Macross Frontier Final Episode Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Shun]

NO. Macross Quarter delivered a "Daedalus Attack" on Battle Galaxy's gunship. Battle Frontier then followed it up with a NMC-sized "Falcon Punch" a.k.a. "Machida Punch."

hmm didn't u guys say the same thing?

BTW, to be real picky.... the original SDF-1's Daedalus Attack was done with the right punch, while the Quarter did a "Macross Attack" with the left arm (would've been a "Prometheus Attack" ). Battle Frontier was using its right punch though...

Anyway, can anyone tell me why Alto bailed out of his VF-171EX and flew it straight at Brera? because he was resigned to the fact that the vf-171ex is no match for vf-27 and he wanted brera to think he was dead (which makes Alto seem like a coward)? or was it for the lame reason of a cliff-hanger for ep 24? when u look at how he got out and then "came back to life" just to say he has evidence - the whole thing is really.... weird. what was he trying to do? and what kind of evidence he has on Leon?

So unless you somehow think they stayed up all night playing pinochle, then it's pretty clear that the two of them slept together.

OMG!! u solved the mystery. So they WERE playing pinochle!!

Edited September 29, 2008 by Shun

[d3v]

Anyway, can anyone tell me why Alto bailed out of his VF-171EX and flew it straight at Brera? because he was resigned to the fact that the vf-171ex is no match for vf-27 and he wanted brera to think he was dead (which makes Alto seem like a coward)? or was it for the lame reason of a cliff-hanger for ep 24? when u look at how he got out and then "came back to life" just to say he has evidence - the whole thing is really.... weird. what was he trying to do? and what kind of evidence he has on Leon?

Well his plane was pretty much shot up at that point, flyable but only as a coffin. Might as well bail out and sue whatever control he had over the craft to distract Brera.

[vanpang]

IMHO, I don't think that is possible given her condition. Luca already said it is transmitted via bodily fluids, remember? So we can rule that out.

As I said, it is a deliberate ploy by SK to ensure that a "fair" and "just" ending is given to both Asian (Ranka's heritage) and Western (Sheryl's heritage) audience that the triangular love is unresolved. I think it is likely that the movie will not resolve it either, for business reasons of course.

I agree, Alto is too indecisive to have sex with Sheryl and I think Sheryl would not do it as well. I recall Sheryl was stomping on ALto's face when she thought she was "violated" when she passed out at Macross Frontier before Michel pops in.

Anyway the whole thing reminds me the whole situation of Archie / Veronica / Betty. Veronica and Betty are love rivals but also good friends

Edited September 29, 2008 by vanpang

[grss1982]

Most of the New Macross Class ships do not look alike. Almost all the NMCs we've seen so far have been different from each other. Other than a few cosmetic differences, the Battle Galaxy looks like a NMC to me. It's the proper size, the proper shape, has all the proper features (like the long legs, the docking bay torso, and the carrier deck forearms) and lastly it has the same gunship as all the other NMCs. The biggest differences seem to be largely stylistic, such as the bridge. The port and starboard amidships (which become the shoulders in Attack Mode) also feature one big cannon each, which is probably the most significant weapon difference from other NMC vessels. The Battle Galaxy is certainly an NMC.

In the real world this would be like the difference between Aircraft Carriers of the Nimitz-class, yes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimitz_class_aircraft_carrier

hmm didn't u guys say the same thing?

snip.....

NOPE. Check here: http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?act=...&pid=665293

did Battle Frontier do a "dedalus attack" on battle galaxy just after Macross Quarter did the attack on Galaxies' cannon?

Edited September 29, 2008 by grss1982

[Mason]

FOLDGASM!

[NoNameSt11]

People keep citing statistics regarding Alto's reticence like, "But Alto never kissed her!" But they keep ignoring WHY Alto never kissed her. Sheryl gives him mixed signals up through episode 22. Every time she acts in a forward manner toward him, she then clams up again and mocks him for suspecting that she might like him. The classic example is episode 10, but there are plenty of other instances. And when she even SUSPECTS that Alto might be making a move on her, she reacts in a defensive manner (case in point, episode 17 when he finds her collapsed outside SMS and smuggles her into his cabin while she's unconscious). So OF COURSE Alto isn't going to try and kiss her instead. Why do people keep ignoring the effect of Sheryl's own actions to discourage Alto? Sheryl does nearly as much to discourage Alto as she does to encourage him, but we never hear anyone argue, "But Sheryl doesn't really like Alto!" or "We can't really be sure if Sheryl likes Alto!"

Open your eyes, people!

