Macross Frontier Episode 24 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[d3v]

Meh, Kawamori and co. have trolled us so much in this series that if Alto came back on angel's wings surrounded by singing angels I wouldn't be surprised.

[the_foul_fowl]

You know how kawamori once said the latter parts of MF would be like any other macross series before it... what if he went eva on us, and the last ep is really like the teaser at the end of ep 24, just 20 mins of page flipping old macross art books, talking about song, love and war, MF character sketch art etc...

wouldn't that be a total mind-frak?

[Morpheus]

Hmm, plenty of End Of Evangelion references here, Luca almost pulling Shinji, giant (not naked) Ranka, mass produced EX series VF-171EX (same white color).

[Duke Togo]

The vajra queen looks very similar to the APHOS.

Actually, no. Unless by similar you mean "big and alien", in which case you would be correct. This would go for Klan as well, of course. And Dickey B.

I really think some people need to go back and watch Zero again. We've seen NOTHING in Frontier so far that is anything like we see at the end of the series.

[zathras]

'

I can now imagine the big whopping collective "WTF??!!!" and "OMFG!!!" from all of MW if it did turn out to be Minmay.

well it could be worse...it could be Basara Nekki...does the Space Whales create fold waves when they sing...at this point, what would happen if being the queen requires a human body...while Grace can clone her human body&download her consciousness, is she even a real person or just a digital backup of her consciousness...it would be a total let down for her if she tried to join with the Vajra queen only to encounter that she's not compatible with it since she's a toaster...

Edited September 22, 2008 by zathras

[Morpheus]

well it could be worse...it could be Basara Nekki...does the Space Whales create fold waves when they sing...at this point, what would happen if being the queen requires a human body...while Grace can clone her human body&download her consciousness, is she even a real person or just a digital backup of her consciousness...it would be a total let down for her if she tried to join with the Vajra queen only to encounter that she's not compatible with it since she's a toaster...

No, its Exedol Formo in full size, and he sing "My Boyfriend is a pilot" and dancing Ranka style, all head (incuding Vajra) will explode due to sheer amusement.

[shinkirou]

i can see it now... Sheryl and Ranka will be singing Lion on Battle 25! XD

hehe just my prediction

and after watching the subbed gg version of episode 24,

the Triangle has already ended in this episode even without the full dialogue. it was already a confession but didn't got an answer right away.

peace out! XD

[taksraven]

Hmm, plenty of End Of Evangelion references here, Luca almost pulling Shinji, giant (not naked) Ranka, mass produced EX series VF-171EX (same white color).

Other Evangelion themes that this series has picked up include dysfunctional relationships between fathers and sons and children having to pay for the sins of their parents. Great stuff.

Taksraven

[dreamweaver13]

Other Evangelion themes that this series has picked up include dysfunctional relationships between fathers and sons and children having to pay for the sins of their parents. Great stuff.

Taksraven

hehe. if alto's VF25 comes out of Ranka's giant red eye, then we know for sure that SK's dead, and it's been Anno pulling the strings all along.

[dreamweaver13]

and after watching the subbed gg version of episode 24,

the Triangle has already ended in this episode even without the full dialogue. it was already a confession but didn't got an answer right away.

i'm wondering just how sheryl must be bummed right now. now that (she thinks) alto is dead, how she wishes she should have just let him finish what he was about to say.

[dreamweaver13]

hmm i think u're abit confused.

imagine you r living in the macross universe in 205x, what you know about SW1 is via DYRL the very famous movie that gets lots of remakes... obviously for theatrical purposes many events would've been tweaked and not exactly factual. Even though there might be lots of historical facts that deny certain events, the commoner will only know about the DYRL movie, and not know which parts are factual and which parts are exaggerated for the viewer impact. Many people will not be bothered with facts.

A real life example will be the historical Record of Three Kingdoms vs the novelized and very exaggerated Romance of Three Kingdom. Many people "know for a fact" that Guan Yu killed 6 generals to get back to his master, and also the story where Zhuge Liang "borrowed" arrows from enemies by tricking them into shooting at boats full of straw, when these stories are proven to be totally false!

