Parsing the Mythology of Mayan

[Gubaba]

An interesting discussion started up in the Ranka Lee - Innocent naive teenager or Evil war criminal about the Mayan myth of the Birdman and the Fishman, and what it meant. Which I found odd, because I thought that the myth really wasn't that complicated.

Going back to episodes one and two of Zero, though, made me realize that there's a lot more in the myth than I recalled, and that it's really pretty strange.

Now, first off, there must be a lot of truth in it, or else A) it wouldn't take up so much of Zero episode 2's time, and B) they went through all the trouble to demonstrate that the Mayan people have some advanced scientific knowledge in the guise of legends (specifically, Sara talking about blood containing "two snakes entangled together," a clear reference to DNA).

So here's the myth:

A long time ago, when the world was at its beginning, there was the sea and the wind. At that time, man was a fish. One day, the Birdman, who traveled between the stars, came across the sea. Before the great wings of the Birdman, man said in awe and fear, “You can fly, but you do not know the depths of the sea. What a sad and pitiful being you must be,” he laughed. The angry Birdman then cut the man’s tail and fin. From those wounds, legs grew, and the first man, Rooy Kamu, was born.

Rooy Kamu went on a journey by ship. At that time, there was no land yet. Thirsty Rooy Kamu cried sorrowfully, “What an unfortunate man I am. I am full of thirst, yet I have no spring to quench it.” And so, the Birdman dropped a sea-turtle’s shell. The sea turtle’s shell hit a rock and shattered. And so, that shell became the island of Maya, and the splinters of the shell became the surrounding islands.

Rooy Kamu stepped onto the island and cried sorrowfully, “What an unfortunate man I am. I have to live alone in such a place. I have no wife to share my joy and sorrow.” And so the Birdman descended and cut his own neck. The blood flowing from his neck took the form of a human and became the woman Rooy Waka. Rooy Kamu and Rooy Waka married and had many children.

Then Rooy Waka, who have given birth to many children, went home to the other side of the sea, to beyond the stars. “Oh, come back, my wife.” To which the Birdman replied, “Oh, my husband, Rooy Kamu. The day I shall return is the day the reign of heaven will crumble. On that day, the Song of Destruction will echo throughout this world.”

Now, the Bridman is of course the Protoculture, and the Fishman is life on earth before any creature had crawled out of the sea. The Protoculture worked on the genes of earth life and made something that would eventually become humankind. Similarly, the Birdman's blood would be a reference to the Alpha blood carried by Sara and Mao (and apparently Sheryl).

But as for the rest of the myth...Huh? Is Rooy Kamu's journey by ship a reference to anything? What's the significance of Mayan being formed by a turtle shell? (When I first saw Zero, I figured that meant that Mayan was actually a spaceship, which would allow the inhabitants to leave before the Zentradi arrived. I thought it was a stupid idea, though, and I'm glad I was wrong.) And the Birdman leaving...? Sure, the Protoculture left earth, but the Birdman didn't. And if the woman formed by the Birdman's blood is the one who leaves, why is it the Birdman that says to fear his return?

Of course, I'm sure I'm reading too much into this...it's a myth, and thus is meant to have the air of something transmitted orally for many, many generations, and a lot of weird and extraneous things get stuck, barnacle-like, to mythology. But just in case, I'm wondering if anyone else has any ideas.

[azrael]

Then Rooy Waka, who have given birth to many children, went home to the other side of the sea, to beyond the stars. “Oh, come back, my wife.” To which the Birdman replied, “Oh, my husband, Rooy Kamu. The day I shall return is the day the reign of heaven will crumble. On that day, the Song of Destruction will echo throughout this world.”

The best way to look at it is to parallel Shin and Sara.

[RedWolf]

Well there is the apocalypse legend that the god Procacha (Protoculture) ordered the destruction of humanity but the Birdman in disobedience cut off its head.

As humanity becomes more warlike the head comes closer to body.

Eventually it will sing the Song of Destruction.

But if Zero is any indication the actions of the Birdman is closely linked to Sara's emotions.

Negative emotion first creeped in the Birdman head as Sara sensed Mao snogging Shin.