Besides, given the way that the scene fades out in episode 22, it's 90% certain that Alto sleeps with her. There are certain scene indicators that you recognize when you've been around long enough. And a scene change with the camera rising away from a couple in privacy toward the night sky is pretty much as big of a clue as a train traveling into a dark tunnel used to be back in the old days of film. Or in other words, Alto did a lot more than just kiss the girl. Just because you didn't see Sheryl naked doesn't mean that the writers didn't blatantly telegraph it. The scene ending tells us, "There's more going on here, but we're going to give the couple their privacy."

So unless you somehow think they stayed up all night playing pinochle, then it's pretty clear that the two of them slept together.

Given the way that things work out, the only time that it might be appropriate for Alto to kiss her would be from episode 23 onward. Unfortunately, in episode 23 Sheryl falls asleep right after their shared dinner, meaning that all that Alto was able to do was to take her upstairs, tuck her in, and go home. Episode 24 has Alto visit her... and Sheryl basically tells him, "Don't tell me whether or not you like me because regardless of the answer I won't be able to do my job." So once again, Alto doesn't have an opportunity to express his feelings.

imo, the answer has been pretty clear since the end of episode 20. Alto talks to Sheryl on the roof, Ranka bursts through the door, bursts into tears, and then runs away. And Alto doesn't run after her. As far as I'm concerned, that's the end of the argument.

The end of episode 25? It's only something that he's been waiting several years to do (episode 12 doesn't count since his plane was brought down). The girls can wait a few minutes. I mean, it's not like he wasn't just talking to Sheryl thirty minutes earlier or something...

Earring/Sniper Rifle - Um, yeah. Actually, it was Clan's sniper rifle at that point. But that's beside the point. If you think that the earring wasn't important, then you need to rekindle a little romance in your soul.

Sniper Rifle - useful instrument of destruction that is capable of blowing holes in heavily armored targets.

Earring - A token of his girlfriend and a sign of her affections. Also has a secondary function of allowing someone to tap into fold wave communications, but Alto and Sheryl clearly aren't thinking about that when she loans it to him.

Assuming they slept together, which I doubt happened, it doesn't mean that he's romantically interested in her. People don't always sleep with somebody because they want a relationship. The roof scene, where Sheryl goes to talk to HIM and Ranka trips a few steps away doesn't mean he cares more for Sheryl. He doesn't get the chance to chase after her immediately because the Vajra show up right after she fell. I don't see how you can just shrug off the ending to the series as "oh he's waiting a few minutes". He didn't pick either. The ear-ring was a device to allow him to save Ranka, not some huge love token given to Alto by Sheryl. He didn't choose Sheryl or Ranka at the end, and shipperfags like you ruin the enjoyment of a series by constantly pushing your favored pairing acting like it's fact. Stop it.

[Chewie]

Was an amazing end to a great series.

[jenius]

Last episode was a mixed bag. I liked it a lot but I didn't like the direction and felt the tempo swings were a bit jarring.

[Gubaba]

People keep citing statistics regarding Alto's reticence like, "But Alto never kissed her!" But they keep ignoring WHY Alto never kissed her. Sheryl gives him mixed signals up through episode 22. Every time she acts in a forward manner toward him, she then clams up again and mocks him for suspecting that she might like him. The classic example is episode 10, but there are plenty of other instances. And when she even SUSPECTS that Alto might be making a move on her, she reacts in a defensive manner (case in point, episode 17 when he finds her collapsed outside SMS and smuggles her into his cabin while she's unconscious). So OF COURSE Alto isn't going to try and kiss her instead. Why do people keep ignoring the effect of Sheryl's own actions to discourage Alto? Sheryl does nearly as much to discourage Alto as she does to encourage him, but we never hear anyone argue, "But Sheryl doesn't really like Alto!" or "We can't really be sure if Sheryl likes Alto!"

That's a fair point. Sheryl is nothing if not intimidating. But you'd think that while she was kissing him, he'd show some kind of pleasure, wouldn't you? Instead, the poor boy just looks like deer in the headlights, even towards the end of the series.

Besides, given the way that the scene fades out in episode 22, it's 90% certain that Alto sleeps with her. There are certain scene indicators that you recognize when you've been around long enough. And a scene change with the camera rising away from a couple in privacy toward the night sky is pretty much as big of a clue as a train traveling into a dark tunnel used to be back in the old days of film. Or in other words, Alto did a lot more than just kiss the girl. Just because you didn't see Sheryl naked doesn't mean that the writers didn't blatantly telegraph it. The scene ending tells us, "There's more going on here, but we're going to give the couple their privacy."

