Macross Frontier Compared to Other Series Thread *Read 1st post*

[Final Vegeta]

well, I'm not defending Frontier crappy animated episode, cause they looked horrible, specially the episode where they kill Michael, I hated that episode so much cause the animation was just awful

What? Given that it was X-Gears VS stage 2 Vajra, it had the most amount of animated 2D in Frontier, and it wasn't even bad. In fact, IIRC the last episodes were most consistent than the first ones. I remember as bad episodes 4, 6 and 8. In the others there were some "quality" here and there

but like I said before, thanks to today's standards Frontier stands out but it could easy be rated as the one with he worst to best animation on a tv macross series, shame actually

The worst animation is Gundoh Musashi

FV

[VF-25 Messiah]

What? Given that it was X-Gears VS stage 2 Vajra, it had the most amount of animated 2D in Frontier, and it wasn't even bad. In fact, IIRC the last episodes were most consistent than the first ones. I remember as bad episodes 4, 6 and 8. In the others there were some "quality" here and there

The worst animation is Gundoh Musashi

FV

I would add the kitty fight from episode 10 to that... Actually rather curious as to how some of these will look on the BD/DVD release, as I can't imagine them leaving it like 'em as is.

[Final Vegeta]

I would add the kitty fight from episode 10 to that...

I've never considered that "bad animation", more like "alternative animation"

FV

[VF-25 Messiah]

I've never considered that "bad animation", more like "alternative animation"

FV

How long has it been since you saw it? Take a look again. It's bad. I'm guessing the scene perhaps needed to be reanimated again at a very late stage, so that was the best they could do before it had to air. I'm going to be surprised if it still looks like that on the BD.

[Nexx Stalker]

I agree and even Frontier's attempt to up the ante felt more than a little afterthought-ish. It was clearly an attempt to broaden the scope of the series, but was done in the eleventh hour so it lost much of what it was trying to accomplish.

Digressing, I'm still holding SDF Macross over Frontier as well. It simply got more right than Frontier did. But I have to say Frontier got more right than I could have ever hoped in a modern Macross sequel. For all the fan bitching and nitpicking, Frontier was an enjoyable and exciting militaristic Macross adventure. I'd give SDFM a 10, Macross Frontier an 8 and Macross 7 a 2.

You should have given Macross 7 at least a 7.

...

Hahaha.

[Nexx Stalker]

I've never considered that "bad animation", more like "alternative animation"

FV

Me too. I liked it. It was strange, yes, but had an artistic feel to it.

[Oihan]

I voted no to both...only because I believe nothing could ever top the original that started it all. I don't see how some of you are saying Frontier's animation wasn't that great. It's a lot better than what's seen in Macross 7, in my opinion. Overall, Frontier is one of the best in the series.

[Sergorn]

How long has it been since you saw it? Take a look again. It's bad. I'm guessing the scene perhaps needed to be reanimated again at a very late stage, so that was the best they could do before it had to air. I'm going to be surprised if it still looks like that on the BD.

I always got the impression that they tried to go for some sort of highly stylised look for the whole Brera/Hydra fight. It wouldn't be the first time Kawamori did something like this (Aquarion had an *entire* episode made to look ugly)... but yeah I though the result here was kinda crappy.

That being I'm not voting in the poll... it'd be like chosing between my own children. :-P Also I've only seen most of the episode once, so I'd definitly have to see the whole series a couple more time before even remotly trying to rank it with the other series....

But I digress... I'll say I just love Macross Frontier as much as the other Macross series TV or OAVs alike. It had some flaws yeah, but so did SDFM, Macross Zero, Macross Plus, Macross Zero... I'll just this was IMO everything I wanted for a new Macross series.

-Sergorn

[Nexx Stalker]

I always got the impression that they tried to go for some sort of highly stylised look for the whole Brera/Hydra fight. It wouldn't be the first time Kawamori did something like this (Aquarion had an *entire* episode made to look ugly)... but yeah I though the result here was kinda crappy.

That being I'm not voting in the poll... it'd be like chosing between my own children. :-P Also I've only seen most of the episode once, so I'd definitly have to see the whole series a couple more time before even remotly trying to rank it with the other series....

But I digress... I'll say I just love Macross Frontier as much as the other Macross series TV or OAVs alike. It had some flaws yeah, but so did SDFM, Macross Zero, Macross Plus, Macross Zero... I'll just this was IMO everything I wanted for a new Macross series.

-Sergorn

SDF Macross has no flaws .

PS: you must hate Macross 0, you cited it twice!

Edited September 28, 2008 by Nexx Stalker

[wolfx]

I've never considered that "bad animation", more like "alternative animation"

FV

Me too. I liked it. It was strange, yes, but had an artistic feel to it.