While people tried to point out that Mao was jealous of Sara and Shin, Sara is jealous of the closeness of Shin and Mao as she stalks from the corner.

Damn women are scary!

We see this too with Alto, Sheryl and Ranka. You could say both Sheryl and Ranka has a sisterly bond as they don't hate one another.

[Isamu Starkiller]

To which the Birdman replied, “Oh, my husband, Rooy Kamu. The day I shall return is the day the reign of heaven will crumble. On that day, the Song of Destruction will echo throughout this world.”

As was previously mentioned Sara's negative emotions awoke the birdman. (it's return)? When she saw Shins Valk get shot in the head her cries = vibrations in the air=fold transmission=rectivate the birdman.

When the protoculture left earth I think they left the birdman as a fail safe device, if we (miclones) had evolved and were ready to "go aboard a ship" to space without anger and hostilities within our culture it would allow it, other wise it was programed to eradicate us (a creation of the PC). We shouldn't have gained access to space but Shin and Sara's love = Rooy Kamu and Rooy Waka love and because of that we have done what the protoculture did not intend. Because of Shin and Sara we have miclones such as Leon out in space.

The PC have alot of creations running amuck in the galaxy...

I was really hoping to see the return of the Birdman in this series at the finale. Did Mao's blood transfusion introduce the V-Type strain into the PC's miclone experiment? Is there a connection between the Vajra and the Birdman? If so there's a connection to the PC

[RedWolf]

Mao's fold quartz earrings she inherited from her parents says it does. (Blu-Ray)

What are the chances that the Birdman and a fold quartz is at the same area of the planet?

[dreamweaver13]

An interesting discussion started up in the Ranka Lee - Innocent naive teenager or Evil war criminal about the Mayan myth of the Birdman and the Fishman, and what it meant. Which I found odd, because I thought that the myth really wasn't that complicated.

Going back to episodes one and two of Zero, though, made me realize that there's a lot more in the myth than I recalled, and that it's really pretty strange.

Now, first off, there must be a lot of truth in it, or else A) it wouldn't take up so much of Zero episode 2's time, and B) they went through all the trouble to demonstrate that the Mayan people have some advanced scientific knowledge in the guise of legends (specifically, Sara talking about blood containing "two snakes entangled together," a clear reference to DNA).

So here's the myth:

Xxxx

Now, the Bridman is of course the Protoculture, and the Fishman is life on earth before any creature had crawled out of the sea. The Protoculture worked on the genes of earth life and made something that would eventually become humankind. Similarly, the Birdman's blood would be a reference to the Alpha blood carried by Sara and Mao (and apparently Sheryl).

But as for the rest of the myth...Huh? Is Rooy Kamu's journey by ship a reference to anything? What's the significance of Mayan being formed by a turtle shell? (When I first saw Zero, I figured that meant that Mayan was actually a spaceship, which would allow the inhabitants to leave before the Zentradi arrived. I thought it was a stupid idea, though, and I'm glad I was wrong.) And the Birdman leaving...? Sure, the Protoculture left earth, but the Birdman didn't. And if the woman formed by the Birdman's blood is the one who leaves, why is it the Birdman that says to fear his return?

Of course, I'm sure I'm reading too much into this...it's a myth, and thus is meant to have the air of something transmitted orally for many, many generations, and a lot of weird and extraneous things get stuck, barnacle-like, to mythology. But just in case, I'm wondering if anyone else has any ideas.

Thanks for starting this thread. i've always found the mythology stories in macross zero very interesting. and the first time i watched it, i paid special attention to the mythology. the geek in me was trying to figure out how much of the mythology was related to the actual facts concerning the coming of the protoculture. it was interesting how much the narration certainly had the "feel" of a typical creation mythology -- a good story, good imagery, but mostly unbelievable. but with our knowledge about protoculture from SDFM and macross 7, the mythology certainly took on a new meaning and significance.

of course, we could all agree that the myth shouldn't all be taken literally. i think of it as a roadmap of the true history and origin of mankind (in the macross universe), but interpreted by someone who had no understanding of technology. as arthur clarke said, "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". hence, all these references to space turtles and shells. but it's still amazing just how much of it can be true.

