In Defense of Macross II

[sketchley]

(...)

Ignoring others (see debate in other thread):

Chronicle Figures:

Fulbtzs-Berrentzs: 890 Km tall, 510 Km wide

Factory Satellite: 500 Km long

The scales seem off for the Factory Satellite and Gorg-Bodolza fortress (at 500 Km high).

The width of the Fulbtzs-berrentzs, Factory Satellite and Laplamiz fortress should be approximately the same, and all slightly less than Gorg-Bodolza's Fortress.

[Zinjo]

WOW! Lazarus come forth!!!

The most the Mardook could be is some sort of offshoot of the SA who did indeed have Zentradi in their forces. The idea of mind control turned out to be valid with respect to the SA (M7).

How the Mardook microns came to enslave the Zentradi is largely unknown (even in their own universe). Much of the Mardook history is largely unknown. We know they believed in a legendary ship of the Alus, which would be responsible for "saving" their people and the idea that the legend was mis-interpreted was an aspect I liked. We also know they used song to control their Zentradi forces a bit of an about face from Kawamori's use of song to break mind control.

The fact that they had ships that appeared to be "modified" is not really that far fetched.

Macross II:

Macross 7:

Both of these have micron scaled bridges.

The Mac II producers, having worked on SDFM, must have read Kawamori's history of the universe and used some of it in their show, although adapted.

As I've said before. Mac II could be shoe horned into the Nue continuity, but several changes to the show must be made to harmonize with the existing Macross universe. The era the show takes place in, why the valks are so different from established canon valks, why no evidence of the Galaxy Network, the SDF Macross Class ship could not be called the "Macross", etc...

[Keith]

I always got the impression that the Marduk were another tampered with race, that came across the Zentradi, and like Earth defeated them with "Culture," but intead of cohabitating, inslaved them & stole their technology. The Aluse being their "Macross," also explaining their odd ties to religion.

[Killer Robot]

I always got the impression that the Marduk were another tampered with race, that came across the Zentradi, and like Earth defeated them with "Culture," but intead of cohabitating, inslaved them & stole their technology. The Aluse being their "Macross," also explaining their odd ties to religion.

That's much the impression I got too. Also, in DYRL the "culture" which defeated the Zentradi was not so much humanity's idea of life outside of combat(with music just as a symbol of it) but rather a dug-up Protoculture song just used to jog their genetic memories. In a DYRL sequel it wouldn't be as farfetched for a warrior race that knew no culture but battle music to beat a Zentradi fleet in much the same way humanity did.

[HannouHeiki]

The SDF-1 "upgrade" was very disappointing, along with that iconic ship's destruction. Totally unecessary.

As a fan of ships in general (real or fictional), and the SDF-1 being one of my "true loves" of ships, this part totally ruined any suspension of disbelief I had left. The emitters from the legs and turning the ARMDs into cannons was a totally useless addition.

And then blowing it up, the bridge detaching with minimal character reaction, and then singing right afterwards stopping all the fighting was pure cheese....I was so dissapointed.

Macross 7 worked better for me; the show had a lighthearted tone and any cheese seemed to fit in.

[sidearmsalpha]

While it's not my favorite Macross anime, I've always liked Macross II.

Gorgeous mecha designs, some good BGM and songs, Mikimoto chracter designs and good fight scenes. What's not to like?

Graham

Yes, all the mecha designs are very awesome! And that's what's so unfair about the probability that we'll never get to see alot of that mecha as toys or even models. I really wish Bandai would reconsider there negative stance about the series. I suppose if they DO make a 1/100 parts-forming VF-2SS toy, it could generate interest in producing more Mac II toys, but those hopes could be dashed if they don't make a good VF-2SS toy.

[edwin3060]

Yes, all the mecha designs are very awesome! And that's what's so unfair about the probability that we'll never get to see alot of that mecha as toys or even models. I really wish Bandai would reconsider there negative stance about the series. I suppose if they DO make a 1/100 parts-forming VF-2SS toy, it could generate interest in producing more Mac II toys, but those hopes could be dashed if they don't make a good VF-2SS toy.