Since when Macross became "artsy fartsy" ?

I'm sure its just bad animation. There's no reason at all for it to be stylised. Apart from ep 10, there's the infamous panty chasing episode too.

[sketchley]

IMHO, I think all the focus on that episode was on making it look and feel like Macross 0. Then someone suddenly noticed that they had completely forgotten to animate the cat-fight, and it was done at the very, very last minute.

Here's hoping that they, at the very least, do some tweening.

[VF-25 Messiah]

IMHO, I think all the focus on that episode was on making it look and feel like Macross 0. Then someone suddenly noticed that they had completely forgotten to animate the cat-fight, and it was done at the very, very last minute.

Here's hoping that they, at the very least, do some tweening.

Agreed. Or perhaps realized they needed to reanimated the shot, only hours ahead of it being aired

Like I said earlier, I WILL be surprised if it ends up looking exactly the same on the BD...

[Final Vegeta]

Since when Macross became "artsy fartsy" ?

I'm sure its just bad animation. There's no reason at all for it to be stylised. Apart from ep 10, there's the infamous panty chasing episode too.

The reason to be stylised is that you are giving your animators the possibility to bring out the best in them by letting them do what they want sometimes. This makes feel people more part of the production rather than simply peons.

About Aquarion 19, you should read what was written in pelleas.net.

FV

[VF-25 Messiah]

The reason to be stylised is that you are giving your animators the possibility to bring out the best in them by letting them do what they want sometimes. This makes feel people more part of the production rather than simply peons.

About Aquarion 19, you should read what was written in pelleas.net.

FV

Maybe its both?

Staff guy 1: "Hey this scene needs to be redone, but we got all our guys tied up with the following scene, we won't make it on time!"

Staff guy 2: "I know, let's give it to our talented new guy, he's really fast!"

Staff guy 1: "No matter how fast he is, there's just not enough time to do it properly"

Staff guy 2: "We'll just tell him to do the best he can given the time, we'll give him plenty of time to do it properly for the DVD release!"

Or some such ... not really sure what I'm arguing here anymore

[Black Valkyrie]

SDF Macross will always be No. 01, no matter what cuz it was original with new ideas. As for Macross Frontier IMO, since its a sequel, it`s the second best after SDF Macross.

As for the VFs for me now, the VF-25 is my fave Valk of all time for its more realistic transformation, looks and the VF-1 moves to the No. 02 spot, for many reasons, one of the reasons … anime magic .

[Sumdumgai]

The attacking Hydra scene was bad animation, just like the knife fight between Max and Miria was bad animation, just like a great deal of Flame of Rekka was chock full of bad animation (especially the final episode of that series). Calling it artsy to me just seems like an excuse to not admit that there were some negative things in the series that took away from the whole. But artsy is some peoples' opinion, bad animation is mine.

And most of the rest of the series had overall fantastic animation, though distant character shots could have been better a number of times (missing faces or deformed faces).

Edited September 28, 2008 by Sumdumgai

[Final Vegeta]

The attacking Hydra scene was bad animation, just like the knife fight between Max and Miria was bad animation

It's not the same thing. The scenes with the Hydra were very fluid and were drawn in a way that was consistent in itself, thus the work of a specific animator, that was chosen exactly because he was able to animate such dynamic scenes. Because there was so much movement the number of lines used to draw things was lowered, but in no case it was bad animation, and as such authors aren't likely to correct it in the BD.

FV

[VF-25 Messiah]

It's not the same thing. The scenes with the Hydra were very fluid and were drawn in a way that was consistent in itself, thus the work of a specific animator, that was chosen exactly because he was able to animate such dynamic scenes. Because there was so much movement the number of lines used to draw things was lowered, but in no case it was bad animation, and as such authors aren't likely to correct it in the BD.

FV

I'm gonna make you eat those words if the scene ends up looking different

[Tobi54]

The attacking Hydra scene was bad animation, just like the knife fight between Max and Miria was bad animation, just like a great deal of Flame of Rekka was chock full of bad animation (especially the final episode of that series). Calling it artsy to me just seems like an excuse to not admit that there were some negative things in the series that took away from the whole. But artsy is some peoples' opinion, bad animation is mine.

And most of the rest of the series had overall fantastic animation, though distant character shots could have been better a number of times (missing faces or deformed faces).

+1

[Tobi54]

It's not the same thing. The scenes with the Hydra were very fluid and were drawn in a way that was consistent in itself, thus the work of a specific animator, that was chosen exactly because he was able to animate such dynamic scenes. Because there was so much movement the number of lines used to draw things was lowered, but in no case it was bad animation, and as such authors aren't likely to correct it in the BD.

