Macross Frontier Final Episode Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Duke Togo]

We must have seen two different shows, then.

You got out of it what you got out of it, I got out of it what I did. It wasn't conclusive to me that they would become a couple.

[Duke Togo]

Yes? Ok perhaps I misread what you meant when you said "they came before". It never literally said which was first in the galaxy, Vajra, or PC. Which is what I what I thought you said, but I realize you meant it in a context of "they were greater than the PC".

I had to edit my post because I forgot the line of dialog that was key. But I wasn't fast enough, clearly.

And then Ranka goes on to explain that Aimo is a Vajra love song, a mating call when Vajra from other galaxies meet once in "hundreds of millions of years".

Could this be ANY more clear?

Edited September 28, 2008 by Duke Togo

[Nexx Stalker]

"With the power which even the Protoculture feared, adored, and defied, to the extent of imitating its form, the Super Dimenion life form, Vajra!"

And then Ranka goes on to explain that Aim is a Vajra love song, a mating call when Vajra from other galaxies meet once in "hundreds of millions of years".

Could this be ANY more clear?

What's a Dimenion?

[Duke Togo]

What's a Dimenion?

Would you like me to go back and fix my typo for you? Would that make you feel better?

I assume your the type who still calls it "Super Dimensional", as well.

[VF-25 Messiah]

I had to edit my post because I forgot the line of dialog that was key. But I wasn't fast enough, clearly.

Fine, I yield, as I checking up on the age of the PC, learn their civilization is a mere 1 million years old.

[Nexx Stalker]

Would you like me to go back and fix my typo for you? Would that make you feel better?

I assume your the type who still calls it "Super Dimensional", as well.

You're assuming too much.

My point is that you assume that GG subs are the gospel. You made a spelling mistake, they could have made a translation error. If you know Japanese, then be my guest.

But you may just answer "you're assuming too much", right?

Edited September 28, 2008 by Nexx Stalker

[Duke Togo]

For more clarification, according to the Macross Compendium, year zero on the Protoculture calendar for us is 500,00 BCE. If the Vajra are meeting with other groups within the galaxy (not galaxies, my bad) every few hundreds of millions of years, I think that this would prove that the Vajra predate the Protoculture.

[Duke Togo]

But you may just answer "you're assuming too much", right?

No, I'd say "you assume too much", with a forced fake accent.

[Final Vegeta]

My point is that you assume that GG subs are the gospel. You made a spelling mistake, they could have made a translation error. If you know Japanese, then be my guest.

It's chojiku seimeitai, "Superdimensional life form". gg are correct enough, they use Close Captions. And frankly, it even makes sense.

FV

[Sergorn]

Of course, my question still stands, where were the Vajra when the Stellar Republic was being ripped apart by civil war? They don't seem to shy away from conflict.

I was under the impression that the reason the conflict started between Frontier and the Vajra was because Grace and the Galaxy lead them there... It's possible there are not actually the kind to go look FOR conflict.

-Sergorn

[sketchley]

Predate? Highly probably.

In the Milky Way galaxy before the Protocultures? Not clear.

Given that the Vajra are attracted to humans by song, it's entirely possible that the Vajra were initially attracted to the Milky Way galaxy by the Protoculture's song.

We will have to wait until further materials are released before this is clarified.

And Nexx Stalker is right. As nice as [gg] are for being fast, they are not always the most accurate. Personally, I prefer [shinsen-subs], as they are the most accurate out of the ones currently available. Sadly, the ones who were the most accurate, [AiA I-Z], stopped at episode 10...

[ShadowValkyrie]

No. Watch again, read what was said again. The Vajra came before the Protoculture. The Protoculture were in awe of the Vajra. The Protoculture were inspired by them.

Yes, and that doesn't mean that the Queen's "throne" wasn't a by product of the Protoculture experimenting in getting closer to "god"-- to use a word. Remember the PC seem to trend toward playing with genetics like a kid plays with legos, why should they're own race be any different.

I think you really missed what happened at the end of this series.

Oh I get what happened, I'm talking about probabilities should SK ever want to explore the mystery of the Megaroad 01. If he goes down that road, potentially the Vajra homeworld could be marked as a clue in that search.

Edited September 28, 2008 by ShadowValkyrie

[VF-25 Messiah]

For more clarification, according to the Macross Compendium, year zero on the Protoculture calendar for us is 500,00 BCE. If the Vajra are meeting with other groups within the galaxy (not galaxies, my bad) every few hundreds of millions of years, I think that this would prove that the Vajra predate the Protoculture.

