Macross Frontier Series Discussion Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Roy Focker]

I'll just steal Duke's post and edit it for my own use

The animation was inconsistent, and on a few occasions quite poor. With a few exceptions (Sheryl, Alto, Ranka), the character designs were bland to horrible. The story comes off as very convoluted and unfocused. Its target audience was a bit younger than I would have liked. Plus had fan service galore to keep all sorts of perverts happy. However, the mecha action was top notch and the music was solid. And as convoluted as the story was, for the most part, it kept your attention.

In the end, the story is left unresolved. And I'm not talking about the "triangle". I guess we'll have to wait and see. If I had my choice, I'd give Frontier an incomplete, but for now I'll just give the TV series itself a 4.

[MisaForever]

I don't think they want a totally blind fanboy review.

Blind? I'm hardly blind, sir. I just know how to enjoy things unlike some of you.

[Duke Togo]

I am just going to have to rewatch the entire thing.

[eugimon]

I don't mind that they didn't fill in all the blanks on galaxy or the vajra. The story was about alto, ranka and sheryl and I think they resolved it. Alto finally chose for himself what he loved, his father accepted his decision. Ranka and Sheryl both came discover who they truly were. In this respect, Frontier was very much like SDF:M, where the series ended with lots of questions about the zentradi, protoculture and the supervision army unresolved.

And personally, I think it was made pretty clear who Alto chose.

I really enjoyed this series. I agree that it felt rushed at times and yeah, some episodes really stunk in terms of animation but overall, it told a great story and opened up the Macross universe to new stories while paying a loving homage to all the macross shows of past.

[Duke Togo]

Ok, so, how does Ranka know Aimo? How did she learn the song?

[VF-25 Messiah]

Ok, so, how does Ranka know Aimo? How did she learn the song?

Oh that's obvious. Ranshe. How Ranshe learned it? From the Vajra is my guess.

[kalvasflam]

Ok, so, how does Ranka know Aimo? How did she learn the song?

Better question is how exactly did Ranshe get her virus... it's not airborne, it's supposed to be passed through fluid exchange... And what was Aimo again? Some type of mating song?

as for Ranka, I'm sure she learned it from someone, or may be it's an inherited trait.

[Nexx Stalker]

Ok, so, how does Ranka know Aimo? How did she learn the song?

My fault. I left my Galactic Radio on while travelling in outher space.

Don't tell anyone...

[Nexx Stalker]

Better question is how exactly did Ranshe get her virus... it's not airborne, it's supposed to be passed through fluid exchange... And what was Aimo again? Some type of mating song?

Maybe she tried to mate with a Vajra?

Edited September 26, 2008 by Nexx Stalker

[Gubaba]

I gave it a nine, but I'm still enjoying the afterglow from the final episode...if I had waited a few days, well...I still probably would've given it a nine.

Whispo, I like your post. I enjoy hearing from people who got into Froniter first, and then went back and watched everything else. Makes me rather envious, in a way, since I had to wait for it all to come out in drips and drabs year by year.

But yeah, as a longtime Macross fan, I adored the show. While I agree with Togo that it was at heart a simple story made convoluted, it never ceased to be interesting and inventive. Like a lot of people here (I believe) it initially hooked me with the cute homages, but I kind of stopped looking for them by about episode six, as I started to get involved with the story for its own sake. And that, for me, is key: even if it hadn't been a Macross show, I would've loved it. The fact that it extends one of my favorite anime sagas is just icing on the cake.

The fact that (for the most part) the series looked gorgeous was nice, too. Some of the character animation was sub-par and a lot of scenes got re-used, but it never got to the point where it really bothered me.

I thought the writing was quite good, and I disagree with others that the pacing seemed off. But one of the reasons I got into anime way back when was for the sheer oddness of it; by which I mean if you watch an old-school '80s show (especially without subs), there's always a bit that seems to come out of nowhere and go nowhere, leaving you scratching your head wondering what that was all about. (A favorite example from Megazone 23: Yui attempting to sleep her way to the top.) One of the reasons I've been less than enthusiastic about more recent anime is that a lot of that strangeness gets ironed out (or maybe it's just because my Japanese is better, so there's less confusion on my part)...well, Frontier brought the weirdness back in a big way...episode 15's sing-off, Klan with FAST Packs, The final song battle...it's all sublimely strange and wonderful.

I look forward to the movie, and if (for whatever reason) Macross ends there, I'll still be satisfied.

[taksraven]

For what its worth, Macross Frontier managed to tick most of the boxes for what I wanted to see in a new Macross series. A very entertaining program with a LOT of mystery woven in to keep people guessing and interested.

I admit, I usually like programs that are much "darker" than this one, but there was a general celebratory atmosphere to the series that was totally appropriate. I think a more negative or neutral ending like Macross Zero would have wrecked this series. And it did have its "dark" moments.

