Macross Frontier Episode 23 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Keith]

...Crunchyroll is listing Frontier as licensed. Did I miss some news???

[Sulendil Ang]

Like I said in News thread, I have no idea at all, since not websites except the one you mentioned says anything about the license of Macross Frontier.

[VitoP]

Maybe they just got a notice to take it down.

[Final Vegeta]

Thinking back, Alto started to like Sheryl in ep. 5, while he enlisted in SMS in episode 4, so at the time he actually did it to protect Ranka. This is no declaration of shipping, though

FV

[junior]

I've got a question, being serious for a moment; Could somebody explain to me exactly WHAT SHERYL SEES IN ALTO? I mean with Ranka, I can see that it could just be a crush( given her age) but why is Sheryl going after him? What does Alto offer Sheryl that somebody else could not?

Go rewatch episode 5.

She says quite clearly in that episode why she likes him.

Also keep in mind that Alto might have been willing to pay more attention to Sheryl earlier on if she didn't pull stunts like the one in episode 10. If a girl you know suddenly plays tonsil hockey with you, and then shouts, "JUST KIDDING!" when you look at her with a stunned expression on your face because you think she likes you, then you can be forgiven in the future if you're skeptical about her future attempts to flirt with you. Alto doesn't like to look foolish. Sheryl made him look foolish back in episode 10. So he decides to avoid that in the future by treating Sheryl as a friend and nothing more.

Unfortunately, Sheryl doesn't like to look foolish either...

The fact that there's no relationship between the two characters until episode 22 is just as much Sheryl's fault as it is Alto's. Both have the same personality flaw that keeps each of them from clearly and unequivocably signaling their interest when it's just the two of them alone with each other.

[Nexx Stalker]

After the last episodes, I think Macross Galaxy is a victim of Grace's collective AI just as much as Frontier. I believe the distress call back in ep.5 was genuine and that they were swarmed by Vajra. Grace (and her entourage) is just a rogue member of that fleet. My two cents. Remember that Brera follows her orders only under compulsion. maybe the other VF27 pilots are other brainwashed cyborgs.

[Final Vegeta]

Go rewatch episode 5.

She says quite clearly in that episode why she likes him.

Something that in my book is important but is not mentioned much here is that Alto brought back her earring. You can be as playful as you want (Alto wasn't ), but after that it will come a time when you have to demonstrate you are actually reliable, and Alto did it.

FV

[VF-25 Messiah]

Those of you who watch subs, can rejoice that GG's out, apparently

[Marlovian]

"Hi, my name is Aerocombatpilot, and I am a Minmay fan." I can honestly say I was not one when Robotech first aired. I could remember wondering why Rick(Hikaru) kept running behind her, especially when Lisa (Misa) became intrested in Him. It was only when I saw DYRL that I changed my mind (as a matter of fact) I even wanted Minmay to win Hikaru in the movie. When I saw an older, more mature Minmay in Flashback 2012, I was her fan whole-heartedly and still am. I think that's the reason I like Ranka so much and dislike Sheryl, because Ranka reminds me of Minmay and Sheryl is just the opposite. Maybe that's the reason why Sheryl is so popular and Ranka is so hated, because when you look at her nothing reminds you of Minmay; which (at least it seems this way to me) for most Macross fans is a good thing.

So Ranka don't be depressed, your in good company.

Coming out of lurkdom to support my fellow Minmay fans. I too saw Robotech first, and while I liked Minmay initially, as the series progressed they seemed to ruin her more and more. I didn't hate her by the end, but I was tired of her baby voiced whining. DYRL was a breath of fresh air for me as a Minmay fan. I cried for her when Misa walked into Hikaru's cabin, and they "confronted" her with their love. And seeing her sit on the park bench while the SDF shook from the aftershocks of the battle just completely broke my heart. I loved that she had the courage and dignity to take her heartbreak and put it into a song that saved the world, and made her a legend in the Macross universe. BTW, that song is still my number 1 anime song.

