Macross Frontier Episode 24 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[RedWolf]

Ranka's brother & his VF-27 need to get blown the hell up!! Don't care if he is under mind control or not, He needs to go down. Ozma or Alto, either one....waste this SOB!!!

His seiyuu is also Kira Yamato so if you blew up his ride he's just gonna bring a badder mech. Battle Galaxy with more beam spam. Oh Oh

Edited September 20, 2008 by RedWolf

[505thAirborne]

In that case, maybe Macross 25 should borrow the BLACK-HOLE Bomb from Gunbuster, that should do the trick!!

But seriously, how many more episodes are left in this series, So far its not looking too good for Alto and the others. Starting too look like the a real downer of an ending here.

[DeeBot]

Wow... just wow.

After having a day too busy to watch, I was going over a HQ raw, to see if I could spot anything new in the higher res. And I was just floored by what I figured out. I'm going to put it up in spoiler tags, just in case you don't want to read it, but it has to do with Alto's fate.

OK, so I know everyone pretty much assumes Alto didn't die. In fact, many have gone on to speculate that he bailed out while hiding behind the wreck of that Guantanamo.

The thing I wanted to add is: I think I found concrete evidence of it, and even details of what scenario they used.

Right after Luca kisses Nanase (something that weirded me out, so I didn't pay much attention to what came after), we're treated to brief glimpse of the nose of a VF-171 (probably EX), and in the background, what appear to be several of Luca's drones. Or at least some kind of drone; they don't resemble the VF-171 at all.

Moreover, the nose of this VF-171 doesn't resemble Luca's, which I initially assumed it to be (after all, it came right after Luca kissed Nanase, right?).

Finally, when we see the VF-171EX charge Brera right before getting shot down, it matches exactly. I can even see the NUNS logo in the same spot. (Standard model, of course, but it establishes that they could be the same plane.)

The obvious implication here: This was a VF-171EX modified as a Ghost drone, and this very brief scene was meant to establish that, before the reveal in the next episode.

It's not absolutely conclusive, and it still seems to defy belief that Alto could just call up this little trick pony out of nowhere, at exactly the moment he needed it (but maybe this was the plan all along for dealing with Brera, so as soon as he showed up, call in the Ghost which was on standby).

Some additional evidence is how Alto's VF-171EX is visibly trailing a huge smoke trail before disappearing behind the Guantanamo. Yet in the trajectory it's describing, there's clearly enough screen time to shoot out the other side. Alto must have maneuvered while behind the wreck.

Also, when we get the mystery VF-171EX charging Brera, it shows pretty much no battle damage at all. No smoke trails, no dings or holes, nothing. Granted, it's moving too fast to make out these details, but it's really suspicious.

I thought at first that it maybe one of Alto's wingmen sacrificed himself, but I remembered the mysterious scene after the Luca kiss, and it just fell into place. This was all pre-arranged, and that was a Ghost VF-171EX.

The thing that really surprises me is that they'd give it away like that.

Edited September 20, 2008 by DeeBot

[tankf77]

Wow... just wow.

After having a day too busy to watch, I was going over a HQ raw, to see if I could spot anything new in the higher res. And I was just floored by what I figured out. I'm going to put it up in spoiler tags, just in case you don't want to read it, but it has to do with Alto's fate.

OK, so I know everyone pretty much assumes Alto didn't die. In fact, many have gone on to speculate that he bailed out while hiding behind the wreck of that Guantanamo.

The thing I wanted to add is: I think I found concrete evidence of it, and even details of what scenario they used.

Right after Luca kisses Nanase (something that weirded me out, so I didn't pay much attention to what came after), we're treated to brief glimpse of the nose of a VF-171 (probably EX), and in the background, what appear to be several of Luca's drones. Or at least some kind of drone; they don't resemble the VF-171 at all.

Moreover, the nose of this VF-171 doesn't resemble Luca's, which I initially assumed it to be (after all, it came right after Luca kissed Nanase, right?).

Finally, when we see the VF-171EX charge Brera right before getting shot down, it matches exactly. I can even see the NUNS logo in the same spot. (Standard model, of course, but it establishes that they could be the same plane.)

The obvious implication here: This was a VF-171EX modified as a Ghost drone, and this very brief scene was meant to establish that, before the reveal in the next episode.