Actually sounds to me like their mating habits are intergalactical.

Edited September 28, 2008 by VF-25 Messiah

[Final Vegeta]

Yes, and that doesn't mean that the Queen's "throne" wasn't a by product of the Protoculture experimenting in getting closer to "god"-- to use a word. Remember the PC seem to trend toward playing with genetics like a kids plays with legos, why should they're on race be any different.

I think the "throne" was built by the Vajra for the same reason bees build their hives.

FV

Edited September 28, 2008 by Final Vegeta

[Duke Togo]

Predate? Highly probably.

In the Milky Way galaxy before the Protocultures? Not clear.

Given that the Vajra are attracted to humans by song, it's entirely possible that the Vajra were initially attracted to the Milky Way galaxy by the Protoculture's song.

We will have to wait until further materials are released before this is clarified.

No no, you're right on that. But you can't deny that the Protoculture's ship and mecha designs were heavily influenced by the Vajra. We can probably assume they cane first at this point, but we won't really know for sure until we get more information in the official chronology.

[sketchley]

Yes, Japanese can be vague at times. 銀河 could be translated as the Milky Way, (a) Galaxy, or even Galaxies, depending on the context.

As the context was a pair of galaxies with Vajra of two different colours heading towards each other, I take it to have meant different galaxies. Add to that their Super dimensional nature, they may very well be travelling to other dimensions as well!

[Duke Togo]

Oh I get what happened, I'm talking about probabilities should SK ever want to explore the mystery of the Megaroad 01. If he goes down that road, potentially the Vajra homeworld could be marked as a clue in that search.

Hmm, I dunno, I can't imagine the PC homeworld being so close to the Vajra homeworld, considering their fear and awe of them. Don't know if the Protoculture would have made it as far as they did with the Vajra presence that close to home. I'm not even sure the Megaroad-01 came anywhere near a Protoculture world. Hell, they may have purposefully dropped off the map to start fresh on some virgin world someplace. Who knows!

Edited September 28, 2008 by Duke Togo

[Nexx Stalker]

It's chojiku seimeitai, "Superdimensional life form". gg are correct enough, they use Close Captions. And frankly, it even makes sense.

FV

It was not about that word in particular nor on GG correctness, it was a general statement.

[Nexx Stalker]

No, I'd say "you assume too much", with a forced fake accent.

Hibiki and Sylvie.

[Major Focker]

Of course, my question still stands, where were the Vajra when the Stellar Republic was being ripped apart by civil war? They don't seem to shy away from conflict.

theory: vajra mating cycles take eons. they might also have a hibernation cycle that takes eons and coincided with civil war, thus they were out of the picture.

or at that time they might have gone to another galaxy to mate as they are not restricted to one galaxy as PC tech is (as far as we know). the vajra might actually have departed, to answer a booty call in another galaxy, before the civil war thus paving the way for the PC rise to power in this galaxy. the PC might have encountered the vajra, when the PC were still just a nascent civilization (ie. not primitive as in caveman, rather, already space-faring but relatively early in their galactic expansion as the humans are by the time of MF). the vajra encounter could've inspired the PC and provided another leap-frog in PC tech, but either the encounter was brief or the PC simply did not have enough time or contact with the vajra to sufficiently understand and emulate vajra tech prior to the departure, hence PC tech is "imperfect" (eg. PC fold capabilities are inferior to vajra fold) but the PC kept trying to develop anyway leading to their distinct flavor of PC tech with vajra influences. a brief encounter and the departure may also provide a basis of why the PC view of the vajra is almost mythological. they were basically a young race apparently deserted by their gods, but were left with the gift of fire (or fold in this case). without the vajra around, the stellar republic rose to become the dominant power in the galaxy, but collapsed and disappeared by the time the vajra returned from their honeymoon.

all theory of course..

[Duke Togo]

Hibiki and Sylvie.

I was thinking Natalie Portman, but hey!

[chillyche]

I think the mistake he made was having Bilrer obsessing over Minmay at the end of this series. Kawamori cracked the door back open again, even if it wasn't his intention to do so. He's going to get more questions on it now than he ever has.

That's funny, I didn't take the image of Minmay to mean anything about the Megaroad. Here's this old Zentran dude, who was probably around during SWO, and may have had his mind blown by Minmay's song, it wouldn't surprise me if lots of Zentradi had a thing for her. Beyond that, she represents the power of song in the Macross universe, as well as this ability to connect cultures, and indeed civilizations, over gaps of time and space.

