Macross Frontier Episode 24 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[yaiba]

Also, what's with future battle strategy?... Charge in with Island-1?! What are they thinking? How could they consider that a good idea? Also: Why don't the humans bring out the big guns right away? Suddenly all the Vajra decide to pull back and fire all at once and it's hits for massive damage?! Bah!.... *throws arms into the air*

I get the feeling that Island-1's situation is really, really desperate. Hence the rush to get it planetside ASAP, while the military cuts a path.

As for the Vajra beam spam... there are a lot more Vajra than hoomies. At least, I'm assuming so.

I doubt that the situation is so desperate that they couldn't wait until the battle was over. What Leon did was about the same as landing a tourist bus in the middle of Omaha beach during Operation Overlord. At the very least he should have saved the abandoned islands to act as decoys.

[Mercurial Morpheus]

Hell... he's been playing with Macross Zero references for the whole series. Now the question is wether or not the ending will reveal some deeper connexion. I also thought the "Queen" looked a lot like the Bird Human...

-Sergorn

It sort of does. The head looks vaguely like a Valkyrie helmet too. I wouldn't be surprised if Sara was the true queen.

I also don't buy Alto being dead. Though it would be an interesting twist.

I'm also really not liking what they've done with Ranka. All that development to merely get warped by Grace. How original.

Good episode though. I loved how they twisted "Do You Remember Love?" Kawamori knows how to mess with his fanbase.

Edited September 21, 2008 by Mercurial Morpheus

[ron5864]

Wow! Alto went out like Isamu Dyson's plunge into the SDF-1.

There are still a lot of unknowns at this point. Where is the rest of the Macross Galaxy fleet? Are they all on this evil plan by Grace? How was Mr. Richard Biler connected to the Vajra? Why does the Queen Vajra look like the face plate and shoulder section of the Meltran Q-rau?

At this point, it seems there will probably be a more than just ending at Episode 25. If so, then there might be a movie version (or 2-hr episode) that explains some of this.

Or there is always season 2...

[lososaurus]

Nobody else is interested in the fact that Sheryl really Mao's granddaughter or what happened to Sheryl's mother?

[Macross_Fanboy]

Nobody else is interested in the fact that Sheryl really Mao's granddaughter or what happened to Sheryl's mother?

Well, I'm curious about that too...but...something tells me they're not gonna touch upon it and just leave it at that, we'll probably get an explanation outside of the series, kinda like what happened with the Megaroad or something like that. Part of me is hoping that Shin and Sarah somehow show up in this because all these Macross Zero references really pique my interest, I really liked Zero too, they just ruined the last episode. I gotta check up on the release dates for the second ost because all of these oldies they're remaking are great. I hope Alto dies, and I hope he doesn't die so he can kill Ranka, but of course, this Macross isn't really dark at all. I'm waiting to see what SMS is going to do, in what dire straits they'll find the Frontier fleet in once they mobilize. I'm glad Klan didn't die, I really like her voluptuous body even though I don't say much in those fanart threads, hehe. My favorite line in that episode was "Sagittarius One hit!" That scene made my jaw drop in shock and surprise, what could have happened to Isamu happened to him. LOL! We need episode 25 now dammit!!!!

[dreamweaver13]

Damn, now you've got me hoping for an ending where Leon says, "And I would've gotten away with it, if it weren't for you meddling kids!"

Zoiks!!

[dreamweaver13]

Nobody else is interested in the fact that Sheryl really Mao's granddaughter or what happened to Sheryl's mother?

Intrerested, of course! mighty interested. but you'll have to forgive the relative silence on the matter, because i don't think a lot of people were surprised. more of... relieved at a confirmation of something that has long been speculated on. i have loved sheryl's character since day 1; and the confirmation of the fact that she has actual old-school macross pedigree is just icing on the cake.

as for what happened to sheryl's mother? no, surprisingly i'm not interested as much. wouldn't care less if she's never identified, or if she simply died of natural causes. i'm just happy that sheryl nome is REALLY sheryl NOME, not just an unidentified kid with a fabricated identity.

[DeeBot]

Yeah, the Vajra queen seems to have 4 atrophied wing-like things in the wide shot, and then when we get up close it's almost like there's a head underneath that helmet-like thing. Creepy.

