New Homeworld 2 Macross Mod

[chillyche]

Nonetheless, I've finally beat mission 12 after a WAY-TOO-DAMNED-LONG 5-hour game.

This is soooo OT, but, when I beat Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete, the end boss battle took something like 5 hours. I started hours before my job. Paused, went to work, came home 8 hours later, and played until the wee hours of the morning. Subsequent attempts were in the 20 - 30 minute category. I just wanted to say, I feel your pain about ridiculously long sessions spent on a single mission/battle/whaever.

[big F]

In the past I have come across some games where the end game boss or scenario is so ott. Even with all power UPS an maybe a hand full of infinite lifes health ammo etc are near impossible. It's just programmers running out of ideas. It is shameful though when you get a hard level in the middle followed by easy one/s.

Edited August 27, 2010 by big F

[Mr March]

The difficulty of Mission 12 stands out so much simply in contrast to the rest of the sequel missions and the original Homeworld missions. Granted, the Homeworld games always were too difficult and the accessibility of the games suffered as a result. Yet while I personally found it only some minor inconvenience to play most of the harder missions over once or twice, Mission 12 simply seems way out of context with the rest of the series. I can understand wanting to build at least one real challenge that makes the player sweat, but then why not save that challenge for Makaan and the grand finale? I just think someone was asleep the day they had to play test Mission 12

There also comes a point where the player's style simply doesn't work with what the programmers expect the player to do to win. I've watched YouTube videos of players beating Homeworld 2 Mission 12 through straight up frontal force, using lengthy production queues to keep fleets stocked with new ships. But the actual combat is micromanaged to such a degree the action resembles a player at the controls of something resembling Street Fighter 2 rather than Homeworld. At that point I fail to see the worth of playing a "strategy" game if it's become a button mash or script race. But that's just me.

Moral of the story, I'm glad Mission 12 is over and I can have fun again. I love Mission 14

Edited August 27, 2010 by Mr March

[Major Focker]

this is continuing to be OT so apologies to the thread owner. i just hope it serves as an indication/encouragement of how eagerly anticipated this mod this.

finishing SC2 whetted my appetite for more PC games (i haven't played PC in years). so i raided the storage room and found i actually had 2 copies of HW2 (one still sealed) and also 2 of HW:C. can't remember how i ended up with multiple copies anyway, i'm also going to be queueing Freespace2 and Nexus:Jupiter Incident. i hope they play nice with W7.

Major Focker

I've never managed a workable method for capturing ships work in Homeworld 2. I've no idea how capturing is supposed to work in the sequel, if at all. I can only use the Marine Frigate successfully for "event" captures as part of a mission objective of the story. The marine frigates (or MF...an appropriately vulgar acronym for this useless vessel) either get blown up as soon as they target an enemy - which means one must micromanage the MFs in order to avoid this - or the MFs just sit there inert after "capturing" a vessel. It's such a shame, especially after the ease with which one could capture and secure ships in the original game (which was a ton of fun).

yeah, in HW1 capturing was easy to abuse, but relic overcompensated on making captures more difficult in HW2. i miss capturing under fire being a viable tactic, i also miss my captured fleet of multi-beam frigates and acolytes, and claw formations, and fighters running out of fuel (they forced carriers to be more forward and therefore the rest of the fleet to protect them, rather than just camping around the MS).

anyway, a few things to keep in mind when capturing in HW2:

1. make sure you have a spare slot in the unit caps for whatever you're capturing. otherwise your MFs will just be inert after a "successful" capture as you've described above.

2. always send more MFs than you require, to soak up the fire, ensure enough survive for the capture, and have immediate spares in case some get destroyed mid-capture

3. make sure there are no destroyers in the vicinity, theirs AND yours. they're very good at chewing up frigates. and i say including yours because they do splash damage to your own attached MFs. better yet, keep the rest of your fleet away once the capture has been initiated (particularly if the capture target is smaller than a BC), or keep them occupied with other targets.

4. destroy subsystems before and during capture. take out engines so your MFs can attach faster, then missile batteries so they don't rain on your attached MFs. but never use your destroyers to take out subsystems. they have lousy aim and will end up hitting your MFs.

to capture the hyperBC in M11 i kept targeting its engines with my bombers to make it lag the rest of the enemy wave and to make sure it was far enough from my front line during capture (otherwise it'll keep firing its trinity cannon and i'll have a bench clearing rumble). when there was enough distance i sent the MFs on a shift-queued down then up route to dodge the incoming wave. give the destroyers a wide berth or they'll come after your MFs. timing when to send your MFs is critical. if you wait until you've cleared the rest of the wave, chances are the next wave is already inbound, or your frontline would've inched forward and start clobbering your target BC. i've found having the MFs initiate capture when the rest of the enemy wave is just past half strength provides a sufficient window of opportunity. you're frontline will be occupied leaving you to capture in relative peace. during the capture, bombers should alternate between keeping the engines and missile batteries offline and helping out at the frontline. prioritize engines if your fleet is just about done with rest of the wave, otherwise hit the missile batteries to keep your MFs alive.

it's a lot of micro but also very rewarding (despite having to replay M11 several times as the BCs don't always build a hyperspace module). the hyperBC is immensely useful for both M12 and M13 to reach the more distant enemy groups earlier. after that though, it starts to lag behind in upgrades, but i kept it until the end simply because i was too attached to it.

