt an allegory to the US campaign in the Middle East towards the end of Frontier.

NUNS = US Military

Vajra = Muslims

Grace and Leon = Manipulative US govt with ulterior motives for going to war with the Vajra.

And then there is the general tree-hugging message in Zero.

I think Kawamori injects his stories with contemporary messages, they just aren't particularly poignant.

7. As a cg artist, and as much as I love cg, you can't get the level of expressivity out of the battroid as you could with traditional 2d hand-drawn animation. I find that 2d makes the transformations seem more fun and you can exaggerate the cooler components of that mech as the director sees fit. ( like of the valk was animated in the Daicon IV opening) I sorely miss those days. and I'm only 29.

I disagree. Which is funny because I'm usually a traditional animation guy. But I love the CG being used for the Valks in Zero and Frontier. I thought the Battroids were particularly expressive, actually. The way their parts sort of bounced and jangled with jerky robotic inertia. The scene where Michael is doing target practice on stray asteroids while Klan is arguing with him came to mind immediately when I read your comment.

And I love seeing CG and cell animation in the same scenes. Like seeing Ozma's massive armored Battroid wrestling with a huge Vajra in the middle of a cell animated scene with cell animated characters in the foreground. I think it creates a nice visual separation between the mechanical and the biological.

[Mr March]

5. I could have seriously seen the new Battlestar Gallactica as a Macross show( with dffferent ships), for example.

As the kids say these days, this point is epic fail

[Vic Mancini]

Overall the show was entertaining, but I felt there was no real climax. Everything was kind of perfunctory.

Things I personally thought should have been addressed:

1. Alto is just way too effeminate to take seriously through the series and his character design doesn't change to evoke a maturation of his character (e.g. possibly cutting his hair short at some point) and the school thing could have been leveraged better to the advantage of the story. Possibly having a mood similar to the first Kimagure Orange Road movie, but with a space war and mechs.

I agree.

Or starting the series with short hair which would be consistent with his rebellion from his heritage, and then gradually growing it longer as he inspires Ranka/Sheryl with advice from his Kabuki roots and becomes more accepting of himself. It didn't make much sense for Alto to be so sensitive/hostile about his past and to simultaneously maintain an image that represented it.

2. Brera was worse. I cringed every time I saw his "uniform"

Totally agree. I hated that guy.

5. Kawamori blew an opportunity ( with Frontier and with Zero) to make a Macross which was not only relevant as an anime but to imbue it with a contemporary allegory from current events and social attitudes that reshaped all of our world views. I could have seriously seen the new Battlestar Gallactica as a Macross show( with dffferent ships), for example.

I'm not sure I agree. I felt an allegory to the US campaign in the Middle East towards the end of Frontier.

NUNS = US Military

Vajra = Muslims

Grace and Leon = Manipulative US govt with ulterior motives for going to war with the Vajra.

And then there is the general tree-hugging message in Zero.

I think Kawamori injects his stories with contemporary messages, they just aren't particularly poignant.

7. As a cg artist, and as much as I love cg, you can't get the level of expressivity out of the battroid as you could with traditional 2d hand-drawn animation. I find that 2d makes the transformations seem more fun and you can exaggerate the cooler components of that mech as the director sees fit. ( like of the valk was animated in the Daicon IV opening) I sorely miss those days. and I'm only 29.

I disagree. Which is funny because I'm usually a traditional animation guy. But I love the CG being used for the Valks in Zero and Frontier. I thought the Battroids were particularly expressive, actually. The way their parts sort of bounced and jangled with jerky robotic inertia. The scene where Michael is doing target practice on stray asteroids while Klan is arguing with him came to mind immediately when I read your comment.

And I love seeing CG and cell animation in the same scenes. Like seeing Ozma's massive armored Battroid wrestling with a huge Vajra in the middle of a cell animated scene with cell animated characters in the foreground. I think it creates a nice visual separation between the mechanical and the biological.

[Roy Focker]

I agree with the Hair issue.

Alpo doesn't want people mistaking him for a girl. So he maintains long hair that he ties up with a ribbon like a girl.

[mr.chogokin]

Maan, if they named him Alpo! Alpo Saotome > Alto Saotome. I'll take a young girl with alcohol & pot over a young girl with man's voice anyday.

