Podcast: Mobile Suit Gundam Char's Counterattack

[Ginrai]

But it all just kind of confirms my belief that, as contradictory as they are (to the series and to each other), the novels are the "real" version of the story...or at least, what the story would be like if Tomino hadn't had Bandai breathing down his neck.

Oh, so in the "real" version of the story,

Amuro dies in the third volume, but magically comes back

and it's really boring and crappy?

Yes, I am saying the Gundam 0079 novels are not very good. In fact, they are quite dry and bad.

Edited September 22, 2008 by Ginrai

[Gubaba]

Oh, so in the "real" version of the story,

Amuro dies in the third volume, but magically comes back

and it's really boring and crappy?

Yes, I am saying the Gundam 0079 novels are not very good. In fact, they are quite dry and bad.

Yes, I believe I stated that the novels contradict each other.

And I have to admit I wasn't terribly impressed with the writing on the novels, although I'm not sure if that's due to the translation or if the original just wasn't very good.

But regardless whether you like them or not, it most certainly is how Tomino would tell the story free of merchandising restrictions.

[kung flu]

If you extrapolate from Glemy's transformation in ZZ I think you can see how Char went from AEUG Quatro to CCA Char.

I think char was too disgusted by the federation elites' behaviour in ZZ that he had no choice but to go from Quattro to astroid crashing Char in CCA.

[Ginrai]

And I have to admit I wasn't terribly impressed with the writing on the novels, although I'm not sure if that's due to the translation or if the original just wasn't very good.

Tomino is not a great writer. The translator, Fred Shodt, also translated Osamu Tezuka's Phoenix and that stuff is poetic and moving. Besides which, no translation has anything to do with scenes totalyl void of drama, and all of the Amuro and Sayla sex stuff is not remotely romantic and just really gross. Seriously? People carry public hairs into battle as good luck talismans? Tomino is far more interesting as a director than as a writer.

Edited September 22, 2008 by Ginrai

[Ginrai]

I think char was too disgusted by the federation elites' behaviour in ZZ that he had no choice but to go from Quattro to astroid crashing Char in CCA.

His goal was to save the earth, free it from people so it could recover, and allow mankind to move onto the next stage of evolution. And somehow destroying the earth and killing billions meets that criteria? Like I said on the podcast, Tomino just needed a neo-Hitler since every Tomino Gundam has one, and since Char was designated bad guy this time, they just rewrote Char into Gihren. This way out of character.

[Gubaba]

Tomino is not a great writer. The translator, Fred Shodt, also translated Osamu Tezuka's Phoenix and that stuff is poetic and moving. Besides which, no translation has anything to do with scenes totalyl void of drama, and all of the Amuro and Sayla sex stuff is not remotely romantic and just really gross. Seriously? People carry public hairs into battle as good luck talismans? Tomino is far more interesting as a director than as a writer.

I can't argue with that, although I will point out that a lot of the dialogue from the translation which is taken verbatim from the show is tossed out with a casualness lacking in the original (Example 1: "I hate to admit it, but maybe I made a mistake. I'll just have to write it off to youthful inexperience...").

I wonder if Tomino got any better, though. I mean, he's written almost twenty Gundam novels, and who knows how many Dunbine books. I certainly HOPE that by the time he got to Beltorchika's Children and Hathaway's Flash, he'd improved...

[kung flu]

His goal was to save the earth, free it from people so it could recover, and allow mankind to move onto the next stage of evolution. And somehow destroying the earth and killing billions meets that criteria?

Well the elites on earth didn't really care about the earth too or the people, when Hamarn dropped a colony on Ireland, the elites were not bothered as they said it would help reduce the population, This is why char wants to move people out in space in a much faster pace, by forcing the elites into space and letting the earth heal even though he'll half destroy it. Once in space let evolution take place without the elites interfering.

[Ginrai]

Well the elites on earth didn't really care about the earth too or the people, when Hamarn dropped a colony on Ireland, the elites were not bothered as they said it would help reduce the population, This is why char wants to move people out in space in a much faster pace, by forcing the elites into space and letting the earth heal even though he'll half destroy it. Once in space let evolution take place without the elites interfering.

This is insane. Destroying the planet will not heal it.

[VF5SS]

The whole point is to get the human beings off the planet so it can heal. Killing everything on the planet still leaves the planet itself to rebuild. The planet doesn't really care if it gets hit with an asteroid.

[kung flu]

The whole point is to get the human beings off the planet so it can heal. Killing everything on the planet still leaves the planet itself to rebuild. The planet doesn't really care if it gets hit with an asteroid.

Yeah, this way the elites would no longer have a "playground" anymore, while everyone else lived in space. Gundam has always shown how the elites treated the Earth and the people in space, they are so comfortable on earth they won't even move to space themselves. What Char is doing is actually giving them a kick up the arse so they can get a move on and finish the space colonisation which was ment to include everyone.

[Roger]

"We need to burn the village in order to save it" has been used as an excuse for countless atrocities long before humankind went into space.