So unless you somehow think they stayed up all night playing pinochle, then it's pretty clear that the two of them slept together.

Others have answered this one, so I'll just remind everyone. V-Virus. Bodily Fluids. Contagious. Certain death.

Unless Alto had a body condom, I doubt it happened.

Given the way that things work out, the only time that it might be appropriate for Alto to kiss her would be from episode 23 onward. Unfortunately, in episode 23 Sheryl falls asleep right after their shared dinner, meaning that all that Alto was able to do was to take her upstairs, tuck her in, and go home. Episode 24 has Alto visit her... and Sheryl basically tells him, "Don't tell me whether or not you like me because regardless of the answer I won't be able to do my job." So once again, Alto doesn't have an opportunity to express his feelings.

Shucks. Just when there's something that could have happened that would prove your point, it stubbornly refused to happen. Oh well. She does kiss him again in episode 24, though. And he still looks shocked. Not exactly the response Sheryl might want from someone who supposedly slept with her a matter of days before, is it?

imo, the answer has been pretty clear since the end of episode 20. Alto talks to Sheryl on the roof, Ranka bursts through the door, bursts into tears, and then runs away. And Alto doesn't run after her. As far as I'm concerned, that's the end of the argument.

Others' results may vary.

The end of episode 25? It's only something that he's been waiting several years to do (episode 12 doesn't count since his plane was brought down). The girls can wait a few minutes. I mean, it's not like he wasn't just talking to Sheryl thirty minutes earlier or something...

I agree completely.

Earring/Sniper Rifle - Um, yeah. Actually, it was Clan's sniper rifle at that point. But that's beside the point. If you think that the earring wasn't important, then you need to rekindle a little romance in your soul.

Sniper Rifle - useful instrument of destruction that is capable of blowing holes in heavily armored targets.

Earring - A token of his girlfriend and a sign of her affections. Also has a secondary function of allowing someone to tap into fold wave communications, but Alto and Sheryl clearly aren't thinking about that when she loans it to him.

Uh-huh. Did you read where I said that Alto loves and cares for Sheryl deeply? What's he gonna do, say, "I like you a lot but I'm not gonna take your stinkin' earring?" If you give someone you love a precious token, and they accept it, they're saying they want to stay with you forever? If so, I'm going to be stingier with my gifts...

Look, I really don't want to argue this anymore. We clearly don't agree here. I think the writers are trying to balance the love triangle; you say they are providing subtle hints that he chose Sheryl. The former makes more sense to me as a narrative strategy; as I said before, it's a classic "Lady or the Tiger" ending, and an unresolved love triangle is something we've seen before in Macross. The latter seems like bad writing; building up the love triangle and providing resolution, but making it so subtle that only people who really REALLY want Sheryl to end up with Alto can see it.

Plus, I like Sheryl. I like her a lot. I like her more than I like Ranka. But I keep getting painted as a Ranka shipper by the same two or three people here, and I'm tired of it.

But whatever. If the movie is a continuation of the story, and Alto is going out with Sheryl at that point, I'll be proven wrong, for whatever that's worth. You can start a "Gubaba's an Idiot!" thread at that time, if you so desire. But if the triangle is STILL unresolved at that point, then clearly the TV show wasn't the end of it.

We'll find out, eventually.

Maybe.

[Shaka_Z]

well... I must stand and admit it (not that I havent before): I am a Sheryl Shipper

that said, I feel compelled to make the observation that the scene between sheryl and ranka at the end of 25 might not have necessarily been inconclusive, depending on what you read between the lines. basically I think that ranka's statement that she wouldnt lose to sheryl in song or love doesnt necessarily include alto in the love part - there is a certain parallel with ranka/alto compared to mao/shin. She still loves alto, but I think she may have started to put him in a similar spot in her heart as brera.

I think ranka has determined that it has stopped being about who either of them loves, but about the strength and sincerity of the feeling. this came about once she realized that sheryl truly loves alto (in a romantic sense) when she said that 'the idiot has gone flying' - a part of alto that ranka still couldnt connect* with fully even after having alto explain it to her before she left frontier, while sheryl has connected with it since almost the beginning. if there had been an ex-gear right there, I am quite sure that sheryl would have got right in and flown** with him - she might love it when he carries her aloft, but that isnt a relationship of equals is it? I dont see sheryl as ever being truly satisfied with being cargo, and I seriously doubt ranka would have been inclined to fly herself.

alto OTOH made it clear in ep 24 when he said that 'one should never fly alone'... look at this as being literal truth for him - he may love flying, but without someone to share it with (who loves it as well) that love is somewhat empty for him.

notes:

* after alto explained his love of flying to her, ranka understands it logically, but still doesnt share his passion for it in any sense. he however did awaken a dormant passion for flight in sheryl, which is why she connects with him so well. all it took was that first unscheduled excursion in the concert hall - no wordy explanation necessary.