Hopefully the VF100s line will do well then, although current indications are not good.

[Gubaba]

Yes, all the mecha designs are very awesome! And that's what's so unfair about the probability that we'll never get to see alot of that mecha as toys or even models. I really wish Bandai would reconsider there negative stance about the series. I suppose if they DO make a 1/100 parts-forming VF-2SS toy, it could generate interest in producing more Mac II toys, but those hopes could be dashed if they don't make a good VF-2SS toy.

I don't think it's Bandai's negative stance on the series that's hurting its toy chances, I think it's the general public's lack of interest in the series that is.

[azrael]

I don't think it's Bandai's negative stance on the series that's hurting its toy chances, I think it's the general public's lack of interest in the series that is.

Bandai is just like any other business out there to make money. Bandai would exploit fan-service of your grandmother, IF anybody would buy it...

[Zinjo]

Yes, all the mecha designs are very awesome! And that's what's so unfair about the probability that we'll never get to see alot of that mecha as toys or even models. I really wish Bandai would reconsider there negative stance about the series. I suppose if they DO make a 1/100 parts-forming VF-2SS toy, it could generate interest in producing more Mac II toys, but those hopes could be dashed if they don't make a good VF-2SS toy.

Bandai doesn't have a negative stance on the series... They sponsored it!

As Az said, they just don't see enough market interest in it, so they don't invest in more products for that show. So far all the Macross shows have gone through the remaster process, except MII. The most likely reason is that the potential profit just doesn't justify the cost...

[Duke Togo]

I always got the impression that the Marduk were another tampered with race, that came across the Zentradi, and like Earth defeated them with "Culture," but intead of cohabitating, inslaved them & stole their technology. The Aluse being their "Macross," also explaining their odd ties to religion.

What he said.

[Seto Kaiba]

I always got the impression that the Marduk were another tampered with race, that came across the Zentradi, and like Earth defeated them with "Culture," but intead of cohabitating, inslaved them & stole their technology. The Aluse being their "Macross," also explaining their odd ties to religion.

It's a nice theory, but it doesn't explain why Mardook technology is more advanced than that of the Zentradi (as explicitly stated by Kenichi Yatagai). About the only way I can see it happening is if the Mardook have been in control of a Zentradi faction for thousands or tens of thousands of years. Humanity's had direct access to Zentradi overtechnology and even a couple factory satellites for decades, and they still haven't gotten anywhere near that level of reliability.

I've forgotten the exact date Misa cites, but according to her translation of the colony computer in DYRL, the Protoculture were still very much out and about in the galaxy only twenty thousand (or thereabouts, I've forgotten the exact number) years ago. It's equally possible that the Mardook are, like the Atlita colonists, survivors from both sides of the war who fled when the Zentradi and Meltrandi ran out of control. It accounts for a lot... their superior technology, their control over the Zentradi, males and females coexisting, their culture, their belief in their own superiority, etc. etc. etc.

Of course, nothing's provable either way, because the only person involved in Macross II's creation who ever really talked about the origins of the Mardook was Kenichi Yatagai, who stops short of calling the Mardook the survivors of the Protoculture. I haven't gotten down to translating the Mardook article in Macross Chronicle yet, but I doubt it'll offer any new insights.

One quick note to Zinjo... there is no Supervision Army in the DYRL-II continuity. They were replaced by the Meltrandi as the rival power opposing the Zentradi.

This has been Seto, your friendly neighborhood Macross II expert... signing off and heading for the pub.

Edited March 31, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[RedWolf]

One quick note to Zinjo... there is no Supervision Army in the DYRL-II continuity. They were replaced by the Meltrandi as the rival power opposing the Zentradi.

Which is interesting as SK/Studio Nue canon changed the visuals including the Meltrandi ships and dresses via Fleet of the Strongest Women and VF-X2.

