Macross Frontier Series Discussion Thread *READ 1st Post*

[wolfx]

Ah yes, but that doesn't explain how she turned the Vajra against the humans. In one flashback, Brera seems to imply that Ranka caused the attack.

Are you talking about Gallia 4 , Ep 25 or generally since the beginning of Macross Frontier?

Cuz if you're talking about Gallia 4, the vajra knew her actions (which i assume is the experimenting and parsing) were hostile and thus retaliated. Grace didn't control the vajra. She was preempted by them.

Ep 25, as Final Vegeta said, she was able to interpret the Vajra fold network and by use of the queen control them.

If generally, Grace manipulated them to attack Frontier through some unexplained means. Probably Like putting up vajra nests in Frontier's routes or something. Sorta like dropping proximity mines in space.

Edited September 27, 2008 by wolfx

[Final Vegeta]

Probably Like putting up vajra nests in Frontier's routes or something.

In Miyazaki's Nausicaa there was a tactic like that, they used an Ohmu's child

FV

[Final Vegeta]

Well, that still leaves us with the big question of why they went from nicey-nice with Nome and the 117th fleet to destroy all humans?

As Wolf-x said, it is uncertain what you are referring to. In ep. 15 Grace stated: "They don't even know that we led the Vajra to that fleet."

Vajra attacked Frontier because of Grace, and it seems they kept attacking also because they found Ranka.

They were never ill-bent on destroying all humans, although they were attracted by OT engines and fold comunication.

(in ep. 7 Luca was captured exactly because he was using fold comunication with his ghosts)

FV

[Radd]

I loved the show. I gotta say that I don't really see many plot holes. Everything I've heard people bring up as a plot hole had some background to it. While I'd agree some parts of the story were a bit rushed, I'd say it was more a dramatic/editing problem. Story-wise, everything came together pretty nicely. I do agree that once everything is revealed, Macross Frontier is a simple story that is made out to be more complex than it is due to the slow way that everything is revealed. I don't see there being anything wrong in that, it makes you think as the show progresses despite the story not being all that complex. Like pieces of a puzzle slowly coming together. The picture at the end is easy enough to understand, it's getting there that's the fun part.

[Duke Togo]

As Wolf-x said, it is uncertain what you are referring to. In ep. 15 Grace stated: "They don't even know that we led the Vajra to that fleet."

But how? There seems to be a big chunk of information missing here.

[wolfx]

But how? There seems to be a big chunk of information missing here.

Probably when grace uploaded herself back to Frontier....they used that as the direction hostilities are coming from. Grace did say let the fold communications guide them back to Frontier.

Speaking of Gallia 4, was it ever explained why Alto's plane malfunctioned near the Global?

[VF-25 Messiah]

But how? There seems to be a big chunk of information missing here.

Does it really matter how exactly? Led them with foldwaves perhaps? What good does knowing that do? Knowing is better than not knowing, admittedly, but I think you're again making something into a much bigger deal than it really is.

[VF-25 Messiah]

Probably when grace uploaded herself back to Frontier....they used that as the direction hostilities are coming from. Grace did say let the fold communications guide them back to Frontier.

Speaking of Gallia 4, was it ever explained why Alto's plane malfunctioned near the Global?

Because someone (Grace) was emitting a D-pulse burst. It wasn't the Global. At the start of the episode, the Zentradi ship also goes blank when hit by the same D-pulse burst.

[wolfx]

Does it really matter how exactly? Led them with foldwaves perhaps? What good does knowing that do? Knowing is better than not knowing, admittedly, but I think you're again making something into a much bigger deal than it really is.

Ermmm...yes? Or is the idea of "plot hole" hard for some ppl here to comprehend? The discussion is healthy since we're trying to see if certain parts of the show were explained or not.

(though i'm not speaking for this case since there were communications between Galia 4 and Frontier up to a certain point and that's how the Vajra knew where the Frontier was)

[wolfx]

Because someone (Grace) was emitting a D-pulse burst. It wasn't the Global. At the start of the episode, the Zentradi ship also goes blank when hit by the same D-pulse burst.

Ah ok thanks. It was because of this D-pulse thing that they lost communications with Frontier as well and was unaware of the DE until Alto and Michel returned with the whole vajra fleet.