So imagine in the Macross universe, the common person will think that DYRL song was really the song sung by Minmay at the end of SW1, that the "new" designs of the Zents were already in use back in SW1 days. Whether it is indeed factual is another thing altogether.

Even if the series now confirms that DYRL was really a PC song, it doesn't automatically guarantees that it was sung back in SW1 by Minmay. The DYRL song and any other additional info regarding the PC could be the result of investigations into the PCs and the origin of mankind and Zents after the latters' alliance.

EXACTLY!

fiction based on real life stories does have the tendency to supplant what actually happened, in the minds of the general public.

[openget]

You know how kawamori once said the latter parts of MF would be like any other macross series before it... what if he went eva on us, and the last ep is really like the teaser at the end of ep 24, just 20 mins of page flipping old macross art books, talking about song, love and war, MF character sketch art etc...

wouldn't that be a total mind-frak?

lmao, that would be kind of hilarious

[wolfx]

You know how kawamori once said the latter parts of MF would be like any other macross series before it... what if he went eva on us, and the last ep is really like the teaser at the end of ep 24, just 20 mins of page flipping old macross art books, talking about song, love and war, MF character sketch art etc...

wouldn't that be a total mind-frak?

Hehehe....it may be interesting that Ep 25 will turn EVA on us and all we see are design sketches and scrapbook flipping while hearing Alto x Ranka x Sheryl narration.

Finally ends with "Omedetou, Alto-kun".

[Morpheus]

Hehehe....it may be interesting that Ep 25 will turn EVA on us and all we see are design sketches and scrapbook flipping while hearing Alto x Ranka x Sheryl narration.

Finally ends with "Omedetou, Alto-kun".

Fan will rage and SK will be forced to make a compilation movie: The End of Macross........

[Salamander]

Fan will rage and SK will be forced to make a compilation movie: The End of Macross........

Which obviously will mean the next series will be called "Macross Returns"

[Morpheus]

Which obviously will mean the next series will be called "Macross Retcons"

Fixed

[Chronocidal]

Or would that be Macross F: Death and More Death?

[wolfx]

Fan will rage and SK will be forced to make a compilation movie: The End of Macross........

Or would that be Macross F: Death and More Death?

Well then this is good news to fans as we get more stuff during aniversaries like "Rebuild of Macross" and "Macross 1.0 : You (Don't) Remember Love?" movies.

[RichterX]

and Admiral Hunter and the SDF-3 will fold in to be teared apart by the Vajra...

[Keith]

Ok, two plausable theories somewhat based on the next ep description bablefished from the official page.

1:Bilner is assumedly Zentradi by all appearances, hasn't been developed even remotely as a character, has no apparent ties to any other character shown in the series, so just who the hell would he be waiting to see? Minmay of course. If he were in some way related to Ranshe/Mao, you'd think he would have reacted somewhat to Ranka's appearance in the fleet. But absolutely nothing. Most plausable answer would be the Zentradi messiah, aka Minmay. That would also fill the role of the siilhouette that appears on stage on Frontier.

2:Bilner is actually a slightly crazed very old Shin Kudo in Zentradi disguise. Why? Who knows, maybe to elongate his life, but the person he'd be waiting to see in this case would be Sara. Maybe he wasn't brought with her afterall, maybe Sara just folded him someplace safe/slightly into the future after SW1, who knows. In that case it could easily be Sara that he wants to bring, her Protoculture heritage possibly being able to override Ranka's control over the Vajra through song....

In both scenario's, having an intergalactic fold network to search the entirety of the galaxy would be benefitial in finding either girl. Regardless, I'm getting a strong feeling that the outcome of the series is stongly tied in with who/whatever Bilner is.

Edited September 22, 2008 by Keith

[Sergorn]

and Admiral Hunter and the SDF-3 will fold in to be teared apart by the Vajra...

Of course we all know the Vajra are actually servants of the Children of the Shadows.