A long time ago, when the world was at its beginning, there was the sea and the wind. At that time, man was a fish. One day, the Birdman, who traveled between the stars, came across the sea. Before the great wings of the Birdman, man said in awe and fear, “You can fly, but you do not know the depths of the sea. What a sad and pitiful being you must be,” he laughed. The angry Birdman then cut the man’s tail and fin. From those wounds, legs grew, and the first man, Rooy Kamu, was born.

i would surmise a guess that no such conversation took place. hehe. whatever sea creature the protoculture toyed with was, i'm guessing, incapable of intelligent communication. much less being haughty at the protoculture's s supposed inability to swim.

so the protoculture took that sea creature (or a multitude of sea creatures), experimented with genes and started to create what would eventually be humans.

Rooy Kamu went on a journey by ship. At that time, there was no land yet. Thirsty Rooy Kamu cried sorrowfully, “What an unfortunate man I am. I am full of thirst, yet I have no spring to quench it.” And so, the Birdman dropped a sea-turtle’s shell. The sea turtle’s shell hit a rock and shattered. And so, that shell became the island of Maya, and the splinters of the shell became the surrounding islands.

well, since the first humans were most probably created in the protoculture's ship or island, it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine the first "man" going on a journey in that ship. you could say that a "test tube baby" took a journey in a test tube first, as weird as that sounds.

could the protoculture have created the mayan islands (it would be easy enough to create an island through landfill for a civilization as advances as the protoculture)? yup. is it also possible that the protoculture simply found a pre-existing group of islands and put the first humans there? still plausible. from the point of view of the first humans, those islands still came out of nowhere.

Rooy Kamu stepped onto the island and cried sorrowfully, “What an unfortunate man I am. I have to live alone in such a place. I have no wife to share my joy and sorrow.” And so the Birdman descended and cut his own neck. The blood flowing from his neck took the form of a human and became the woman Rooy Waka. Rooy Kamu and Rooy Waka married and had many children.

here's where i think the origin story gets tricky. most origin stories would have man created first, then woman. in fact, the way the mayan myth goes, it sounded eerily like christian adam and eve mythology. yup, down to the details where adam wanted companionship (read as "horny") and god created woman out of his own bone.

I would hazard a guess that man and woman were created at the same time. the protoculture/birdman spilling his own blood to create woman should apply to both genders. so, it's not so much that the protculture simply experimented genetically with the earth's sea-creatures to create another random intelligent being. it's more like the protoculture using its own blood and DNA to tweak the creature's genetic structure in order for it to become similar to the protoculure. OR it could even be a case of the protoculture cloning itself but adding the sea-creature's DNA or genetic make-up to the mix, to make the first human an indigenous intelligent race. either way would work, and either would require the protoculture using some of its own blood for the experiment.

OR how about this. the first man was a sea-creature clone with a protoculture upgrade. the first woman was a protoculture clone with a sea-creature DNA infusion. let them procreate, then you would have the first actual new species called "humans".

Then Rooy Waka, who have given birth to many children, went home to the other side of the sea, to beyond the stars. “Oh, come back, my wife.” To which the Birdman replied, “Oh, my husband, Rooy Kamu. The day I shall return is the day the reign of heaven will crumble. On that day, the Song of Destruction will echo throughout this world.”

this would imply that by the time the protoculture left earth, the first woman was still alive. if so, this would mean that humanity was merely at its infancy. 2 or 3 generations at best. which would explain why the protoculture creation story was relatively unknown, and a handful of people were left with the task of trying to tell that story in the best way that they can. yes, with a space turtle.

it could also imply that the first people already understood that humanity was a result of a mix of both human and protoculture. thus, when the protoculture left, it could have been symbolized as humanity's "wife" leaving earth; leaving her "husband" (the humans) to fend for himself.

so why the doomsday scenario? why the need to fear the protoculture's return? why was the AFOS left?

1. maybe the protoculture had no intention of returning. if other space-faring creatures were to return, it wouldn't be them. it would be the zentraedi. hence, the song of destruction. the AFOS' task would be to either fight the zentraedi, or to self-destruct earth along with the zentraedi fleet.