It's not absolutely conclusive, and it still seems to defy belief that Alto could just call up this little trick pony out of nowhere, at exactly the moment he needed it (but maybe this was the plan all along for dealing with Brera, so as soon as he showed up, call in the Ghost which was on standby).

Some additional evidence is how Alto's VF-171EX is visibly trailing a huge smoke trail before disappearing behind the Guantanamo. Yet in the trajectory it's describing, there's clearly enough screen time to shoot out the other side. Alto must have maneuvered while behind the wreck.

Also, when we get the mystery VF-171EX charging Brera, it shows pretty much no battle damage at all. No smoke trails, no dings or holes, nothing. Granted, it's moving too fast to make out these details, but it's really suspicious.

I thought at first that it maybe one of Alto's wingmen sacrificed himself, but I remembered the mysterious scene after the Luca kiss, and it just fell into place. This was all pre-arranged, and that was a Ghost VF-171EX.

The thing that really surprises me is that they'd give it away like that.

wow........nice theory!

[Shun]

Wow... just wow.

After having a day too busy to watch, I was going over a HQ raw, to see if I could spot anything new in the higher res. And I was just floored by what I figured out. I'm going to put it up in spoiler tags, just in case you don't want to read it, but it has to do with Alto's fate.

The thing that really surprises me is that they'd give it away like that.

errm... Alto's in Sagittarius One, judging from the reactions of Sheryl, KK and Luca, it couldn't be just a drone or decoy. Why would Sheryl scream and cry over a drone? Luca would though

And if you're gonna say they made a mistake, the battle updates were directly from the Command Centre... i expect the info to be accurate.

I'm quite confused about what u said about the nose, could u post some screen shots and show which parts you are talking about?

Edited September 20, 2008 by Shun

[The_WOZ]

It was Alto's plane, it had all the red highlights in the right places.

[DeeBot]

It was Alto's plane, it had all the red highlights in the right places.

Meh, I think you're right. Guess it's back to the drawing board.

The battle updates, though... my original theory was that Alto had planned this without telling anyone else. Or maybe very few people. But the coloring issue throws too much doubt on the whole thing, although I suppose it's still possible that a paint job was done at the last minute. But that's sorta reaching.

Darn.

EDIT: I've inspected the footage more closely, and it's quite plausible, even probable that, after all, the hangar scene was just of Luca's recon VF-171 and drones. Combined with the color differences, there's no basis for my theory left. With the speed and colored lighting, I must have completely overlooked it.

I took some screenshots, though, so I figured I'd might as well still post them.

Luca's birds (probably):

http://i33.tinypic.com/1zxr6vq.jpg

Hero green:

http://i37.tinypic.com/25tvygn.jpg

Hero red:

http://i38.tinypic.com/2w1yst0.jpg

This starts smoking:

http://i37.tinypic.com/2e22vbl.jpg

Going down!

http://i35.tinypic.com/jpa62r.jpg

One long smoke trail...

http://i34.tinypic.com/28tuc09.jpg

So where did he go?

http://i36.tinypic.com/314rmmq.jpg

Charging back (in hero red):

http://i37.tinypic.com/2mdgbxk.jpg

Wait for it...

http://i35.tinypic.com/2v0myhf.jpg

Ouch!

http://i38.tinypic.com/2hhgia8.jpg

Edited September 20, 2008 by DeeBot

[Morpheus]

It was Alto's plane, it had all the red highlights in the right places.

Yup, but my spider-sense told me it was remotely controlled by Alto EX-gear after he ejected at the Guantanamo wreckage. Alto should have known that he's puny VF-171EX is no match for Brera VF-27 Freedom. I bet Alto gonna fly to the Vajra center or Dulfim to save Ranka (or to kill her). I think Alto managed to see where Ranka is being held captive (when he saw bridge of Dulfim or Battle Galaxy).

BTW, since most NUNS ammo is equipped with MDE now, maybe Canaria VB-6 now is also equipped with MDE, yeah Konig Monster unleashing a fury barrage that rip space and time

[DeeBot]

gg sub is out.

[vanpang]

gg sub is out.

