Macross Frontier Final Episode Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[grss1982]

With a Mask. Of course.

-Sergorn

Oh Great. First a Gunship that can be used as a Beam Saber. Now a dude with a mask. Let me guess he flies a RED VF-27 and has several loli hench women.

NOTE: I was just joking about that.

But seriously I finally had a look see at the episode again, and it seems people were right not only did the Koening Monster's leg get damaged by the the left cannon/hand as well.

Also.....rewatched the episode again...and did Alto just do the rapid eye targeting thingy like Ozma & Roy before him only much much faster? You know I tried moving my eyes like that and I felt dizzy.

Anywyas....I just realized though that in Roy's case in MZ, it wasn't really rapid eye targeting compared to Ozma and Alto. It looked a lot slower to me.

Edited September 29, 2008 by grss1982

[Major Focker]

i'm curious why ranka's eyes were in the background while alto was doing that epileptic targeting bit. is it to say that ranka was basically advising him where to hit because of what she's discerned of vajra anatomy?

[RedWolf]

i'm curious why ranka's eyes were in the background while alto was doing that epileptic targeting bit. is it to say that ranka was basically advising him where to hit because of what she's discerned of vajra anatomy?

Dude that was Brera targeting Grace with his own micro missiles.

[Valkyrie addict]

epileptic targeting bit.

[Major Focker]

Dude that was Brera targeting Grace with his own micro missiles.

oops! well, they're siblings afterall, so pardon if i confuse them every now and then

was brera really targeting with his own missiles though or was he either guiding alto or feeding off alto for his own targeting (presumably through their newfound mind link)? brera had his back turned on the target. that's pretty neat.

edit: also just noticed that one of luca's ghosts sacrificed itself to cover him (when alto was just about to charge the queen, but before hooking up with brera). either luca reined them back to normal programming or that judah system has had some tweaks. i don't think self-sacrifice would've been on its original programming back in the sharon apple days.

Edited September 29, 2008 by Major Focker

[VF-25S Full Armour]

With a Mask. Of course.

-Sergorn

Macross Frontier Movie Edition scene no.47:

Klan-Klan meets the cyberized Michael, now working for Darth Grace

Darth Michael: "Klan-Klan, you never knew what happened to your lover. I AM YOUR LOVER!"

Klan-Klan: "That's not true, that's impossible! NOOOOO!!!!!!!!"

Klan-Klan's Zentradi instincts kicked in, lunging towards what remains of her former loved one with her PPB saber...

[Final Vegeta]

But then again I think that *someone* decided on a last-minute rewrite of the final minutes. The rather poor animation quality ( compared to much of the rest of the episode ) is a big clue, IMO. I mean, why exactly do the last few minutes of the show look so much worse than the earlier parts of the episode or even the whole episode before that

I did warn you guys.

First, people who don't speak Japanese accuse everything of mistranslation citing as proof the lack of evidence of the contrary.

Now, people doubt even what they see on screen because it could be manipulated somehow.

Next, someone will assert Kawamori was going to have a Sheryl end but Megumi Nakajima fornicated with the animators so they forced Kawamori to leave an open end, citing as proof pictures of Kawamori looking closer to May'n than to Nakajima

FV

[Hikaru's VF-1S]

is the shot you want in these? XD

Thoses are nice screencaps! using one for my wallpaper. got any with the valkyire holding both guns in battroid and gerwalk?

[VF-25S Full Armour]

Next, someone will assert Kawamori was going to have a Sheryl end but Megumi Nakajima fornicated with the animators so they forced Kawamori to leave an open end, citing as proof pictures of Kawamori looking closer to May'n than to Nakajima

FV

ROFLMAO!!!!!!

Seems that shipper creativity knows no bounds...

[magnuskn]

I did warn you guys.

First, people who don't speak Japanese accuse everything of mistranslation citing as proof the lack of evidence of the contrary.

Now, people doubt even what they see on screen because it could be manipulated somehow.

Next, someone will assert Kawamori was going to have a Sheryl end but Megumi Nakajima fornicated with the animators so they forced Kawamori to leave an open end, citing as proof pictures of Kawamori looking closer to May'n than to Nakajima

FV

Eh, you again. How about answering my question: Why do exactly the last three minutes use worse animation than the rest of the episode ( or the whole of the episode before that )? One would think that the show would like to go out looking the best it can.

[yaiba]

And no, I probably don't want to be convinced...because if I were, I wold also be convinced that the ending of Frontier was very badly written indeed, and I don't accept that it was. Plus, there's the fact that everyone who has tried to convince me me that Alto chose Sheryl has also felt the need to insult me at the same time, which (SURPRISE!) makes me less inclined to take the theory seriously.