2. maybe the AFOS was left behind as a failsafe device (as isamu starkiller pointed out). there are trigger points: if the humans ever developed sufficient technology to find, capture and re-attach the two parts of the AFOS, and if the humans by that time were "warlike", then they would be considered a threat to the protoculture and space, and thus should be eliminated.

in either case, the "return of the birdman" (either by way of the AFOS, or the zentraedi) should definitely be feared as it would bring about the "song of destruction".

Edited September 15, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[RedWolf]

Humans are not directly a Protoculture creation like the Zentradi as Dr. Hasford (old man with AUN) pointed out the Protoculture accelerated our evolution through viruses.

Zola seems to support that theory. Zolans evolved from marsupials to humanoids.

Humans on the other hand evolved from primates.

Also notice the decrepancy of the intial Protoculture colonists who seeded life on Earth around 500,000 years ago , 3 years before the Protodevlin war, and the arrival of the Birdman 10,000 years ago.

It is a pretty big gap. I doubt the Mayan people can keep an oral tradition that long.

Heck were not even Homo-Sapiens then too.

Protoculture History

BC 500,000s

* First year of Protoculture Calendar (PC 0).

PC 2400s

* Protoculture's first space colonization begins (with the use of sub-light-velocity spaceships). [PC 2600s]

PC 2500s

* The mass production of giant biological weapons for proxy warfare, "Zentradi," is begun. The "Zentradi" contribute greatly to the expansion of the Protoculture's sphere of influence.[PC 2600s]

PC 2700s

* Protoculture's second space colonization begins (by super-light-velocity spaceships using fold navigation).

PC 2800s

* Unification of Stellar Republic by Protoculture.

PC 2860

* Within the excessively overexpanding Stellar Republic, internal rifts begin forming. The internal rifts eventually develop into large-scale conflicts that split the Stellar Republic into two.

PC 2865

* Development on powerful biological weapons based on the Zentradi, "Evil Series," begins. [Note: "Evil" pronounced as "Eh-vil."] Evil is the abbreviation of the Protoculture term for "advanced (Zentradi) all-enivron biological weapon." Trial production takes place on a scientifically advanced planet (the first planet of the star system later known as Varauta), but because of unresolvable problems with the weapons' power exceeding the fighting capability requirements, trial production is halted.

PC 2868

* On the [aforementioned] scientifically advanced planet, the existence of a sub-universe is confirmed. According to survey results, this sub-universe is abound with super high levels of extra-dimensional energy, and this energy is discovered to have the potential for application.The trial production of super dimension energy gates which can supply energy from the sub-universe is begun, and genetically engineered biological super dimension organs are developed. These biological super dimension organs are extremely compact, and they are expected to supply enormous amounts of energy.

* Because of power problems, the trial production begins implementing the technology from the terminated "Evil Series." No problems are uncovered in simulations.

* The internal conflicts within the Stellar Republic revives the development of the "Evil Series."

PC 2870

* A Protoculture survey ship stops temporarily on "Earth." By genetically reconstructing the native life, it plots the emergence of a sub-Protoculture adapted to the planetary enivronment, "Humankind," to prepare for future colonization. During its return to its home planet, the survey ship is destroyed by military ships opposed to the Stellar Republic. Records of Earth and Humankind are eventually lost. [PC 2900]

PC 2871

* On the [aforementioned] scientifically advanced planet, trial production of the "Evil Series" for final tests is begun. Seven Evil Series weapons of seven types including a highly mobile, humanoid "Sivil" for search-and-destroy functions and a super-scale, high-powered "Glavil" for fleet warfare are completed. The Evil Series tests are begun, but at the same time biological super dimension organs overload and extradimensional energy is released. The Evil Series' bodies are occupied by the spiritual energy life form from the sub-universe and thus creating, from the massive fighting capability of the Evil Series and the enormous potential of the spiritial energy, beings with extraordinary fighting ability and a coveting for life energy, "Spiritia." They covet Spiritia in order to continue existing as extra-dimensional beings in this universe. They begin invading the surrounding planets and systems using spaceships and weapons of people from the scientifically advanced planet that they brainwashed. (They later become known as the Supervision Army).

