Macross Frontier Final Episode Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[flobo]

So wait...do you think that nothing happened, or that too much happened too quickly?

I don't agree with either assessment, but I can understand why many would agree with the latter. The former makes no sense to me, unless it's referring exclusively to the love triangle.

Well, i should have said, "nothing was developed". It went so fast on every topic that in the end, i had the impression we had no real answer at all.

I would have liked to have one episode to end the presidential conspiracy and the fleet reunification for intance, rather than have it just happen like that.

Edited September 27, 2008 by flobo

[Final Vegeta]

Leon was also brought down in less than 10s, he didn't even say a word.

On what grounds do you base this nonsense!?

FV

[Gubaba]

Saw at least 2 dulfim class and 2 kaitos class vessels as well, an at least one dozen green VF-27's. Wouldn't be surpised if most of the Galaxy militairy was present. Only really the city block missing, which would make sense not to bring into a war zone.

Which just goes to show that the President (or whatever they have) of Macross Galaxy isn't an idiot...unlike some would-be usurpers with foo-foo haircuts I could mention...

(You know, when Frontier first started, I kept referring to Leon as "the guy with the foo-foo haircut" in the hope that it would catch on, but it never seemed to. Still, I was rather shocked later in the series when Leon referred to the VF-27 as a "Foo Fighter." Complete coincidence, I know...but a rather neat one.)

[grss1982]

There were some need DYRL moments in that one too - I loved ALto saluting in his VF-25, and him shooting Grace felt reminiscent of Hikaru shooting Bodolza ! Yeah !

Actually Alto taking down the queen back in Episode 14 was more reminiscent of Bodolza Assasination from DYRL.

Anyways I just wanted to point out that ONCE AGAIN Alto has ejected an Armored Pack. Seriously I think the supply/logistics people of Macross Qaurter are having a bout of EPIC face palming at this dude's antics of ejecting all those parts.

BTW.....how many Packs has he actually discarded I'm counting 2 Armored Packs (14 & 25) and 3 Super Packs (Episode 7, 13 & 14). And don't get me started about those VF's he manages to loose throughout the freaking series.

[tankf77]

Just to add. The Vajra queen's domain is a spiral shell while the Vahla Ena swirl around the cemetery they enter it.

SO, what about the other queen laying eggs in Gallia4?

[VF-25 Messiah]

(You know, when Frontier first started, I kept referring to Leon as "the guy with the foo-foo haircut" in the hope that it would catch on, but it never seemed to. Still, I was rather shocked later in the series when Leon referred to the VF-27 as a "Foo Fighter." Complete coincidence, I know...but a rather neat one.)

Indeed. Most seem to call him mushroom head or any variation there of counting both japanese and western fans. Anyway he was quite the fool

[Valkyrie addict]

well...foofighter was what the allies called UFO's in WWII, ally bombing missions on their way to German occupied territory usually encounter unidentifyed lights on the sky that would trail their formation or circle them, the allies thought it was a secret german spy plane or something and decided to called them "foofighter" cause something about ball of fire...

so Leon just refer in the initial part of frontier to the VF-27 as a foofighter because it was a UFO to them at that time...

I felt the this last episode was epic but since the beginning to the end I felt it was a big remembrance to all the macross series... including the stupid unresolved triangle

[wolfx]

About Cinderella's Horn, it looks like it's what Sheryl was doing. We saw in a previous episode a technician preparing the bridge for that, the same bridge where Sheryl performed.

But Grace was setting it up with the tech. Was expecting some sabotage to happen like the anti-grav failing and Sheryl going splat after she says "Watashi No Uta Kikke".

So erm...why did Grace set it up...i thought it was a build up to something sinister but meh...never happened.

[emajnthis]

I think people are looking into the Bilra thing too much; i interpreted it as him reminiscing the events of SWI, he looks old enough to have been a spectator or even an effected of the Minmay attack it probably just brought him back down memory lane.

[Final Vegeta]

SO, what about the other queen laying eggs in Gallia4?

Died in episode 14. But, although not shown, I think each Vajra battleship could have some type of queen inside.

I think people are looking into the Bilra thing too much; i interpreted it as him reminiscing the events of SWI, he looks old enough to have been a spectator or even an effected of the Minmay attack it probably just brought him back down memory lane.

He probably thought they were going to be saved by Minmay again, for some indiscernible reason

So erm...why did Grace set it up...i thought it was a build up to something sinister but meh...never happened.

Because at the time Ranka was still in Frontier. I told you, develoments happen.