[frothymug]

I recently played Freespace 2 on my Vista system and it wouldn't run right out of the box. I had to use a program called Freespace 2 Open to get it to work. Not sure if you will have the same problems with 7, but just in case, there's a solution for ya once you get around to installing it.

[Mr March]

A note about...the graphics problem with Homeworld 2

We may be off topic for this thread, but smoothly operating Homeworld 2 might be pretty important for those wishing to play this fan modification. So I found a solution online to the graphics problem I was experiencing. There is a display configuration for Homeworld 2 called "Vertex Buffer Objects" that for some reason is not supported properly with the ATI video card drivers. It results in graphic errors where ships are not rendered (appear invisible), backgrounds are blank (everything is black, except for stars) and nebulae appear as poorly drawn multi-colored objects. See pictures below (or the following links):

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/4661/homeworld2noships.jpg

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/2899/homeworld2rendererror.jpg

To solve this issue, install the latest ATI video card drivers. Then, add the following line to the "Properties" run line on your Homeworld 2 shortcut icon (include a space after Homeworld2.exe):

-noVBO

I've tested this solution and it works perfectly. No longer any need for old drivers

Major Focker

Thanks for the description of capturing; would have been so nice if Relic included that information within the game manual So basically I'd have to scrap one of my own Battlecruisers to create a vacancy within the ship limit for a captured Battlecruiser. That explains why ship capture in Homeworld 2 is as useless as I've always thought, except under some unique circumstance, such as capturing a hyperspace-capable BC prior to mission 12. Nonetheless, I'll have to give this strategy a try and see how it works.

I've completed the game and had a blast in the last mission. Poor Hiigara got hit with an Atmosphere Depletion Missile and lost 78 million people before the mission was over. Had to learn the hard way those stupid Pulsar Gunships can't even catch the missiles to intercept them. Sajuuk is so much fun to see in action. The beam cannon on the Sajuuk reminds me so much of the Macross main gun and it's got one helluva range too. I find it a little strange Hiigara only has a population of 180 million. That's like half the population of the US, but for the whole planet. But I suppose the population of Hiigara is largely only the remains of the Kushan population a few generations after the Mothership made planetfall. Guess all the Taiidan got kicked out

[shadow3393]

Major Focker-

No problem, on the OT.

Mod update:

My work schedule got switched on me, haven't had time to finish up balancing. Gonna work on in extensively the coming Wednesday. Aiming to be done by end of next week. Need to find a good place to host it when it is finished.

[chillyche]

Major Focker-

No problem, on the OT.

Mod update:

My work schedule got switched on me, haven't had time to finish up balancing. Gonna work on in extensively the coming Wednesday. Aiming to be done by end of next week. Need to find a good place to host it when it is finished.

How big will the file be? I have some hosting space.

[Seirra 54]

I was just curious if the Macross Quarter was in game or not. I know this might be one of those annoying questions, but after thinking about how awesome this mod is going to be, I though will there be a Quarter or not? Thanks for your time, can't wait for this to come out. If I could only model, code, or texture...

[Doomgiver]

u can host it on moddb.com

[big F]

As far as hosting goes, there are many options. The question I think at this early stage is should we (i use the term we in the royal tense) be offering it out to the masses outside MW. I'm sure many of the robotech guys would love it. But shouldn't we at least get past beta 1 first. I'm as anxious to play it as anyone else here but don't want the mod to go off half cocked and put a downer on everyone's expectations.

[sketchley]

As far as hosting goes, there are many options. The question I think at this early stage is should we (i use the term we in the royal tense) be offering it out to the masses outside MW. I'm sure many of the robotech guys would love it. But shouldn't we at least get past beta 1 first. I'm as anxious to play it as anyone else here but don't want the mod to go off half cocked and put a downer on everyone's expectations.

I don't have the game nor play it, but I've been following threads about this for years. Therefore, take my input with a grain of salt:

On the one hand, waiting until things are past beta 1 would be preferable, as a release too early will poison the reception of the finished (or a "more" finished) version.

