Macross Frontier Series Discussion Thread *READ 1st Post*

[hobbes221]

All in all I think that this was a great series as is, would love for more in any form but if this is all I get, I'm good. As to all that was left unsaid and unfinished I think that that's life and that's Macross. And loved all the things that made me stop and smile thinking back to the other Macross series.

I really don't mind that there are many things left open or unfinished at the end. I feel that by not knowing everything about a story it makes me feel a little more in the story as to having a God's eye view of everything, even at the end. This will sound weird but I have always read very fast and finish books off in no time so every so often when I'm reading something by Tom Clancy or someone like that I will skip any parts that are from the antagonist side of the story, it makes things a little different that way. (In the end I go back and reread the whole thing just because anyways.)

[Aegis!]

Wow, what a ride...

I think for the most part this was quite a pleasant experience for myself, Frontier certainly lives up to the Macross name. I loved the animation from start to finish, the music (although not my preferred style) was really good and the characters development was thoroughly enjoyable. The Valks were awesome too of course

Having said that, Frontier went into a totally different route from what I initially expected (this isn't a bad thing at all though). At first sight I thought the Vajra plot would have an even development throughout the series, but then they pretty much kept everything secret up until the very last episodes, that certainly felt like a weak effort to me. They never fully explained (except for Grace last speech) what was the connection between the Vajra and Protoculture. I kept asking myself how did the Vajra connect with everything we've seen in past series ? I personally felt this part of the plot felt a little improvised or rather unexplored.

Then there's the whole incongruence in technology, many things felt awkward for a story set in the 2050's-60's, many of the technology seen in Plus is absent from Frontier even in the smallest details i.e Ranka's/Sheryl's concert tickets vs Sharon Apple's holographic wrist bands. The Valkyries themselves are another good example (yes, I know Kawamori wanted to mirror the utilitarian and less hero-like qualities of SDF valks). Many of the features of Frontier valks are evolutionary not revolutionary in many respects. I (as many here) expected some kind of development in Fold technology, like internal fold engines for valks, but all they did was stick some crystals in there and extend the fold capacity. The Ghosts, for instance, never did anything spectacular until the very end, like they were unnecessarily dumbed down by the Judah System, and that philosophy can be applied to almost everything in Frontier (Destroids anyone?).

Regardless of all this stuff I still liked pretty much everything that was shown in the series, I applaud the extended use of the koenig and the new Q-rau's as well as the different types of SMS valks. The VF-25 is a really elegant bird and the all-modes GBP armor is a great bonus, the VF-27 is just awesome in all regards . All the little easter eggs and neat little hints at old fans were great, I jumped like a little girl whenever I saw a reference to any of the past series. All in all I think I ended up getting used to all these things because the series was so brilliantly developed. This was, by far, the most detailed and well produced anime series I've seen in my life.

The one thing that I truly never got used to were the character's design and the over the top/ fanservice moments, I guess I expected a more serious tone from my first impressions of the series. hahah yeah i know, I'm nitpicky Maybe it's just that for something so great as frontier I kind of wished everything was perfect.

Good work Big K, good work. 9/10

[Shouta]

I gave the show a 6/10.

- CG in the show is fantastic, probably the best I've seen in an anime thus far. The regular animation is wildly inconsistent and outright terrible at times. It looks a little better watching it directly form the feed on an HDTV but it's still all over the place.

- To me, the vocal music was incredibly underwhelming save for a few songs. To be fair though, it's hard to follow up Macross 7 in that regard.

- Directing was good for scenes sprinkled throughout the show. Action was choreographed well to be frenetic but easy to follow. On the other hand quite a few of the "day to day" scenes are fairly dreadful at times.

- Overall plotting was really weak. Too much time spent doing things that didn't really advance the story or characters in meaningful ways. The mystery plays out too quickly and a number of things occur just to fill in the void. The premise and actual story aren't too bad but it's not handled very well. The character conflict was really awful. I mean, I can take bad plots, I love Macross 7 and that had a ridiculously awful plot but it was backed by awesome day to day activities in the lives of the characters. Frontier doesn't even have that.