FV

Edited September 27, 2008 by Final Vegeta

[Duke Togo]

I think people are looking into the Bilra thing too much; i interpreted it as him reminiscing the events of SWI, he looks old enough to have been a spectator or even an effected of the Minmay attack it probably just brought him back down memory lane.

Are we just going to ignore his line of dialog in episode 24, where he says, "Soon... Soon I'll be able to meet you"?

[emajnthis]

Are we just going to ignore his line of dialog in episode 24, where he says, "Soon... Soon I'll be able to meet you"?

Must've missed that line, in that regard you could say he feels a sense of relief since his dream could soon be realized now that the vajra are allies (he can just pick up and fold to her location.. assuming someone knows where that is). Guess that's what happens when you watch the whole series at once

Edited September 27, 2008 by emajnthis

[s-girl]

GG sub is up. *runs off*

[Elektrix]

Are we just going to ignore his line of dialog in episode 24, where he says, "Soon... Soon I'll be able to meet you"?

Certainly that line can't be ignored when combined with what he said about how boundaries of both time and space would disappear or something like that. Seems like he probably might have in fact hoped to meet her, and i think the look on his face in this episode is just him realizing it wasn't going to happen.

[Sergorn]

Bilrer still remains quite myterious in the end... in the end we don't really know what he is after beside wanting to create an "instant-fold" network. Maybe that's all there is to it, but there seemed to be something more behind all that.

Maybe he intented to use this fold network to look for the Megaroad 01 and Minmay *_* (Ok or not, let's not go down that road:D)

-Sergorn

[wolfx]

Died in episode 14. But, although not shown, I think each Vajra battleship could have some type of queen inside.

Commander/queen yeah. The fold network after all is in a hierachical structure, with the "super queen" being at the top of it. The rest of the queens are sub-nodes and by killing one off, the connection to the smaller vajra is lost temporarily thus the confusion in the ranks until the root node takes control again either directly or through another sub-node.

Because at the time Ranka was still in Frontier. I told you, develoments happen.

FV

So if Ranka was still on Frontier, her original plan will be to use Ranka and Leon on Battle Frontier instead of using Battle Galaxy? That's probably true. She probably did not anticipate Brera throwing out his tracer (whatever that is) and running off with Ranka and neither did she anticipate Sheryl's recovery and ability for fold waves.

[Elektrix]

Btw, I've got to say, loved the finale, and seemed to wrap things up pretty well.

When I first heard Macross F would only be 25 episodes, I was kind of disappointed, hoping for a Gundamesque 50-episode series at least. But having seen the finale now, I'm pretty satisfied with it. I wouldn't mind a Dynamite 7-like follow-up OVA series (I'm assuming the movie will in fact be more of a compilation movie, or at least a retelling if it is more than that).

[Valkyrie addict]

holly crap! 700MB gg subbed.... geez...

[s-girl]

Nice. The raw script from GG works without much correction with the high quality raw.

holly crap! 700MB gg subbed.... geez...

If you use BSPlayer, you can turn the .ass into a .ssa file and drag it in while BSPlayer plays the raw.

Other comments--

So Klan was working with OZma all along.

Luca's slave ships were "inhibited" before.... (Luca states something about the yokes being gone now...)

Regarding Bilrer/Minmay - I agree - I think he wanted to know what happened to Minmei. Ultimate curious fanboy like the rest of us. Sadly, we didn't get any insight either.

Edited September 27, 2008 by s-girl

[Shun]

Since i'm too used to harem anime (urgh...i shouldn't be) i don't really mind the triangle unresolved too. But I am more annoyed by the shipper wars especially the sheryl ones who insist alto has made his choice Sheryl....when its obvious he hasn't.

i totally felt the same!! LOL...

Please guys, tell me you're just doing a parody of Animesuki-style shippers...

The love triangle was left open-ended...and you can probably find "hints" to prove any damn thing you want to prove. I could probably demonstrate that Alto chose Klan if I set my mind to it...

i hope its just this message board... lol... the little so-called "hints" are sooooo funny, but then to realize that they were serious about their "findings and conclusions"...

Awesome. The Judah system was the AI program that was used in the Sharon Apple Incident. Seems Luca has modified it to be battlefield practical.

I was wrong about the Ghost V-9s though, they sport a red dorsal section and a blue underside, it has both a laser cannon and missiles. Great to see the technologies from Plus being used.

can anyone point out (best if they have pictures) the differences in the various Ghost units?

since the Judah system was the same as the one back in Sharon Apple incident, aren't they very dangerous? they could very well turn and shoot at Frontier instead. I only noticed one of Luca's Ghosts was hit (probably destroyed) what happened to the others.