** this assumes that she managed to get that far in her courses at mihoshi before all the crap started happening **

Edited September 29, 2008 by Shaka_Z

[Shouta]

And Nexx Stalker is right. As nice as [gg] are for being fast, they are not always the most accurate. Personally, I prefer [shinsen-subs], as they are the most accurate out of the ones currently available. Sadly, the ones who were the most accurate, [AiA I-Z], stopped at episode 10...

I should point out that I was as accurate as I could hear it and had to cross-reference a lot of Macross details. I still made mistakes in the eps I translated before I stopped. Unlike everyone else, I was translating by ear up until I stopped where as all the other groups were using the closed captions to translate the show.

For every "Sheryl won" clue you could come up, I'm sure someone could find a "Ranka won" hint. And yeah, I guess I need big neon letters to explain why niggling Sheryl hints are superior to niggling Ranka hints.

Based purely on scenes, it'd be Sheryl over Ranka. Based on Alto's attitude, it can be a toss up. I said earlier that you could make a case for Ranka but that's purely based on Alto's attitude. Being willing to kill Ranka can be a sign of how much he cares for her. Looking at all the scenes though it's Sheryl that comes out on top, pun intended. More scenes with Alto and he made two promises to her, to be by her side until the end and that he'll come back from battle alive.

We could parse Alto's character and analyze his actions but that'd probably be a big loop (although I came to a conclusion on my own). So really it comes down to what you perceive as the stronger emotion of the two and that'd affect who you think he'd pick. Really though, it's an unknown because they didn't give a concrete answer as to who he picked.

Edited September 29, 2008 by Shouta

[dreamweaver13]

I FRACKING LOVE MACROSS!!!!!! :D

I have been away for sooo long. way before ep25 came out, i already decided that i wanted to watch it for the first time with subs. it being the last episode, i didn't want to come out of it with anything less than FULL understanding. hence, the wait. and i purposely avoided any contact with MW since thursday, just to avoid the slightest hint of a spoiler.

On the other hand, i knew I was going to miss out on some fantastic talkback and discussions on the final episode. Man, how i missed posting here and listening to the comments. i'm gonna be left out. after all this time, where we posted our thougts on the episode immediately, i wold hold back on the final one. arg. it tested my patience to the limit. an honest-to-god marshmallow test, indeed!

But all in all, i think it was worth it. i have yet to consolidate my thoughts, but all i know (before any analysis), is that I LOVED this episode! I enjoyed it thoroughly! I'm not sure yet if it's because i'm a macross fan (and there were a LOT of references thrown around that i had to be quick on my feet to keep up with all of them), or the last episode simply stood out on its own as a fantastic one. yes, despite the fact that that idiot alto didn't make a choice between the two (and that the two didn't seem to mind at all). after all, although i hoped for a sheryl ending, i knew it was possible for the triangle to be unresolved. alto just likes his flying. and his new earring. he's soooo GAY.

it's probably gonna take me the rest of the day to sift through all the talkback, and the other threads, all of which i'm sure have considerably lengthened since my self-imposed exile. so until then, just a few scenes that almost drove me nuts with excitement (actually, almost the whole episode drove me nuts, but...):

- Macross 11 and Macross City!!! OMFG!

- Ghost V-9s!!! Wahooo!!!

- Luca releasing the limiters on his Ghosts "releasing the strength that drove fear into Macross City"! wow. finally, something cool from Luca.

- Mecha porn. valk porn!! amazing battle scenes!! i just can't pinpoint each and everyone of them. all of them were SPECTACULAR, and each with the noticable nod to older series.

-human/vajra team up. awww so beautifully done!

- Ranka going Hikaru on sheryl. complete with the after-slap pose. (but still, ranka, how dare you?? you just wanted to get even, didn't you??)

- song medley FTW!!

Stuff that almost drove me nuts with their mystery:

- Grace's speech about Protoculture fearing and even emulating the Vajra queen. so the PC faced the Vajra, and lost, and used some of the designs for themselves? so the birdman is a vajra copycat made by the PC?

- so Birler is really just another Dr. Chiba? or.... is he someone from Minmay's past?

and, while it didn't really drive me nuts, i just still have to say it:

- Alto, you idiot.