On the other hand, this project has been going on for years and years and years, with lots of people who disappear from the project when they lose their motivation/time for it, and a lot of empty promises that the mod is "coming soon".

Therefore, I strongly feel that releasing now is better, as a) everyone will have the fruits of the labours of those involved in the project over the years, now and not "later" (therefore giving you guys credit that a promise has been kept), and b) there's the strong possibility of increased interest in helping see the project to completion, from the greater internet (or HW2) community.

[chillyche]

From an artists standpoint, I like to hold onto a project until it's something that is reasonably polished. From a modder's standpoint, there's a line that has to be drawn. A lot of people who have been following this thread want to get their hands on SOMETHING. Whether its finished or not. And seeing something that plays, even if it's just one mission, will reignite the flames of interest. For games, a beta is like an interactive trailer.

But, the grain of salt there is that a bad trailer sometimes does more harm than good. Of course, if a trailer is received poorly, just go back to the drawing board and make a good trailer. Regardless of what you thought of the finished film, the 3rd trailer for J.J. Abrams Star Trek movie got a lot of people -- Trekkers and Laymen alike -- excited to see that movie, after the previous two trailers had excited only some people. As a result, the film did quite well, particularly with new audiences. I think the music had a lot to do with that. NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF SONG, am I right fellow Macross fans?

Anyway, I've been going through the same kind of debate with Macross Aria. I wanted to withhold content until we had something I could call FINISHED. A finished teaser, a finished scene, a finished SOMETHING. We have a lot of stuff that is WIP. But the thing about cloud-based projects -- that is, with dev teams spread out all over the world, working in fits and spurts -- is that these things thrive off of interaction with the communities that support the project. For Aria, our current character designer, the talented Cannon_Fodder came to us after drawing a picture based on an early sketch we had posted. If we hadn't posted anything, we'd still be sitting around with that initial sketch, instead locked designs, and all sort of other fun stuff. And after posting the audio teaser, one of the voice actors sent me rerecorded lines, because he felt he could do better. So, I guess, I'm advocating releasing something. Even if its another video of game play. Heck, I'd love to cut a trailer of exciting gameplay footage (hint hint). But I DO think a beta, no matter how rough around the edges, will show that this thing IS happening. I think maybe just keeping the link in the family so-to-speak would be wise until you collect some feedback and tune a second beta.

Word. Oh, disclosure: I've never played HW2.

[Major Focker]

i've recently been reading up on another HW mod called R.E.A.R.M. currently under active development. from what i gather, there's been a few alpha releases which were well received and triggered both feedback and contributions. that may be just what this mod needs at this stage, so i'm inclined towards releasing something sooner rather than later. on the off chance that it bombs, it can always be rectified by the next release. the key is to demonstrate it's moving forward.

[Zinjo]

i've recently been reading up on another HW mod called R.E.A.R.M. currently under active development. from what i gather, there's been a few alpha releases which were well received and triggered both feedback and contributions. that may be just what this mod needs at this stage, so i'm inclined towards releasing something sooner rather than later. on the off chance that it bombs, it can always be rectified by the next release. the key is to demonstrate it's moving forward.

I'd suggest keeping the 1st beta "in the family" (MWF) for player feedback and "closed" (so to speak) testing.

Once the beta has been polished and tweaked, I'd suggest posting the "general release" candidate up on torrents as well as certain donated file sharing sites for general consumption.

Though I'd suggest ensuring that the mod plays on Win 7 or the general release will go sour quickly.

Once its out there it will indeed take on a life unto itself!

Edited August 30, 2010 by Zinjo

[shadow3393]

Mod update:

Initial balancing is complete.

Capital ships:

Meltran have cheaper capital ships but are much weaker in terms of firepower than the Zentran capital ships.

Meltran capital ship weapons have longer range than Zentrans.

Zentran ships are very vulnerable to fighters, they have very little AA. One should always have a good fighter screen protecting it.

Meltrans have moderate AA.

Meltrans have more capital ship classes than the Zentran.

All capital ships can fire across the stock game maps(*Planning to have much bigger maps in the future), so recon and effective cap is essential.

Fighters:

Zentran have cheaper but weaker fighters than the Meltran.

Meltrans have fewer selection of fighters than the Zentrans.

Please let me know if one side is too overpowered.(*Both Zentran and Meltran will destroy the stock game races)

Note, there is no AI yet for the Macross races.

The mod will be about 120 mbs. If anyone is willing to host it, let me know.

Edited September 2, 2010 by shadow3393

[Doomgiver]

shadow do u want it closed to all nonmembers of MW or open to everyone

i can host it on mediafire if u want

Edited September 2, 2010 by Doomgiver

[Fri]

wow, I almost can't believe my eyes. It actually seems that it's going to be released soon! I registered in this forum back then just to follow this thread

[Million Star]

So just Meltran vs Zentran for now? No UN Spacy?