-Sergorn

[d3v]

Sheryl:"What was it about that boy."

Sheryl:"Back then I'd tease him everyday, convinced I could make him stay with me forever."

Sheryl:"Tatta ikkyoku no ROCK `N ROLL

Ashita e Hibi-iteku

Asayake no Kanata e

Omae o saegirumono wa, Nanimo Nai..."

Sheryl:*SCREAMS* "I'm gonna make him come back today."

Sheryl:"Vajra! Galaxy! Atashi no uta wo kike!"

*Sheryl sings Try Again*

Klan:"Sheryl"

Luca:"And still, Sheryl sings..."

*Battle Frontier get's hit*

Sheryl:"The beat..."

Sheryl:"Alto."

Alto:"Sheryl"

Sheryl: *smiles* "Fly Away! Fly Away..."

*both fly off into the Vajra hive*

Ranka: "Alto-kun, why?"

Alto:"I will eliminate you, Ranka!"

Ranka:"It's useless Alto-kun. My dream has already fallen into dust! You cannot stop Grace."

*Alto continues blasting at Ranka, to no avail*

Ranka:"Have you at last accepted your hopelessness Alto-kun?"

*Alto realizes the folly of his ways, stops blasting and begins to perform

Sakura hime

*

Edited September 22, 2008 by d3v

[DeeBot]

You know, that line about Ranshe and Mao's blood fighting... doesn't it seem like Grace/Galaxy really has it out for the Zentradi? I can't help but feel there's some sort of reason for it.

1. Bilrer's suspicious of her.
2. The Kaitos looks more like a Zentradi design than the Dulfim, and is apparently sacrificed (if the attack on the Galaxy fleet was as exaggerated as it seems).
3. The whole 33rd incident goes without saying.
4. No (macronized?) Zentradi allowed in the entire Galaxy fleet.
5. The Zentradi recreational island was sacrificed/had the DE on it.
6. Frontier has a liberal policy towards Zentradi, and becomes targeted by Galaxy.

Considering the short shrift they keep getting, I can't help but think it's intentional. Maybe it's just plain racism? Galaxy's full of human supremacists? (Would explain Grace's world view.) Or is there something about the Zentradi that makes them a threat/incompatible with their grand plan?

Another thing: The Dulfim was put into quarantine as soon as it arrived at the Frontier fleet. Perhaps it was never released... would explain why nobody ever saw what went on there, except perhaps for Leon's men... who were in on the conspiracy.

(By the way, I like the idea that Bilrer really wants to meet Minmay. I don't think it's a good idea for the show to go there, but it'd be fun if Bilrer was doing all this because he's a typical Zentradi fanboy.)

Edited September 22, 2008 by DeeBot

[TehPW]

and Admiral Hunter and the SDF-3 will fold in to be teared apart by the Vajra...

/me pulls into port to flog RichterX with chains and wet noodles.... Heritic! You shall BURN! BURN at the steak! (You want your steak to be Well done or Very well done, sir? )

(Off topic) Who do i ask to get my name tag edited? from pensives_wetness to Pensive's Wetness?

(On Topic) for the finale, d3v, your suggestion is probably what will occur (it would be so fitting since it's Alto's higher calling, after all...). Now the worry part is execution. how they gonna pull it all off?

Edited September 22, 2008 by pensives_wetness

[timmystyle]

Bilner is assumedly Zentradi by all appearances, hasn't been developed even remotely as a character, has no apparent ties to any other character shown in the series, so just who the hell would he be waiting to see? Minmay of course. If he were in some way related to Ranshe/Mao, you'd think he would have reacted somewhat to Ranka's appearance in the fleet. But absolutely nothing. Most plausable answer would be the Zentradi messiah, aka Minmay. That would also fill the role of the siilhouette that appears on stage on Frontier.

The final minutes of Ep 24 have certainly set this up, and it would be pretty awesome. But this series has kept me guessing the whole way along, so for me, all bets are off.

