Macross Frontier Series Discussion Thread *READ 1st Post*

[wolfx]

I´ll happily concede that the creators of the show made Alto hard to read. They handled his build-up more subtle than with Sheryl, but IMO it definitely was there.

In a word....Downplayed.

Well, there is an antidote for it, if it is in the early stages... Sheryls infection was just too advanced to be treated that way. And I still don´t completely buy the V-Type = AIDS analogy. It was never outright stated that it is transmitted by sexual contact. Let´s just agree to disagree here.

V-type spreads through bodily fluids. Guess which fluid during sex can carry the virus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexually_transmitted_disease

Its not just AIDS that can be spread through intercourse. Many diseases can be spread through sexual intercourse due to the ease of exchange of bodily fluids in the genital area. Unless there's an in-universe reason that V-type specifically does not spread through sexual intercourse, then its assumed a STD cuz of it transmitted through bodily fluids.

[dreamweaver13]

In a word....Downplayed.

V-type spreads through bodily fluids. Guess which fluid during sex can carry the virus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexually_transmitted_disease

Its not just AIDS that can be spread through intercourse. Many diseases can be spread through sexual intercourse due to the ease of exchange of bodily fluids in the genital area. Unless there's an in-universe reason that V-type specifically does not spread through sexual intercourse, then its assumed a STD cuz of it transmitted through bodily fluids.

Ok, just for fun, and without taking sides on the "did they or didn't they?" debate:

On one side... avoiding a possible infection from a virus that takes a long time to really have a fatal effect, is not actually fatal until it reaches the brain, curable before it reaches the brain, and treatable even after it does. and when it does reach the brain, you get some special fold powers in the meantime.

On the other side... sex with sheryl.

...

One happy meal number # 2 please.

[shan]

I don't think it's an 'opinion' that Alto and Sheryl didn't have sex. It's a fact. Sheryl has a bodily fluid transmitted disease. Alto will be infected by now but there were no signs that he was suffering the same thing as Sheryl. It was strongly implied in 23 that Alto stayed with her because of kindness. Not pity, but kindness. Sheryl was too conscious of letting Alto get near her blood. To say they kissed in 22 is arguably possible but to say they had sex is in the realm of delusion. Anyone want to poke fun at the 'salute'?

The unresolved triangle didn't keep me from giving the whole Macross Frontier 10/10. It was a fun ride. Sheryl may had more screentime than Ranka in 24, but it doesn't really feel like Ranka was put in the backburner in exchange. Ever since Ranka left in 21, she's the subject of everyone and we got a lot more from her memories and the outcome of her journey during those times. Between her and Sheryl, Ranka had more exposure overall. That's also why I feel no dissatisfaction from the series. One of the reasons I enjoyed this was because Ranka's story interests me. Not only because of her romance with Alto, but also because of the Vajra, her glowing abdomen, and the 117th research fleet.

There's also the subject of 'communication' and how a simple misunderstanding can lead to one of your nightmares. Michael's death was frustrating in all aspects but that's what makes it appealing. The frustration of "coulda" "woulda" "shoulda" reaches out of the screen and is able to get you.

[Major Focker]

Ok, just for fun, and without taking sides on the "did they or didn't they?" debate:

On one side... avoiding a possible infection from a virus that takes a long time to really have a fatal effect, is not actually fatal until it reaches the brain, curable before it reaches the brain, and treatable even after it does. and when it does reach the brain, you get some special fold powers in the meantime.

On the other side... sex with sheryl.

...

One happy meal number # 2 please.

and a cathy on the side please

[magnuskn]

I don't think it's an 'opinion' that Alto and Sheryl didn't have sex. It's a fact. Sheryl has a bodily fluid transmitted disease. Alto will be infected by now but there were no signs that he was suffering the same thing as Sheryl. It was strongly implied in 23 that Alto stayed with her because of kindness. Not pity, but kindness. Sheryl was too conscious of letting Alto get near her blood. To say they kissed in 22 is arguably possible but to say they had sex is in the realm of delusion. Anyone want to poke fun at the 'salute'?

That´s a lot of delusional Japanese fans, then.