- The cast and the development they had was really weak sans Sheryl, Michel, and Ozma (although Ozma had like no development). The basic cast layout is good but so little is done with them. Alto has a good start but his internal conflict and resolution was weak. They had some scenes that could've proved to have been really good conflicts/relationships in the show if they had spent the time to build them, Ozma and Alto come to mind for me.

- This goes with the characters but god, Ranka. A character that starts off slightly irritating but cute turns into a show-breaking tyrant. Whining, crying, and sulking her entire way through the show making almost every scene she's in painful to watch. Her attitudes and actions just... argh. I know she's meant to be the opposite of Sheryl (who's a bit aggressive, strong-willed etc) but what they chose wasn't exactlly a good idea. I guess it runs in the family as well because Brera was just awful. Sure, he didn't have any development but did they really have to include him as the rival and pseudo-bad guy? He just adds nothing to the show at all.

I think the thing that frustrated me the most about the show was that it had so much potential but it failed to coalesce. All the elements are there but a bunch of wrong turns just lead it to the wrong place. At least they got the mecha pr0n down perfectly.

[wolfx]

I think I'd go with the reference to DYRL. Misa somehow was able to decipher the notes and lyrics and then even know the song was a commercial one. There's a vague mysticism about songs in Macross. I already mentioned a Japanese term, haragei (acting from the belly), which means "comunication without words or gestures", that is, emotional comunication. From the emotions put in the song, one can learn what was a song about, even if the song was not even heard. It's highly poetic, although it doesn't make sense

FV

Actually for DYRL?, the music box melody was all they had. So they written the lyrics in.

And sometimes, the melody can tell you what its trying to convey, and in this case they somehow deciphered it to be an old Zentraedi love song. Well it certainly didn't sound like a war song.

[Shaka_Z]

All in all I think that this was a great series as is, would love for more in any form but if this is all I get, I'm good. As to all that was left unsaid and unfinished I think that that's life and that's Macross. And loved all the things that made me stop and smile thinking back to the other Macross series.

I really don't mind that there are many things left open or unfinished at the end. I feel that by not knowing everything about a story it makes me feel a little more in the story as to having a God's eye view of everything, even at the end. This will sound weird but I have always read very fast and finish books off in no time so every so often when I'm reading something by Tom Clancy or someone like that I will skip any parts that are from the antagonist side of the story, it makes things a little different that way. (In the end I go back and reread the whole thing just because anyways.)

heh... what's your personal best for a Clancy novel... say 'Red Storm Rising'? iirc I got through it cover to cover in about 3 days...

[hobbes221]

heh... what's your personal best for a Clancy novel... say 'Red Storm Rising'? iirc I got through it cover to cover in about 3 days...

I think I did 'Red Storm Rising' in about five days just reading at school, and 'Without Remorse' in about three days as well, both full reads, nothing skipped.

[Sergorn]

Actually for DYRL?, the music box melody was all they had. So they written the lyrics in.

Hum not quite. At first they only have the melody, and they mention their best lyricists are trying to write lyrics for it. But after that we have Misa actually decifering the lyrics from the protoculture plate right before going to see Hikaru.

-Sergorn

[wolfx]

Hum not quite. At first they only have the melody, and they mention their best lyricists are trying to write lyrics for it. But after that we have Misa actually decifering the lyrics from the protoculture plate right before going to see Hikaru.

-Sergorn

Now that you mention it I remembered something like that. You're probably right.

[Final Vegeta]

I've got a new idea: the Vajra sang Aimo to the 117th research fleet. The reason behind this is simple, they wanted to see if anyone wanted to mate It appears cheesy but it isn't. They use this song with other Vajra swarms, it can also be a mean to recognize each other as Vajra.

FV

[azrael]

Guess it's my turn at this.