FV

The same can be said about the Max and Miria fight, since it was consistent in itself, but it is still bad animation.

[Graham]

Compared with other mecha anime, such as Gundam, Evangelion, Code Gayass, etc there is no comparison. Frontier leaves them all standing in the dust.

Heck, Frontier is better 120% of everything on TV at the moment, be it animated or live action IMO.

Compared with the two other Macross series, SDFM and M7 I'm rating Frontier better than both at the moment. My views may change after repeated views, but for now Frontier is tops.

I'd rate Frontier 1st place, M7 second place and SDFM 3rd place. That's not to say that SDFM isn't good, it is, but I just think both M7 are stronger productions. Anyways, I've always preferred DYRL to SDFM.

I'm planning a Macross marathon soon, watching all the TV series, OVAs movies in order.

Graham

[wolfx]

The reason to be stylised is that you are giving your animators the possibility to bring out the best in them by letting them do what they want sometimes. This makes feel people more part of the production rather than simply peons.

About Aquarion 19, you should read what was written in pelleas.net.

FV

They made an entire episode to use Utsonomiya's style in Aquarion. Based on that article, it would seem they went out of their way to make that episode for him. And remember Gurren Lagan 04, direction also by Utsonomiya. It caused big fan outrage that after much hoohah ended with one of GAINAX's founding fathers forced to resign. I really don't see him being used too soon by future companies for "artistic license" unless said companies want to take huge risks. Heck dun think i saw him in any jobs after GL ep04. The anime watching community is not THAT avant-garde yet.

But no matter, Frontier's quality was bad in certain areas (not just the hyda fight) and if you visit the bugs thread, there's also alot of inconsistencies which seem to point that the subcontractors who did the in-between animations weren't tightly QC-ed nor directed.

In Frontier....there's no doubt the hydra one was bad. If they wanted to stylise the hydra fight, they might as well have stylised the whole episode. Otherwise to have such a pretty episode of a Macross Zero homage only to be marred by a few seconds of hydra fight serves little meaning.

Compared with other mecha anime, such as Gundam, Evangelion, Code Gayass, etc there is no comparison. Frontier leaves them all standing in the dust.

Wait , you watch other anime?

Edited September 29, 2008 by wolfx

[Black Valkyrie]

Compared with other mecha anime, such as Gundam, Evangelion, Code Gayass, etc there is no comparison. Frontier leaves them all standing in the dust.

I've always preferred DYRL to SDFM.

Graham

Well not really for the other recent animes. No wonder why Yamato always releases new DYRL VFs first with ay new scale . I my self I`m not DYRL fan that much, always preferred SDFM.

So Graham after Macross Frontier have been completed so whats your fave VF of all time now ?

[VF-25 Messiah]

Well not really for the other recent animes. No wonder why Yamato always releases new DYRL VFs first with ay new scale . I my self I`m not DYRL fan that much, always preferred SDFM.

So Graham after Macross Frontier have been completed so whats your fave VF of all time now ?

My guess is his standing preference uh.. stands.

After all, both VF-171 and VF-171EX can be seen as variations of the VF-17...

[Isamu Starkiller]

As much as I enjoyed Frontier, SDF: M will always be my favorite, there's just something trully human about the characters and the love triangle in SDF:M. I'm not saying Frontiers triangle isn't good and for me it is resolved Alto needed to find his reason for joining SMS just like Hikaru needed to remember why he joined UNS Ranka/Minmay. But Alto loves Sheryl and cares for Ranka.

Anywho you can't beat an original IMO because without it all the references and fanservice wouldn't mean anything....and I think part of Frontiers magic is those references and fanservice.

1. SDF:M

2. Macross Frontier

3. Macross Plus

4. Macross Zero

5. Macross 7

[eugimon]

I think one thing that bothered me about Frontier is that Macross 7's animation and art was far more consistent episode to episode than Frontier's. If they were to go back and reanimate all of 7's combat sequences using CG, would I still call Frontier the best animated of the 3 series? I don't know. Also, the original SDF Macross, when not being outsourced, had some brilliant sequences and gorgeous art, all hand drawn.

M7 was more consistent than MF, but it was consistently mediocre while MF had some amazing episodes and some stinkers. Never reached the highs of SDFM or the lows of SDFM's animation either.

[Funkenstein]

The attacking Hydra scene was bad animation, just like the knife fight between Max and Miria was bad animation, just like a great deal of Flame of Rekka was chock full of bad animation (especially the final episode of that series). Calling it artsy to me just seems like an excuse to not admit that there were some negative things in the series that took away from the whole. But artsy is some peoples' opinion, bad animation is mine.

And most of the rest of the series had overall fantastic animation, though distant character shots could have been better a number of times (missing faces or deformed faces).