Edited October 6, 2008 by magnuskn

[-Snowblind-]

That´s a lot of delusional Japanese fans, then.

As opposed a lot of sex-obsessed western fans...?

Nothing happened.... deal.

[magnuskn]

As opposed a lot of sex-obsessed western fans...?

Nothing happened.... deal.

Actually, I meant that a lot of the Japanese fans thought that they made love. ^^

[wolfx]

Actually, I meant that a lot of the Japanese fans thought that they made love. ^^

And that reinforces your argument how? Are 10 gaijins worth the opinion of 1 japanese or something?

Where do you get this statistic anyway?

[Radd]

Wow. This is still going on?

[bandit29]

I watched the first 10 episodes of Macross Frontier over the weekend...pretty good for the most part..the love triangle ...Kawamori has got to come up with better/new ways to create conflict among characters..I know it's a Macross staple and this is the 25th anniversary show..but still. However, the mech porn in this series is great. Especially for a TV series.

Edited October 6, 2008 by dejr8bud

[magnuskn]

And that reinforces your argument how? Are 10 gaijins worth the opinion of 1 japanese or something?

Where do you get this statistic anyway?

Tak, from the Suki boards, who is active on the Japanese BBS.

And, honestly, let´s drop it, I don´t want to get yelled at again by random people. I gots my opinion of it, you gots yours, everybody can be happy.

[wolfx]

edit: bleh why do i even bother.

Carry on.

Edited October 6, 2008 by wolfx

[magnuskn]

Then you shouldn't have asked for other's opinions if this is how you wanna "i gots my opinion of it, you gots yours, everybody can be happy".

You asked, I simply provided, as did many other ppl. You have not replied to my replies, so i assume you don't find those to your liking either. Oh well.

Quite honestly, I find most parts of your replies to be unnecessarily baiting. And, y'know, since some people were annoyed and you got that ( a bit hypocritical ) signature, I try to limit my shipping tendencies.

And I find the topic of "Did they sleep together" to be a bit different from my question "How exactly was the triangle reset?". Not to mention that I did respond to Gubaba and VF-25 Messiah, who were, besides Final Vegeta, the only ones who even tried to get into my point. Final Vegeta is another guy with whom I don´t get along so well, so I concentrated on the parts of his post which I supposed weren´t going to descend into a finger-pointing match.

[Final Vegeta]

Well, I prefer sticking up for yourself and others, so haragei ain´t my cup of tea. I am not even sure that SK is praising that concept as something admirable, it rather seems that he just presents it as a valid alternative to individualism. At first glance at least, I cannot see praise towards the Vajra as a better alternative to how we live.

Yet the Vajra are alive and Grace kicked the bucket.

In Macross Frontier there is a conceptual symmetry between a head collective (implant network) and a belly collective (Vajra). If the Vajra are the haragei, the implant network is the internet. These are two styles of comunication, the old and the new.

The whole show in fact seems to dwell in the contraposition between the old and the new: haragei and internet, kabuki and idol, human and cyborg, old series and new series. This appears to be the frontier in the title.

Coming back to my point, conflicts between "heads" results in arguments, yet by arguing a lot on internet you'll learn you don't necessarily gain friends with this. Brera still feels lonely even being connected to Grace. True bonds are not born with the head.

"Because we're alone we love someone". The purpose of love is to overcome loneliness. If you overcome loneliness by other methods (ie: implant network), love is not needed. "If you think, you'll never bloom". As you can see, there is coherence on all levels.

FV

[magnuskn]

Yet the Vajra are alive and Grace kicked the bucket.

In Macross Frontier there is a conceptual symmetry between a head collective (implant network) and a belly collective (Vajra). If the Vajra are the haragei, the implant network is the internet. These are two styles of comunication, the old and the new.

The whole show in fact seems to dwell in the contraposition between the old and the new: haragei and internet, kabuki and idol, human and cyborg, old series and new series. This appears to be the frontier in the title.

Coming back to my point, conflicts between "heads" results in arguments, yet by arguing a lot on internet you'll learn you don't necessarily gain friends with this. Brera still feels lonely even being connected to Grace. True bonds are not born with the head.