A lot of people are now whining about this, that or the other but if you really hated it that much you should have switched off. I'll admit that I have had criticisms of the series myself, (problems with pacing, the varying destructive capabilities of the Vajra, etc), but I can see past these and appreciate the series now as a whole.

I think its fair to say that most of us have had a great time watching it and a good time on the forums discussing it.

At the end of the day I am NOT saying "Don't bag the show" but I am trying to point out that the series was meant to be a piece of entertainment that was fun. Don't take things TOO seriously.

Taksraven

[Tobi54]

I don't mind that they didn't fill in all the blanks on galaxy or the vajra. The story was about alto, ranka and sheryl and I think they resolved it. Alto finally chose for himself what he loved, his father accepted his decision. Ranka and Sheryl both came discover who they truly were. In this respect, Frontier was very much like SDF:M, where the series ended with lots of questions about the zentradi, protoculture and the supervision army unresolved.

And personally, I think it was made pretty clear who Alto chose.

I really enjoyed this series. I agree that it felt rushed at times and yeah, some episodes really stunk in terms of animation but overall, it told a great story and opened up the Macross universe to new stories while paying a loving homage to all the macross shows of past.

I couldnt agree more, it's not perfect, but pretty strong overall, I gave it a 9, I also feel the supporting cast could have used some more exposure, I think flipping priorities between OzmaxCathy with MichelxKlan would have made the series more interesting, IMO throughout the series the relationship between Cathy and Ozma got more screen time than MichelxKlan's, and since they killed off Michel, giving that relationship more attention would have paid off even more at the end.

General impressions of the entire series.

Gave it a 9, why? Because they were able to pull off a very hard balancing act, keeping old school fans happy while attracting a new generation, yes, some of the weaker part of the show come from this, but it needed to be done.

Opinions of the overall story, writing, plot devices, characters, character design, i.e., in-story elements, etc.

Good overall, pacing could have used some work, so did some characters, character designs were pretty good for the main ones while, good to average to poor for others.

Opinions on the staff, casting, marketing of the show, i.e. real life/behind the scenes, etc.

I think everything was spot on, from the female leads to the male ones, everything was very well done, and thought out I only have one gripe about the staff which I'll mention later, as far as marketing goes, I live in the US so, I'll go with what I've seen posted here, and I'd say it was as good as they could have done, sale numbers speak for themselves.

What could have the production staff done differently?

Secure Ichiro Itano as action choreographer, I think the battle scenes were excellent but Itano could have taken them to another level, I really hope they bring him in for the movie.

How would you rate the production staff, voice actors, animation, story, characters, etc.?

The proction staff did a great job, no complains there, so did the voice actors, the CG animation was hands down better than anything else shown on it's budget range, 2D animation could have used some more attention sometimes, which I hope they address in the movie, character wise, I found the lead too whiny at times, I think people liked him most when he was made fun off, IMO the audience should be cheering for him, not laughing at him, I honestly think they could have made him more likeable. Ranka could have used more work also, Sheryl was hands down the best character in the series, what a tough girl, this is the type of treatment Alto needed as a character.

Did the music work for the series? Could it have been better?

I dont think any anime series has gotten the type of treatment Macross Frontier got on the music department, ever, period. Of course some songs are better than others, but I dont see any way they could have done better, over half a million CD singles sold, not including the OST, 5 singles breaking the top 5, just WOW.

[Fade Rathnik]

Did the music work for the series? Could it have been better?

I dont think any anime series has gotten the type of treatment Macross Frontier got on the music department, ever, period. Of course some songs are better than others, but I dont see any way they could have done better, over half a million CD singles sold, not including the OST, 5 singles breaking the top 5, just WOW.

I agree with you but Yoko did a damn good job on Ghost in the Shell SAC. Oh and lets not forget M+.

[Gubaba]

I agree with you but Yoko did a damn good job on Ghost in the Shell SAC. Oh and lets not forget M+.

Let's face it...Yoko Kanno is currently the best in the business, and has been for some time now. It says something when to find any anime music equal to Frontier, you have to go to other Kanno productions (although a case could be made for the Akira soundtrack, I suppose).

That said, Gundam these days has been getting pretty good OP and ED music, but the overall soundtracks aren't as good. So while I'll take "Ash Like Snow" over "Triangler" any day, I bought the single of the former, and the album with the latter.

[Duke Togo]

Oh that's obvious. Ranshe. How Ranshe learned it? From the Vajra is my guess.

How? See!

How did Ranshe learn it? How did Ranshe get the disease? How did Grace turn the Vajra on them?

This plot hole is the size of the Frontier fleet.

[Nexx Stalker]

How? See!

How did Ranshe learn it? How did Ranshe get the disease? How did Grace turn the Vajra on them?