* Three months later, the internal conflicts of the Protoculture Stellar Republic are halted as efforts are devoted against the extradimensional energy beings occupying the Evil Series, dubbed "Protodeviln." However, over 30% of the Stellar Republic and several hundred systems are under Protodeviln control and the Spiritia-deprived people number several hundred billion. The Zentradi faction fight but, due to the prime directive "Do not interfere with Protoculture," are unable to fight effectively against the brainwashed Protoculture people under the control of the Protodeviln.

PC 2872

* Nine months after the emergence of Protodeviln, over 85% of life in the Protoculture is lost. Direct combat between the Protodeviln with their [army of] manipulated Protoculture people (Supervision Army) and the Zentradi.

* Approximately one year after the emergence of Protodeviln, their power begins to rapidly decline.

* "Protodeviln sealing operation." People (known as Anima Spiritia) who are significant in the war against the Protodeviln are determined to have influential powers over the Protodeviln. Protodeviln faction are completely sealed in special chambers through the efforts of Anima Spiritia.

PC 2875

* The network among each colonized planet disintegrates. Control of the Zentradi faction is lost and the reissuing of the prime directive "Do not interfere with Protoculture" becomes ineffective.

PC 3000

* Dissolution of Stellar Republic.

* Oppostion between the Supervision and Zentradi factions begins.

PC 5000

* In what still remains of the Stellar Republic, only a small number of separated colonized planets, colonization fleets, space colony clusters [bunches], and other populations at the edge of the galaxy are left.

PC 25000

* Near annihilation of Protoculture.

The Birdman's bio technology suggests post Protodevlin War development. Also note that the Protoculture network of communication was broken around 500,000 years ago.

What if they replaced it with something more sophisticated?

Grace and company mentioned that they would do what the Protoculture couldn't or wouldn't do.

The Spiral symbols on the Birdman, red Vajra and Vajra homeworld suggests it is the same faction of Protoculture involved.

Also Mao's family heirloom as Fold Quatz earring suggests this.

Grace proposed her fold network implant theory to Ranshe at the cost of the Vajra.

[dreamweaver13]

Humans are not directly a Protoculture creation like the Zentradi as Dr. Hasford (old man with AUN) pointed out the Protoculture accelerated our evolution through viruses.

Zola seems to support that theory. Zolans evolved from marsupials to humanoids.

Humans on the other hand evolved from primates.

Also notice the decrepancy of the intial Protoculture colonists who seeded life on Earth around 500,000 years ago , 3 years before the Protodevlin war, and the arrival of the Birdman 10,000 years ago.

It is a pretty big gap. I doubt the Mayan people can keep an oral tradition that long.

Heck were not even Homo-Sapiens then too.

Protoculture History

The Birdman's bio technology suggests post Protodevlin War development. Also note that the Protoculture network of communication was broken around 500,000 years ago.

What if they replaced it with something more sophisticated?

Grace and company mentioned that they would do what the Protoculture couldn't or wouldn't do.

The Spiral symbols on the Birdman, red Vajra and Vajra homeworld suggests it is the same faction of Protoculture involved.

Also Mao's family heirloom as Fold Quatz earring suggests this.

Grace proposed her fold network implant theory to Ranshe at the cost of the Vajra.

good points on the time gap. how about this then...

PC arrives and starts tinkering with earth's local sea-creatures 500,000BC (or to be more precise, 497,130BC). PC continues genetic manipulation on its ship or city (thus, effectively taking the "rooy kamu" on a voyage aboard the birdman's ship). PC citizens leave earth, leaving behind its project on auto-pilot.

fast forward to time of the homo-sapiens. the newly developed human race is ready to be released into the world. birdman releases humanity onto the mayan islands, and disappears to go into hibernation (AFOS), until such time that humanity becomes technologically advanced enough to become a threat.

[RedWolf]

The question is did the Birdman really contribute to overall human evolution or just the Mayan people.

10,000 years ago isn't really that long ago as it is the Neolithic era.

The story goes that Rooy Waka was given by the Birdman to Rooy Kanu and they had children.