(Also, when Grace plunges down into the heart of the Vajra complex, it seems like she's going through electronic walls, not real ones. She's in virtual mode, and the walls that dissolve fizzle like typical fictional electronic walls do. So it seems like she's hacking down to the queen, rather than flying down.)

I'm sure Battle Frontier would dearly like to Macross Cannon the queen. Not sure if it would work (wouldn't this be a dandy time for the Vajra to develop a defense?), or if Battle Frontier is going to have more important targets to aim at.

Also... anyone catch the bit where Alto basically calls the VF-171EX a makeshift piece of junk? Nothing compared to the VF-25...

[dreamweaver13]

Wow! Alto went out like Isamu Dyson's plunge into the SDF-1.

There are still a lot of unknowns at this point. Where is the rest of the Macross Galaxy fleet? Are they all on this evil plan by Grace? How was Mr. Richard Biler connected to the Vajra? Why does the Queen Vajra look like the face plate and shoulder section of the Meltran Q-rau?

At this point, it seems there will probably be a more than just ending at Episode 25. If so, then there might be a movie version (or 2-hr episode) that explains some of this.

Or there is always season 2...

while i would also like there to be a longer finale (hell make it a 2 hour special. if it's the last ride, make it long!), but i have no such expectations. and, surprisingly, i thing it can be summed up in a regular-length episode. alto contacts ranka, gets her to wake up, ranka/sheryl combo communicates with the vajra, inter-species peace is declared, grace dies, leon arrested, bilra meets that "someone" and gives a 10 minute explanation of what happened from the start, then, finally, triangle is resolved.

[DeeBot]

then, finally, triangle is resolved.

I think it'll be resolved by Alto running to Ranka, now that he knows Brera is just her brother.

Mwahahahaha!

[dreamweaver13]

Also... anyone catch the bit where Alto basically calls the VF-171EX a makeshift piece of junk? Nothing compared to the VF-25...

makes sense, coz the VF25 is most likely what he'll be piloting in the finale. unless that VF-1 on top of mihoshi academy survived...

[Macross007]

Let's put it this way... There have been lots of elements of DYRL in this series as well as elements from the original TV show. Like Kawamori said once... "The truth lies somewhere in between them both...".

So to those saying that the DYRL elements aren't canon I can only say this: There's not proof of that... yet.

Man... You are making such a big deal of it... Is not like he tongued her or worse... It was just a freaking kiss!!!

Excuse me dude, but a discussion between two bridge girls in Macross 7 (canon at 100%) CLEARY stated that DYRL is a movie within the Macross universe.

Let's put it this way... There have been lots of elements of DYRL in this series as well as elements from the original TV show. Like Kawamori said once... "The truth lies somewhere in between them both...".

Kawamori stated this BEFORE making Macross 7. Since Macross 7 that statement is now invalid.

[zathras]

i'm hoping that episode 25 isn't going to turn out like the last episode of Gundam Seed Destiny where a few weeks later that there's a plus extended version of it to finish everything properly...

what i'd like to see Sarah royally pissed off at Grace for killing her family...remember how Sarah went postal in Macross Zero, i'd like see her do that to the Macross Galaxy fleet or what's left of it...

another thing to consider is that Grace's plan was to have ppl implanted with fold crystals...she doesn't need to implant them...they can just infect everyone with the type v virus and control everyone that's infected with it as the fold crystals are grown inside the person's body...the infected body would act as a transceiver for fold waves...now that they can parse the Vajra neural network, they can then use it to send commands to anyone infected with the type v virus...it wouldn't be difficult for them to mass produce a mutated version of the virus that would do just that instead of using the Vajra as enforcers to forced everyone to be implanted with fold crystals...more likely the Vajra are going to be carriers of the virus to the populated planets...

[David Hingtgen]

At this point I'm just plain annoyed that we haven't seen Grace in her flight suit again...

(I mean c'mon---a 1-sec tease, then she wears the same thing she always does for the rest of the series?) If anything it'd make more sense for her to wear the cyber-flight-suit in her virtual world, especially since it incorporates the "cyborg cheek things" like Brera has. And why even bother the artists to design the outfit for only 20 frames of animation?

[sharky]

Did gg Fansubs put out ep24 a little earlier than usual? I guess they were as excited by it as all of us here on Macrossworld

[kensei]

I'd be eternally grateful if they could come out with a script within 6 hours of the RAW. Too much to ask though, it's just a wish.

