The Judah System good or bad idea?

[RedWolf]

Interesting just got the gg avi sub.

Apparently Luca's AIF-7S Ghosts have the same system as the X-9 Ghost, the Judah system.

Indicating perhaps all Ghosts that decended from the X-9 have bio chips but their programming is restrained.

When Luca released their programming they were able to compete with Galaxy's V-9 Ghosts which is controlled by Macross Galaxy's collective consciousness.

Kinda like releasing the Cylon Centurions Telencephalic inhibitor.

But in this case whatever self preservation instinct in Luca's Ghost is transformed to a protective instinct of their creator.

No wonder he talks to them like they are real persons.

Also you have to wonder if this system is also applied to unmaned Variable Fighters such as the Neo Glaug and to an armed VF-11 drones.

Thing if Luca's Ghosts AI is released is there no going back for them? Assuming they survived.

Even before Sharon Apple the NUN has been careful about giving their creations sentience.

But with ones like Grace who has become more machine than human would humans accept AI's.

So far antagonists like Sharon Apple and Grace were implanted with human memories and emotions.

The only reason the X-9 Ghost went rogue was because Sharon possesed it.

One of Luca's Ghosts sacrificed itself for Luca.

So is the Judah system good or bad idea?

[manwiththemachinegun]

Makes sense as a weapon of last resort, but the unpredictability of it means it can't be used often.

[Sumdumgai]

It's Lucca we're talking about, of course it's a bad idea.

In all seriousness though, there's a lot that's gone on since Macross Plus and Macross 7. Perhaps there have been advances in AI technology that makes bioneural chips no longer so dangerous, or maybe they use a different AI system.

And I don't recall ever hearing anything about a Judah system in Macross Plus.

[taksraven]

Well in this case it was to even the odds so it makes sense to have it there as a backup. Bit like the dummy plug system in Evangelion.

Taksraven

[Gubaba]

I kind of doubt that the A.I. Luca uses is the same as the bio-neural chip kind of A.I. from Plus...In fact, I assumed Luca made the system himself because it has a Biblically-derived name, just like his Ghosts (Simon, John, and Peter, all Apostles (as was Luca [Luke] himself)) and his Ex-Gear (Samson, named for the legendary strongman). Judah could refer to a number of things, but here I believe it was named for the kingdom that split off from Israel and became independent.

[junior]

Or the son of Jacob that the Kingdom of Judah was named after.

[Keith]

I actually got the impression that the Judah system was the restraint system put on the A.I. As for having highly illegal hardware such as bio-nueral cihps, if the boy can get ahold of Dimension Eaters, why the hell wouldn't he be able to get ahold of those.

[Zinjo]

I actually got the impression that the Judah system was the restraint system put on the A.I. As for having highly illegal hardware such as bio-nueral cihps, if the boy can get ahold of Dimension Eaters, why the hell wouldn't he be able to get ahold of those.

Makes sense to me, since "Judah" or rather "Judas" implies treacherous behavior and if the Sharon Apple type of AI is used, they would need some sort of system to keep it under control. Possibly it was meant to be called the "Judas" System and the writers made a mistake with the name.

Edited September 28, 2008 by Zinjo

[ChronoReverse]

I kind of doubt that the A.I. Luca uses is the same as the bio-neural chip kind of A.I. from Plus...In fact, I assumed Luca made the system himself because it has a Biblically-derived name, just like his Ghosts (Simon, John, and Peter, all Apostles (as was Luca [Luke] himself)) and his Ex-Gear (Samson, named for the legendary strongman). Judah could refer to a number of things, but here I believe it was named for the kingdom that split off from Israel and became independent.

He basically spells it out that it was the same system that held Macross City in fear. Besides the Ghost X-9 Bioneural chip what other drone did that?

[Noyhauser]

Makes sense to me, since "Judah" or rather "Judas" implies treacherous behavior and if the Sharon Apple type of AI is used, they would need some sort of system to keep it under control. Possibly it was meant to be called the "Judas" System and the writers made a mistake with the name.

Maybe thats exactly what they meant, as in a macabre sort of way. Turn on the Judas system and yeah it might eliminate your enemies at the risk that it might stab you in the back like judas.

[RichterX]

The Judah system actually makes sense for the Drones Luca had, he named them and take very special care for each of his gadgets. If any thing the Drones always so him as their master.

[Valkyrie addict]

maybe they have a self destruct mechanism that can be activated by the person controlling them as a fail safe if anything goes wrong

[wolfx]

So is Luca = Luke or Jesus?

To me it seemed like he just allowed the A.I to take over the controls for the Ghosts whereas before it was subservient to its master. Prior to Judah, the Ghosts will maneuver itself but target acquisition and "commands" probably need to be issued by Luca. With Judah System, the Ghosts get full autonomy like the X-9s. In fact i think the phrase Luca says when releasing them (something about releasing yokes?) is a bible verse.

Angeloni is such a stereotypical Catholic name after all.

[RichterX]

Angeloni is such a stereotypical Catholic name after all.

Because it is italian?

[Fade Rathnik]

Well it could be many things really. One thing that occurred to me, after the first battle Luca's ghosts were the only ones flying. Until the scout ghost found the Varja planet. Perhaps the bio-neural chips are less sensitive to interference from the Varja, so Luca just used them with the a standard operating system so that the AI wasn't running. Figuring he might need it at some point he tweaked and loaded the AI into the memory and locked it.