But I would like to know...if it's all so obvious, why do only the Sheryl Shippers see it?

I guess this is why under Forum Rules and Guidelines it says:

Section I: Prohibited Behavior

1. No religious or political debates.

And just in case someone needs it:

[grss1982]

i'm curious why ranka's eyes were in the background while alto was doing that epileptic targeting bit. is it to say that ranka was basically advising him where to hit because of what she's discerned of vajra anatomy?

:lol: :lol:

Its about 1:50 a.m. here and I just woke my sister at the way I'm maniacally laughing at your comment about rapid eye targeting.

[Kronnang Dunn]

Eh, you again. How about answering my question: Why do exactly the last three minutes use worse animation than the rest of the episode ( or the whole of the episode before that )? One would think that the show would like to go out looking the best it can.

Wasn't there a Macross F animation quality thread somewhere?

[Sergorn]

Eh, you again. How about answering my question: Why do exactly the last three minutes use worse animation than the rest of the episode ( or the whole of the episode before that )

Because they used the entire budget on the gigantic space battle ?

But then I don't see what's so horrible about the last few minutes anyway... *shrugs*

-Sergorn

[r34racer01]

The guys just a pathetic RoboTroll who's bitter because his favourite franchise is basicly dead, getting crap and ultimately futile attempts like SC to revive it every now and then, while Macross gets celebrated with good sequels and is full of vigor to this day.

I wish you guys would actually read these things before spitting out nonsense. If you had read what he had then you would have known that he never said anything about hating Macross Frontier or saying Shadow Chronicles was better. He just said the Frontier did not look like his cup a tea and that from the first episode he could see that it did not live up the the original, which I completely agree with. As much as I like Frontier, it is not as good as the original. So before you start throwing out insults and derogatory comments, could you at least read what is being complained about. Johnathan is actually a pretty good guy and a big Robotech AND MACROSS fan, and not a "Robotroll."

[vivitoru]

Hello there, this is my first actual post in this forum (however I've been lurking here for quite some time now).

I know I am kind of late posting in this thread (really late) I wanted to ask something I've not seen being discussed before (I may have missed it).

Does the episode 24 preview pic (Sheryl "RIP" art) actually pointed to Alto's wingmen Maruyama's fate?

It seems to be the nose art you can see when he transforms in battroid mode before being killed by the ghost (if this is the case, how cruel of Kawamori T_T)

[magnuskn]

Because they used the entire budget on the gigantic space battle ?

But then I don't see what's so horrible about the last few minutes anyway... *shrugs*

-Sergorn

They are not "horrible" per se, but the animation is of inferior quality than comparable character animation in the whole of episode 24. It doesn´t make much sense ( at least to me, apparently I am the only one ^^ ), that for the very last minutes the animation should dip so considerably. As I already said two times, why go out on a low note, animation-wise?

Would someone *please* address the actual issue I am raising, instead of making spurious remarks about "paranoia" and such? It seems a bit unlikely that their budget just ran out for the last three minutes.

[Final Vegeta]

Eh, you again. How about answering my question: Why do exactly the last three minutes use worse animation than the rest of the episode ( or the whole of the episode before that )? One would think that the show would like to go out looking the best it can.

There is nothing wrong in the last minutes No bad animation, no sudden drop of quality, nothing.

FV

[Xeros]

Theory.

Maybe SK orders to animate the 3 possible endings and the animation staff just get pissed about that xD

[magnuskn]

There is nothing wrong in the last minutes No bad animation, no sudden drop of quality, nothing.

FV

Um. Yes. There is. How about you watch the last three minutes. The faces of Shery, Alto and Ranka look quite blocky. Compare with the conversation between Alto and Sheryl in ep 24, then come back and say again what you just said with a straight face.

[MisaForever]

DOES THIS REALLY MATTER??!!! THE SERIES IS OVER, PLEASE STOP ARGUING

Seriously guys, you all sound like 12 year olds.

Edited September 29, 2008 by MisaForever

[magnuskn]

DOES THIS REALLY MATTER??!!! THE SERIES IS OVER, PLEASE STOP ARGUING

Seriously guys, you all sound like 12 year olds.

And why can´t I get a straight answer out of anybody? It´s not as if I am advocating some wild conspiracy theory. I am asking a legitimate question in the appropiate thread. The animation quality in the last three to four minutes is noticeably poorer than the rest. That´s not even an opinion, but just a fact.

My question to this is, does anybody else think it likely, that this could be because of a last minute editorial mandate, so that the triangle could be prolonged until the movie? What is so bad about that question? Geeze.