[Final Vegeta]

But how? There seems to be a big chunk of information missing here.

The specifics aren't that important. Could be that some VF-27s attacked the Vajra, then fold away, and the Vajra followed them. Could be that some Vajra were kidnapped and left disabled near Frontier. Could be that it was exploited the fact that Vajra are attracted by OT engines and fold comunication.

About the last thing, there's something that came to my mind. I remember once watching a documentary about snakes, and there was this snake in a room that tried to eat a lamp. The reason behind this is that snakes hunt using infrared, so when the lamp was turned on it was very visibile to the snake.

OT engines presumably involve fold dimension, and everything that happens in the fold dimension is very important to the Vajra. Bilra said that "The Vajra appear to collect interstellar matter and raw material from fixed stars for fold quartz." Could be that these things are vaguely related the fold dimension. OT engines are probably the same, so they could be exploited for creating the fold quartz, and they are simply more visibile to the Vajra.

FV

[Final Vegeta]

Because someone (Grace) was emitting a D-pulse burst. It wasn't the Global. At the start of the episode, the Zentradi ship also goes blank when hit by the same D-pulse burst.

This was similar to a phenomenon happened in Macross 7, there was a place that caused engine faults.

FV

[VF-25 Messiah]

This was similar to a phenomenon happened in Macross 7, there was a place that caused engine faults.

FV

But this wasn't location bound. It happened suddenly, and over a large area that had previously been unafffected. It simultaneously hit the Zentradi base and Alto's VF-25.

Edited September 27, 2008 by VF-25 Messiah

[Final Vegeta]

Just found interesting information on wikipedia.

腹芸 (haragei) means "expressing oneself without words or gestures" (literally: "belly art/performance").

Haragei is also practiced in everyday situations, especially in business, by the people of Japan. Haragei, in this sense, is cooperating with a group without doubting the plan or asking why--for the sake of harmony. It is to suppress/punish the dissent of individuals for the goal of group harmony. This sense of the word 'haragei' might be translated as "groupthink" or "harmony of opinions".

In this sense, thinking with the belly is similar but different from internet of implants Grace tried to achieve

FV

[Sergorn]

Well... I guess I'll try to write some more general impressions of the seires now.

In short I think the series was nothing short of amazing in pretty much every aspect. Visually and technically, it's definitly one the best anime TV series I've seen... Hell it's probably the most impressive I've seen since Holy Genesis Aquarion... and it's not a conicidence. The 3D/CG justs blows anything else that exist out of the water... it remained top notch for the entire series, and the fact that we could have something that pretty much looks as good as Macross Zero on a weekly basis in a outstanding accomplishment. In terme of 2D art and animation (characters I mean since the background were always great looking), it was more uneven sure... but I think the complains sometime border on nitpicking. Most of the episodes were very well done. Some episodes didn't look as good.... but even in these cases none of them looked consistently bad, they just had some poor shot here and there - and that kind of "glitch" happens in every series. Though while 2D art wasn't necesserilly THE best... for the most part it was very well done. And combined with the mindblowing CG, that's just undoubtably one of the most impressive series of these last few years... Hell I'd probably rank it as one of the most imrpessive TV anime - Period.

I thought the characters were great. I liked Alto... but Sheryl and Ranka really were the highlight of the show. They're both very well developped and they're well handled within the Story and evolved. I like that esentially they all get their annoying moments... and theire touching, loving moments. There are times I was rooting for Ranka, others for Sheryl... I think the love Triangloe was very well developped and handled, and even if it doesn't get a proper resolution, I'd argue it is the best triangle we got in the entire franchise. The secondary characters were really nice, and they pretty much all had their moment, event when they didn't get much screen time. Wheter it's Nanase, Michel, Luca, Billy, the Bridge Bunnies, Ozma... you get just enough to care about them. In that respect it probably was closer to the original seriesn and even though there a couple character which I wished had been more developped (the Quarter commander, Mr Bilrer...) it was really neat (I think one of my complain with Macross 7 is that oustide Gamlin most of the non Fire Bomber character didn't get a lot of development or use)

I think the story was just awesome. It looked at first the series might just feel like a rehash considering the similarities... but in the end it wasn't the case, adn the similarities where more to give a kicks to fans or pay hommage... Indeed in the end Macross Frontier just did basically what I want and expect from a Kawamori-directed Macross : It did something *different* while at the same time mainteining everything that made Macross.... Macross. The Vajra in the end was a interesting and great menace - and as far Macross goes was really original. I mean the antagonist in Macross always had a "human face" wether it was the Zentradi, the Protodeviling, or even Sharon Apple... here we just have a seemingly mindless menace, while the real threat is manipulating behind the scene, hidden even from the mains characters until the last episodes. It was original for the franchise, and very well handled - and it gives a rather unique feel to Frontier.

