In Defense of Macross II

[yellowlightman]

http://www.colonydrop.com/index.php/2008/1...cross-ii?blog=1

Somebody told me it was the "best defense of Macross II" that they've read, although admittedly it was the only defense of Macross II they've read. I think I did alright job hitting on some of the better aspects of the series, although admittedly it is painfully average.

Thoughts?

[Graham]

While it's not my favorite Macross anime, I've always liked Macross II.

Gorgeous mecha designs, some good BGM and songs, Mikimoto chracter designs and good fight scenes. What's not to like?

Graham

[eugimon]

It was a pretty good read but I can't agree at all with the last parting shot:

it’s still better than Macross Zero.

The music may be better in MII but not much else, imo.

[Anon]

http://www.colonydrop.com/index.php/2008/1...cross-ii?blog=1

Somebody told me it was the "best defense of Macross II" that they've read, although admittedly it was the only defense of Macross II they've read. I think I did alright job hitting on some of the better aspects of the series, although admittedly it is painfully average.

Thoughts?

Aside from the Marduk super-robot-esque mecha, I actually rather enjoyed it. The destroids and macross cannon design from it was also highly enjoyable.

[taksraven]

It was a pretty good read but I can't agree at all with the last parting shot:

"it’s still better than Macross Zero."

The music may be better in MII but not much else, imo.

I have to agree. I quite liked Macross Zero. Despite its faults as far as I was concerned it was no worse than a lot of other anime. The music, though inconsistent in style, was good. The characterisation was as good as possible considering the limited time in it to build them up and there was plenty of mecha porn. The main fault was the pacing and the broad story they were trying to tell in a brief OAV.

Sorry to bring this up in a Mac II thread, but WHY do people hate Macross Zero so much. The main factor I can pick is that it was quite possibly one of the darkest stories in Macross.

Anybody else want to try to explain it?

Taksraven

[wolfx]

I have to agree. I quite liked Macross Zero. Despite its faults as far as I was concerned it was no worse than a lot of other anime. The music, though inconsistent in style, was good. The characterisation was as good as possible considering the limited time in it to build them up and there was plenty of mecha porn. The main fault was the pacing and the broad story they were trying to tell in a brief OAV.

Sorry to bring this up in a Mac II thread, but WHY do people hate Macross Zero so much. The main factor I can pick is that it was quite possibly one of the darkest stories in Macross.

Anybody else want to try to explain it?

Taksraven

Cuz the ending was too open ended and unexplained?

Cuz it had flying rocks? (alot of ppl seemed to have a problem with that....)

[Anon]

I have to agree. I quite liked Macross Zero. Despite its faults as far as I was concerned it was no worse than a lot of other anime. The music, though inconsistent in style, was good. The characterisation was as good as possible considering the limited time in it to build them up and there was plenty of mecha porn. The main fault was the pacing and the broad story they were trying to tell in a brief OAV.

Sorry to bring this up in a Mac II thread, but WHY do people hate Macross Zero so much. The main factor I can pick is that it was quite possibly one of the darkest stories in Macross.

Anybody else want to try to explain it?

Taksraven

It didn't feel like Macross to me, that's why I hated it. For me, Macross has always been space exploration, different way of life, giant transforming space ships (you know, the title?), and to some degree, giant females that can fly circles around males.

Macross Zero had zero of what I mentioned above. Yeah, it's got Valks and Protoculture back stories, but that's just enough reminder that its named Macross without having what I loved about the series.

[eugimon]

Cuz the ending was too open ended and unexplained?

Cuz it had flying rocks? (alot of ppl seemed to have a problem with that....)

and oddly, flying rocks still better than MII.

[taksraven]

It didn't feel like Macross to me, that's why I hated it. For me, Macross has always been space exploration, different way of life, giant transforming space ships (you know, the title?), and to some degree, giant females that can fly circles around males.

Macross Zero had zero of what I mentioned above. Yeah, it's got Valks and Protoculture back stories, but that's just enough reminder that its named Macross without having what I loved about the series.

Macross Plus was missing a lot of these elements as well, but people don't seem to be as critical of it.

Don't forget, Macross Zero also let us spend more time with Roy Fokker, and I think that we all wanted to do that.

Taksraven

[Anon]

Macross Plus was missing a lot of these elements as well, but people don't seem to be as critical of it.

Don't forget, Macross Zero also let us spend more time with Roy Fokker, and I think that we all wanted to do that.

Taksraven

Well, I wasn't too overly fond of Macross Plus either.

As for Roy Fokker... I dunno, it felt like its just milking it.

[MjrMisaHayase]

Macross II was okay, but it lacks Kawamori's touch that made SDF:M, M+, M7, M0, and even Macross Frontier popular.

[RedWolf]

It felt too much like Macross DYRL and ep 27 of Macross.