[adrianop]

It probably is as simple as this: a different studio was incharge for animating the last three minutes. Oh and I already played with my dolls before posting.

[Final Vegeta]

Um. Yes. There is. How about you watch the last three minutes. The faces of Shery, Alto and Ranka look quite blocky. Compare with the conversation between Alto and Sheryl in ep 24, then come back and say again what you just said with a straight face.

In the scene you point to characters are drawn closer to the camera, using close shots. The lighting of the scene was also different.

FV

[magnuskn]

It probably is as simple as this: a different studio was incharge for animating the last three minutes.

Yeah, but why the last three minutes? Wouldn´t you want to end your show on a high note in every regard? Why not farm out, say, three minutes in episode 24?

In the scene you point to characters are drawn closer to the camera, using close shots. The lighting of the scene was also different.

FV

Your´re just trying to mess with me at this point, man. Knock it off.

Edited September 29, 2008 by magnuskn

[maglev]

Maybe because it is not as important to animate the last part beautifully as the rest of the fighting sequences for the last episode since if the fans can stand some 'quality animation' in the past episodes, 3 minutes of quality dips for the last part in an overall superb episode is a minor thing.

Besides, the background scenery are top notch as always, and the triangler song are good enough to distract me.... I was singging the song at that time instead of noticing some dip in the animation

edit: and they still wrongly put Battle Frontier BFG in those last scene despite it was shown being blown up before, so yeah... it was probably done by different studio just as what adrianop mentioned

Edited September 29, 2008 by maglev

[adrianop]

Why not? All the different scenes get assigned to different studios months/weeks before it airs, regardless of which episode. Each studio having its own job and specialty, and alot of scenes dont make it to the final cut too. Whether its quality passes anyone's standard does not really matter, if SK approves it, it gets shown.

[magnuskn]

Well, it probably is just that, they farmed out the last three minutes to another studio. But it *still* seems strange. Maybe it is my jaded comic-reader self which smells a last-minute editorial interference, but what do I know, in the end.

But just to give a last comparison we got this in ep 25:

vs. this in ep 24:

I think the difference should be obvious.

[Final Vegeta]

Your´re just trying to mess with me at this point, man. Knock it off.

Post some screenshots if you want to get your point across. It's you who is trying to convince us, show some effort.

Studying the video, when the shot is close enough there are tiny lighter spots on the cheek-bones, on the line of the nose, on the lower lip. I saw them even in the last minutes of Frontier. So no, there is nothing that is suggesting they got a worser treatment.

FV

[Final Vegeta]

I think the difference should be obvious.

The difference is, as I told you, Sheryl's face in episode 24 is a closer shot than in ep. 25. Her head occupies the whole height of the screen in the screenshot of ep. 24, while it was only a third of the screen in the screenshot ep. 25.

FV

Edited September 29, 2008 by Final Vegeta

[carzooyah]

magnuskn, you asked why the last three minutes were bad time and again, and people have responded saying it's fine, or with various other answers they could honestly think of. Time and again everyone has answered as truthfully as they see it yet you still insisted that they didn't give you a straight answer? We see the anime as it is and we're not in privy to the animation studio just like you aren't as well. Really the best people to ask this question would be SK and the MF crew.

In the end adrianop's explanation seemed like the most plausible one. It'd explain the little inconsistencies seen throughout the entire series.

I think the ending is fine as well.

[adrianop]

Ok fine it was edited to show a different ending. Ranka/Sheryl would have won the triangle but to appease the hardcore Sheryl/Ranka fans, SK edited it to be <insert your interpretation here>.

[David Hingtgen]

Thought I just had:

Why is Grace in her standard outfit at the end?!?! Did she change back from her flightsuit between the end of ep 22 and actually getting in the VF-27? I mean, for both plot and fanservice reasons, she really should have been in her flightsuit for the entire last 3 eps, and only been wearing her standard outfit for her "mental self-image". Unless she keeps a spare set of clothes in the VF-27 and changed for some reason before arriving to save Brera...

That also changes the interpretation of the "floating down the hole to the queen" scene----I think everyone initially thought that was symbolic of her mental self "hacking down" to the queen (since she'd just left her VF-27 hovering nearby yet wasn't in her flightsuit)----but now I think that was a literal image of her flying down.

[Duke Togo]

DOES THIS REALLY MATTER??!!! THE SERIES IS OVER, PLEASE STOP ARGUING

GUNS GUNS GUNS! C'mon, guys! The Tigers are playing tonight. I never miss a game.

[magnuskn]

Gah! I post some last screenshots and want to bow out of the discussion, after basically conceding that it may be just what it appears to be, then get three challenges to post some evidence. I´ll leave it alone, as I said.