[Radd]

Fantastic episode. I had what I believed would be unrealistically high expectations, and it still managed to exceed them overall.

Only read to about page 7 of the thread, though. I'm wondering if I've been seeing the same show as some of the people who have been posting. At least I didn't see anyone posting about how they didn't understand why the Vajra were suddenly on Frontier's side, seeing as how there were people posting about how they were looking forward to seeing Frontier triumph over the evil alien Vajra as recently as episode 24.

Duke, I'd say Bilrer's line about "Soon I'll be able to meet you" was supposed to be ambiguous. Mr. Bilrer's intentions were never very clear, and some scenes portrayed him in such a way that we might think he was looking to exploit the Vajra for his own purposes (and many did come to that conclusion). However, it being revealed that he was waiting to see "Minmay" (that is to say, two races completely alien to each other being brought together by an outreach of culture) shows that he wasn't a bad guy at all, and his talk of "bringing the galaxy together" was a talk of idealism, not opportunism. It's not something to ignore, it's a bit of character development for Bilrer.

[Shun]

Mr.Bilrer represents the fanboys who own most of the VF model releases & other Macross merchandise

and as such has indirectly and continually helped fund the Macross series.

He still wants to find out what happened to Minmay & maybe the Megaroad

and insists Kawamori make another series about the original love triangle ! XD

the hory froating head knows !

yeah i totally agree with u!! Bilrer is us fanboys, and he owns real VFs!!! isn't that every otakus' dream come true?

Bilrer still remains quite myterious in the end... in the end we don't really know what he is after beside wanting to create an "instant-fold" network. Maybe that's all there is to it, but there seemed to be something more behind all that.

Maybe he intented to use this fold network to look for the Megaroad 01 and Minmay *_* (Ok or not, let's not go down that road:D)

-Sergorn

I suspect he wants to look for Minmay too... by using the fold network. just like many fanboys here wants to find out about Megaroad01 and Minmay.

Edited September 27, 2008 by Shun

[Duke Togo]

However, it being revealed that he was waiting to see "Minmay" (that is to say, two races completely alien to each other being brought together by an outreach of culture) shows that he wasn't a bad guy at all, and his talk of "bringing the galaxy together" was a talk of idealism, not opportunism. It's not something to ignore, it's a bit of character development for Bilrer.

I agree.

yeah i totally agree with u!! Bilrer is us fanboys, and he owns real VFs!!! isn't that every otakus' dream come true?

Here we have this disabled Zentradi (war veteran?) who has his own Macross, his own Skull Squadron, and dreams of seeing Minmay.

Edited September 27, 2008 by Duke Togo

[VF-25 Messiah]

i hope its just this message board...

This message board is actually very tame when it comes to these things compared with how ugly things get out there in the wild...

[s-girl]

I feel pretty certain after watching the sub that Grace's other collaborators were likely completely obliterated. The mystery of what Galaxy was though still intrigues me. There were obviously human-types around, so did they get blown up with the rest of Galaxy?

That's one of the plot thingies that still sort of bugs me.

As for the ship stuff, *shrug*

I still have an opinion that there's an advantage (however short-lived) for Sheryl, but that may or may not last. Really, who cares? Ranka seems to like Alto, but she also seems to like Sheryl (and Sheryl likes Ranka). I don't think of the ending as anything except a friendly rivalry , because Alto for the most part goes flying around BEFORE he lands. I get the feeling people wanted to see him go do something uncharacteristically Alto (or Japanese) and go in for the kill with a kiss or picking a girl.

What I think IS cool, is the little speech Brera and Alto make before blowing up Grace is the statement about love and humans (inferred) not being able to be alone.

Does it really matter to Kawamori who Alto chooses? Probably not. I think the key statement made in this episode and the previous one is that humans can't walk alone, no matter who or what they choose.

The little look on Grace's face as she realizes her death is imminent is kind of sad too. All this time, I've been wondering if the "android collective" was what she turned to when she lost Mao and Ranshe. In a twisted way, she was trying to be close to them all this time.

And with this second look at the ending and what I think Kawamori wanted us to walk away with, I am so much happier with it.

The only nagging fear I have is "What happened to Kanaria?" I didn't see her in the final pan/shot of the crew from the Quarter. I hope this gets addressed in the movie release. (I'd like to see an OVA kind of like the Gundam Wing treatment where we got more ending scenes to bring closure to more characters.)