And I liked the tie to Zero... even though it was barely explained in the final episode and does leave some unexplained question, I liked it because it somewhat link Frontier to Zero, in the same way that Protedeviling were linked to the Protoculture and the story of the original series; Seeing Mao as an old lady, really was a nice touch as well.

You know I see some people on some other forums complaining that Frontier was just a rehash of the original series. I just don't get it. While it was reminiscient at times, I think it was more different than it, and IMO it's as much a "rehash" as Macross 7 was.

Other than that I thought the cast was very good as far as I could tell, and the music was awesome, as usual with Yoko Kanno (and it times reminiscent of Macross Plus - whichi is nice). I loved May'n songs for Sheryl... Ranka's songs were nice, but they just didn't convey the same excitement for me.

Regrets ? Well not really a regret but I had one complain I wish the series had a few more episodes, I would have liked the whole SMS as Pirate extended just for kicks, and a bit more of Bilrer though. But most importantly I would have liked t osee more of the 117th Fleet (and more Mao ! Mao-chan damn !). A whole flashback episode focusing on what happened then could have been a nice touch.

But in any case I thought it was a worthy addition to the Macross universe, and certainly of the best mecha series I've seen. (And truste me, I've seen a LOT). While it has its sahre of flaws, it's certainl no more or less than the other Macross productions. I don't when/if we'll see another Macross series - but I hope it will remain just as good.

-Serorn

[m0n5t3r]

sorry for the stupid question... but for the life of me i can't remember why exactly Grace needed to infiltrate Frontier? was it just to get things going and find the vajra homeworld?

[miriya]

I voted 10. Only because 11 was not an available option. This series completely and entirely exceeded my expectations, hopes, and imagination. Every aspect was top notch, the story, the unfolding plot, the characters, the actors, the writing, the music, the Mecha, the animation, the style, the designs (characters, sets, mecha, etc.), the way that it was very unique but still very macross, everything. I am beside myslef and overwhelmed with joy. As much as I imagine I can not think of anything I would change about this series. It really is a masterpiece. Macross Zero was my favorite for a while but now Frontier takes the top. It is the pinnacle of macross, summing up and containing all the escence of the macross universe. However I would really only reccomend friends to watch it if they watched SDFM, DYRL, Macross Plus, and Macross Zero as prerequisites to fully appreciate Frontier.

[Oihan]

Macross Frontier is truly epic; it has far exceedingly surpassed my expectations on all fronts. I'm actually quite saddened and bummed out that Frontier is over. I can only imagine what the movie will bring.

I gave it a nine (9) because I believe some of the animation could have been a tiny bit better...and because the love triangle wasn't fully resolved.

I think the story is really well done with the plots and twists it had. There were some definite tear jerking moments in Frontier...as well as some funny ones. To me, a great story is one that jerks you around emotionally...and Frontier did just that. The characters were well thought out and developed; I'd say I'm pretty attached to the whole lot of them. It was heartbreaking to see Klan so distraught over Michael...hell I even felt the loss of Michael. The music is just fantastic; Yoko Kanno really out did herself I think. There are times where I'll listen to nothing but the music from Frontier. The animation was top notch in my opinion. Sure, there are some scenes that could have been drawn better...but I understand there's budget constraints and the likes...so it's no big deal in my opinion. Then there's the mecha pr0n! There was plenty of it and it was beautifully orchestrated if you ask me.

Anyway.... I'm so glad that I rediscovered the Macross Saga back in 1995. It's because of the Macross Saga that I've come to fully enjoy the Macross series. The Macross series has been a BIG part of my life; I have much love for it! I CANNOT wait to see what's next!!!!!!