This plot hole is the size of the Frontier fleet.

You should ask Ranka.

Seriously, a thing left unsaid is not a plothole. But most importantly, before there is a plothole there has to be a plot. Frontier simply doesn't have one. We shouldn't bother with these things, the series was incredibly fun to watch and highly entertaining and kept us eager for more for 25 (26 considering the break) amazing weeks. I think it has charm.

[MisaForever]

How? See!

How did Ranshe learn it? How did Ranshe get the disease? How did Grace turn the Vajra on them?

This plot hole is the size of the Frontier fleet.

I REALLY hope you find something in life to be happy about someday.

[wolfx]

How? See!

How did Ranshe learn it? How did Ranshe get the disease? How did Grace turn the Vajra on them?

This plot hole is the size of the Frontier fleet.

I asked those as well. But i guess now that the series has ended, we'll only know in supporting material like radio dramas and whatnots. But i guess we can make some fan-wank answers.

1.) Ranshe learnt the melody from analysing the fold waves. Human lyrics were probably added in later.

2.) I can't fan-wank a theory for this seriously.....somehow she came into contact with Vajra bodily fluids. Perhaps doujins can put some light on this situation.....

3.) Hmmm wasn't it cuz she took the place of the queen and being at the top of the fold network she gets to control them?

You should ask Ranka.

Seriously, a thing left unsaid is not a plothole. But most importantly, before there is a plothole there has to be a plot. Frontier simply doesn't have one. We shouldn't bother with these things, the series was incredibly fun to watch and highly entertaining and kept us eager for more for 25 (26 considering the break) amazing weeks. I think it has charm.

So....you are agreeable to macross turning into a hollywood popcorn flick? That's the problem with ppl these days. They want lots of special fx, action sequences, but little to no story or plot, as long as they are entertained (i'm lookin at u Transformers). And the production houses are inclined to make more shows like these.

[VF-25 Messiah]

How? See!

How did Ranshe learn it? How did Ranshe get the disease? How did Grace turn the Vajra on them?

This plot hole is the size of the Frontier fleet.

uhm... The Vajra taught her it? The Queen on the Global specifically? How do you usually learn a song from someone?

Got the disease from 'hanging' out with the queen? If I were to speculate (oh how sinful of me), the Queen might have deliberately infected her to as an attempt at communication, as it'd allow her to hear fold waves, not knowing it'd prove fatal. I think I recall Grace saying something like "Why do you keep covering for that thing, even to the point where it gave you that" with regards to her illness.

Uhm, by doing bad things to them? Does it matter? You're making it to a much larger deal than it needs to be, raging over the plothole when in truth we don't need to know what happened exactly. Knowing more would be nice, but it doesn't cripple the show not knowing.

Edited September 27, 2008 by VF-25 Messiah

[Final Vegeta]

How did Ranshe learn it?

The same way we hear it in the final episode, I suppose.

How did Ranshe get the disease?

I discussed this with Wolf-x:

They have Vajra in glass containers, maybe she performed autopsies.

Anyway, I don't know what kind of story you would like to get from this thing. Maybe an episode where Ranshe is doing things that could have get her infected but by miraculous chance they don't, until the last minute when she cut her finger while cooking, and we get humanized Vajra bacteria high-fiving each other

It's like asking where the sun went when it's night Things happen even when you don't see them.

The same is true even for other questions. What happened to the city section of Macross Galaxy? The same thing that happened to the planet Tatooine.

How did Grace turn the Vajra on them?

She was experimenting on parsing their language. It seems the first thing she was able to say was something like "attack this place" or "your mother sucks my Macross Cannon"

FV

Edited September 27, 2008 by Final Vegeta

[CF18]

The really unexplained thing about Vajra is the strong individualism shown in Ai-kun. And what happen to the Vajia network now? Do Ai-kun, Ranka or Sheryl or some small queen become the "real queen"?

[VF-25 Messiah]

The really unexplained thing about Vajra is the strong individualism shown in Ai-kun. And what happen to the Vajia network now? Do Ai-kun, Ranka or Sheryl or some small queen become the "real queen"?

The super queen aint dead. It lost it's head, but that's non-fatal to a Vajra, whose mind is housed in the gut.

[Final Vegeta]

The really unexplained thing about Vajra is the strong individualism shown in Ai-kun.

Vajra have feelings, too.

And what happen to the Vajia network now? Do Ai-kun, Ranka or Sheryl or some small queen become the "real queen"?

There is already a queen. The Little Queen was needed only to control them.

FV

[Final Vegeta]

The super queen aint dead. It lost it's head, but that's non-fatal to a Vajra, whose mind is housed in the gut.

It's the Western way to understand it Vajra think with the gut, not with the mind

FV

[Duke Togo]

She was experimenting on parsing their language.