Animation: 8

The animation inconsistencies bugged me but it still looked good (-1). The CG worked out really well for this show (+1). Being a TV show let me be a bit more lenient but then again, being a TV show means money can't be poured in every episode unless there was some major backers (that instantly made it a 9 to start). And since this being pumped out weekly of which mistakes have to be corrected in the DVD/Blu-Ray, that did factor into it (-1).

Voice Acting/Actors: 6

None of the this really jumped out at me (-5). Megumi Nakajima was decent for a first-timer (+1).

Script/Story/Plot: 7

I wanted it to be bit longer (-1). Like Shouta said, one thing I liked about M7 was the day-to-day view of the characters. The format didn't allow for this and I do wish it would have. (-1). I do wish that more time was spent on things like Cathy and Ozma digging into Grace and Leon's conspiracy, more about 117th fleet or Macross Galaxy, instead of getting only glimpses (-1).

Directing/Editing:8

Action sequences were well done. I think some of the character moments could have been handled a bit better. I didn't like the clip-show. As informative as the clip show was, it was still a clip-show. There's a point where fan-service became a bit unnecessary. The last episode did feel a little crammed but I would say it worked.

Characters: 7

Good but nothing that stood out (-3). I would have liked to see more day-to-day activities ("Miss Macross" was one of my favorite episodes). I didn't find Ranka annoying or Alto dense (Hikaru is the Girl-dense-King) or etc.. But then again, I wanted to see some more development among the characters.

Marketing: 9

Things have been selling out. That's a good sign. But that's a problem, things sold out (I'm looking at you 1/72 model). And we got a movie coming.

Music: 8

Hated "Trianguler". Maaya Sakamoto's voice just doesn't work for me. "Lion" was a better song but the animation usage (compared to the first OP theme) could have been better. The Ranka songs were cute at first but not really something I would really like to listen to all the time. It wasn't until "Ao no Eteru (Blue Ether)", that I really liked Megumi's voice. I liked how that song turned out. Sheryl's were another mixed bag. I absolutely hated her "live" version of "What 'bout My Star?". I think Ms. Kanno went synthesizer crazy on that. I'm glad they only played it once. "Infinity" was put to good use. "Northern Cross" as the ending theme was okay but I like the animation and feel to "Diamond Crevasse" more. One thing I really liked about Fire Bomber tracks is how each part stands out. I can hear each instrument and each vocalist. I didn't get that same feeling with Frontier]/i]

I can still listen to Fire Bomber today and can still be used in Macross. "Goodbye Sister" really put that quality about Fire Bomber tracks to good use and I'm glad they did it because it worked really well. I don't know if I can say the same about Frontier's songs, overall.

Average: ~7.5 (rounded to

I would have preferred a bit more character work to cement a few things but I was, overall, very satisfied with this production.

[DHX]

something that occurred to me.

did grace o'conner and the remnants of the 117th fleet take over macross galaxy's upper echelon,

or were the higher ups alread corrupt before the 117th came on board and it was a simple matter of persuading them of the merits of grace's plan?

Edited September 29, 2008 by DHX

[Duke Togo]

something that occurred to me.

did grace o'conner and the remnants of the 117th fleet take over macross galaxy's upper echelon,

or were the higher ups alread corrupt before the 117th came on board and it was a simple matter of persuading them of the merits of grace's plan?

There were quite a few survivors of the 117th fleet aboard the Frontier. I'm not even sure if the other "voices" of Galaxy Anonymous were from people who had been aboard the 117th.

[dreamweaver13]

Haha. i just KNEW i couldn't be objective about this after watching ep 25. so i voted a 10!

nah, actually i paused for a while before giving this vote. but even at the end of my soul-searching (all 5 seconds of it), i still clicked on the 10. sure it had some flaws, some loose ends, which would have rendered teh series "imperfect", technically speaking, and thus not warranting a 10.

BUT... i'd like to keep it simple. what were my expectations about this series when it started, and vis-a-vis the original SDFM? i already knew that it would never replace SDFM in my heart, no matter how good it was (let's face it, nothing will). so the best expectation I had was that it would be the best macross series after SDFM.

and at the end of the day, did any of these flaws or loose ends or shortcomings lessen the way MF met (and exceeded) my expectations?