- hey ranka, you dared slap Sheryl??? hehe.

Ok time to read!

[Shaka_Z]

as to the bit about sheryl being intimidating, and alto's deer in headlights look when she get aggressive:

I think she has a naughty habit of launching surprise lip-lock attacks on him when he least expects it. couple that with his apparently conservative japanese upbringing - where he would be most comfortable being the aggressor - and you can understand his reaction... sheryl has developed the 'shock and awe' technique to dizzying heights. note that *if* the kiss in his mother's room happened, it serves to illustrate his comfort with being the aggressor/initiator of that kind of thing. when she turns up the heat, she probably causes a lot of his brains higher functions to short out, leaving what's left to wonder why her kissing him is making his toes curl. she then misinterprets his inaction as lack of interest and backs off before his brain can reboot.

yes thats right... alto's brain runs on windows

[sketchley]

Shouta = [AiA I-Z]?

Well, given my (limited) Japanese abilities and the English words used in the translation, yours has been the most accurate subs so far.

Personally, I think translating by ear is a bit better, as there are things like emotion, tone of voice, etc. that are not present in a script.

I should point out that I was as accurate as I could hear it and had to cross-reference a lot of Macross details. I still made mistakes in the eps I translated before I stopped. Unlike everyone else, I was translating by ear up until I stopped where as all the other groups were using the closed captions to translate the show.

[Shouta]

Shouta = [AiA I-Z]?

Well, given my (limited) Japanese abilities and the English words used in the translation, yours has been the most accurate subs so far.

Personally, I think translating by ear is a bit better, as there are things like emotion, tone of voice, etc. that are not present in a script.

I'm I-Z. I was the translator for our version of the project. I'm sure I saw you on the forums when I was still subbing it and actively posting on here weekly.

Anyway, I meant that they had the script to translate while they watched the show, I assume anyway. It would've made it easier for me to fiddle with the correct wording and tone if I hadn't been using my energy to hear what they said when I was working on it.

[kensei]

Personally, GGs level of accuracy for the time spent is perfect for me. Perfect compromise between accuracy and speed.

I must say that one of the best moments WAS when Ranka started to sing Anata no Oto. Really captured the moment. I only wish that the last song was one strong good clear version of both her and Ranka doing Lion.

[wolfx]

junior please stop speculating that Sheryl had sex with Alto because Sheryl is aware of her condition.

V-type is transmitted by blood and fluids. Sheryl is careful about that.

Well done.

Its obvious that the majority of the fandom are sheryl shippers and majority means they tend to attract more ppl who are blind to everything else except cases that support their shipped object.

In this case i support Redwolf. There's no way Sheryl will have sex with Alto since she was so concious of her disease and not even wanting Alto to come near her bleeding finger what more her intimate parts. Get a grip, junior.

If you've watched enough harem anime with harem ends, you'll know this is the classic harem end formula. Undecided guy will always want to hold all eggs in his basket, some girls seem close to winning him but in the end, no particular girl succeeds (though the childhood friend always comes close) and they all love him and share him with the other parties with a "Makeinai" speech at the end.

Besides if you ask Kawamori, i'm sure he'll give you some strange cryptic answer.....like questions about Ranka's hair.

[Sergorn]

Based purely on scenes, it'd be Sheryl over Ranka. Based on Alto's attitude, it can be a toss up. I said earlier that you could make a case for Ranka but that's purely based on Alto's attitude. Being willing to kill Ranka can be a sign of how much he cares for her.

Yeah exactly.I think this scene basically proves Alto's feeling for Ranka... he pretty much says that *everything* he's been doing since the start of the series, he's been doing FOR Ranka, but that he's basically been running away the whole time. Hell this even goes with what Ozma says a couple episode earlier - that a MAN has to protect the women he loves. And the fact that Alto is willing to kill Ranka, in spite of his feelings for her is what make the scene so heartbreaking. And clearly that's how Klan and Sheryl both interpret Alto's comments as well. Indeed I'm not quite sure sure how the scene could be interpreted differently - and for me that's far more conclusive than any of the "hints" leaning toward Sheryl. Maybe Sheryl Shippers just hate Ranka so much that they refuse to see the obvious

Of course we do]see Alto spending lot of time with Sheryl, of course he cares deeply for her and knowing that she is going to die really hurts him... but that doesn't mean he loves her. Hell, just look at Macross Plus : Myung spent a night with Guld, Isamu spent a night with Lucy... yet in the end Myung 's and Ismasu's true feelings were for one another - they were just running away from it. Just like Alto.