[Super Ostrich]

while i would also like there to be a longer finale (hell make it a 2 hour special. if it's the last ride, make it long!), but i have no such expectations. and, surprisingly, i thing it can be summed up in a regular-length episode. alto contacts ranka, gets her to wake up, ranka/sheryl combo communicates with the vajra, inter-species peace is declared, grace dies, leon arrested, bilra meets that "someone" and gives a 10 minute explanation of what happened from the start, then, finally, triangle is resolved.

And I think there is still time left to play another Macross Zero homage: the NUN reinforcement shows up late and determine to annihilate Vajra to take all credit. Ranka and the Vajra fold away...

Super Ostrich

[wolfx]

The mecha head is most likely to be Battle Galaxy. The Galaxy is linked with Fold Quartzes to Grace. It appears Alto tapped into their comunications by chance.

Thanks for missing the point. I was talking about Galaxy underneath the projection. And Galaxy linked to Grace is speculation.

The pills were mitigating the effects. This was stated clearly in episode 18. Therefore Grace was keeping her alive, although to the viewers this was cleverly made to look like Grace was poisoning Sheryl.

Then why the removal of the blood sample? Was it so recycle-bot will clean it in the recycling systems and through some lack of sanitation cause infection to the populace of Frontier?

Mitigate effects or cause effect? Klan clearly says the side effects of the pills...and Sheryl has them all. Are the side effects done by the pill or the virus?

The reason why Sheryl was discarded was because Ranka demonstrated her abilities in episode 7. gg host their scripts in their site, so you can easily access them and check facts in discussions like this one.

Information that the secondary element assumed dead 11 years ago, Code Q-1, has been living on this ship was also received and considered. At that point in time however, it was assigned relatively low priority.

[...]

Thus, hostilities between the Vajra and Frontier developed.

[...]

But the biggest miscalculation was how Code Q-1, Ranka Lee, displayed her abilities in this situation, right?

[...]

But Major Brera, who infiltrated the Vajra Mothership for surveillance purposes, intercepted a transmission of Sheryl's singing voice, in which was mingled some other type of fold wave component... When that protocol was discovered, it truly felt like the work of fate.

[...]

Operation Carnival had to be drastically revised.

By the way, it's not a virus That's why I called it a bacterium. Maybe it's a prion, though

Or you could just rewatch the episodes.

As of the Galia 4 episodes 12-13, the abilities of Code Q-1 was STILL unconfirmed and her abilities are still not proven until episode 14 thus the priority of her rescue was mooted by Grace when Brera suggested if he should save her. Therefore Grace did not factor Ranka as Q-1 only until end of episode 14 thus changing her plans.

So the "plot-hole" which was her original plan was not touched upon. Why discard Sheryl....when there's nobody to replace her. Did Grace have another Fairy ? We only know part of the original plan was to instill hatred between Frontier and the Vajra but after finding Ranka, the hatred thing didn't really touched any ground since Sheryl was still alive after all.

Why does it infect humans? Because it's a bacterium, that's what bacteria do The bacteria of a human can kill a gorilla

Contamination happens on exchange of bodily fluids (something like AIDS) so it was explained in a previous episode. Not poo

If the bacterium has a different effect on the humans, it could have a different effect on Hydras. For a real world example, cows with BSE behave abnormally and may be aggressive, thus they were called "mad cows".

The anime calls it a virus so I'll continue to as well.

And AFAIK poo is also loosely classified a bodily fluid and since it comes from the intestines, they are bound to have the vtype virus in them. But that's not the point. The point is how Ranshe got it. Though at this point, there are other more important things to resolve.

Virus choose their hosts. They don't just infect every donkey, monkey and cat on the planet and have different effects on each animal.(though some have resistance to it) Even for BSE, the effects of the disease in the cow are similar to the human host, that they both become mad and suffer from dementia due to degeneration of the brain. So the mad hydra angle is a mystery. And why Leon and Grace set up the island to have a mad V-type hydra on the loose which ultimately ended with the whole Hydra species on Frontier to be culled. Why? Again, we don't know.

What is this nest thing you are referring to?

Also part of Grace's elusive original plan....to use Frontier as a Vajra nest because of it being a bioplant. She was also destoying nests in wrecked ships possibly for purposes of hiding evidence? Why? Again we don't know.