NOT at all. i wouldn't have it played any other way.

So in my mind, despite it's imperfections, it IS perfect. As coach Gary Gaines said, "Can you live in that moment as best you can, with clear eyes, and love in your heart, with joy in your heart? If you can do that gentleman - you're perfect!"

[Beltane70]

Now that you mention it I remembered something like that. You're probably right.

Guess it's been a while since you've seen DYRL, huh, wolfx?

[d3v]

I just remembered how early on, some people were complaining about how the series didn't have an interesting villain since the Vajra couldn't speak, then we got Grace - IMO one of the best villains in a show in recent memory.

[dreamweaver13]

I just remembered how early on, some people were complaining about how the series didn't have an interesting villain since the Vajra couldn't speak, then we got Grace - IMO one of the best villains in a show in recent memory.

actually, yeah. not just a good "macross" villain, but a great villain in general. first of all, an unexpected villain. and when she revealed her true colors, she was evil, but not over the top. and hot, to boot.

[Gubaba]

actually, yeah. not just a good "macross" villain, but a great villain in general. first of all, an unexpected villain. and when she revealed her true colors, she was evil, but not over the top. and hot, to boot.

Grace was truly awesome, and I totally didn't expect her to turn out to be evil...I mean, yes, there are no useless characters, but she seemed to have a real purpose BEFORE she was revealed as the villainess...she held Sheryl's leash.

But I have to say that one of things that is inseparable with Frontier for me are all the little Macrossworld in-jokes that sprang from it....like Ranka being a FAST Pack Sound Booster (and MisaForsaken's continual asking where that started)...or the "STUPID LUCA!" comments that ran all through the episode 7 thread...or the constant cheers of BOMBAA!! throughout the episode 17 thread...all the weird and awesome GIFs that were lovingly crafted by our members.

Good times, guys. I'll miss our weekly pow-wow.

[David Hingtgen]

I thought in the "burning" scenes set on Gallia 4 etc that Grace looked like a cyborg (mainly how her left eye was drawn more than the injuries) so I think she was an "early adopter" of the technology. So her plans (and Galaxy's) could go WAY back.

[Graham]

Why I think Macross Frontier is so great: -

1. The best CG mecha animation of any TV series, OVA or movie ever!

2. Some of the best, if not the best mecha fights ever.

3. Interesting story that keopt me hooked throughout all 25 episodes.

4. Gorgeous mecha designs (Gundam 00 and Code Geass, I laugh at your silly looking mecha).

5. Not clichéd. They avoided most of the typical anime clichés, such as the young untrained boy immediately piloting the hero mecha. Alto was already a trainee pilot and remember he got bitch slapped by Ozma the first time he asked to pilot. Thankfully, we also avoided the cliché of the older sempai dying. Ozma lives and gets Cathy as well! Yay!

6. Not predictable. I genuinely didn’t know what was going to happen during the series and judging by the amount of speculation on this board, neither did many of you.

7. Exciting. Many episodes kept me on the edge of my seat and sent shivers down my spine on many occasions.

8. Fantastic background music – Well, it’s Yoko Kanno, so what do you expect! The Frontier BGM is some of the most listened to tracks on my MP3 player.

9. Great songs. Again, I really love the Sheryl and Ranka songs. Lion is probably my favorite song at the moment.

10. Likeable, interesting characters. Based on his character design, many people expected Alto to be your typical angsty emo teen anime hero, but he wasn’t at all. Surprisingly little angst at all. Most of the time, he just got on and did the job with no whining. A refreshing change. I definitely was able to relate to the characters more than in most other anime and felt hey were more believable as people.

11. Beautiful, highly detailed background animation.

12. An interesting, mysterious and frightening enemy.

The only negative I can find about some episodes was the inconsistent quality of the character art. While generally good to excellent in most episodes, there were a couple of episodes that were real stinkers in terms of character art.