A bit of a rehash except for destroying the Macross.

At least the climax's of the Macross shows under SK showed variety.

Edited October 6, 2008 by RedWolf

[AcroRay]

I can only speak with regard to the mini-series, as I haven't seen the movie version, but I really enjoyed Macross II. Some really excellent mecha & character designs, decent characters & a tight story well in keeping with Macross' overall themes. It makes for a nice little Macross festival if you screen it all in one day.

I honestly don't understand the fan community's supposed rejection of it, and I don't have any problem considering it an independent fiction 'within' the Macross universe, much as DYRL is regarded as more of a docu-drama. Certainly MacII isn't 'canon', but I'm sure we've all read enough historical fiction that isn't quite canonical with our own world as well.

Macross II isn't given enough due credit, I think.

[And I certainly enjoyed it more than what I've seen of Macross 7.]

Edited October 6, 2008 by AcroRay

[bandit29]

Macross II was great back in the day..it was the first title that was actually sold as a Macross property in the US..Macross Plus was soon after.

Macross II feels like DYRL?-lite. Story is kind of the same, characters are less interesting, same goes for the VFs.

The character designs themselves are good and so is the music. Mech action is solid. Better than Macross Zero?..even though Zero had its faults...um no..better than Plus?...please..I'd put Macross II over most of Macross 7.

Edited October 6, 2008 by dejr8bud

[Macross_Fanboy]

Macross Zero being hated on or not liked for not having all of the stuff most people come to identify Macross with is funny considering some people are criticizing II and now Frontier for having some unoriginal concepts and a few saying Frontier was not refreshing. It kinda says to me that us as Macross fans don't quite know what we want. Macros Zero was rather dark and has some real world issues in which overpopulating and development is destroying nature. I prefer floating rocks to the SDF-1 which is just a hunk of junk in II being destroyed with the bridge magically surviving. Anybody else annoyed by the way they regarded the Macross in II? I know I was.

Edited October 6, 2008 by Macross_Fanboy

[terry the lone wolf]

I like Macross 2! Nuff said!

[Macross_Fanboy]

Ya'know, lately a lot of Macross II threads have popped up, they should all be rolled into one monster thread where you can hate or adore or debate the entire damn thing.

[Mr March]

I always said there was never anything particularly wrong with Macross II, it simply wasn't anything exceptional either. Mediocre would describe it perfectly. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of the show, but you could do worse than Macross II (Macross 7 anyone?)

[hobbes221]

You're walking down a hall and at the end are two doors, one marked 'Macross II' and the other 'Macross 7' where do you go, and no, back down the hall is not a choice!

I'm okay with Macross II, will let you about 7 when I finish it ( on episode 25 as of now, and not feeling it yet)

[RichterX]

so far I haven't watch Macross II cause it is not canon

[Mr March]

You're walking down a hall and at the end are two doors, one marked 'Macross II' and the other 'Macross 7' where do you go, and no, back down the hall is not a choice!

I'm okay with Macross II, will let you about 7 when I finish it ( on episode 25 as of now, and not feeling it yet)

I jump out the window

Actually, as odd as it may sound to some, I'd choose Macross 7 in that scenario. I'd rather watch a creative failure than endure an exercise in mediocrity. Memorable is always preferable to forgettable, even if it's horribly memorable. Even Ed Wood had a movie made about him

[Gubaba]

I can only speak with regard to the mini-series, as I haven't seen the movie version, but I really enjoyed Macross II.

Technically, there is no movie version. The "movie" was just Manga Entertainment's way of putting all six episodes on one tape (or DVD). There's no difference between the two, except that the movie is lacking the next episode previews.

And I think there's a lot that can be said in defense of Macross II. It's certainly not a train wreck, it's not unwatchable, and it doesn't urinate all over everything that made the first one great. It's a decent sequel to an astonishingly wonderful original.

[Dangard Ace]

Macross II with japanese audio and english subs is rather enjoyable.

Macross II with English dub I can live without.

You're walking down a hall and at the end are two doors, one marked 'Macross II' and the other 'Macross 7' where do you go, and no, back down the hall is not a choice!

I'm okay with Macross II, will let you about 7 when I finish it ( on episode 25 as of now, and not feeling it yet)

Into the shop room for some boards, nails and soundproofing material, wall up the door to Macross 7 room and go watch Macross II.

[anime52k8]

You're walking down a hall and at the end are two doors, one marked 'Macross II' and the other 'Macross 7' where do you go, and no, back down the hall is not a choice!

I'm okay with Macross II, will let you about 7 when I finish it ( on episode 25 as of now, and not feeling it yet)

macII for no other reason than it's less content to suffer through.

in all seriousness though I thought macII was good; not great but good. I've always felt the story and character designs were great and for the first half at least the animation quality was quite good. admittedly I was never able to justify how MacII could fit into the rest of the macross world, but that never really bothered me. I just looked at it as it's own thing and accepted it for what it was.