Is this in the anime, because I don't remember it? I don't know how I missed this.

[Gubaba]

The super queen aint dead. It lost it's head, but that's non-fatal to a Vajra, whose mind is housed in the gut.

...which suddenly explains why that Vajra sniped by Michael in episode 3 didn't die!

Yeah...I'm a little slow...

[Final Vegeta]

Is this in the anime, because I don't remember it? I don't know how I missed this.

In ep. 24 she stated: "The protocol we could never parse, even after intercepting communication...". This implies she did try to do it for a long time.

FV

[Final Vegeta]

...which suddenly explains why that Vajra sniped by Michael in episode 3 didn't die!

Yeah...I'm a little slow...

Because of that, Michael in ep. 7 sniped not only the head but also other parts of the body. There was a blogger that commented that he was "wasting ammo like a noob"

Anyway, it would have been perfect if Klan in episode 21 used the rifle retrieved in ep. 4. Maybe authors remembered it but opted for a mecha musume

FV

[timmystyle]

I've heard more than a few complaints about the consistency for the animation, but it really didn't bother me; then again, I don't watch as much anime as I used to, and some of my favorite anime series, Initial D and Evangelion, are a bit on and off as well.

There's more than enough people with beef against Alto, but I think he was a winner as far as character design was concerned. To paraphrase someone from another forum, "he is so beautiful and yet we don't hate him for it." This was of course thanks to it being a bit of a comedy relief setup; how we laughed when that man tried to sell him a dress

Mecha/starship porn... Enough to satisfy me! When I watched Macross Plus more than ten years ago I wanted to see more of the opening scene(of the OVA, the asteroid battle) in that beautiful animation. Frontier filled that need(a decade later, lol)

Yeah, I think it was wrapped up hastily. I'm going to wait on the movie now before I call it fully.

[Nexx Stalker]

So....you are agreeable to macross turning into a hollywood popcorn flick? That's the problem with ppl these days. They want lots of special fx, action sequences, but little to no story or plot, as long as they are entertained (i'm lookin at u Transformers). And the production houses are inclined to make more shows like these.

No, I'm not. Macross Frontier is entertaining but it is not (fortunately) a Hollywood production. In that case, we would have had 25 episodes of explosions. I simply can see that it has many faults, even if I like it.

Edited September 27, 2008 by Nexx Stalker

[Mr March]

I'm okay with the animation. This isn't SDF Macross any more. Even the lousy animation was good enough for me and the CGI was great throughout.

I also think criticisms of the story as unfocused are WAY too premature, especially coming from English fans who watched Macross Frontier between December 2007 through to September 2008. Macross Frontier was run through the fansub gamut, suffering all the problems you get from fan subs done by multiple groups, often with very little knowledge of Macross lore or context (or worse, putting in Robotech trashlations). Even with a faithful work of professional English subtitles (like Animeigo's release), it's still possible to experience an anime as somewhat jarring simply because it's Japanese and we are English viewers. I admit that I totally got the context and gist of the story in Macross Frontier, but I'm also a Macross fan and I'm a film geek, so I often invest much more in any given production than most viewers are willing. For my part, I'm definitely reserving judgment on the narrative flow until a well done subtitle job (like Shinsen's final sub job that they mentioned) is done for Macross Frontier.

Edited September 27, 2008 by Mr March

[Duke Togo]

In ep. 24 she stated: "The protocol we could never parse, even after intercepting communication...". This implies she did try to do it for a long time.

FV

Ah yes, but that doesn't explain how she turned the Vajra against the humans. In one flashback, Brera seems to imply that Ranka caused the attack.

[Final Vegeta]

While I agree with Togo that it was at heart a simple story made convoluted

Days ago I wondered what was the attractiveness of anime. The answer I came up with was that anime are both simple and complex at the same time. Easy to get in, yet plenty of things to find in them. There is no anime I can think of as a complicated one, not even Evangelion (which was simply "unanswerful"); you just need to accustom yourself to technobabble.

FV

[Final Vegeta]

In one flashback, Brera seems to imply that Ranka caused the attack.

This is from Brera's point of view, which is rather limited. He heard Ranka singing and then saw the attack.

Or it could be that Vajra came to "rescue" Ranka when they identified her positively as the most similar to them, and this happened when Ranka sang for the first time. Actually, now that I've seen ep. 25, this seems the most probable case.

FV

[Duke Togo]

This is from Brera's point of view, which is rather limited. He heard Ranka singing and then saw the attack.

Or it could be that Vajra came to "rescue" Ranka when they identified her positively as the most similar to them, and this happened when Ranka sang for the first time. Actually, now that I've seen ep. 25, this seems the most probable case.

FV

Well, that still leaves us with the big question of why they went from nicey-nice with Nome and the 117th fleet to destroy all humans?