Graham

[d3v]

Grace was truly awesome, and I totally didn't expect her to turn out to be evil...I mean, yes, there are no useless characters, but she seemed to have a real purpose BEFORE she was revealed as the villainess...she held Sheryl's leash.

But I have to say that one of things that is inseparable with Frontier for me are all the little Macrossworld in-jokes that sprang from it....like Ranka being a FAST Pack Sound Booster (and MisaForsaken's continual asking where that started)...or the "STUPID LUCA!" comments that ran all through the episode 7 thread...or the constant cheers of BOMBAA!! throughout the episode 17 thread...all the weird and awesome GIFs that were lovingly crafted by our members.

Good times, guys. I'll miss our weekly pow-wow.

Funny, it turned out that she wasn't a FAST Pack at all, but rather a wing.

[Nexx Stalker]

Why I think Macross Frontier is so great: -

5. Not clichéd. They avoided most of the typical anime clichés, such as the young untrained boy immediately piloting the hero mecha. Alto was already a trainee pilot and remember he got bitch slapped by Ozma the first time he asked to pilot. Thankfully, we also avoided the cliché of the older sempai dying. Ozma lives and gets Cathy as well! Yay!

9. Great songs. Again, I really love the Sheryl and Ranka songs. Lion is probably my favorite song at the moment.

I agree on all you said except point 5 and 9. As for the songs, I liked them so much more than Minmai's (it wasn't difficult: I hate them), but so much less than Fire Bomber's. As for the cliché thing, well, Ranka's character from mid series on is just that, a cliché. Not to mention the excessive and unnecessary fan-service of the first half of the series. And Klan, oh god, Klan!

Despite all this, the series was fantastic! And I wholeheartedly agree on this: best mecha action scenes ever in an anime show.

[MisaForever]

Why I think Macross Frontier is so great: -

1. The best CG mecha animation of any TV series, OVA or movie ever!

2. Some of the best, if not the best mecha fights ever.

3. Interesting story that keopt me hooked throughout all 25 episodes.

4. Gorgeous mecha designs (Gundam 00 and Code Geass, I laugh at your silly looking mecha).

5. Not clichéd. They avoided most of the typical anime clichés, such as the young untrained boy immediately piloting the hero mecha. Alto was already a trainee pilot and remember he got bitch slapped by Ozma the first time he asked to pilot. Thankfully, we also avoided the cliché of the older sempai dying. Ozma lives and gets Cathy as well! Yay!

6. Not predictable. I genuinely didn’t know what was going to happen during the series and judging by the amount of speculation on this board, neither did many of you.

7. Exciting. Many episodes kept me on the edge of my seat and sent shivers down my spine on many occasions.

8. Fantastic background music – Well, it’s Yoko Kanno, so what do you expect! The Frontier BGM is some of the most listened to tracks on my MP3 player.

9. Great songs. Again, I really love the Sheryl and Ranka songs. Lion is probably my favorite song at the moment.

10. Likeable, interesting characters. Based on his character design, many people expected Alto to be your typical angsty emo teen anime hero, but he wasn’t at all. Surprisingly little angst at all. Most of the time, he just got on and did the job with no whining. A refreshing change. I definitely was able to relate to the characters more than in most other anime and felt hey were more believable as people.

11. Beautiful, highly detailed background animation.

12. An interesting, mysterious and frightening enemy.

The only negative I can find about some episodes was the inconsistent quality of the character art. While generally good to excellent in most episodes, there were a couple of episodes that were real stinkers in terms of character art.

Graham

Very nicely done, Graham. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[DHX]

just how big an IDOL is Sheryl Nome?

i know she's called the Galactic nymph but my first thought was that may be more to do with her coming from the Galaxy fleet. and her fame on the frontier was because how close the two fleets were.

but then i Remember Firebomber which reached as far as the macross frontier.

so how famous was sheryl

[Duke Togo]

just how big an IDOL is Sheryl Nome?

i know she's called the Galactic nymph but my first thought was that may be more to do with her coming from the Galaxy fleet. and her fame on the frontier was because how close the two fleets were.

but then i Remember Firebomber which reached as far as the macross frontier.

so how famous was sheryl

Frontier was at the end of a 7 1/2 month tour, I would guess to other colonies and fleets. She sounds pretty big.