Then she left Rooy Kanu as she has to return to the stars.

Kinda like Kaguya-hime who came to Earth lived as human but has to go back to the moon.

Or the story of Tanabata or Ori-hime even the story of a tennyo who marries a mortal man.

Also note the dooms day story it is said that the god Procacha ordered the Birdman to destroy humanity but it refused cutting it's head off.

Now Procacha could be a bastardization of the Protoculture name.

According to the chronology all records of Earth was lost perhaps even Zola included.

Now notice Zola's cultural development. The majority of Zolan's loosing their written and oral traditions suggests a catastrophy in their history that lead to a dark age.

That is why they were so enthusiastic in adopting human names and culture.

The likely scenario is that some Protoculture faction did not like the evolving species that mimic the Protoculture.

Foreseeing them as a danger like the Zentradi and Supervision Army an order was given to wipe out the miclone races. But this was stopped.

Thus the compromise. If these races were to become an interstellar threat they would be destroyed.

A Protoculture who became the legendary Rooy Waka was the one responsible to stop the slaughter.

Rooy Waka left behind the Fold Quartz earrings to the natives of Earth.

Similarly perhaps three eyed Zolan snakes (Which kinda remind me of Ai-kun) were left for the Zolans by the Protoculture.

Such a violent response to rising miclone races suggest a different faction of Protoculture.

The only one faction we did get answers was the Anima Spiritia that sealed the Protodevlin.

That was 500,000 years ago.

Edited September 15, 2008 by RedWolf

[dreamweaver13]

Also note the dooms day story it is said that the god Procacha ordered the Birdman to destroy humanity but it refused cutting it's head off.

Now Procacha could be a bastardization of the Protoculture name.

According to the chronology all records of Earth was lost perhaps even Zola included.

Now notice Zola's cultural development. The majority of Zolan's loosing their written and oral traditions suggests a catastrophy in their history that lead to a dark age.

That is why they were so enthusiastic in adopting human names and culture.

The likely scenario is that some Protoculture faction did not like the evolving species that mimic the Protoculture.

Foreseeing them as a danger like the Zentradi and Supervision Army an order was given to wipe out the miclone races. But this was stopped.

Thus the compromise. If these races were to become an interstellar threat they would be destroyed.

A Protoculture who became the legendary Rooy Waka was the one responsible to stop the slaughter.

Rooy Waka left behind the Fold Quartz earrings to the natives of Earth.

Similarly perhaps three eyed Zolan snakes (Which kinda remind me of Ai-kun) were left for the Zolans by the Protoculture.

Such a violent response to rising miclone races suggest a different faction of Protoculture.

The only one faction we did get answers was the Anima Spiritia that sealed the Protodevlin.

That was 500,000 years ago.

you have an entire series right there.

i like the concept of there being factions within the PC. one determined to wipe out the humans that they created, and the other wanting to keep humans alive. In order to stop the doomsday scenario, someone separated the birdman's head from its body. hence "it cut off its own head".

EDIT: i'd like to think the PC altered the dna of all of humanity. the mayans might just have been the first offspring, hence their blood remains relatively undiluted and closest to birdman blood.

Edited September 16, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[RedWolf]

Ok I'm thinking the way Grace always says lately that they will surpass the Protoculture suggests she knows something about the Vajra that is related to particular faction of the Protoculture.

With the revelation that Sheryl is Mao Nome's granddaughter.

[Duke Togo]

With 1 episode to go, I still have yet to see anything that says the Protoculture or the Birdman from Earth is related to anything we've see happen in Frontier. Doesn't mean something can't pop up in the last episode, but as of right now I just don't see it.

[The_WOZ]

Island 1 looks like a giant turtle shell...

[yaiba]

"She was clad in a tunic of satin, yarded with spangles of Egyptian gold, and on her head she had a silken kerchief, fringed with blue. She wore rings in her ears and bracelets on her wrists and rings on her fingers, with beazels of precious stones, and held in her hand a rod of Indian cane. She came up to the brazier and thrust the rod into the frying-pan saying 'O fish, are you constant to your covenant?' And when the cookmaid heard this she swooned away. Then the damsel repeated her question a second and a third time; and the fish lifted up their heads and cried out with one voice, 'Yes, yes:

Return, and we return: keep faith, and so will we: Or, if thou wilt, forsake, and we'll do like to thee!'