This is only speculation

FV

For now yes. Hence the "maybe". Since Grace's original plan is now a big plothole. Killing Sheryl is like shooting herself in the leg based on the information revealed to us thus far.

another thing to consider is that Grace's plan was to have ppl implanted with fold crystals...she doesn't need to implant them...they can just infect everyone with the type v virus and control everyone that's infected with it as the fold crystals are grown inside the person's body...the infected body would act as a transceiver for fold waves...now that they can parse the Vajra neural network, they can then use it to send commands to anyone infected with the type v virus...it wouldn't be difficult for them to mass produce a mutated version of the virus that would do just that instead of using the Vajra as enforcers to forced everyone to be implanted with fold crystals...more likely the Vajra are going to be carriers of the virus to the populated planets...

She still needs to implant them to access the implant network though. And besides v-type virus is still a fatal infection unless u were birthed from someone carrying it.

Edited September 21, 2008 by wolfx

[grss1982]

makes sense, coz the VF25 is most likely what he'll be piloting in the finale. unless that VF-1 on top of mihoshi academy survived...

You meant this scene:

Makes you wonder if Alto is actually spying for Ozma & the pirates of SMS. IF he is spying for them then he's one magnificent actor.

EDIT: For some reason the subtitle disappears when I cap this scene. Anyways this is right after Alto's wingmen ralked about how cool this leader is.

Anyways the subs were (according to gg's): "Just as I thought, its nothing but a makeshift machine."

Edited September 21, 2008 by grss1982

[Mercurial Morpheus]

Nobody else is interested in the fact that Sheryl really Mao's granddaughter or what happened to Sheryl's mother?

Oh, I am, if only to understand why they bothered to alter Zero for the sake of it. It seems like a pointless gesture at the moment. It seems rather insignificant right now.

I say Alto get's picked up by the Quarter.

[Mercurial Morpheus]

Damn, now you've got me hoping for an ending where Leon says, "And I would've gotten away with it, if it weren't for you meddling kids!" happy.gif

Zoiks!!

Jinkies.

Edited September 21, 2008 by Mercurial Morpheus

[Gubaba]

Jinkies.

It could work...

Mikhail = Fred

Sheryl = Daphne

Nanase = Velma

And Alto and Ranka are Shaggy and Scooby, respectively.

Hell, you could even throw in Ai-kun as Scrappy-Doo, if you'd like.

[grss1982]

And I think there is still time left to play another Macross Zero homage: the NUN reinforcement shows up late and determine to annihilate Vajra to take all credit. Ranka and the Vajra fold away...

Super Ostrich

Speaking of Macross Zero Homage does'nt this image remind anyone of Macros Zero:

It reminds me a lot of the bridge of the Asuka II at the point when the C.O. says that Operation Iconoclasm has been given the go signal.

[NoNameSt11]

Then why the removal of the blood sample? Was it so recycle-bot will clean it in the recycling systems and through some lack of sanitation cause infection to the populace of Frontier?

Mitigate effects or cause effect? Klan clearly says the side effects of the pills...and Sheryl has them all. Are the side effects done by the pill or the virus?

The V-virus is in the blood stream, and Grace didn't want anybody figuring out Sheryl was infected. Also, Sheryl's fever and weakness was caused by the pills. Once she stopped taking them, she got better, but started to faint because of the virus.

[RichterX]

as for what happened to sheryl's mother? no, surprisingly i'm not interested as much. wouldn't care less if she's never identified, or if she simply died of natural causes. i'm just happy that sheryl nome is REALLY sheryl NOME, not just an unidentified kid with a fabricated identity.

Ok i have to mention this just in the hopes to crash your dreams but...

what if the photo of the the baby is the original Sheryl Nome, but Grace killed her and all relatives of Mao just for revenge and then gave the name Sheryl Nome to that random orphan she found.

[NoNameSt11]

Back to Episode 24 discussion...

I watched gg subs version of the Episode... Finally it has been finally confirmed that Grace wants to use the Vajra to impose the unification of mankind in a fold network intelligence with her as the main node...

Is that why she wants to get to the Queen nest? To take Ranka's place on it or what?

When the bridge bunnies described the fold network, they mentioned the center of it would be amplified and would dominate over the other nodes of the network. Right now, the queen is the center of the network with Ranka acting as a medium so Grace can interface with it. Her final agenda would be to kill the Queen and take her place, essentially becoming the ruler of the entire galaxy.