-Sergorn

[Gubaba]

Yeah exactly.I think this scene basically proves Alto's feeling for Ranka... he pretty much says that *everything* he's been doing since the start of the series, he's been doing FOR Ranka, but that he's basically been running away the whole time. Hell this even goes with what Ozma says a couple episode earlier - that a MAN has to protect the women he loves. And the fact that Alto is willing to kill Ranka, in spite of his feelings for her is what make the scene so heartbreaking. And clearly that's how Klan and Sheryl both interpret Alto's comments as well. Indeed I'm not quite sure sure how the scene could be interpreted differently - and for me that's far more conclusive than any of the "hints" leaning toward Sheryl. Maybe Sheryl Shippers just hate Ranka so much that they refuse to see the obvious

Of course we do]see Alto spending lot of time with Sheryl, of course he cares deeply for her and knowing that she is going to die really hurts him... but that doesn't mean he loves her. Hell, just look at Macross Plus : Myung spent a night with Guld, Isamu spent a night with Lucy... yet in the end Myung 's and Ismasu's true feelings were for one another - they were just running away from it. Just like Alto.

-Sergorn

Predictably, I think that's going too far as well...yes, he loves Ranka. He also loves Sheryl. I just don't think he wants to marry either of them, or even "go steady" with them.

At least, not yet.

[Graham]

In this case i support Redwolf. There's no way Sheryl will have sex with Alto since she was so concious of her disease and not even wanting Alto to come near her bleeding finger what more her intimate parts. Get a grip, junior.

Perhaps that should read "There's no way Sheryl will have unprotected sex with Alto".

Presumably they still have condoms in 2059, or perhaps by then the technology exists for the more secure 'pin-point-barrier-doms' (PPBD).

Graham

[wolfx]

Perhaps that should read "There's no way Sheryl will have unprotected sex with Alto".

Presumably they still have condoms in 2059, or perhaps by then the technology exists for the more secure 'pin-point-barrier-doms' (PPBD).

Graham

That made my day.

[Gubaba]

Perhaps that should read "There's no way Sheryl will have unprotected sex with Alto".

Presumably they still have condoms in 2059, or perhaps by then the technology exists for the more secure 'pin-point-barrier-doms' (PPBD).

Graham

Awww, man...I wish you hadn't said that. I just got an image of Pin-Point Barrier Condoms stopping an...um..."man-made" Itano Circus...

[Shouta]

Yeah exactly.I think this scene basically proves Alto's feeling for Ranka... he pretty much says that *everything* he's been doing since the start of the series, he's been doing FOR Ranka, but that he's basically been running away the whole time. Hell this even goes with what Ozma says a couple episode earlier - that a MAN has to protect the women he loves. And the fact that Alto is willing to kill Ranka, in spite of his feelings for her is what make the scene so heartbreaking. And clearly that's how Klan and Sheryl both interpret Alto's comments as well. Indeed I'm not quite sure sure how the scene could be interpreted differently - and for me that's far more conclusive than any of the "hints" leaning toward Sheryl. Maybe Sheryl Shippers just hate Ranka so much that they refuse to see the obvious

Of course we do]see Alto spending lot of time with Sheryl, of course he cares deeply for her and knowing that she is going to die really hurts him... but that doesn't mean he loves her. Hell, just look at Macross Plus : Myung spent a night with Guld, Isamu spent a night with Lucy... yet in the end Myung 's and Ismasu's true feelings were for one another - they were just running away from it. Just like Alto.

-Sergorn

On the other hand, one could interpret Alto's emotions to be one of a friend unwilling to let another friend be put through that kind of pain and anguish.

Personally, I see Alto's actions leading him to pick Sheryl. As much as Alto is spineless wombat at times, his actions are much more indicative of stronger romantic feelings for Sheryl whereas his attitude towards Ranka is often more of a friend and comrade than anything else. His resolution to kill Ranka could be seen as a friend doing it for a friend and him willing to overlook the fact that she betrayed him. Of course, there's the Ozma comment but one could argue that for either girl. However, there really is no way that you could construe Alto's actions with Sheryl to be just friends.

That's the feeling I got whenever I saw Alto and Ranka together (aside from wanting to punch Ranka in the face). As I see it, Ranka and Alto are comrades in wanting to achieve their dreams, Alto and Sheryl share the same feelings and experiences together and most of the scenes involving the pairs looked like that from the very beginning to me.

Of course, it's a bit up to interpretation but eh, this argument will be an endless circle like the one about whether Mylene would choose Basara or Gamlin.

[tankf77]

Is the "Vajra superqueen" alive in the first place? How can she be controlled by Grace so easily??