Edited September 27, 2008 by s-girl

[Sergorn]

As for the ship stuff, *shrug*

I still have an opinion that there's an advantage (however short-lived) for Sheryl, but that may or may not last. Really, who cares? Ranka seems to like Alto, but she also seems to like Sheryl (and Sheryl likes Ranka). I don't think of the ending as anything except a friendly rivalry , because Alto for the most part goes flying around BEFORE he lands. I get the feeling people wanted to see him go do something uncharacteristically Alto (or Japanese) and go in for the kill with a kiss or picking a girl.

I liked what Alto say to Sheryl and Ranka "You're my wings both of you", meaning they're both very important to him

Of course we all know the answer to this : ménage à trois !

-Sergorn

[ShadowValkyrie]

In regards to the ship, I think it'll end (if we get a 100% conclusion one way or the other) being Alto and Sheryl, with Ranka moving on as she rediscovers the brother she lost and her new life as a go between for human/Vajra interactions.

In a way it's a sad ending for Sheryl, in that her career and everything she considers "her life" was more or less a manufactured reality-- from a certain POV-- angled towads someone else's agenda.. So I can see Sheryl wanting to move on to actually live a life of her making.

[s-girl]

I liked what Alto say to Sheryl and Ranka "You're my wings both of you", meaning they're both very important to him

Of course we all know the answer to this : ménage à trois !

-Sergorn

True. That was a very touching statement, but more or less every character that "walked alone" in this show ended up in trouble (e.g., Grace who lost RAnshe and Mao and went to the collective, and Leon, who was serving himself).

It's very interesting to me that this show really spent a lot of time showing relationships -- familial, romantic, comraderie, etc.

I think in that sense, this show was doing something so subtle all this time and I didn't pick up on why there was so much emphasis until the last two episodes. (In other words, the "Triangles" are everywhere playing out among the rest of the characters.)

I guess some people are going to still obsess about the pairing, but the point is that all three characters Alto, SHeryl, and Ranka have their weak or annoying moments and the others bring out the good parts. It's a good thing characters didn't have to rely solely on just one other person. Just as Sheryl was motivation to Alto and Ranka to start down their own paths, in the end the two of them brought her the strength she needed when she thought all was said and done.

I almost can reconcile that the necessary ending was no resolution to the triangle because it might send out the wrong message regarding the network of relationships humans need to maintain their sense of purpose or humanity, or to avoid going down the wrong path.

Edited September 27, 2008 by s-girl

[nanoplasm]

Awesome. The Judah system was the AI program that was used in the Sharon Apple Incident. Seems Luca has modified it to be battlefield practical.

I was wrong about the Ghost V-9s though, they sport a red dorsal section and a blue underside, it has both a laser cannon and missiles. Great to see the technologies from Plus being used.

That makes a lot of sense. There is a direct trade-off between the Ghost combat abilities and the highly-unstable self-preservation behavior as seen exhibited by the Ghost X-9. Luca disabled the fail-safe/restrain placed on the Judah system, so his drones can stand a chance against the overwhelming numbers of V-9.

[wolfx]

Luca's slave ships were "inhibited" before.... (Luca states something about the yokes being gone now...)

If you might have noticed, his Ghosts are named after the 12 apostles and Judah(also known as Judas...i checked wiki ) is one of them. You probably can try to fan-wank a theory on how "the traitor" relates to the Ghosts....but the system means the Ghosts were allowed self-autonomy without commands from Luca so they are similar to the X-9 in Macross Plus. So i guess its assumed the very short clip of them going off on their own was to counter the V-9s.

I feel pretty certain after watching the sub that Grace's other collaborators were likely completely obliterated. The mystery of what Galaxy was though still intrigues me. There were obviously human-types around, so did they get blown up with the rest of Galaxy?

That was implied.....assuming they still needed a physical body and have not ascended omni-presence through the fold network.

Does it really matter to Kawamori who Alto chooses? Probably not. I think the key statement made in this episode and the previous one is that humans can't walk alone, no matter who or what they choose.

Well said. And after all Alto says they are both his wings.

The only nagging fear I have is "What happened to Kanaria?" I didn't see her in the final pan/shot of the crew from the Quarter. I hope this gets addressed in the movie release. (I'd like to see an OVA kind of like the Gundam Wing treatment where we got more ending scenes to bring closure to more characters.)

Hey she's there right next to Wilder. Breathe easy now, soldier.

[Final Vegeta]

Are we just going to ignore his line of dialog in episode 24, where he says, "Soon... Soon I'll be able to meet you"?