Edited September 28, 2008 by Oihan

[Final Vegeta]

The 3D/CG justs blows anything else that exist out of the water...

And there was a blogger who said Blassreiter had better CG In Blassreiter everthing looks like it's made of plastic It's on a par with a Transformer series/Zegapain CG.

Hell I'd probably rank it as one of the most imrpessive TV anime - Period.

Sadly these days some people are still unimpressed by good CG

I think the love Triangloe was very well developped and handled, and even if it doesn't get a proper resolution, I'd argue it is the best triangle we got in the entire franchise.

It certainyl got the most shipteasing

FV

[VF-25 Messiah]

And there was a blogger who said Blassreiter had better CG In Blassreiter everthing looks like it's made of plastic It's on a par with a Transformer series/Zegapain CG.

Sadly these days some people are still unimpressed by good CG

It certainyl got the most shipteasing

FV

People wouldn't know good CG if it walked up to them and slapped them across the face. Macross Frontier's CG has basicly been PPB-punching you in the gut since the first episode.

[Sergorn]

People wouldn't know good CG if it walked up to them and slapped them across the face. Macross Frontier's CG has basicly been PPB-punching you in the gut since the first episode.

Yeah, and it's not just the CG that's impressive... it's also the directing : the way the shots are composed, the way the camera moves.... it's directed that is more akin to what you see in live action films and that you usually don't see in anime (ans especially not in a TV series). Andi t's only possible through such extensive use of CG. Zero was directed the same way... but that was an OAV. I've only such impressive directing in Kawamori animes thus far - and I watch a lot of anime. He's really pushing the use

of CG to new bounds.

-Sergorn

[Tobi54]

And there was a blogger who said Blassreiter had better CG In Blassreiter everthing looks like it's made of plastic It's on a par with a Transformer series/Zegapain CG.

Sadly these days some people are still unimpressed by good CG

It certainyl got the most shipteasing

FV

umm, I didnt know anythng about that anime until you mentioned it, looks pretty awesome IMO, saw some videos and thought the animation and choreography looked really good, checked the staff, lo and behold, Ichiro Itano's the director, ohh yeah, Itano Circus fix, I'm definetly gonna watch this.

Edited September 28, 2008 by Tobi54

[Bri]

The blend of CG and 2d animation was one of the best I have seen sofar in anime. Animation quality has varied quite a bit during the series. I don't really care about that, for the most part is was really good to superb. Doubt they had a massive budget to work with. Tbh I would love to know what kind of money was used to make Frontier.

I feel the pacing is a bit off but can't really comment on it yet as I watched the series weekly per episode. A marathon session soon will sort that.

[frankmu]

Ok, so, how does Ranka know Aimo? How did she learn the song?

i think it's like how the Zentradi "knew" the PC song in DYRL.... "Aimo" was a Vajyra mating song inbeded in Vajyra "viral DNA", "Oboeteimasuka" a PC love song. I guess there's some "genetic memory" invoked here.

i understand your confusion about the series. for longtime a macross fan, this series unlocks 25 years (!) of emotion and memories. Despite the early 80's animation, the original Macross story still holds up very well. For example, episode 33 "Rainy Night", with Claudia and Misa sharing a bottle of wine... we didn't have anything like that in Frontier. I felt Bilrer's sadness when he looked at Minmay's picture... us old guys were hoping to see her too.

overall, i enjoyed it, and am looking forward to picking up the Blueray version when i go to Japan next week.

[VF-25 Messiah]

i think it's like how the Zentradi "knew" the PC song in DYRL.... "Aimo" was a Vajyra mating song inbeded in Vajyra "viral DNA", "Oboeteimasuka" a PC love song. I guess there's some "genetic memory" invoked here.

Uhm there's a way easier answer than that. Her mother taught it to her. She used it as lullaby for her since she was baby. Heck we even have an episode called "mothers lullaby". For a reason.

[Final Vegeta]

umm, I didnt know anythng about that anime until you mentioned it, looks pretty awesome IMO, saw some videos and thought the animation and choreography looked really good, checked the staff, lo and behold, Ichiro Itano's the director, ohh yeah, Itano Circus fix, I'm definetly gonna watch this.