Edited October 29, 2008 by mr.chogokin

[polidread]

OMG !

dont make me spew cocacola out of my nose like that!

[jenius]

I think you REALLY need to reach if you want to put a current events allegory into MacF. The "war is bad" message is there, the "people who want war are bad" message is there, the "love is good" message is there, but to assign characters to current day people or organizations is just projection.

[azrael]

I think you REALLY need to reach if you want to put a current events allegory into MacF. The "war is bad" message is there, the "people who want war are bad" message is there, the "love is good" message is there, but to assign characters to current day people or organizations is just projection.

Frontier never put much emphasis on those messages. IIRC, Kawamori's theme for this show was "misunderstanding/communication problems".

[Vic Mancini]

I think you REALLY need to reach if you want to put a current events allegory into MacF. The "war is bad" message is there, the "people who want war are bad" message is there, the "love is good" message is there, but to assign characters to current day people or organizations is just projection.

I don't think it's that much of a stretch. Come on...am I the only one who thought fold quartz was a symbol for oil? The contemporary perception of the US's motives in the mid east was the first thing that came to mind in episode 23 when Alto, Leon, and Bilrer were having a meeting in the presidential office.

Bilrer: It's finally been found. The location of the Vajra's home planet.

Alto: Why tell me, sir?

Bilrer: Because I expect big things from you. In the fight we have to conduct now, I want you to be able to do your job without any reservations.

Alto: I do not mind fighting. That is what I stayed for. However, there is one thing I would like to ask before that.

<Sinister music swell>

Leon: What is it?

Alto: Is the purpose of this fight to obtain fold quartz?

Bilrer: *Gasps, and admits that the Vajra collect fold quartz throughout the galaxy, suggesting that their home world is the Fort Knox of the valuable substance.*

Leon: *Continues to posture to Alto that the battle with the Vajra is not about quartz, but an honorable fight for survival because the Vajra are trying to wipe humanity out...(which is not 100% accurate.)*

Edited October 29, 2008 by Vic Mancini

[Final Vegeta]

Overall the show was entertaining, but I felt there was no real climax.

If you mean a climatic build-up, this was no Gurren Lagann. The climax though was very evident. The series was about not thinking with the head, so the climax was the point when

Alto destroyed the queen's head

.

1. Alto is just way too effeminate to take seriously through the series and his character design doesn't change to evoke a maturation of his character (e.g. possibly cutting his hair short at some point) and the school thing could have been leveraged better to the advantage of the story. Possibly having a mood similar to the first Kimagure Orange Road movie, but with a space war and mechs.

When I first saw Alto I actually thought he was manly, especially compared to other Real Robot protagonists. While in the series he is sometimes mistook as a girl, and he actually acted as one, I still think he was manly in his own way.

I think it would have been more realistic if he cut his hair, especially since Kawamori has stated that he used a private military provider exactly to allow Alto to keep his hair. How come that Alto kept his hair even when he became part of the UN-Spacy?

About the school antics, I am glad it was very limited. I appreciated better when they showed the damage to Frontier.

2. Brera was worse. I cringed every time I saw his "uniform"

I think it was done with female cosplayers in mind

5. Kawamori blew an opportunity ( with Frontier and with Zero) to make a Macross which was not only relevant as an anime but to imbue it with a contemporary allegory from current events and social attitudes that reshaped all of our world views. I could have seriously seen the new Battlestar Gallactica as a Macross show( with dffferent ships), for example.

What reshaped my world view is not the current events and social attitudes, it's seeing how they are not really different from the past ones

6. I'm getting a little tired of the newer valks battroids losing many of the body shapes recognizable in fighter mode. Something that worked well in the VF1, VF11, and VF0.

I enjoy different Valkyries

7. As a cg artist, and as much as I love cg, you can't get the level of expressivity out of the battroid as you could with traditional 2d hand-drawn animation. I find that 2d makes the transformations seem more fun and you can exaggerate the cooler components of that mech as the director sees fit. ( like of the valk was animated in the Daicon IV opening) I sorely miss those days. and I'm only 29.

I think CG has its own expressivity, although in nature it's different from the 2D one. The expressivity of CG for example is about lots and lots of small movements in a scene; you could do it even with 2D, but it was done and done. The goal is not to recreate exactly what you can do with 2D, but doing what it can be done better and (theorically) easier.

FV