Ok i have to mention this just in the hopes to crash your dreams but...

what if the photo of the the baby is the original Sheryl Nome, but Grace killed her and all relatives of Mao just for revenge and then gave the name Sheryl Nome to that random orphan she found.

The baby has the same hair color as Sheryl and the note said she was given the earrings by her mother. Lets not make wild assumptions here.

Edited September 21, 2008 by NoNameSt11

[RichterX]

When the bridge bunnies described the fold network, they mentioned the center of it would be amplified and would dominate over the other nodes of the network. Right now, the queen is the center of the network with Ranka acting as a medium so Grace can interface with it. Her final agenda would be to kill the Queen and take her place, essentially becoming the ruler of the entire galaxy.

The baby has the same hair color as Sheryl and the note said she was given the earrings by her mother. Lets not make wild assumptions here.

She would basically become the Borg queen and all humanity in the galaxy just one more voice in a collective mind.

[openget]

Are the vajra the ones shooting those blue/red laser beams of death behind the giant ranka..thing, or is it something else..?

[RedWolf]

Ok i have to mention this just in the hopes to crash your dreams but...

what if the photo of the the baby is the original Sheryl Nome, but Grace killed her and all relatives of Mao just for revenge and then gave the name Sheryl Nome to that random orphan she found.

Crashing yours Sheryl has the rarre Alpha Bombay blood type the same blood type as the Protoculture Birdman and the Nome sisters.

[RichterX]

Are the vajra the ones shooting those blue/red laser beams of death behind the giant ranka..thing, or is it something else..?

Vajra "battleships" and other troops.

I would have really like to see Alto's fighter blow up when Ranka said the "I love you so" part of the song.

[grss1982]

Episode 23:

Episode 24:

So uhmmm how many Vajra Queens are actually in existence? OR are these two different? Maybe above is Queen and the lower one is Super Queen?

Edited September 21, 2008 by grss1982

[RichterX]

Episode 23:

Episode 24:

So uhmmm how many Vajra Queens are actually in existence? OR are these two different? Maybe above is Queen and the lower one is Super Queen?

There should be several with one main Queen.

[Kronnang Dunn]

Excuse me dude, but a discussion between two bridge girls in Macross 7 (canon at 100%) CLEARY stated that DYRL is a movie within the Macross universe.

Kawamori stated this BEFORE making Macross 7. Since Macross 7 that statement is now invalid.

Duh... Am I wrong or the song I heard Ranka sing during the main battle between Frontier and the Vajra was the same I heard in DYRL?

Besides... We can always have these guys to back me up...

DYRL ZENTRADI ARMOR DESIGNS... (Some from the TV show too...)

Edited September 21, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Keith]

So the "plot-hole" which was her original plan was not touched upon. Why discard Sheryl....when there's nobody to replace her. Did Grace have another Fairy ? We only know part of the original plan was to instill hatred between Frontier and the Vajra but after finding Ranka, the hatred thing didn't really touched any ground since Sheryl was still alive after all.

I think the recap episode mentions several "Fairy" candidates, of which Sheryl wasn't even the first. Besides, if anyone with a progressive V-type infection can potentially be the queen, then all she'd need to do is hold a pagent, & infect someone more aggresively than she did Sheryl.

At this point, I'd also be extremely surprised if Alto didn't bail out & join the Quarter, or at the very least, tool off in his Ex-Gear. And no duke, it's not ride armor, it doesn't even have a big wheel.

As for Grace swapping out blood samples, it could be becasue of the virus, but more likely, she wanted to hide Sheryl's relation to Ranka/Mao. Hell at this point who knows, maybe Grace is Ranshe's sister, and is actually Sheryl's mother. Any number of possabilities exist at this point.

What I want to know? Why is the Vajra Queen in a suedo humanoid shape? a leftover Protoculture weapon afterall?? point for point, the AFOS is stronger than the Vajra, but the big red one's resemblacne to a Glaug is undeniable. Maybe the Vajra were a prototype for a bio-mecha factory that evolvd after being left unattented.

I just wonder though, the Vajra Queen all sealed up, assumedly with no conciousness. Will Grace wake up something big bad that will bite her in the ass? Can I help it?

[Keith]

Is it just me, or does the Vajra queen look a lot like the Quebeley?