[wolfx]

Sheryl:"What was it about that boy."

Sheryl:"Back then I'd tease him everyday, convinced I could make him stay with me forever."

Sheryl:"Tatta ikkyoku no ROCK `N ROLL

Ashita e Hibi-iteku

Asayake no Kanata e

Omae o saegirumono wa, Nanimo Nai..."

Sheryl:*SCREAMS* "I'm gonna make him come back today."

Sheryl:"Vajra! Galaxy! Atashi no uta wo kike!"

*Sheryl sings Try Again*

Klan:"Sheryl"

Luca:"And still, Sheryl sings..."

*Battle Frontier get's hit*

Sheryl:"The beat..."

Sheryl:"Alto."

Alto:"Sheryl"

Sheryl: *smiles* "Fly Away! Fly Away..."

*both fly off into the Vajra hive*

Ranka: "Alto-kun, why?"

Alto:"I will eliminate you, Ranka!"

Ranka:"It's useless Alto-kun. My dream has already fallen into dust! You cannot stop Grace."

*Alto continues blasting at Ranka, to no avail*

Ranka:"Have you at last accepted your hopelessness Alto-kun?"

*Alto realizes the folly of his ways, stops blasting and begins to perform

Sakura hime

*

I'll continue that.

*Ranka hugs herself in virtual space*

Ranka: "Oh Alto....Sheryl....."

*Ranka takes a deep breath...then screams*

Ranka: "Minna! Dakishimete!! Ginga Wo... HATE MADE!!!"

Ranka: "mimi wo sumaseba kasuka ni kikoeru daro

hora ano koe......

kotoba nanka ja tsutaerarenai nanika

itsumo kanjiru are wa tenshi no koe"

*small explosions appear around the hull of Battle Frontier and Island 1 as it plunges into flames towards the Vajra spiral structure*

Alto: "This voice....."

Sheryl: "It can't be...."

*Sheryl grabs the mic*

Sheryl: "MERODI- wa kieru yami ni shimikomu you ni

EKO- nokoshite

shizuka ni orite'ku DI-PU BURU- no O-RORA ni

ore mo utau ze"

*Alto stops his Sakura Hime dance, getting culture shocked as the Battle Frontier goes down in the background*

Ranka: "shinjite-ita mono ga aru

BAKA da to iwareta keredo......."

*Sheryl sheds a "shiny tears" and joins in*

Ranka & Sheryl: "..............kawaranakatta ano hi no YUME!!!"

*Planatery Defence Beams fire at the dropping Frontier fleet*

Ranka & Sheryl: "ANGEL VOICE mitsuketa no sa

chiheisen no mukou ni KIRARI hikatta

omae no sugata wa yume ja nakatta"

*Flames appear around Sheryl, but she continues to sing with Ranka*

"nagarete nagarete ikou

itsuka mata aou ze

hitomi tojireba

itsumo kokoro no naka ni ANGEL VOICE!!"

Alto: "Sheryl!!!"

*Flies towards battle frontier's bridge , transforms into Battroid mode and protects the bridge from stray lasers with his PPB-ed back*

*Sheryl continues to sing whilst being enveloped by flames*

Sheryl: "WOAAAHHHH WOAHHHH WOAHHHH!!!

WOAHHH WOAHHH WOAHHH!!

WOAHHH WOAHHH WOAHHH W-.......*cough cough*

*Sheryl stops halfway because she coughs blood*

Alto: "Sheryllll!!!"

Ranka: "Alto....Sheryl....gomen ne....this is for the sake of peace....."

Ranka: "WOAAAHHHH WOAHHHH WOAHHHH!!!

WOAHHH WOAHHH WOAHHH!!

WOAHHH WOAHHH WOAHHH WOAHH WOAHHHHH!!!"

*Ranka cries as she sees the Frontier and Battle 25 being dealt a death blow and explodes in the Vajra's homeplanet's orbit*

Alto: "SHERYLLLLL!!! RANKAAAA!!!"