[Nexx Stalker]

"Nothing can beat Fire Bomber". Ozma Lee

[Mark Nguyen]

To Ozma - dude, Fire Bomber had their last live concert twelve YEARS ago. Get over it!

Mark

[Nexx Stalker]

To Ozma - dude, Fire Bomber had their last live concert twelve YEARS ago. Get over it!

Mark

Never !

[dizman]

The power of constantly listening to Fire Bombers song's saved Ozma's life in the end. It was the only way to neutralize the dreaded pineapple cake/salad curse! Oh and for my rating of the series, right now its a 7 but after watching the series again I'll give my final verdict.

[Valkyrie addict]

hmm...got a question, on the final episode were Ranka is explaining the Vajra

don't anyone think the Vajra reason for attacking is rather silly... "they didn't understand one as individuals" so they started killing and destroying everyone to 'rescue' her... uhhh... uhhh... uhhh... really?

[Duke Togo]

hmm...got a question, on the final episode were Ranka is explaining the Vajra

don't anyone think the Vajra reason for attacking is rather silly... "they didn't understand one as individuals" so they started killing and destroying everyone to 'rescue' her... uhhh... uhhh... uhhh... really?

Yes. As I've said before, there are some pretty big plot holes in this series, mostly the "how and why" all of it happened.

[eugimon]

I agree on all you said except point 5 and 9. As for the songs, I liked them so much more than Minmai's (it wasn't difficult: I hate them), but so much less than Fire Bomber's. As for the cliché thing, well, Ranka's character from mid series on is just that, a cliché. Not to mention the excessive and unnecessary fan-service of the first half of the series. And Klan, oh god, Klan!

Despite all this, the series was fantastic! And I wholeheartedly agree on this: best mecha action scenes ever in an anime show.

excessive fan service? Compared to what? gundam 00, Mac II, gunbuster, evangelion, code geass... all have WAY more fanservice compared to MF.

hmm...got a question, on the final episode were Ranka is explaining the Vajra

don't anyone think the Vajra reason for attacking is rather silly... "they didn't understand one as individuals" so they started killing and destroying everyone to 'rescue' her... uhhh... uhhh... uhhh... really?

Nope, not silly at all. A perfect example of xenophobia and ethnocentricism. The vajra don't comprehend the idea of "many" and they see part of themselves captured by the unknown, so they react... not that hard to understand.

Edited October 1, 2008 by eugimon

[Duke Togo]

Nope, not silly at all. A perfect example of xenophobia and ethnocentricism. The vajra don't comprehend the idea of "many" and they see part of themselves captured by the unknown, so they react... not that hard to understand.

Except they were apparently making nice with Mao and company before Grace did something to piss them off.

[eugimon]

Except they were apparently making nice with Mao and company before Grace did something to piss them off.

which makes it even plausible, they were making nice with an alien species and then they go and kidnap part of its collective consciousness.... why wouldn't it be mad?

[Final Vegeta]

don't anyone think the Vajra reason for attacking is rather silly... "they didn't understand one as individuals" so they started killing and destroying everyone to 'rescue' her... uhhh... uhhh... uhhh... really?

When someone is held hostage, you deal with the kidnappers first.

FV

[Macross007]

The power of constantly listening to Fire Bombers song's saved Ozma's life in the end. It was the only way to neutralize the dreaded pineapple cake/salad curse! Oh and for my rating of the series, right now its a 7 but after watching the series again I'll give my final verdict.

Macross 7 will save your heart, Macross 7 will save this world, Macross 7 will even save you from a pineapple salad curse ...

Edited October 1, 2008 by Macross007