Saotome Alto - War Hero?

[dreamweaver13]

Aside from coming up with the Minmay Attack, being captured by the Zentraedi and suggesting that Max and Milla make their wedding public (all of which changed the course of SW1), one single incident in Hikaru's life really stands out as the point where everything could have changed. When Wareralolicon were asking asylum inside the Macross, Hikaru was the swing vote. imagine if he had voted the other way, humanity might not have survived at all.

So you can say, equal to Minmay, Hikaru's actions really had an impact on the grand scheme of things in the Macross Universe..

What about Alto? was there any particular action of his that could steered the war against the Vajra to its end? in the grand scheme of things, what part did Alto play? and if there's any, was it anywhere near as substantial as Hikaru's contributions?

Your thoughts...

[Sumdumgai]

Alto is the one that managed to get through to Ranka when she was under the control of Grace and puppet-Brera. Without Alto wearing Sheryl's earring, no one would have realized Battle Galaxy was there until it was too late. Ranka would not have been able to snap out of the mind control. Without Ranka free of mind control Sheryl would have succumbed to the V-infection and died. There would have been no turning point in which the Vajra came to the aide of Frontier and turned on Grace. Grace would have been able to try to take over the galaxy.

Alto also pulled the trigger on the shot that "killed" Grace (I'm not convinced that that's truly the end for her).

In short, Alto's decision to stay behind to protect Frontier and Sheryl lead to him being one of the key players in saving mankind from annihilation/slavery.

[VFTF1]

Also, if Alto hadn't set his paper plane flying in the mall that day, Ranka wouldn't have seen it - wouldn't have been inspired to sing. That song in the mall launched her career. Her love for Alto inspired her song.

Which brings me to the flip side: poor Mikhael. In that particular instance, he thought it was his inspiring speech which brought Ranka to sing - but no - it was just Alto's plane...

Pete

[Gubaba]

So...can we agree that the most important stuff Alto did for "the cause" involved inspiring Sheryl and Ranka? 'Cause that's how it looks to me...

Hikaru also got captured by the Zentradi and got a good look at how they operate...Alto didn't even get that, Luca did. And even he just passed out. I mean, his JOB is to keep his eye on the enemy and yet, when he's INSIDE THE VAJRA SHIP, he sees nothing.

Stupid Luca.

Alto managed to survive the war, he was present during most of the desicive battles, and he managed to get off a few important shots here and there...but he was hardly the most important factor in any of those battles (except fr the ones where Ranka would've died if he hadn't been there), and his political involvement was minimal (consisting mainly of listening to Birla natter on).

[Killer Robot]

In short, Alto's decision to stay behind to protect Frontier and Sheryl lead to him being one of the key players in saving mankind from annihilation/slavery.

I'd agree with this, but clarify that the real branch decision happened not when Alto turned down that message to join the SMS rebellion: at that point, Ranka was seemingly turned on Frontier, and he had a fresh promise to Sheryl after learning her condition. Rather , I'd put it before the big attack and assassination, when Sheryl told him she'd decided to quit singing. He had reasons to take this at face value: he'd had a lot of problems reading Sheryl's motives in the past and he had left performing at his height too. Even knowing something was wrong he might have held back; instead, he pushed fiercely to remind her of her pride and her work, and how clearly she was meant to keep on inspiring with her song. Without that, she would have collapsed into despair, her own Vajra-related powers would have gone undiscovered, and even if Alto had chosen to stay with a dying Sheryl once he had learned the truth of her illness, the two never would have freed Ranka. So the real key was not so much staying with her so much as simply never letting her give up.

[taksraven]

Alto is the one that managed to get through to Ranka when she was under the control of Grace and puppet-Brera. Without Alto wearing Sheryl's earring, no one would have realized Battle Galaxy was there until it was too late. Ranka would not have been able to snap out of the mind control. Without Ranka free of mind control Sheryl would have succumbed to the V-infection and died. There would have been no turning point in which the Vajra came to the aide of Frontier and turned on Grace. Grace would have been able to try to take over the galaxy.

Alto also pulled the trigger on the shot that "killed" Grace (I'm not convinced that that's truly the end for her).