Now this is Luca and he loves his machines. He takes care of them and talks to them, Honestly considering that I wouldn't fear those three ghosts even if their were always unlocked. One of those ghosts made it quite clear why when it saved Luca. A self preservation instinct is not by nature good or bad, it's all about how the intelligence interprets that instinct. Take any one who is a parent, lover, or friend. I am all of those and there are people I would die for, and this is while having that same instinct to live that kept me alive when i should be dead through a nasty car accident.

[Final Vegeta]

One thing that occurred to me, after the first battle Luca's ghosts were the only ones flying.

Luca's ghosts used fold comunications. This was specifically mentioned in ep. 7.

Prototype Fold Communication Guidance System, operational. With this we don't have to worry about the Vajra interfering with us.

FV

[eugimon]

Makes sense to me, since "Judah" or rather "Judas" implies treacherous behavior and if the Sharon Apple type of AI is used, they would need some sort of system to keep it under control. Possibly it was meant to be called the "Judas" System and the writers made a mistake with the name.

I disagree, given Lucas' character, naming it the Judah system makes sense. Judah stood apart from israel, survived the destruction of israel and is now considered the tribe of origin for most living Jews. Lucas obviously thinks that technology is the way to go so calling his unleashed AI the Judah system is probably a nod to the idea that AI is the future.

[dreamweaver13]

it's probably a bad idea, hence it was only used as a last resort. releasing the full AI always runs the risk of it going Sharon Apple again. but still, it's friggin cool to hear them being released.

[DeeBot]

I think the ultimate message is that AI was given a bad rap. AI/technology is neither good nor bad, it's all about how you use it. You had both the evil Ghost V-9s from Galaxy, and Luca's more heroic Ghosts, fighting on opposite sides. You had evil and good humans on opposite sides, too.

From episode 1, we get the impression that humanity froze AI development in its tracks after the Sharon Apple incident. I think Luca's moment in the sun is a recognition that this was ultimately an overreaction, blaming the tool instead of the user.

The Judah system isn't good or bad, it's neither.

Edited September 30, 2008 by DeeBot

[dreamweaver13]

I think the ultimate message is that AI was given a bad rap. AI/technology is neither good nor bad, it's all about how you use it. You had both the evil Ghost V-9s from Galaxy, and Luca's more heroic Ghosts, fighting on opposite sides. You had evil and good humans on opposite sides, too.

From episode 1, we get the impression that humanity froze AI development in its tracks after the Sharon Apple incident. I think Luca's moment in the sun is a recognition that this was ultimately an overreaction, blaming the tool instead of the user.

The Judah system isn't good or bad, it's neither.

the thing is, who was the user in Macross Plus? Marje didn't tell Sharon Apple to go crazy and take over Macross City. she did it on her own, because of her feelings for Isamu.

True, the Judah system isn't naturally good or bad. In fact, Sharon Apple wasn't good or bad, either. she just had a different concept of how to act on her "love".

Edited September 30, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[RedWolf]

I think the ultimate message is that AI was given a bad rap. AI/technology is neither good nor bad, it's all about how you use it. You had both the evil Ghost V-9s from Galaxy, and Luca's more heroic Ghosts, fighting on opposite sides. You had evil and good humans on opposite sides, too.

From episode 1, we get the impression that humanity froze AI development in its tracks after the Sharon Apple incident. I think Luca's moment in the sun is a recognition that this was ultimately an overreaction, blaming the tool instead of the user.

The Judah system isn't good or bad, it's neither.

Its unpredictable. But at this point of history people will still be weary of AI as a group of humans willing became machines and tried to take over the galaxy.

Unless Luca starts to create a Macross or Valkyrie version of the Bolo. Utterly loyal to humanity to the point of self sacrifice.

Of course there is also the question we are merely taking the same steps as the Protoculture. Creating our nominal descendants through AI.

Sounds NBSG-ish doesn't it?

The Zentradi were as much the children of the Protoculture as humans and Zolans.

Edited September 30, 2008 by RedWolf

[Fade Rathnik]

Its unpredictable. But at this point of history people will still be weary of AI as a group of humans willing became machines and tried to take over the galaxy.

Unless Luca starts to create a Macross or Valkyrie version of the Bolo. Utterly loyal to humanity to the point of self sacrifice.

A valk with a personality of it's own would be very interesting considering they already are a big part of the series supporting cast. I've always figured a valk has some rudimentary self awareness not unlike a horse or any other beast of burden. But if it was fully aware we'd really start seeing pilots talking to their planes.

[Gubaba]

A valk with a personality of it's own would be very interesting considering they already are a big part of the series supporting cast. I've always figured a valk has some rudimentary self awareness not unlike a horse or any other beast of burden. But if it was fully aware we'd really start seeing pilots talking to their planes.

Macross Knight Rider...?

[aerocombatpilot]

A valk with a personality of it's own would be very interesting considering they already are a big part of the series supporting cast. I've always figured a valk has some rudimentary self awareness not unlike a horse or any other beast of burden. But if it was fully aware we'd really start seeing pilots talking to their planes.

Yukikaze!!!!!