PetarB Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 I can't wait Capt'n! Your mechs were beautifully crafted, but I just wasn't hot on the subjects. This though... very keen for one! Quote
Valkyrie Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 I'm in for one And for what it's worth, I've been having good luck with carbon fiber rod inserts in the Lancer's antenna blades. I'll bet they'd work well in the rotors also. Quote
captain america Posted October 13, 2008 Author Posted October 13, 2008 September 13th update. I've spent most of the day drafting the blueprints from the Commanchero, so far so good. One of the things that troubled me about this gunship is its size: it seems to have an arsenal similar to that of an AH-64,but is literally almost as large as an Mi-24, and is actually wider at the fuselage than a Hind, due to the lateral placement of the engines. This was causing me some concern, as I couldn't for the life of me understand why the bird needed to be so large. By scrutinizing the line art, there didn't seem to be any sort of troop carrying capability; no room for a lateral door, sliding or otherwise, once again due to the engine placement. As a result, I came up with an interesting idea: why not give the Commanchero an internal weapons bay? So I did! I figured that this little option, while not necessarily canon, would justify the use of such a large helicopter,giving it substantially greater either air-to-air or air-to-ground attack capbilities. I will likely finish the dagrams by tomorrow, and will be committing to Ren-Shape by Wednesday. Stay tuned Quote
jardann Posted October 14, 2008 Posted October 14, 2008 Internal weapons sound great to me! This is going to be really sweet to watch you bring this together. Quote
captain america Posted October 14, 2008 Author Posted October 14, 2008 Somebody post some lineart please... http://www.new-un-spacy.com/sdfmacross/comanchero.htm Quote
cobywan Posted October 14, 2008 Posted October 14, 2008 I imagined it's roughly an Apache with Soviet design asthetics. Quote
electric indigo Posted October 14, 2008 Posted October 14, 2008 ...more like a Hind with Macross design aesthetics. Quote
captain america Posted October 14, 2008 Author Posted October 14, 2008 Definitely a Hind! Here are the comparative diagrams between the Commanchero and the Hind, just to show you what a whale this bird is! Quote
Grayson72 Posted October 14, 2008 Posted October 14, 2008 (edited) Captain, in the link you posted it says 1 x forward firing large internal missile launcher (mounted port), isn't that what you were looking for? Edited October 14, 2008 by Grayson72 Quote
captain america Posted October 14, 2008 Author Posted October 14, 2008 I interpreted that to mean that the port-side (helicopter's left) fairing contains a missile firing mechanism, as evidenced in the below image by the black, circular muzzle-looking thing. Nothing new there. What I added to the design was a centrally-mounted ventral weapons bay, similar to what you'd have on an F-111: it would be just deep enough to hold two drop-launch missiles or iron bombs. comanchero.bmp Quote
Phyrox Posted October 14, 2008 Posted October 14, 2008 I interpreted that to mean that the port-side (helicopter's left) fairing contains a missile firing mechanism, as evidenced in the below image by the black, circular muzzle-looking thing. Nothing new there. What I added to the design was a centrally-mounted ventral weapons bay, similar to what you'd have on an F-111: it would be just deep enough to hold two drop-launch missiles or iron bombs. not to pooh-pooh your cool idea...but I just assume the fuselage is where they'd keep the missiles for the port launcher. That launching sponson-thing isn't very big, so I imagine it is supplied with missile ammo from the actual body...thus eliminating the "what do to with all that space" problem. Quote
MechTech Posted October 14, 2008 Posted October 14, 2008 It IS a BIG helo for what it is supposed to do. I've looked at doing one in 1/200. Four oversized engines for what? You can only go so fast in a rotory wing aircraft before the blades stall; that's why there's the v-22 Osprey tilt rotor. Oh well, it's just an animated idea - right!? Quote
Grayson72 Posted October 14, 2008 Posted October 14, 2008 not to pooh-pooh your cool idea...but I just assume the fuselage is where they'd keep the missiles for the port launcher. That launching sponson-thing isn't very big, so I imagine it is supplied with missile ammo from the actual body...thus eliminating the "what do to with all that space" problem. That's where I was heading, but maybe there's a loading bay underneath for the missile launcher, that might be cool. Quote
jorawar_b Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 Add me for one Capt, I will pay you with the money order as before.. Quote
captain america Posted October 15, 2008 Author Posted October 15, 2008 not to pooh-pooh your cool idea...but I just assume the fuselage is where they'd keep the missiles for the port launcher. That launching sponson-thing isn't very big, so I imagine it is supplied with missile ammo from the actual body...thus eliminating the "what do to with all that space" problem. Yes, that's totally feasible and logical. As Grayson72 mentioned also, they would still need a means by which to get the missiles into the helicopter, hence the need for the lower weapons bay. At the very least, there could be a type of automatic breach-loading system allowing missles to be transfered/fired out the port-side pod for air-to-air missiles, but alternately, that weapons bay could also be configured to carry air-to-ground ordinance, depending on the specific mission. Either way, I feel that the Commanchero gains from that weapons bay. MechTech: yup, I agree, the design doesn't really make sense, but oh well, I didn't design it, I just have to make it believeable Quote
anime52k8 Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 It IS a BIG helo for what it is supposed to do. I've looked at doing one in 1/200. Four oversized engines for what? You can only go so fast in a rotory wing aircraft before the blades stall; that's why there's the v-22 Osprey tilt rotor. Oh well, it's just an animated idea - right!? I have no knowledge about helicopter design but here's a theory. the commanchero is huge so it can carry more ordinance. so when it's fully loaded it's heavier than a fully loaded hind. and from what I've read the hind is so heavy as it is that it can't take off vertically fully loaded, it needs to taxi first. maybe the 4 engines are to provide extra power to the rotor so it gets better lift. again, just a theory form someone who knows nothing about helicopters. Quote