Thanks

[panpo98]

The transformation of battle 25 begins at 15:25 (same raw) just before Sheryls starts to Sing

I wonder if Battle Frontier manage to finish its transformation before epi.25 ending credits start rolling

Actually, u can see the Battle Frontier start to transform at about 15:26 after the valks and Q-Rea took off. Guess Leon was having a fun time pressing that transform button

You are right. So any better view of the transformation seem unlikely unless they go back in time a little in the next episode for a recap in the beginning or just forget that they started to transform the ship in the background in this episode.

Edited September 20, 2008 by panpo98

[Final Vegeta]

I'll admit defeat once it's proven I'm wrong. I believe the EX is the same as in EXtender Gear, because the machine has been upgraded and made compatible with said gear.

Look behind Ozma's shoulder

FV

[tyasawa]

I agree with Morpheus

...Alto could really just switched vf or put his plan to motion when Klan bought him some time.

There were no smoke trails from Alto's ship when he came back, no face shots either. Plus, when he maneuvred behind the wreckage it looks as if he stopped there, between http://i34.tinypic.com/28tuc09.jpg and http://i36.tinypic.com/314rmmq.jpg there's more than enough time to show his vf coming back, but its just not there

The only things pointing that it was Alto was the red highlights and his voice calling out to Klan before he... gets owned XD

Explains the command centre update. Just another theory

[Shaka_Z]

like i said way back somewhere in the single digit pages... hime is EVA in his ex-gear right now. either he is gonna make like a small piece of debris (mac+ Isamu style) to sneak his way past the vajra lines, or somehow is gonna be in just the right spot to be picked up by the quarter when it arrives so he can hop into his true ride and go pwn certain ppl.

thats my theory and I'm sticking to it

[lososaurus]

I liked the episode,

It's confirmed that Sheryl is Mao's granddaughter( I don't know if it already was, the name was a big flag ), I wonder who Sheryl's mother was and how Sheryl got onto the streets. I'd like to see more of Sheryl's past.

. Feel bad for Sheryl being outmatched by Ranka in the Vajra-control department, Ranka just needs to.....go away and Sheryl be happy.

like i said way back somewhere in the single digit pages... hime is EVA in his ex-gear right now. either he is gonna make like a small piece of debris (mac+ Isamu style) to sneak his way past the vajra lines, or somehow is gonna be in just the right spot to be picked up by the quarter when it arrives so he can hop into his true ride and go pwn certain ppl.

thats my theory and I'm sticking to it

I like your theory, would make sense since he more or less knows he can't beat Brera head to head and made a plan just in case.

Anyone have some corruption with the GG sub? It happens when there's Japanese symbols overlayed on the rest of the action.

edit: Also, what's with future battle strategy?... Charge in with Island-1?! What are they thinking? How could they consider that a good idea? Also: Why don't the humans bring out the big guns right away? Suddenly all the Vajra decide to pull back and fire all at once and it's hits for massive damage?! Bah!.... *throws arms into the air*

Edited September 20, 2008 by lososaurus

[Sergorn]

Just saw it. Another great episode... great action, great fun.

I don't buy for a second that Alto is dead... it would make for a great twist but... nay...that won't happen. I also like how Brera refered to the human as the agressor... the more I think of it the more I'd expect some sort of inverted culture shock for the ending.

So it seems that Sheryl is indeed Mao grandaughter... When we saw her being taken in it by Grace from the streets I thought she had no relations, but I guess so...

That "creature" (the Vajra Queen ?) we see when the path open to Grace... doesn't it feels really reminiscent of the Bird Human of Macross Zero ? Also the eery posseded Ranka, singing to destroy the humans... that felt very reminiscent of Sarah in the final episode of Macross Zero. Also I like the irony of her using Do You Remember Love for that purpose.

Not to me picky though.... but didn't Alto said all the data from the GLobal had been erased ? Yet Ozma and all manage to save some stuff. Anyway the whole cybord consciouness plan of Grace is creepy.

Now I wonder what will happen for this last episode... we'll obviously see Battle 7 transformed, no doubt the Quarter will join the battle... but now will we sse the Galaxy ? Bring it on !

Oh and yeah there were some compression artefact on the GG version, I don't know why :/ Guess I'll have to rewatch the modified GG once it gets here.

-Sergorn

Edited September 20, 2008 by Sergorn

[Radd]

Heh. Looks like I pretty much called it. Looking forward to the final episode.