I think Kawamori was just trolling. It was meant to be anticlimatic. Since the rest of the episode was a perfect climax though I'll forgive him that

Probably Bilra's purpose for building a zero-lag fold net was exactly to find Megaroad-01

So if Ranka was still on Frontier, her original plan will be to use Ranka and Leon on Battle Frontier instead of using Battle Galaxy? That's probably true. She probably did not anticipate Brera throwing out his tracer (whatever that is) and running off with Ranka and neither did she anticipate Sheryl's recovery and ability for fold waves.

Ranka was sortieing in a Monster, making her singing inside Battle Frontier was safer.

FV

[Shun]

I feel pretty certain after watching the sub that Grace's other collaborators were likely completely obliterated. The mystery of what Galaxy was though still intrigues me. There were obviously human-types around, so did they get blown up with the rest of Galaxy?

That's one of the plot thingies that still sort of bugs me.

As for the ship stuff, *shrug*

I still have an opinion that there's an advantage (however short-lived) for Sheryl, but that may or may not last. Really, who cares? Ranka seems to like Alto, but she also seems to like Sheryl (and Sheryl likes Ranka). I don't think of the ending as anything except a friendly rivalry , because Alto for the most part goes flying around BEFORE he lands. I get the feeling people wanted to see him go do something uncharacteristically Alto (or Japanese) and go in for the kill with a kiss or picking a girl.

I love you, you love me?

But he’s head over heels

For his plane, instead of me.

Kyuun kyuun kyuun kyuun

My boyfriend is a pilot.

Alto loves his flying more than both of em

and since we dont see the City section of Galaxy, we can assume the citizens are safe? since those in the Battle section are probably soldiers...

The only nagging fear I have is "What happened to Kanaria?" I didn't see her in the final pan/shot of the crew from the Quarter. I hope this gets addressed in the movie release. (I'd like to see an OVA kind of like the Gundam Wing treatment where we got more ending scenes to bring closure to more characters.)

Kanaria is there beside Captain Jeffrey.

what's interesting are those 3 behind Elmo... are these the Loli-con trio of Frontier? boy-band wannabes?

Edited September 27, 2008 by Shun

[Gubaba]

True. That was a very touching statement, but more or less every character that "walked alone" in this show ended up in trouble (e.g., Grace who lost RAnshe and Mao and went to the collective, and Leon, who was serving himself).

It's very interesting to me that this show really spent a lot of time showing relationships -- familial, romantic, comraderie, etc.

I think in that sense, this show was doing something so subtle all this time and I didn't pick up on why there was so much emphasis until the last two episodes. (In other words, the "Triangles" are everywhere playing out among the rest of the characters.)

I guess some people are going to still obsess about the pairing, but the point is that all three characters Alto, SHeryl, and Ranka have their weak or annoying moments and the others bring out the good parts. It's a good thing characters didn't have to rely solely on just one other person. Just as Sheryl was motivation to Alto and Ranka to start down their own paths, in the end the two of them brought her the strength she needed when she thought all was said and done.

I almost can reconcile that the necessary ending was no resolution to the triangle because it might send out the wrong message regarding the network of relationships humans need to maintain their sense of purpose or humanity, or to avoid going down the wrong path.

Very good points.

Even Sheryl, at the beginning of the show, was serving herself rather than any higher cause. But she took to it quite quickly...unlike Alto's father, and even he showed generosity at the end.

EDIT: For some reason, I'm also reminded of the flashback scene in the MacPlus movie, with Isamu, Myung, and Guld all holding hands and playing with the pterosaur feather...true togetherness and love.

In regards to the ship, I think it'll end (if we get a 100% conclusion one way or the other) being Alto and Sheryl, with Ranka moving on as she rediscovers the brother she lost and her new life as a go between for human/Vajra interactions.

Of course! Kawamori must've just forgotten to put that scene in...

C'mon, man...EMBRACE AMBIGUITY!

Edited September 27, 2008 by Gubaba

[RedWolf]

I love you, you love me?

But he’s head over heels

For his plane, instead of me.

Kyuun kyuun kyuun kyuun

My boyfriend is a pilot.

Alto loves his flying more than both of em

and since we dont see the City section of Galaxy, we can assume the citizens are safe? since those in the Battle section are probably soldiers...

Kanaria is there beside Captain Jeffrey.

what's interesting are those 3 behind Elmo... are these the Loli-con trio of Frontier? boy-band wannabes?

Hmm... Loli and Vanesa did have three kids. Guess their boys wanted to be in both civilian and military worlds.

Thus them joining SMS.

[ShadowValkyrie]

Of course! Kawamori must've just forgotten to put that scene in... tongue.gif

C'mon, man...EMBRACE AMBIGUITY!

No, you can't make me, I refuse

Of course we could all end up with a left field hit and Alto ends up with Klan