DYRL is a universe where the Protodevlin did not exist

It deliciously makes me speculate that the Protoculture in SDF:M TV timeline were two groups using males Zentrans on one side female Meltrans on the other.

As Zentradi ships were more organic it is likely these are the Stellar Republic forces as their ships and mecha goes in line with being inspired by the Vajra.

Meltrandi ships were more technological in appearance so it is likely to assume these are Anti-Stellar Republic forces.

[Dax415]

For the most part, I've always liked macross II .... honestly don't understand the fascination with Macross Zero's or Macross 7's storyline. In Macross Zero I could believe it until the weird alien technology/religion concept was tied in WTF!!! in macross 7 Basara singing every other frame and mechs with faces...i was left half expecting ultra man (dont know the authentic name for him) to show up as a new style destroid preaching peace by sharing girlscout cookies with the protodevlin to solve the problem.

In mac II it looks like the survivors made use of whatever materials were left behind for both defense, rebuilding civilization, and colonization. It reminded me of how the United States configured itself after WWI and leading up to the pending moments of the Bombing on Pearl Harbor. A isolationist mentality, outdated military equipment, propaganda to lull the public into a false state of the military being prepared to handle anything. It was also common back then to parade your navy fleet as a show of power and military preparedness. In this case it seems macross II had several fleets on constant patrol in the Mac II solar system .... sort of how the pacific fleet was crowded around pearl harbor. I was always under the impression the macII story line mimicked these events rather than just a pure rehash of DYRL . .... just my 2 cents.

[kyatsu]

i really like macross II from episode 1 to 4. episode 1 and 2 got good drawing, but not that great. then art work or drawing really got better between episode 3 and 4 and you would think it would get better after, but i think either they ran out of money or they used the newbies to finish episode 5 and 6. the drawing quality really got worst and worst except toward the end when ishtar is singing on the bridge. over all, macross II had a promise to be a good sequel. i didnt know at first that it was a six episodes OVA series. i thought it would be at least 30 episodes TV series and would be as good as the original macross.

[Zinjo]

One quick note to Zinjo... there is no Supervision Army in the DYRL-II continuity. They were replaced by the Meltrandi as the rival power opposing the Zentradi.

Ah yes, thanks for the reminder.

[Zinjo]

Which is interesting as SK/Studio Nue canon changed the visuals including the Meltrandi ships and dresses via Fleet of the Strongest Women and VF-X2.

DYRL is a universe where the Protodevlin did not exist

After DYRL and Kawamori indicating that he preferred the movie designs over the TV ones, all Nue Macross series' maintained that aesthetic. I suspect the Tatsunoko legal issues also prompted BigWest to avoid any references to the original series until it was finally resolved in 2002. Then it seems that what was done was done after so many years.

[MilSpex]

Certainly MacII isn't 'canon', but I'm sure we've all read enough historical fiction that isn't quite canonical with our own world as well.

In my own personal canon its more canon than Mac 7, plus, zero or Frontier which I don`t recognize as official.

[Paco]

VF-XX, Zentran Variable Fighter. One of most cool design for me.

[pengbuzz]

On 10/24/2021 at 8:12 AM, Paco said:

VF-XX, Zentran Variable Fighter. One of most cool design for me.

I also like the Macross Cannons from that one. Absolutely dwarfs the other battle fortresses, and 4-6 of them would give a Zentraedi branch fleet much to think about!

Edited October 27, 2021 by pengbuzz

[Einherjar]

The Most Dangerous person in the anime worked on Macross II.

[pengbuzz]

3 hours ago, Einherjar said:

The Most Dangerous person in the anime worked on Macross II.

Isamu?

[Einherjar]

41 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Isamu?

I meant the Most Dangerous person in the anime industry worked on Macross II and this.

http://friendsfromtheinternet.com/2007/07/21/show-131-if-you-kill-their-boss-they-will-have-sex-with-you/

Edited October 30, 2021 by Einherjar