[vanpang]

I just rewatched with subs, that is one great episode ! I just hope Brera and Ranka recovers from Grace's control before Alto kill the both of them !

To those who voted negative in the poll, pray tell what is your reason for giving a negative vote in the poll?

[vanpang]

Not to me picky though.... but didn't Alto said all the data from the GLobal had been erased ? Yet Ozma and all manage to save some stuff. Anyway the whole cybord consciouness plan of Grace is creepy.

Alto probably did not have much time to do a through check, he was more concerned about rescuing Ranka.

[vanpang]

One thing puzzles me in the episode, why did Leon authorize the landing of Island 1 before securing the whole planet? Were Island 1’s life support systems failing so critically to warrant such an urgent action?

[Nexx Stalker]

Klan's chest has ALWAYS been that big. Just look at every pic of her in the flightsuit. They just happened to show some cleavage this time, which I thought was absolutely lovely.

Klan's chest is actually one of the most annoing things of the whole show. Beside being ugly and absolutely unnatural, it just characterizes her as "speaking giant mammaries" instead of a serious character (don't let me start on her micron from). Thumb down to Kawamori & c. for all this.

[mike_s_6]

Klan's chest is actually one of the most annoing things of the whole show. Beside being ugly and absolutely unnatural, it just characterizes her as "speaking giant mammaries" instead of a serious character (don't let me start on her micron from). Thumb down to Kawamori & c. for all this.

You know what, when I first saw the design to Klan, her boobs were in the way (almost literally) of me seeing how good a character she is. I was trying to avoid criticizing how much larger they seem to look in episode 24 XD Besides, doesn't Klan get back problems with that weight on her chest? Or does she relax sometimes by micronizing? XD

[RedWolf]

One thing puzzles me in the episode, why did Leon authorize the landing of Island 1 before securing the whole planet? Were Island 1’s life support systems failing so critically to warrant such an urgent action?

He's crazy megalomaniac that is too over confident.

He never guessed that he was playing into Grace's hand.

[MisaForever]

Klan's chest is actually one of the most annoing things of the whole show. Beside being ugly and absolutely unnatural, it just characterizes her as "speaking giant mammaries" instead of a serious character (don't let me start on her micron from). Thumb down to Kawamori & c. for all this.

I'm not even going to comment on this. If that annoyed you, you weren't enjoying the show as a whole.

[Sergorn]

I'm not even going to comment on this. If that annoyed you, you weren't enjoying the show as a whole.

Besides we tend to see chibi-micronized Klan far more thn giant-booby Klan...

-Sergorn

[kensei]

Great ep. Pity that the GG sub is a bit corrupted.

It'll do fine till another one comes up.

[Nexx Stalker]

I'm not even going to comment on this. If that annoyed you, you weren't enjoying the show as a whole.

Besides we tend to see chibi-micronized Klan far more thn giant-booby Klan...

It's her depiction as a sexual object that bothers me (both in giant and micropedonized form). I love the show, I hate the scriptwriters for slipping in such a trivious clichè . But it could have been worse: the fan service of the first episodes could have been carried over to the second half of the series, but thankfully that was not the case.

Edited September 20, 2008 by Nexx Stalker

[DeeBot]

edit: Also, what's with future battle strategy?... Charge in with Island-1?! What are they thinking? How could they consider that a good idea? Also: Why don't the humans bring out the big guns right away? Suddenly all the Vajra decide to pull back and fire all at once and it's hits for massive damage?! Bah!.... *throws arms into the air*

I get the feeling that Island-1's situation is really, really desperate. Hence the rush to get it planetside ASAP, while the military cuts a path.

As for the Vajra beam spam... there are a lot more Vajra than hoomies. At least, I'm assuming so.

[Sergorn]

It's her depiction as a sexual object that bothers me (both in giant and micropedonized form). I love the show, I hate the scriptwriters for slipping in such a trivious clichè . But it could have been worse: the fan service of the first episodes could have been carried over to the second half of the series, but thankfully that was not the case.

I just don't see how she's being depicted as a sexual object Yeah she has big boobs. Geez big deal

-Sergorn

[Cybergig1]

well not so much a sexual object but she's definitely a piece of fanservice more often then not when she is macronized form.