[Xeros]

to put it simple, the queen was"hacked" by grace or something like that. The big mistake of grace is that she connect to the queen by the head

[tankf77]

to put it simple, the queen was"hacked" by grace or something like that. The big mistake of grace is that she connect to the queen by the head

I see, which brings Brera to tell Alto that the Vajra thinks with their belly instead of their head. So, severing the head is unlikely to kill the "superqueen" I presume?

[Gubaba]

I see, which brings Brera to tell Alto that the Vajra thinks with their belly instead of their head. So, severing the head is unlikely to kill the "superqueen" I presume?

You presume correctly.

[kensei]

Perhaps that should read "There's no way Sheryl will have unprotected sex with Alto".

Presumably they still have condoms in 2059, or perhaps by then the technology exists for the more secure 'pin-point-barrier-doms' (PPBD).

Graham

Being in the military, I'm sure that there is a big stash of them for him to use, who knows, maybe it comes standard with his uniform for those unexpected encounters.

[dreamweaver13]

There were so many nods to the fans throughout this series that I began to realize something: WE are Richard Bilrer. Sort of like the Flower Girl in Macross 7, he is a personification of us - the viewer/the old school, diehard fans of the original; the people who ALWAYS ask Kawamori "Where's Minmay? Will we ever hear from her again?" We are on this quest to find out what happened to our dear friends on the Megaroad-01. It's nice to see that there's an in-universe character who is also on the same journey. I think this was Kawamori's way of saying "they are out there, and I know you guys miss them. Perhaps some day." Bilrer hoping to see Minmay is very similar to US wanting to see her. And getting that little glimpse of her in the locket was Kawamori's acknowledgment of that.

I'm sorry. I know this post was way back in page 20, and that most of you may have commented on it already, but hey, it's a fantastic way of looking at it. yes, i DO believe Richard Bilrer could represent all of us macross fans who want to see something like SDFM again. and with the way this series ended, i happily close my "locket" of SDFM memories with bliss and satisfaction.

Even in this time, macross fans have a name. My name is Richard Bilrer! My name is Richard Bilrer!

Ok... on with the backreading...

[RichterX]

Perhaps that should read "There's no way Sheryl will have unprotected sex with Alto".

Presumably they still have condoms in 2059, or perhaps by then the technology exists for the more secure 'pin-point-barrier-doms' (PPBD).

Graham

well... wouldn't that make quite a special Macross Attack?

[RichterX]

I see, which brings Brera to tell Alto that the Vajra thinks with their belly instead of their head. So, severing the head is unlikely to kill the "superqueen" I presume?

If you guys recall in early episodes Vajra's that got their head blown off would still continue to fight. Also the belly of that Vajra Leon had in the containment tank started to shine as it regenerated and woke up again from Ranka's singing.

[brouken]

Whew! What an episode! And what a ride it has been for all of us who went on this journey!

Omedetou Kawamori-san! Naka-naka o-migoto na sakuhin desu! Manzoku na o-shimai desu! Hontou ni arigatou gozaimasu!

Now I know what SMS truly stands for: Search for Minmay Service!

Virler = Vrlithai?

[yaiba]

And someone in IRC pointed out.....Alto's indecision now made Michel's death more meaningless since he died while knocking some sense into Alto about being decisive.

I think he drew a more important conclusion from Michel's death. That declarations of love are fatal. He didn't make a choice, and everybody got to live. QED.

[dreamweaver13]

Speaking of eyes...does Nanase still have a right eye or not?

Screw the love triangle, I want resolution to THAT mystery!

Btw, my heartfelt sympathies. While she is certainly alive and headed for full recovery, the glaring lack of airtime given to Nanase must suck. man, if this were a live action drama, i would think that Nanase's character asked for a raise, and the producers simply put her in a coma until the end to keep her docile. yikes.

of course, it's certauinly hard to fit in a Nanase reawakening part in all that compressed action, but still... ouch.

What I think really emphasizes this point is how one of his Ghosts, despite being in autonomous mode, sacrifices itself to save him by intercepting a shot, without him apparently even noticing. This was ultimately a vindication for his belief that AI wasn't inherently evil, that it could be loyal and selfless, too. The reputation of AI will probably be rehabilitated in any future Macross series; kinda an odd spin on one of the messages of Macross Plus.

So... sharon apple loves Luca more now than Isamu? hehe. Good points, though. the Sharon Apple AI just wanted to be given a second chance.

noticed that minmay pic in Bilrer's ring (your avatar)? she looks sad...

of course she's sad. that's her DYRL outfit. 10 minutes after Hikaru dumped her for an older lady. ouch.