With this the damsel overturned the frying-pan and went out by the way she had come, and the wall closed up again as before. Presently the cookmaid came to herself and seeing the four fish burnt black as coal, said, 'My arms are broken in my first skirmish!' And fell down again in a swoon."

[Hiriyu]

With 1 episode to go, I still have yet to see anything that says the Protoculture or the Birdman from Earth is related to anything we've see happen in Frontier. Doesn't mean something can't pop up in the last episode, but as of right now I just don't see it.

I'd beg to differ, in that we have a main character who is a direct descendant of Mao Nome, who herself had a blood transfusion direct from the Birdman. There must be a reason for the inclusion of that lineage. I'll be surprised if something doesn't pop up in the next episode.

[Duke Togo]

I'd beg to differ, in that we have a main character who is a direct descendant of Mao Nome, who herself had a blood transfusion direct from the Birdman. There must be a reason for the inclusion of that lineage.

I think, like alot of the plot theories posted over the past several months, you are looking a little too much into things for something that isn't there. As I said, I could be totally wrong, but I think its no more of a device to tie the past to the present. I wouldn't be surprised if there was more of a connection, but I'm just not seeing it in what they've shown us so far.

Edited September 20, 2008 by Duke Togo

[RedWolf]

I'd beg to differ, in that we have a main character who is a direct descendant of Mao Nome, who herself had a blood transfusion direct from the Birdman. There must be a reason for the inclusion of that lineage. I'll be surprised if something doesn't pop up in the next episode.

That includes the posibility that Ranka is another granddaughter of Mao. Bilrer being the Grandfather. He does seem to want to meet somebody.

Anyhow Dr. Hasford believed that humanity must be destroyed so that new human species would emerge.

Where he got that idea we don't know. We know that the Protoculture Schism war was heating up and a survey ship was sent to ready worlds like Earth and Zola for colonization, creating sub-Protoculture races.

It was destroyed by those opposing the Stellar Republic. All records about Earth was lost with the ship around 500,000 years ago.

Around 10,000 years ago the Birdman made contact or created with the Mayan people. Brought with it likely the Vajra fold quartz.

Notice in the one of the prologues that fold dislocations and energy requirements were the limit of Protoculture fold technology.

If we base it on the Zentradi and Supervision Army technologies that date back 500,000 years.

For the Birdman to come here on Earth 10,000 years ago would mean that the Protoculture was not as extinct as we thought they would be.

Something just occured to me though. Bodolzaa said that if they come into contact with the Protoculture they would be destroyed.

Ranka in last episode sung like a sophisticated form of Minmay Attack with the Vajra. Is this what Bodolzaa meant?

We know that the current humans are different enough from the Protoculture. For example even if the faction that had Anima Spiritia did not convert the Protodevlin like Basara did. Merely sealing them on Varuta.

[Duke Togo]

That includes the posibility that Ranka is another granddaughter of Mao. Bilrer being the Grandfather.

That is just crazy talk, son.

[Hiriyu]

I think, like alot of the plot theories posted over the past several months, you are looking a little too much into things for something that isn't there. As I said, I could be totally wrong, but I think its no more of a device to tie the past to the present. I wouldn't be surprised if there was more of a connection, but I'm just not seeing it in what they've shown us so far.

You very well may be right, and there's no doubt we do have a tendency to look deeper into this silly stuff than we need to. I've tried to keep my own speculations about Frontier to a minimum, so this is kind of my one heroic stab at it

Next week's episode will tell us for sure.

[DeeBot]

That is just crazy talk, son.

The math works out, at least. Mao + Bilrer = 1/2 Zentran daughter/son. Marries non-Zentran, has Ranka = 1/4 Zentran.

[Isamu Starkiller]

Well we'll find out in 4 days. I'm in the camp that wants to see a direct connection to M0 but I've enjoyed this series so much I won't be disapointed if there isn't.