Think of say the @$$ shot when she comes up the lift after Michel died, the first time she was seen by Alto in the hangar, etc etc. Nothing I wouldn't expect from other animes though so yeah I dont think its over exploition compared to other shows.

anyways I'm still waiting on gg to download so I can watch the subs

[wolfx]

edit: Also, what's with future battle strategy?... Charge in with Island-1?! What are they thinking? How could they consider that a good idea? Also: Why don't the humans bring out the big guns right away? Suddenly all the Vajra decide to pull back and fire all at once and it's hits for massive damage?! Bah!.... *throws arms into the air*

Apart from desperation, the whole frontier fleet is in enemy territory. The reason they folded in WITH the civilian quarters as well was they cannot sustain their life support systems any much longer and almost all the energy is being used for that AND the final fold onto the promised land.

That said, they had to barge their way into the planet en masse and can't leave the Islands undefended as they will be easy pickings for random Vajra. I guess the plan is to move the whole fleet together and defeat the queen and the battle will be theirs....in Leon's theory anyway.

[grss1982]

Just saw GG's subs and it was awesome.

My thoughts:

* Ozma and his VF-171.

* Also about the apparent "death" of Alto, like some here I'm not buying it as well. Plus I'm also curious why Alto had to go around that destroyed carrier.

* BTW...Brera saying something about him and Ranka being the guardians of the Vajra, and calling the Humans/Zentraedis of Fontier as the agressors. Hmmm.....reverse culture FTW? I'm now more interested than ever on how SK is gonna resolve this one, since I feel Humans/Zentraedis of Fontier won't very forgiving towards the Vajra, since they see them more as bugs/insects than anything else.

* So baring anymore manipulations by Grace, is it safe to say that Ranka was the cause of the Vajra attack on Global or was that another of Grace's machinations.

* Finally Grace is really one scary mofo. I mean talk about going to hell and back. Incidentally was she already a cyborg back then? I get the feeling that she did'nt even feel the flames searing her entire body. LOL that scene reminded me of Terminator as well.

* Also I wonder, after all is said and done, if the Humans/Zentraedis of Fontier will ever be able to forgive Ranka for her being an apparent "turncoat," since a freaking huge hologram of her being projected from the Vajra planet is pretty hard to miss.

Not to me picky though.... but didn't Alto said all the data from the GLobal had been erased ? Yet Ozma and all manage to save some stuff. Anyway the whole cybord consciouness plan of Grace is creepy.

That's also been bothering me. I had thought that back in episode 13 or 12 that ALL data stored in Global's computers were erased. Grace must be slipping then?

Edited September 20, 2008 by grss1982

[electric indigo]

well not so much a sexual object but she's definitely a piece of fanservice more often then not when she is macronized form.

Think of say the @$$ shot when she comes up the lift after Michel died, the first time she was seen by Alto in the hangar, etc etc. Nothing I wouldn't expect from other animes though so yeah I dont think its over exploition compared to other shows.

At least Klan is not groping herself like Sheryl or Grace (yet).

Edited September 20, 2008 by electric indigo

[grss1982]

Apart from desperation, the whole frontier fleet is in enemy territory. The reason they folded in WITH the civilian quarters as well was they cannot sustain their life support systems any much longer and almost all the energy is being used for that AND the final fold onto the promised land.

That said, they had to barge their way into the planet en masse and can't leave the Islands undefended as they will be easy pickings for random Vajra. I guess the plan is to move the whole fleet together and defeat the queen and the battle will be theirs....in Leon's theory anyway.

You know its bothered me for sometime, but should'nt it be an very effective offensive tactic to use the discarded islands surrounding Island 1, as weapons. Colony drops, anyone? Yeah its unoriginal, but its a sound military tactic, right?

At least Klan is not groping herself like Sheryl or Grace (yet).

Maybe in the last episode?

[electric indigo]

Apart from desperation, the whole frontier fleet is in enemy territory. The reason they folded in WITH the civilian quarters as well was they cannot sustain their life support systems any much longer and almost all the energy is being used for that AND the final fold onto the promised land.

That said, they had to barge their way into the planet en masse and can't leave the Islands undefended as they will be easy pickings for random Vajra. I guess the plan is to move the whole fleet together and defeat the queen and the battle will be theirs....in Leon's theory anyway.

Since the queen's hive makes such a nice target, why don't they just fire Battle Frontier's big ass gun right into it?