Now what really drags it down for me is the pour quality in the last episode, coupled with the IMO poor mecha design. the whole last episode looks and feels rushed, the animation quality takes a nosedive and the story starts going by way to fast. II would really have benefited from a better budget at the end and one more episode.

as for the mecha design, the only mech that actually apealled to me was the VF-2SS in batroid mode. the enemy mecha felt lumpy and uninspired, and the rest of the spacy mechs flat out look like ass. (I absolutely hate the metal siren, and all the fighter modes look like afterthoughts)

as for Mac7 I never really got into it; not to say the story was bad, just not what I'm into. I can accept the whole spirita thing, but having a J-pop band saving the day in ridicules clown mechs piloted using Rock band controllers is a bit to much for me. on top of that, the quality of the mecha combat was lacking (and that's one of the biggest draws for me) and I think Mac7 is a low point in SK's design carrier.

now with Mac0, I liked it better than II mostly because the production quality and the mecha design was better. however I still don't rate Mac0 very high just because of the ending. It was rushed, confusing, and even after seeing Frontier It still makes no seance.

[Sergorn]

It felt too much like Macross DYRL and ep 27 of Macross.

A bit of a rehash except for destroying the Macross.

At least the climax's of the Macross shows under SK showed variety.

Yeah that's one of the main problem with Macross II IMO.. it really felt like "more of the same". Not bad really but... well, like it of not Kawamori has always pushed Macross into different directions every time... that's part of the the charm IMO.

Macross II though could definitly have used more episode and better writting. Some part are just laughable (The "love realisation" between Sylvie and Hibiki... god that's just ridiculous ). It has some great concepts and thematics (the Marduk, military censorship so on).... but none of them really well developped.

I guess if I'd have to sum up Macross II it would be : great plot, poor execution.

(And technically it was really mediocre for a 92 OAV and very uneven as well...Episode 5 is the only one that stands out)

-Sergorn

[Morpheus]

- Macross Cannon

- Metal Siren

- Silvie Geena

It still pretty solid despite being non-canon

[RedWolf]

As far as refits go this one is insane.

Its like asking your entire ship to blow up.

No wonder its bridge is detacheble.

The Macross Cannon is cool is brutish sort of way.

Having 4 Nupetiet-Vergnitzs sized Macross cannons.

Yup Macross II have overkill ships if they weren't only breakable in strain.

[valhary]

for me the vf 2ss has the best mecha design!!!

[Sumdumgai]

A series about a douchebag reporter versus a series about a hippy obsessed with singing. I'd rather watch Macross 7 with its up and downs and cringe worthy moments, than Macross II where I keep hoping Hibiki will die when I know he won't.

The only good things about Macross II were Ishtar (before the haircut) and the music, particularly the opening song.

[Morpheus]

A series about a douchebag reporter versus a series about a hippy obsessed with singing. I'd rather watch Macross 7 with its up and downs and cringe worthy moments, than Macross II where I keep hoping Hibiki will die when I know he won't.

The only good things about Macross II were Ishtar (before the haircut) and the music, particularly the opening song.

There are other hot women as well, like Wendy Ryder. Also this is the only Macross where the main character is not a valkyrie pilot (altought he did pilot a civilian SNN valk in the beginning).

[adrianop]

Reporter vs Dude who sings to a mountain. Id go MII if it werent for Hibiki, cant stand him.

[ntsan]

I really like the brute design of ships in Mac II, that what I call "firepower"!

[anime52k8]

A series about a douchebag reporter versus a series about a hippy obsessed with singing. I'd rather watch Macross 7 with its up and downs and cringe worthy moments, than Macross II where I keep hoping Hibiki will die when I know he won't.

The only good things about Macross II were Ishtar (before the haircut) and the music, particularly the opening song.

funny, I feel the same way but come to an oposite conclusion.

I can put up with a douchebag character, but I can't sit though 40-something episodes of a hippy with a hard-on for his guitar flying a red mecha.

but back to MacII, I always felt the Macross and Macross cannons were the only good ship designs in the show. everything else was mediocre at best, but I always loved the Mac Cannon, it was pointless and yet beautiful at the same time.

and as for the SDF-1, they turned the whole damn thing into 1 big gun. if SK ever actually worked something from macII into official cannon, I want it to be that.

[sharky]

for me the vf 2ss has the best mecha design!!!

Hey, where did you get that? I was only aware of the model kit. Didn't know there was a toy.

[Dangard Ace]

Hey, where did you get that? I was only aware of the model kit. Didn't know there was a toy.

That's the model kit.