"Because we're alone we love someone". The purpose of love is to overcome loneliness. If you overcome loneliness by other methods (ie: implant network), love is not needed. "If you think, you'll never bloom". As you can see, there is coherence on all levels.

FV

Now that is a nice philosophical reply. As someone who likes to discuss analytically, if possible, I mostly prefer the "head" style of discussion, but I have at least one friend with whom I share a understanding of things on an deeper spiritual level. So I can relate to both sides of view.

[adrianop]

Wow. This is still going on?

Some people just can't stop and want to force it that its Sheryl. It would be refreshing to get some hardcore Ranka shipper views this time around. I havent seen any on this board though.

[MisaForever]

Some people just can't stop and want to force it that its Sheryl. It would be refreshing to get some hardcore Ranka-relationship-lovers' views this time around. I havent seen any on this board though.

Fixed

[aerocombatpilot]

Some people just can't stop and want to force it that its Sheryl. It would be refreshing to get some hardcore Ranka shipper views this time around. I havent seen any on this board though.

ARE YOU KIDDING? If you stick up for Ranka around here they take you out!!!

[shan]

ARE YOU KIDDING? If you stick up for Ranka around here they take you out!!!

That's if you're in Animesuki. I stick up for Ranka and I'm quite convinced that Alto has been in love with her all this time (but was only playing dense) and I can back it up, but why waste any time? Kawamori had trolled us to no return so I doubt any kind of persuasion will convince anyone which girl Alto leaned more. Forget it.

What will happen to this board now? Are we going to hibernate soon until the movie airs which is more likely next year?

[wolfx]

The afterglow should last for at least a few months at least. Besides the forum has always been active without an anime series for 5-6 years.

Final Vegeta: Interesting deconstruction of the series, but i don't get the haragei thing. I never got around to asking it so i'll ask it now.....The vajra does not have individualism so hardly they have a conformist mindset nor have any concept of haragei. Are you saying they are practicing haragei because they have virus in their bellies literally?

[adrianop]

ARE YOU KIDDING? If you stick up for Ranka around here they take you out!!!

I noticed. They even put Mac Fanboys to shame. Why are Pro-ranka people less hostile though?

What will happen to this board now? Are we going to hibernate soon until the movie airs which is more likely next year?

What wolfx said. Probably the toys section would be abit more active when tv series/movies are done.

[sketchley]

Maybe they have less to fear than the other side?*

Or maybe it has to do with the type of person that Ranka and Sheryl appeal to. I'm no psychologist, but I feel that Sheryl being more edgy, but a lot more risky; whereas Ranka is a lot safer?

* I'm pro neither side! Aruto got his first love - the sky! BWahahaha!

I noticed. They even put Mac Fanboys to shame. Why are Pro-ranka people less hostile though?

(...)

[magnuskn]

Maybe they have less to fear than the other side?*

Or maybe it has to do with the type of person that Ranka and Sheryl appeal to. I'm no psychologist, but I feel that Sheryl being more edgy, but a lot more risky; whereas Ranka is a lot safer?

A surprising number of completely fanatical Ranka shippers seem to have dislexia. Well, two of the four super-fanatics I´ve seen on Suki and RC.

[Strumvogel]

Personally I think all this is a direct result of Frontier withdrawal. We're well over an entire week without Frontier proper and people are starting to get unhinged and de-evolving into a quviering mass...

Proof that Macross is indeed a drug...

So, anyone know where to get more?

Edited October 7, 2008 by Strumvogel

[dreamweaver13]

Personally I think all this is a direct result of Frontier withdrawal. We're well over an entire week without Frontier proper and people are starting to get unhinged in de-evolving into a quviering mass...

Proof that Macross is indeed a drug...

So, anyone know where to get more?

would re-watching the entire thing count?

or is that below our drug addiction threshold already?

Edited October 7, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[Strumvogel]

would re-watching the entire thing count?

or is that below our drug addiction threshold already?

Most probably. you're atleast going to need to re-watch it twice to get the same original effect.

To be on the safe side probably want to throw in Plus and Zero to help pad it out.

[Gubaba]

would re-watching the entire thing count?

or is that below our drug addiction threshold already?

REWATCH EVERYTHING MACROSS!!!