Sure a part of me is curious whatever happened to those folks on the Megaroad, but I think SK has said time and time again that he's not going to follow those characters again (though this doesn't rule out hinting at, or exploring the fate of their ship) so I'm not sweating it.

[ShadowValkyrie]

That's funny, I didn't take the image of Minmay to mean anything about the Megaroad. Here's this old Zentran dude, who was probably around during SWO, and may have had his mind blown by Minmay's song, it wouldn't surprise me if lots of Zentradi had a thing for her. Beyond that, she represents the power of song in the Macross universe, as well as this ability to connect cultures, and indeed civilizations, over gaps of time and space.

Sure a part of me is curious whatever happened to those folks on the Megaroad, but I think SK has said time and time again that he's not going to follow those characters again (though this doesn't rule out hinting at, or exploring the fate of their ship) so I'm not sweating it.

Well isn't that some of the fun, at least for me, with Macross's "universe". The more questions that get answered, the more questions pop up to be answered. The fun isn't necessarily in getting the answers, it's in the ride in the search for the answers. As much fun as it is to theorize and guess at what this or that bit of dialog or footage "really means", it wouldn't be as much fun is there wasn't a mystery to play around with.

Then again, I'm one of those people that loves a good mystery and gets a little disappointed if a story wraps up all nice and neatly.

[Duke Togo]

That's funny, I didn't take the image of Minmay to mean anything about the Megaroad.

Bilrer thought he'd get to see her. I don't know what else that could have meant? Clearly neither Minmay nor the Megaroad were there, but, I am not sure "going there" was something Kawamori should have done. I "get" the Bilrer character, I just think Kawamori ended up cracking open a big can of worms with that scene.

[bsu legato]

I think the mistake he made was having Bilrer obsessing over Minmay at the end of this series. Kawamori cracked the door back open again, even if it wasn't his intention to do so. He's going to get more questions on it now than he ever has.

Technically, the picture in Bilrer's locket shows Minmay as she appeared in DYRL, the in-universe movie. Therefore he must be obsessed with the actress who portrayed Minmay in that production. It's all detailed in my forthcoming Bilrer fanfiction, a loose adaptation of Somewhere in Time.

[ShadowValkyrie]

Bilrer thought he'd get to see her. I don't know what else that could have meant? Clearly neither Minmay nor the Megaroad were there, but, I am not sure "going there" was something Kawamori should have done. I "get" the Bilrer character, I just think Kawamori ended up cracking open a big can of worms with that scene.

Well it's not like he didn't know that he was opening the can. I can't really believe he was just "trolling" the fanbase. He either did it cause it was a nice little nod back-- as a lot of the rest of the series has been-- back to the old days and the beginning of the franchise. Or he's got an idea in his head in his head, even in broad strokes, and he figured on laying some ground work. Whether there is a pay-off out of it or not, is ultimately just a matter of patience and SK's whim.

Edited September 28, 2008 by ShadowValkyrie

[Shaka_Z]

yes... something about the pic of minmay in bilrer's ring tells me that we may at some point see a macross series set around finding out the fate of the megaroad. such a tale would not have to deal with the original characters much at all beyond brief flashbacks or log entries. perhaps we will find the megaroad colony, or perhaps the roles will be reversed, with the megaroad colony coming back to find us, as some point in the future when all the original characters can be presumed to have passed into legend.

heh think about it... a character from the megaroad colony recalling his first history lessons about hikaru, misa and minmay from when he was in 3rd grade...

[Sergorn]

Given that the Vajra are attracted to humans by song, it's entirely possible that the Vajra were initially attracted to the Milky Way galaxy by the Protoculture's song.

But they're not attracted by song are they ? The reason they're affected by Ranka's singing (and later Sheryl's) is because they both emit faint fold waves when singing due to the fact that they are infected by Vajra bacterias. There's no indication that the Vajra would be attracted to "normal" singing.

-Sergorn

[Gubaba]

Makes you wonder why Alto switched to plural later on right?? Seems to tie down to why Ranka tells her I won't love to you in song or in love.

Although the triangle love is open to various interpretations, I think the script writers leave enough room for us to know that it was her and not Ranka. C'mon, marketing strategy...this is capitalism!

Also, Sheryl seems to know Alto more when he said that idiot flew to the sky.