In short, Alto's decision to stay behind to protect Frontier and Sheryl lead to him being one of the key players in saving mankind from annihilation/slavery.

What he said.

Taksraven

[dreamweaver13]

I'll have to agree with gubaba's point of view on this one. most of the examples given are basically about helping either sheryl or ranka reach their full potential. But if that's all we're looking for, then we could as easily just say that the director of Birdman also played a crucial part. so did the original actress for Mao for getting hurt. so did bobby for giving ranka that peptalk on the beach. so did elmo for having the balls to face up to ozma (hey that's heroic enough all on its own). I'm not belittling Alto's contributions in this regard, but it's also very easy to get lost in questions of cause and effect until we lose track of the question: whether or not Alto can be considered a real war hero in the vein of Hikaru. after all, Hikaru also saved Minmay countless times (and slapped her silly in DYRL), inspired misa to persevere in light of their capture (and when she was all depressed in DYRL) and in that way also had an effect on SDFM. but i'm thinking of something more substantial and direct; some particular action that did not simply influence, inspire or aid in the actions of others, but something that our hero actually did that, on its own, REALLY made a difference in the war. hence, the "Hikaru's swing vote" example i gave earlier.

In this regard, i think the closest thing would be Alto discovering that Battle Galaxy was merely disguising itself, and relaying this information to Battle Frontier and the Quarter. of course, "killing" grace would also be somewhere there. maybe the rescue of Luca and the first recording of the VF27 would also be considered. i'm also thinking about Alto being placed in Bilrer and Leon's circle near the end, but if i recall correctly, he didn't really give a solid contribution or course of action in that discussion.

but IMHO, none of this comes close to Hikaru's noteworthy contributions to SW1, whether its giving the decisive vote on the asylum issue, or coming up wioth the Minmay Attack.

[Gubaba]

...so did the original actress for Mao for getting hurt eaten.

FIXED!

(Yeah, I know...she wasn't really eaten.)

[kanedaestes]

In Alto defense there is not much left by this time in Macross lore. Hikaru was a war hero because he was the first to do a lot of things in the first interstellar war between Man and Aliens. It is a lot easier to accomplish things when there is no precedence. By now bout everything has been done, and sure they are facing a new enemy but what was there for him to do?

[RedWolf]

Comparatively Alto is more maverick than Hikaru was.

But is easier to manipulate as his emotions rule him. As others said he goes with the flow of events and not very critical minded.

Hikaru on the otherhand began from a more a pacifistic point of view as a stunt pilot. With leadership skills and level headedness when he became a military pilot.

Hikaru knew ending the conflict does not mean extermination of the other side.

I can see Alto getting into conflict with the more by the book pilots like Gamlin.

Though a pilot singer like Basara going into the middle of battle would be annoying to Alto their philosophies would clash.

[Fade Rathnik]

I think that any of the occasions where he charged through heavy defenses to his target, be it a mark or a rescue, would qualify to make him a war hero. Even Ozma and Micheal considered his first charge to be suicide but he pulled the wayward specialist out of harms way, and came back with the more expensive(and data laden) of the two fighters.

But lets face it Alto was more or less a high school student in pilot curriculum, who was doing work study with SMS. Not really in so much the best position to be making command or political choices like Hikaru.

[d3v]

But lets face it Alto was more or less a high school student in pilot curriculum, who was doing work study with SMS. Not really in so much the best position to be making command or political choices like Hikaru.

In other words, it's more or less like a student taking a part time job, but in Alto's case, his job lets him get to shoot stuff and cause big explosions.

[Renato]

his political involvement was minimal (consisting mainly of listening to Birla natter on).

Oh yeah, forgot about that. What exactly was so special about Alto that Birler had to call him and have a chat? And what did they talk about, except his vague "dream"? I don't get that whole plot point at all, and it seemed to have no bearing on anything else anyway.

[Morpheus]

Alto is the one that managed to get through to Ranka when she was under the control of Grace and puppet-Brera. Without Alto wearing Sheryl's earring, no one would have realized Battle Galaxy was there until it was too late. Ranka would not have been able to snap out of the mind control. Without Ranka free of mind control Sheryl would have succumbed to the V-infection and died. There would have been no turning point in which the Vajra came to the aide of Frontier and turned on Grace. Grace would have been able to try to take over the galaxy.