(That's what I'm doing, at least.)

And I'm thinking of becoming a hardcore Ranka-shipper just to see what it's like. キラッ☆!!

[wolfx]

would re-watching the entire thing count?

or is that below our drug addiction threshold already?

Or maybe reading consistently the macross frontier manga might help since it has added scenes not shown in the anime.

[dreamweaver13]

REWATCH EVERYTHING MACROSS!!!

(That's what I'm doing, at least.)

And I'm thinking of becoming a hardcore Ranka-shipper just to see what it's like. キラッ☆!!

i already did a full SDFM/DYRL marathon sometime between eps 14 and 15 of Frontier. i'll probably do another one after my MF and M0 marathon. then i'll o Macross Plus.

i don't think i have the energy to re-watch M7 all over again, though.

[adrianop]

i already did a full SDFM/DYRL marathon sometime between eps 14 and 15 of Frontier. i'll probably do another one after my MF and M0 marathon. then i'll o Macross Plus.

i don't think i have the energy to re-watch M7 all over again, though.

Huwhaat? No BOMBA love? Ill be doing an M7 Rewatch after my MF Marathon just for the lulz.

[Strumvogel]

Or maybe reading consistently the macross frontier manga might help since it has added scenes not shown in the anime.

That is one way since the story is turning out somewhat different, atleast that's what I'm getting from the current chapter anyway.

The story is either coming to a climax right now or it's just developing a dramatic tempo. It should be clearer by the next chapter.

[Final Vegeta]

Now that is a nice philosophical reply. As someone who likes to discuss analytically, if possible, I mostly prefer the "head" style of discussion, but I have at least one friend with whom I share a understanding of things on an deeper spiritual level. So I can relate to both sides of view.

Personally, I think that Alto's maxim applies even to logic. Logic has its limits (ie: induction. You'd think all swans are white if you didn't know there are black swans in Australia), therefore it can tell you what is wrong, but there is not always certainty about what is right. Logic therefore can be deliberately tampered to reach a particular conclusion that is advantageous to the reasoner.

The drawback of perfect logic though is that it makes you sad. Can't win 'em all

Final Vegeta: Interesting deconstruction of the series, but i don't get the haragei thing. I never got around to asking it so i'll ask it now.....The vajra does not have individualism so hardly they have a conformist mindset nor have any concept of haragei. Are you saying they are practicing haragei because they have virus in their bellies literally?

Haragei means several different things in Japanese. Kawamori obviously expressed haragei as a concept both figurative and concrete (after all hara means literally "belly").

So yes, it's all because of a bacterium, and yet it works like the true haragei, a comunication without words or gestures. It's not a concept but a sense, and it's not a mindset but an absence of mindsets. It's one of those Zen things. The more I think about it, the less I am able to describe

FV

[kanedaestes]

So i am currently rewatching the series and maybe all of our questions are already answered or rather most of them. If Sheryl was where her rings when she got to Frontier and started singing then through the fold quartz the vajra are sure to follow hence how Grace led them there to Frontier. Grace may not have been aware of the true reason of the vajra following the fold quartz but knew they would. Then once they get to frontier, Ranka just starts bringing attention to herself with singing and every thing as she said eventually they were trying to rescue her. This may have already all been said since i haven't had to time to go through all the various pages on the subject but i think after rewatching the series especially since i know how it ends i can see everything coming together properly.

[TehPW]

I spent a month out at sea waiting to see the last two episodes.... and i really need pants....

obviously the DVD's will be worth to masturbate to, story wise. The triangle is open ended, something not quite done before (ok maybe how M7 ended left lots of honest reasons for the M7 OVA's but really. they made those for $), reasons for a sequel of sorts.

doesn't look like a second season is to be had but....

glorious. 10, 10, 10. all my bitching aside, i give the series a 10 (then again, i gave M+ 10's too)

of course.... does this mean Alto is gonna be a polygamist?

Edited October 10, 2008 by pensives_wetness

[d3v]

of course.... does this mean Alto is gonna be a polygamist?

Does it count when the relationship involves three girls... uh wait, you mean Alto's a... yeah I knew that, I was just... never mind.