I take offense to the comment about the Max and Miriya knife fight.

[DJ_Convoy]

No real insight here- but I have to say that Frontier has dethroned Plus as my favorite Macross thing ever... which surprises me, as I didn't think I was going to like Frontier after I watched the Deculture edition. It seemed ... I dunno... really generic to me... but after maybe episode 3 or 4 it became the highlight of my week to watch. I can't wait to watch it all again after I work my way thru finishing Macross 7. Certainly the best anime I've seen in a long time.

[Mr March]

M7 was more consistent than MF, but it was consistently mediocre while MF had some amazing episodes and some stinkers. Never reached the highs of SDFM or the lows of SDFM's animation either.

I'd have to say that is a very fair assessment. In fact, Macross 7 was awful from the beginning, so it was very easy for them to maintain audience expectations.

[dreamweaver13]

haha. it's weird. i have this overwhelming feeling that MF is the "best.macross sequel.evah!!", and i love it to death, and then here's this poll where i have to vote a "no" on both counts. how negative can you get? as gubaba and march pointed out, it could have been couched a little differently (in a more positive way). But, hey, i voted, so that's that.

For me, SDFM still wins out as it is the more complete story. more realistic characters, developments. and the theme was more mature. and to think that SDFM got me hooked without any references to fall back on. MF has the advantage of hooking you in with all the old-school macross references.

Nevertheless, MF is one AWESOME series. i thought that Macross Plus would be my all-time favorite macross sequel, but MF grabbed the prize convincingly. and yes, surprisingly, i would even place it above DYRL (because DYRL just doesn't do it for me as much as SDFM).

So my personal ranking:

1. SDFM

2. Macross Frontier

3. DYRL/Flashback 2012

4. Macross Plus

5. Macross Zero

6. Macross 7

[Shouta]

For me, I'd go Mac7, SDFM, and MacF in that order for TV series while MacF would get knocked lower compared to the TV and OVA series.

MacF doesn't excel in the day-to-day life (Mac7) or space war story (SDFM). In fact, it even comes short of average for those series. MacF does have fantastic CG for the action sequences but pretty terrible animation for the day-to-day stuff, the exact opposite of Mac7.

As compared to other anime series, eh, not close to the best I've seen.

[Gubaba]

I'd have to say that is a very fair assessment. In fact, Macross 7 was awful from the beginning, so it was very easy for them to maintain audience expectations.

I remember reading an Animerica Interview with kawamori at the time, where he said that for MacPlus, he used one studio that loved to lavish their attention on all the little details (and were always late because of it) and used a studio for Mac7 that he knew could get things done very, very fast.

Personally, I think they could've slowed down just a little...

[Shaka_Z]

my own preference:

1 - SDFM

2 - M+/MF (tie)

3 - Zero

I havent been able to get past the first 2 episodes of M7, DYRL being a movie within the universe doesnt really count for me. Frontier could have easily taken 2nd for itself if it had been just a little longer (preferably 12-13 eps longer) and more detailed with the storyline - too many characters and plotlines got short-changed IMHO.

that said it was still a helluva ride - just not as refined as it could have been.

[Gubaba]

my own preference:

1 - SDFM

2 - M+/MF (tie)

3 - Zero

I havent been able to get past the first 2 episodes of M7, DYRL being a movie within the universe doesnt really count for me. Frontier could have easily taken 2nd for itself if it had been just a little longer (preferably 12-13 eps longer) and more detailed with the storyline - too many characters and plotlines got short-changed IMHO.

that said it was still a helluva ride - just not as refined as it could have been.

Have you not seen DYRL? If you haven't, you should. As Agent ONE memorably said once, "It's more beautiful than sunsets and childbirth."

And two episodes was WAY too early to conk out on M7...you have to at least get halfway through the series before you have earned the right to throw up your hands in disgust.

[Shaka_Z]

Have you not seen DYRL? If you haven't, you should. As Agent ONE memorably said once, "It's more beautiful than sunsets and childbirth."

I have indeed seen DYRL - just rewatched it last night matter of fact. forgive me for saying that I greatly prefer SDFM the series, as I feel that DYRL suffers from the same issues that movie adaptations of Tom Clancy novels do - it tries to distill something that really shouldnt be distilled, and loses a great deal of nuance in the process... it just doesnt have that epic feel the original series gives me.

And two episodes was WAY too early to conk out on M7...you have to at least get halfway through the series before you have earned the right to throw up your hands in disgust.

lol mark my words I will eventually get to it - I know it's those first few eps that are the really big hurdle. it's mainly the whole thing with the speaker missiles that makes me want to retch.

Edited September 30, 2008 by Shaka_Z