Alto also pulled the trigger on the shot that "killed" Grace (I'm not convinced that that's truly the end for her).

In short, Alto's decision to stay behind to protect Frontier and Sheryl lead to him being one of the key players in saving mankind from annihilation/slavery.

You forgot one thing, it was Sheryl who asked Alto to save Ranka (he intended to kill her in the first place) and give him the fold quartz earring. If Sheryl hadn't done that, Frontier wouldn't win.

So, Sheryl is the real war hero.

[Anon]

Does Alto really have to be the war hero though? I find it rather refreshing that he's not the one that people rely on to turn the tide of the battle or whatever, he just did the best he could for those that he knows.

In other words, it's more or less like a student taking a part time job, but in Alto's case, his job lets him get to shoot stuff and cause big explosions.

Hey, we have those in real life too. Army Reserve ;p I had a million dollar humvie armed with anti tank missile that i had to sign for when I was a freshman in college...

[dreamweaver13]

You forgot one thing, it was Sheryl who asked Alto to save Ranka (he intended to kill her in the first place) and give him the fold quartz earring. If Sheryl hadn't done that, Frontier wouldn't win.

So, Sheryl is the real war hero.

hey, anyone who says Sheryl is the hero gets my vote.

on the serious side... wow, this is the first time i realized what you pointed out. so sheryl purposely ordered Alto to rescue Ranka, because she overheard him saying that he would kill her? wow. truly, sheryl was right in saying "you won't find another girl like me".

Edited October 21, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[Fortress_Maximus]

Well you know what they say... "behind every great man is a greater woman". I think Sheryl for all of her emotional outbursts was the most mature of the three Frontier protagonists. She was altruistic and completely supported Alto to do the right thing. If anything Sheryl was the true hero in the Frontier series because she took the pivotal role that Hikaru represented in the classic DYRL movie. She alone “inspired” Alto to save Ranka and her unselfishness saved humanity.

[dreamweaver13]

Well you know what they say... "behind every great man is a greater woman". I think Sheryl for all of her emotional outbursts was the most mature of the three Frontier protagonists. She was altruistic and completely supported Alto to do the right thing. If anything Sheryl was the true hero in the Frontier series because she took the pivotal role that Hikaru represented in the classic DYRL movie. She alone “inspired” Alto to save Ranka and her unselfishness saved humanity.

and to think she was originally intended to be a side character! this is the perfect example of a character writing itself. and boy did she write herself wonderfully!

[Gubaba]

and to think she was originally intended to be a side character! this is the perfect example of a character writing itself. and boy did she write herself wonderfully!

Yeah...Froniter with Sheryl as a supporting character wouldn't have been half as good.

But remember, Minmay was originally supposed to be a VERY minor delivery girl who occasionally trotted up to the bridge to deliver chow mein to the crew, and she turned out pretty well, too.

So...it's almost like the actual creation of Sheryl's character is another homage to SDFM...

Edited October 22, 2008 by Gubaba

[VFTF1]

Is it mere coincidence that Alto has the same last (?) name as the late, great creator of Getter Robo?

Pete

[Gubaba]

Is it mere coincidence that Alto has the same last (?) name as the late, great creator of Getter Robo?

Pete

Probably.

"Saotome," after all, means "young girl," and I shouldn't have to tell you what an "alto" is, in terms of singing. I'm pretty sure that's what his name signifies.

[mr.chogokin]

Young girl, man's voice? Ugh!

[Gubaba]

Young girl, man's voice? Ugh!

An Alto isn't a man's voice...it's a lower female voice.

[VFTF1]

"Saotome," after all, means "young girl," and I shouldn't have to tell you what an "alto" is, in terms of singing. I'm pretty sure that's what his name signifies.

Well, I'm glad I asked anyways, because I didn't know that Saotome meant "young girl." Nice to learn something new

Now I know how to say "poo," "young girl," "love," and "roger" in Japanese Another thousand years of this and I'll know the whole language

Pete