TSP Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 Wouldn't the mi-28 Havoc deliver a better base model ? Quote
Fly4victory Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 Cockpit layout on the Havoc is all wrong for the Commanchero which is more Hind(ish). The wings are also Hind(ish). Best parts of the Havoc for the Commanchero would be the engines and part of the tailboom. Quote
Phyrox Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 mi-28 has too many angles to be used for anything with this. Even the mi-24 could probably only lend a few mechanical bits like a modified rotor head assembly and cockpit details. Quote
captain america Posted October 15, 2008 Author Posted October 15, 2008 mi-28 has too many angles to be used for anything with this. Even the mi-24 could probably only lend a few mechanical bits like a modified rotor head assembly and cockpit details. Sadly, not even that: I picked-up an Italeri Hind kit yesterday, just to see if there might be some parts I could borrow, but it's essentially useless junk. Oh well, more scratchbuilding for me Quote
HWR MKII Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 just use real hinds and other similar helicopters for inspiration. base your details on similar parts taken from real pictures online. Quote
ce25254 Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 How about using the space as storage for a gazillion micro-missiles? Itano Circus attack! Quote
Grayson72 Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 In the comparison photos you posted captain, although it's hard to tell but it looks like the main body of the Com. is a bit skinny and the canopies may be a bit too bubbly. Quote
captain america Posted October 15, 2008 Author Posted October 15, 2008 In the comparison photos you posted captain, although it's hard to tell but it looks like the main body of the Com. is a bit skinny and the canopies may be a bit too bubbly. With regards to being too skinny, I would have to say no, as my own plots were made directly off of the scaled lineart of the frontal view, and I even added an extra mm in thickness just to be safe. The canopies on the other hand are a tad bubblier (as seen in profile) than what the lineart depicts; I told myself that it would be safer to start off with something that has more volume, and depending on how they start to look when I flesh them out, I still have the option of flattening them a bit; always easier to remove than to add. At any rate, once I start posting progress pics, you'll be able to see things more clearly. As with almost everything else in the Macross lineart, the 3/4 front and 3/4 rear views of the Commanchero contradict themselves on certain shapes/proportions, so creative interpretation is a necessity. Quote
Grayson72 Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 (edited) Yup totally understand what your saying, I've got the line art books and in the front view the sides of the main body look straight up and down. Then if you look at the front 3/4 view it looks like the sides start to curve away just aft of the front cockpit giving it that mean beefy kick ass look. So if you have to interpret it one way or the other I'd go with the mean beefy interpretation LOL I'm sure you're sculpt with be beautiful however it comes out. Here's a pic of what I'm talking about with the sides curving away as opposed to straight up and down. Edited October 16, 2008 by Grayson72 Quote
ahiachris Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 As with almost everything else in the Macross lineart, the 3/4 front and 3/4 rear views of the Commanchero contradict themselves on certain shapes/proportions, so creative interpretation is a necessity. I agree with what Captain said. There is always contradiction when comparing schematic views and linearts in the modelling world. It is just like sculpting a F-16 using photographs and a F-16 using schematic diagrams, there will be differences in the outcome. There will always have some distortions when using only photographs as references. And with difference of how our eyes and the camera capture the real image, there is also differences when we are looking at the real thing and comparing it with the photos. Quote
captain america Posted October 16, 2008 Author Posted October 16, 2008 Yup totally understand what your saying, I've got the line art books and in the front view the sides of the main body look straight up and down. Then if you look at the front 3/4 view it looks like the sides start to curve away just aft of the front cockpit giving it that mean beefy kick ass look. So if you have to interpret it one way or the other I'd go with the mean beefy interpretation LOL I'm sure you're sculpt with be beautiful however it comes out. Here's a pic of what I'm talking about with the sides curving away as opposed to straight up and down. Yup, I know exactly what you mean. It looks like the sidewall flares out toward the bottom in the 3/4 view because of the panel line, but the font view the sides look flat. The natural conclusion: the panel is not perfectly vertical, but oblique. See my previously posted diagrams Quote
electric indigo Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 The area where the hull and the intakes meet also indicates that the sides of the hull are straight vertical. Still, the appeal of the chopper for me always was the trapezoidal cross-section of the hull. Quote
Ranger565 Posted October 17, 2008 Posted October 17, 2008 John, do you plan on adding the Missile pods under the stabilizer wings? Carl Quote
captain america Posted October 17, 2008 Author Posted October 17, 2008 John, do you plan on adding the Missile pods under the stabilizer wings? Carl Absolutely. I'm also trying to figure out what can (realistically) be crammed into the ventral weapons bay... Anyone got the dimensions for 500lb iron bombs? Quote
Phyrox Posted October 17, 2008 Posted October 17, 2008 US mk 82: Length 2.21 m / 66.15 in. Diameter 10.75 in. Quote
MechTech Posted October 17, 2008 Posted October 17, 2008 Yeah baby! You can never have enough ordnance (unless your aircraft can't get off the ground)! I'm still trying to figure out why they put four massive engines on this design. Maybe "Tim the Toolman Taylor" was his inspiration! - MT Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.