Very clever...resolving the love triangle for those smart enough (like Sheryl fans) to get it, but subtle enough so that stupid people (like Ranka fans) will miss it.

C'mon, man...it's unresolved. It's meant to be unresolved, and no matter how many little clues you think you find, it will always be unresolved.

Until the movie. Maybe.

[Sumdumgai]

yes... something about the pic of minmay in bilrer's ring tells me that we may at some point see a macross series set around finding out the fate of the megaroad. such a tale would not have to deal with the original characters much at all beyond brief flashbacks or log entries. perhaps we will find the megaroad colony, or perhaps the roles will be reversed, with the megaroad colony coming back to find us, as some point in the future when all the original characters can be presumed to have passed into legend.

heh think about it... a character from the megaroad colony recalling his first history lessons about hikaru, misa and minmay from when he was in 3rd grade...

Miku Ichijo and the Megaroad 1 descendants could be found or come back. Hikaru, Misa, and Minmay could be retired now (or have passed on). They would have aged enough that the original seiyuu wouldn't have to be used (especially in Hikaru's case since his seiyuu is gone).

Wouldn't that be a twist, the Megaroad 1 descendants come back as villains...

[Shaka_Z]

Miku Ichijo and the Megaroad 1 descendants could be found or come back. Hikaru, Misa, and Minmay could be retired now (or have passed on). They would have aged enough that the original seiyuu wouldn't have to be used (especially in Hikaru's case since his seiyuu is gone).

Wouldn't that be a twist, the Megaroad 1 descendants come back as villains...

my thoughts exactly... think of the shock the NUNS would have upon encountering a hostile force that uses SDF class vessels that use attacker mode ^^. although I dont really see how megaroad-1 descendants could be made into a hostile force at present.

[Radd]

I still really think people are taking Bilrer's comment far too literally. There is nothing that leads me to believe that he actually thought he was going to meet Minmay, and I don't believe the scene suggested anything of the sort, either. I stand by my earlier comments regarding that scene.

[Final Vegeta]

Very clever...resolving the love triangle for those smart enough (like Sheryl fans) to get it, but subtle enough so that stupid people (like Ranka fans) will miss it.

All this while in ep. 23 even Sheryl fans were convinced of a Ranka end

It's for things like that I liked when Ranka slapped Sheryl more than I should have

C'mon, man...it's unresolved. It's meant to be unresolved, and no matter how many little clues you think you find, it will always be unresolved.

Until the movie. Maybe.

Honestly, we know the movie will be the same thing all over again

I like it better this way. If one of the girls were to be chosen instead of the other, it would diminish the status of the other one to a boy stealer. My head and belly are one in accepting Kawamori's justice and Macross

FV

[Shun]

Honestly, we know the movie will be the same thing all over again

I like it better this way. If one of the girls were to be chosen instead of the other, it would diminish the status of the other one to a boy stealer. My head and belly are one in accepting Kawamori's justice and Macross

FV

the only way to solve this without Sheryl x Ranka fan wars is for the movie to skip several years and start with Alto being married or in a relationship with some other person - a completely new character.

BTW Ranka was kissing Sheryl's boobs at the end of the ep 25, so there u go, its a Ranka x Sheryl ending.

Edited September 28, 2008 by Shun

[Shun]

Long-time fan, first-time poster who's just curious to see what other fans made of it, and eager to share.

...

What I perhaps love most about the Macross series is that so much of the story revolves around singing and music. As a native speaker, I'm constantly worried that my non-Japanese speaking friends won't get the full experience, so I am always pleased to find how needless my worries are, and that singing and music are indeed universal.

The only contribution I have to this thread is... that when you hear the トライアングラー (Triangler) song during the end credits, it's amusing to note that the lyrics are different from the original song.

Per http://www.kasi-time.com/item-32075.html , the original song goes:

君は誰とキスをする / Who are you going to kiss?

わたし それともあの娘 / Me, or perhaps that girl?

In the final episode, it changes to:

君は誰とキスをする / Who are you going to kiss?

わたし それともわたし / Me, or perhaps me? (with italicized vocals interchanging)

Sorry if that was already mentioned in this thread -- I did a quick search and it didn't come up.

I'm looking forward to the movie!!

thanks for pointing the differences in the lyrics!!

and i totally agree with you - Music is indeed the universal language!!

and Frontier music is absolutely fantastic! Kudos to the Goddess of Music Yoko Kanno!! m(_ _)m