*Alto screams their names as he disintegrates while reentering the planet's atmosphere*

Ranka: "ALTOOOOOOO!!!!"

*Diamond Crevasse plays in the background. The camera zooms away from the Vajra homeplanet showing the wrecked Frontier fleet orbitting around like space debris while showing the credits. The planet looks dark but becomes brighter as more lights on it begin to show. 2 minutes into the song, the song pauses, the planet brightens up in a crescendo and the lights reveal a message...... *

"WELCOME BACK, RANKA!!"

BGM: "moeru you na ryuusei tsukamaete hi wo tomoshite......"

*Chorus and fade out as credits continue to roll*.

[ShadowValkyrie]

and Admiral Hunter and the SDF-3 will fold in to be teared apart by the Vajra...

Just had a bad mental image of Ranka or Sheryl breaking out in a rendition of "We Will Win" complete with Reba West's voice

[manwiththemachinegun]

Wait, so if the Vajra have no connection to the Birdman or protoculture, then what the hell is this?

I was ready to discount any possible connection, but this is pretty freaking important.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpXr917JAfk

If you will pause the video at 4:50, you can see that the basic body shape is almost exactly the same. And if you look at the center, rather than what we perceive to be the 'head' (Where Sara is being held), you can see it is vaguely insect-like not to mention the four angel wings.

And then there's that question about where Mao's fold quartz *came from*. The Mayan people are cut off from the outside world, but what do they have that no one else does? Fold Quartz... and the APHOS. That just doesn't fall from the sky does it? Not to mention, WHY Mao was interested in the Vajra to begin with?

I think it's pretty clear there is a BIG connection between Macross Zero and Frontier.

The simplest explanation is that the Vajra or the (divine sword), are what the Protoculture used for judging their creations. The Zentradi are military grunts, sure you can have them kill a planet, but what if you judging one? That takes time, you can't just park a military fleet for a few million years while your creatures are developing. So what do you do? Engineer a lifeform that has no real intelligence on its own, but rather is programmed with simple, basic instincts, and have it be one that can survive and adapt for long periods of time. The Vajra are sleepers, the Zentradi are a tightened fist. You only need one Vajra queen to judge a whole world, and if the creation becomes too powerful, you have the queen's offspring adapt and mutant to count those threats.

Edited September 22, 2008 by manwiththemachinegun

[Final Vegeta]

Wait, so if the Vajra have no connection to the Birdman or protoculture, then what the hell is this?

Adam. No, Lilith. Wait, I am confused

FV

[manwiththemachinegun]

Adam. No, Lilith. Wait, I am confused

FV

So Adam just happens to have four wings and a "W" shaped body with an elongated orb for its lower section just like the Bird-Human?

I'm open to alternate interpretations, but damn, that Vajra super queen looks a hell of a lot like the APHOS.

Edited September 22, 2008 by manwiththemachinegun

[aerocombatpilot]

Wait, so if the Vajra have no connection to the Birdman or protoculture, then what the hell is this?

That looks like the painting of Ranka that Nasase made! Dang, she knows the truth and she's in a coma!!!!

[ShadowValkyrie]

Wait, so if the Vajra have no connection to the Birdman or protoculture, then what the hell is this?

See, I'm just not 100% convinced that there isn't some sort of connection. Given that Protoculture fooled around with humanity's evolution, maybe the Vajra are a product-- gone wrong-- of another attempt by the PC to direct/control evolution.

[Keith]

I don't see how the Vajra couldn't be a Protoculture byproduct. They use the same technology, so that shouldn't even be an issue.

[manwiththemachinegun]

Well, I think there's one too, and the biggest sign of that was Sheryl's fold wave/fold quartz EARINGS being edited into Macross Zero Blu Ray. So we get a retcon and its not supposed to mean anything? Uh huh, suuuure. That APHOS was covered in purple like crystal which we now know is fold quartz. I think that says something don't you?

[Keith]

It says the Protoculture created the Vajra to mine it, defend it from Protodevelin/other half of civil war, and that they're another unattended project?