I never had a problem with Char's characterization in CCA, because I felt he was consistently portrayed throughout MS Gundam and Z-Gundam as someone who had no reservations about using people as tools to further his own ideals. They took the time to show that Char certainly had regrets and deep emotional pain over it, but if he was a truly good person like Amuro, he wouldn't have done those things in the first place.

Char's little Freudian revelation while broiling in his escape pod does serve to explain some of his behavior, I suppose, but I don't think it was intended at all by Tomino to excuse it.

(Downloading the podcast now.)

[Phyrox]

The planet doesn't really care if it gets hit with an asteroid.

If by "planet" you mean rock and dirt, then probably not. But then what's the point.

If you care about any of the plants and animals, then yeah...they are gonna care a lot.

[VF5SS]

As long as Texas colony has plenty of horses, Char doesn't care.

[kung flu]

As long as Texas colony has plenty of horses, Char doesn't care.

Nah, they're all dead, thanks to the nuclear mine field Char planted

[Ginrai]

The whole point is to get the human beings off the planet so it can heal. Killing everything on the planet still leaves the planet itself to rebuild. The planet doesn't really care if it gets hit with an asteroid.

Uh, ALL LIFE ON THE PLANET IS DESTROYED. What's left to heal if you kill all the animals and plants? It's not like this is a magic humans-only asteroid that can't kill anything that's not a human.

[taksraven]

I don't know which i hate more, Quess (who I don't really hate that much, since she is just a typical whiney teenager) or the whiney voices of the podcasters. Especially the chick in the threesome who reminds me of a typical university feminist. (Except this chick is an anime nerd of course).

They clearly hate Char's Counterattack so much I wondered why they even bothered to make the podcast.

One of their clear complaints is that Char's character seems to have changed. Well, people do change in the real world, one failed artist became one of the worst murderers in history.

Taksraven

[VF5SS]

I didn't think I sounded too whiney. I was talking about how much I love Gyunei and how masculine Char was. You're missing the point, Jeremy. Life on earth has been shown to be pretty resilient. Something will survive even if it's just bacteria that eats fallout or something. The whole point is to remove people from the planet and if that includes most earth life with it, so be it.

[yellowlightman]

Uh, ALL LIFE ON THE PLANET IS DESTROYED. What's left to heal if you kill all the animals and plants? It's not like this is a magic humans-only asteroid that can't kill anything that's not a human.

You uh, might want to brush up on the extinction of the dinosaurs. Dropping a colony onto the earth isn't going to kill absolutely everything.

[Noyhauser]

I don't know which i hate more, Quess (who I don't really hate that much, since she is just a typical whiney teenager) or the whiney voices of the podcasters. Especially the chick in the threesome who reminds me of a typical university feminist. (Except this chick is an anime nerd of course).

They clearly hate Char's Counterattack so much I wondered why they even bothered to make the podcast.

One of their clear complaints is that Char's character seems to have changed. Well, people do change in the real world, one failed artist became one of the worst murderers in history.

Taksraven

Apparently you've never listened to their other podcasts, many of which are like this, and totally deserved. Do you just want to hear effusive praise for everything, like the vapid fanboys on here? They skewer things that deserve to be skewered, like everything from Oshii. Its hit or miss, but mostly hits.

[yellowlightman]

Apparently you've never listened to their other podcasts, many of which are like this, and totally deserved. Do you just want to hear effusive praise for everything, like the vapid fanboys on here? They skewer things that deserve to be skewered, like everything from Oshii. Its hit or miss, but mostly hits.

Hah, now who sounds like the fanboy?

[Noyhauser]

Hah, now who sounds like the fanboy?

Heh, Got me there.

I just didn't think the comment was completely warranted, since the savaging of films is part of the podcasts' shtick, for lack of a better word. But yeah I do like listening to it.

[kung flu]

The characters in gundam have always been more believeable compared to other animes of the same genre. They are never really depicted as simple good and evil. We get all these factions in gundam, yet on both sides there are good and bad people, just like real life. Since first gundam, Char was always ment to be a bad guy, but at the same time he's also shown to be a good person. If he was depicted to be totally evil from the start, i think people would have less of a problem with his change in CCA.

[Ginrai]

You uh, might want to brush up on the extinction of the dinosaurs. Dropping a colony onto the earth isn't going to kill absolutely everything.

This isn't a colony. This is a massive asteroid and sure looked like an extinction level event.

[Ginrai]

taksraven, are you seriously suggesting the only reviews should be positive reviews? Give me a break.

[dizman]

Never stir up the hornets nest called gundam fandom, NEVER! Anyways CCA always seemed to me the weakest (well maybe ZZ Gundam is the weak one) in the original UC series. What I never got was how Char expected everyone to flee to space AFTER the asteroid thing had hit earth, I doubt anyone would make it off the planet. Oh well that means less people have to become newtypes and we can love each other even more. Maybe in a few thousand years they could go back to earth and start the whole process over again.

[Tinderfitles]

Char's character has always seemed to me, to follow the Consequentialism archetype. So CCA has always kind of pointed to the logical conclusion, for myself atleast.

[taksraven]

taksraven, are you seriously suggesting the only reviews should be positive reviews? Give me a break.