Sheryl x Ranka End

Love Triangle Solved!

FTW!!! ya know, Ranka sure knows where to place her head. softest and fluffiest part, i bet. lol!

Very clever...resolving the love triangle for those smart enough (like Sheryl fans) to get it, but subtle enough so that stupid people (like Ranka fans) will miss it.

C'mon, man...it's unresolved. It's meant to be unresolved, and no matter how many little clues you think you find, it will always be unresolved.

Until the movie. Maybe.

OH COME ON!! it's resolved! it's so obvious! if you look at the final scene, alto is not actually in the middle of the 2 girls as they rush in to meet him. he's actually 10cm closer to Sheryl, if you pause the screen and measure the distances. and if you zoom into alto's face at a 250% resolution, you'll notice that his eyeballs are ever so slightly leaning towards his left, which would be the direction where Sheryl is coming from!

See it's all clear! Why can't all of you see it??!!

(Ok in case someone doesn't get that i'm fooling around... i made all those measurements up. hehe. but you're welcome to measure, if you want. )

But getting away from in-universe explanations for a moment, I suspect that the writers deliberately tried to make the love triangle as equal as possible, a real "Lady or the Tiger" ending, and I think they did a good job of it. If someone can say, "Oh, obviously, Alto picked X, and here's why," then to that extent, the writers failed. To say that they are secretly indicating Alto chose one or the other...well, that just doesn't seem to fit with how carefully they made sure that neither girl had the upper hand for long.

That's why I don't buy any of these supposed hints, and until someone can give me something more substantial than "Alto was going to tell Sheryl that he loves her," or "Alto was going to tell Sheryl that he loves Ranka," or "Alto only saluted Sheryl," or "After the salute, Alto gave a キラ☆! sign," I'm going to say that the love triangle was left deliberately unresolved.

Ok here's a secret from a long-time Sheryl-shipper... it's just between you and me...

Episode 24 came and went, and i was still hoping for a AltoxSheryl ending. although i already knew it was possible that there would be no resolution, the strong possibility of a sherylxalto ending still loomed in the horizon.

But the moment Ep 25 kicked in, with the way the story was going and developing, 15 minutes into ep25 i already KNEW that the triangle resolution would be open-ended. I got it from Alto's attitude, Sheryl's behavior, Ranka's reactions. Somehow, at that point, a SherylxAlto just didn't feel right. (yes, this was before alto called both of them "his wings"). Somehow, it felt that Alto suddenly choosing Sheryl over Ranka would be out of character for him, and totally inconsistent. the pace the story was going also played a big part. somehow, a resolution where Ranka is saved, but alto would suddenly talks to her to tell her that it was Sheryl all along, didn't suit me. it would feel off actually.

Bottom line: i'm not as pissed off by a non-sherylxalto ending as i thought i would be. rather, it felt actually right this time. maybe they'll resolve it later, maybe they won't. but all i can say is that Alto finally enjoying what he's waited for all his life (flying in a real sky, with only an ex-gear) feels like a perfect ending. hey, ranka (getting back a family and singing) and sheryl (staying alive and singing like Minmay) got their wishes, why can't alto?

Agreed. Possibly the most epic 24 mins of anime I have ever witnessed

Agreed ten times over!!

I stand by my original assertion. He loves both of them, he cares very deeply for both of them. And yes, he feels some attraction for both of them. But he doesn't really want to "be" with either of them.

EDIT: And yes, he wore Shery's panties, but only because they were the ones Ai-kun stole. AltoxAi-kun FTW!!!

for now. wait til he gets tired of flying... hehe.

DAMN, i knew there was a weird look in Alto's face when he was about to shoot Ai-kun. it was LUV!!

Anyway the whole thing reminds me the whole situation of Archie / Veronica / Betty. Veronica and Betty are love rivals but also good friends

Oh NO!! that would imply that the love triangle would remain unresolved for eternity!! which is pretty much the case, i think. hehe. weird analogy though, but i can see how it works.

Perhaps that should read "There's no way Sheryl will have unprotected sex with Alto".

Presumably they still have condoms in 2059, or perhaps by then the technology exists for the more secure 'pin-point-barrier-doms' (PPBD).

Graham

OMG!! this one is full of win!!! made my day, you did, good sir.

Edited September 29, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[dreamweaver13]

Now I know what SMS truly stands for: Search for Minmay Service!

sure looks that way, don't it.

Virler = Vrlithai?

So the moment Elmo sees Bilrer:

*gulp* "D-d-dad?"