[shadow3393]

Yup, just Meltran and Zentran for now.

[Doomgiver]

i wish we were getting the un spacey and so the ships can shot to the other side of the map but how big is the sense range

[chillyche]

All in due time for UN Spacy. The feedback the team gets from the Z v M beta will help them as they balance for UN Spacy. I, for one, am happy to see any kind of release. GO TEAM!

[Agni]

All in due time for UN Spacy. The feedback the team gets from the Z v M beta will help them as they balance for UN Spacy. I, for one, am happy to see any kind of release. GO TEAM!

i totally agree with you

besides is as clear as day that the UNS focus will be the fighters and the mothership but before that comes the balancing of the other races capital/frigate ships

[Million Star]

okay, I guess in the long term (or in this mod`s case the REALLY long term) its better to work up to the Spacy slowly.

[Chthonic]

Nice to see everything progressing. Shawdow Give me a buzz when you can

[shadow3393]

Ok,I think I have caught all the bugs. Please let me know if anything odd happens.

Update:

Found a small bug, fixing uploading correct version

Update:

Fixed version

http://rapidshare.com/files/418328494/MacrossGenerations_BetaV1.big

Edited September 10, 2010 by shadow3393

[Lutherian]

Just played as the meltrandi, noticed that their harvesters did not want to go to any other ship after I warped in some flagships, even tried ordering them to a carrier, but they still went to the flagship after going to the carrier once. Also, I can't remember if you said anything about implementing AI in this release, cause there doesn't seem to be any. Will update if I find anything else odd.

[Major Focker]

hope someone can mirror this on hotfile. thanks

[Lutherian]

just finished a couple games as the zentradi, one playing on the default unit limit, which I found an issue in, and one with the high limit.

On the default limit I noticed that all the capital class ships were counted as battlecruisers, with the exception of flagships, which only allowed me to build 2 other capital ships before the game decided I couldn't build any more. Also, for some reason or another my harvesters disappeared mid game, maybe they got stuck in one of the ships. But I also noticed that they did not always want to go to the flag ship like the meltran harvesters.

Played a second game to see if any of the AI was on, tried against an expert hiigaran, seems there isn't any, it's not an issue, just clarifying to anyone that sees this that there isn't any AI in this release. Also tried to get a recreation of my harvesters disappearing mid game, it didn't happen this game.

Will let you know if I find anything else, loving all the models and effects for the ships so far. But I do have a question, the zentradi flagship opens up like it's going to shoot a large beam(I'm fairly certain they did this in one series), has it just not been implemented? I could see how it would be a bit unbalanced if it was in there at the moment, so I was just wondering if it was going to be added to the game or not.

[shadow3393]

Lutherian:

Can you please clarify about the harvester issue. Regarding the buster cannon on the Nupetiet, I believe it is set to special weapon so push z to fire. Also there is no AI implemented for the Macross races for now.

[Lutherian]

Lutherian:

Can you please clarify about the harvester issue. Regarding the buster cannon on the Nupetiet, I believe it is set to special weapon so push z to fire. Also there is no AI implemented for the Macross races for now.

Thanks for the tip about hitting z, it works. I guess I was just half asleep when I thought I noticed a bug, I can't recreate it, so my apologies for saying anything about it.

Nice work on the mod though, really glad someone worked so hard to bring us a macross rts game.

Edited September 12, 2010 by Lutherian

[GPantera]

I had way too much fun with this release. Shame the Macross races don't have AI, though.

Meltran pickets seem to not want to fire on probes.

Seems to be an issue, not sure if you already know this, with docking a squad of Queadluun-Rau with the Meltran Gun Destroyer. They enter, but they don't stay or repair. I figure it's just the GD specifically but I'm unsure.

Edit: Oh, and most of the missile-using units seem to be hitting themselves and each other with them.

Edited September 12, 2010 by GPantera

[LexThorn]

I`m sorry for my incompetence. It would be nice to add here already modified shortcut for the mod or instruction "how to launch mod".

Edited September 12, 2010 by LexThorn

[GPantera]

Make a copy of the HW2 shortcut and just add:

-mod MacrossGenerations_BetaV1.big

to the end of it.

[Agni]

there is the issue about how the units are deployed in the game

all of them go to the same line when created and the frigates/capitals don't settle in a position unless you move them

and it's strange to have the flagship coming out of the carriers they're smaller yet the flagship comes out of them

oh and one thing i didn't try yet so i'll ask here

does the frigates come out of the flagship when they're build from it or they still come out from hyperspace?