No, i am not suggesting that, but it would be like me reviewing chick flicks, a pointless activity since I hate them. Or a better example would be if I was to review the Stargate series (OMG, no). I am not saying that a person must only review things that they like, but there are times when it is pointless to review things that you hate.

I am not saying that CCA was perfect, it certainly did have its flaws, but maybe they need to be approached with an open mind rather than with a mind that has been closed by hatred.

The main points in the review that bothered me was the fact that the reviewers were slagging off characters for not being likable (duh, welcome to real life) and for having character flaws. (god forbid, not everybody is perfect). I mean, Quess IS a bratty teenager, but there are millions of bratty teenagers out there in reality, so why is such a character unwelcome in anime?

The review conveyed an attitude of arrogance which always makes me say to people, if you can do better, try to do it yourself.

(I am probably going to cop more wrath from the fanboys now, heaven help me)

Taksraven

Edited September 24, 2008 by taksraven

[Ginrai]

Maybe you missed the part where we said for a movie that was supposed to be about Char and Amuro's feud being resolved about 90% of was Quess adventures in being a brat. That was the biggest problem. This movie was a total disappointment in its stated goal: to resolve Char and Amuro's story.

Edited September 25, 2008 by Ginrai

[yellowlightman]

This isn't a colony. This is a massive asteroid and sure looked like an extinction level event.

Oh, you're right... not a colony.

Still, an extinction level event is what occurred with the dinosaurs and hey, look, the Earth still has life on it. A big impact won't kill EVERYTHING on the planet, just enough to clean up most of the species and give Earth a chance to settle again... which is what Char was going for.

[Morpheus]

Oh, you're right... not a colony.

Still, an extinction level event is what occurred with the dinosaurs and hey, look, the Earth still has life on it. A big impact won't kill EVERYTHING on the planet, just enough to clean up most of the species and give Earth a chance to settle again... which is what Char was going for.

The impact wouldn't cause much destruction, but the following nuclear winter from the dust scattered on the atmosphere will throw Earth into an endless winter which would devastate the ecology (plant dies, animal dies and human dies), this will force humanity to migrate to space in order to save itself and evolve into newtype, that's Char original plan I think.

I think a higher level of destruction was achieved in Gundam X with mass colony drop, but some people survive it still.

[Phyrox]

Bottom line is this: a catastrophic asteroid impact is gonna be way worse for the ecology and health of the earth’s biosphere than man’s continued inhabitance.

And if all he wants is to get people into space so they can evolve, there are certainly more effective ways to accomplish such a goal.

I never really took to CCA, for a number of reasons, but the whole “I’m gonna drop a huge space-rock on earth, for it’s own benefit” always struck me as one of it’s weakest points, plot-wise.

The review conveyed an attitude of arrogance which always makes me say to people, if you can do better, try to do it yourself.

Where's your podcast review then?

Edited September 25, 2008 by Phyrox

[Ginrai]

Bottom line is this: a catastrophic asteroid impact is gonna be way worse for the ecology and health of the earth’s biosphere than man’s continued inhabitance.

And if all he wants is to get people into space so they can evolve, there are certainly more effective ways to accomplish such a goal.

I never really took to CCA, for a number of reasons, but the whole “I’m gonna drop a huge space-rock on earth, for it’s own benefit” always struck me as one of it’s weakest points, plot-wise.

Thanks Phyrox, that's exactly what I was trying to say.

[kung flu]

Bottom line is this: a catastrophic asteroid impact is gonna be way worse for the ecology and health of the earth’s biosphere than man’s continued inhabitance.

Earth has always been one of the main reasons why all the wars are being fought in Gundam. By making the earth uninhabitable to humans, no one would fight wars over it. By the time the earth heals, humans would have evolved to newtypes, meaning they'll be no more wars and no need for Earth. After all, newtypes are ment to be people who can live without war, but are being used by old types for wars.

[Ginrai]

Earth has always been one of the main reasons why all the wars are being fought in Gundam. By making the earth uninhabitable to humans, no one would fight wars over it. By the time the earth heals, humans would have evolved to newtypes, meaning they'll be no more wars and no need for Earth. After all, newtypes are ment to be people who can live without war, but are being used by old types for wars.

This is not compatible with the stated goal of saving earth from mankind.

[kung flu]

This is not compatible with the stated goal of saving earth from mankind.

Don't you get it? mankind won't need to live on earth any more, hence earth heals(nature takes over) without human interference. Humans on earth, means destruction and pollution. If Char succeeded and all people lived in space, the earth has a chance to recover. It'll take thousands, if not million of years to recover from the asteroid attacks and in those years, people are meant to have evolved to a stage where they no longer need earth to live on. So the earth is saved after all.

Edit:- if you still don't understand, think of a cancer patient. In order to remove the cancer you use radiotherapy to remove/kill the cancer cells. By bombarding the body with radiation the cancer is being reduced, but at the same time the radiation is harmful to the patient's body too, he'll begin to feel week/sick and lose his hair etc. Once the cancer is completely removed, the patient still has to recover from all the raditaion side effects which would take months or years. In this case Earth is the patient, Humans is the cancer and the astroids is the radiation.

Edited September 26, 2008 by kung flu