It's not that bad as CG as I was venting it to be, the models are decently complex and they are a lot of animations, but somehow it lacks the extra touch Satelight put in its CG. I think it's the lighting effects, there are things that appear to glow yet surrounding areas remain unlighted. This saves time for calculation, I suppose, but still clashes.

FV

Edited September 28, 2008 by Final Vegeta

[adrianop]

Voted an 8. It sure satisified my Macross fix, but still some story elements felt too rushed for my taste.

[Duke Togo]

Uhm there's a way easier answer than that. Her mother taught it to her. She used it as lullaby for her since she was baby. Heck we even have an episode called "mothers lullaby". For a reason.

Well then, how did Ranshe learn it?

[VF-25 Messiah]

Well then, how did Ranshe learn it?

From the Vajra. Did they teach it to her, or did she decipher foldwaves from the queen as it sang? I dunno. To me it doesn't make much of a difference.

[Final Vegeta]

Well then, how did Ranshe learn it?

I think I'd go with the reference to DYRL. Misa somehow was able to decipher the notes and lyrics and then even know the song was a commercial one. There's a vague mysticism about songs in Macross. I already mentioned a Japanese term, haragei (acting from the belly), which means "comunication without words or gestures", that is, emotional comunication. From the emotions put in the song, one can learn what was a song about, even if the song was not even heard. It's highly poetic, although it doesn't make sense

FV

[Duke Togo]

From the Vajra. Did they teach it to her, or did she decipher foldwaves from the queen as it sang? I dunno. To me it doesn't make much of a difference.

I dunno, to me its an important plot point. Why the Vajra did what they did seems rather important to the story.

[Oihan]

I dunno, to me its an important plot point. Why the Vajra did what they did seems rather important to the story.

What real difference would it make to the story though? As of now all we can really do is speculate. I believe that if the creators really thought it was pertinent to the story, for us to know how Ranshe learned the song, they would have told us. Like the others, the only things I can think of would be that she either came across the Vajra singing that song or she somehow deciphered the song from something.

[Final Vegeta]

What real difference would it make to the story though?

This in an anime whose message is think with your belly, not your head

FV

[Kelsain]

This in an anime whose message is think with your belly, not your head

FV

Yeah, and I'm hungry!

Overall, I'd call it between 8 & 9. So I'll vote 9.

I will have to go back and watch the whole series again before I can comment on pacing, but the slower episodes in the first half really got you wrapped up in their characters. Remember how we all thought Sheryl was stuck-up, Ranka was the cliche moe girl, and Alto was the standard brooding type? True, these were the jumping off points for the characters, but they grew to so much more!

My main unfulfilled wishes were for a little more bad-guy exposition. Just a little more insight into the Vajra's history with Ranshe (I don't really think it was all Ranka's fault); and a little more info on Galaxy Anonymous. I was actually happy with the way Ranka summed up the Vajra's motivations. They're so fundamentally different from humans, there's literally no way to "get inside their head."

One thing I would have really asked for would be 1 more episode in the final arc. They could have ended 24 with the Battle Galaxy reveal, then given some serious time the fight with the V-9's, and allow some info on the GA. Wrap that episode up with Grace as super-queen, then finish it out the way they did.

I appreciated Alto's ultimate decision, I thought it was a cool way to end the series on an open romantic note, rather than the awkward collapse of M7's triangle. I hope the movie goes into the Vajra/Protoculture connection, hinted at by Brera's discovery of the birdman statue.

So sad it's over, but loved it!

[Gubaba]

I will have to go back and watch the whole series again before I can comment on pacing, but the slower episodes in the first half really got you wrapped up in their characters. Remember how we all thought Sheryl was stuck-up, Ranka was the cliche moe girl, and Alto was the standard brooding type? True, these were the jumping off points for the characters, but they grew to so much more!

My favorite early bit remains the short scene from the Broadcast Edition of episode 1 when Sheryl is loudly complaining to Cathy about hiring students to perform at her concert. She concludes with, "Of course, everyone in the audience will be paying attention to ME," and then flounces into her dressing room, leaving Grace to bow apologetically to Cathy.

My main thought at that point was how sorry I felt for this rather meek-looking manager, having to deal with such a prima donna. I couldn't have been more wrong, huh?