I have since seen the Macross series, and continue to love Minmay. It does make me sad that she didn't get the guy, but it makes her a much more compelling heroine for it. AND, out of all the characters from that series, it is Minmay who is always evoked in later ones. She may have lost the guy but she's the one that history seems to remember most!!

IA, that Ranka is in the best of company

M

[Strumvogel]

Does this mean that from now on we will have 2 main factions fighting each other...?

a) Macross Frontier Fleet

vs

b) Vajra + Macross Galaxy

Actually it's potentially much more messier than that. Add in Macross "Arrr, we be pirates!" Quarter into that mix and you have a really convoluted battlefield.

And is Leon really thinking of dragging the entire civilian colony cluster into battle as well? That's not only insane I can't see many within the NUNs itself would agree to that. It'll probably ignite open revolt.

[Kronnang Dunn]

After the last episodes, I think Macross Galaxy is a victim of Grace's collective AI just as much as Frontier. I believe the distress call back in ep.5 was genuine and that they were swarmed by Vajra. Grace (and her entourage) is just a rogue member of that fleet. My two cents. Remember that Brera follows her orders only under compulsion. maybe the other VF27 pilots are other brainwashed cyborgs.

It was already announced in the news thread that the October issue of NT had the identity of Galaxy anonymous...

They are the executive staff of Galaxy fleet. They are even more evil than Grace because while O'Connor is crazy, these Galaxy power mongers are willing to sacrifice the Frontier fleet for their selfish goals

(Kawamori's own words). No rogues members of Galaxy at all...

I believe they already achieved their main objective by episode's end (control of the Vajra)...

[shinkirou]

need more seeds!!! nyahahaha!!! XD download gg's subbed version XD

[s-girl]

It was already announced in the news thread that the October issue of NT had the identity of Galaxy anonymous...

They are the executive staff of Galaxy fleet. They are even more evil than Grace because while O'Connor is crazy, these Galaxy power mongers are willing to sacrifice the Frontier fleet for their selfish goals

(Kawamori's own words). No rogues members of Galaxy at all...

That explains who is folding in in the Lion OP opening, then.

BTW, I was wrong on what the sillyi hairclip was for Brera. I thought it was a piece of foldquartz for communications, but it looks like it was part of the massive "reset" for Brera :-/

Off to d/l the gg sub and see if I can make my new machine play it D:

Edited September 13, 2008 by s-girl

[Kronnang Dunn]

BTW, I was wrong on what the sillyi hairclip was for Brera. I thought it was a piece of foldquartz for communications, but it looks like it was part of the massive "reset" for Brera :-/

Actually you could very well be right... Galaxy technology seems to be based on the use of fold quartz a lot... The VF-27 BFG has many on its barrel... Grace has some on her implant controls... (necklace).

[Strumvogel]

It was already announced in the news thread that the October issue of NT had the identity of Galaxy anonymous...

They are the executive staff of Galaxy fleet. They are even more evil than Grace because while O'Connor is crazy, these Galaxy power mongers are willing to sacrifice the Frontier fleet for their selfish goals

(Kawamori's own words). No rogues members of Galaxy at all...

I believe they already achieved their main objective by episode's end (control of the Vajra)...

Wait, you mean control of the Varja by the end of this episode? Doesn't look it.

If you mean by the end of the last episode of the series, then I see either a second season, OVA or movie coming up.

[shinkirou]

Actually you could very well be right... Galaxy technology seems to be based on the use of fold quartz a lot... The VF-27 BFG has many on its barrel... Grace has some on her implant controls... (necklace).

hmmmm this led me to that scene in ep 15 when grace was being revived (memory information defolding from somewhere) XD

[DeeBot]

Yay, subs!

A lot of things make more sense... but to my surprise, a lot of things make less sense, too.

First off, the overarching plot: I agree with the theory that Grace's faction used Ranka to penetrate the Vajra fold network. It definitely seems like Grace is merging with the Vajra consciousness, whether by choice or not. This also might point out the interpretation of that mysterious comment concerning something the Protoculture hadn't achieved: Transcendence of physical form. Assuming the Protoculture is really gone, of course...

It seems like fold quartz isn't something only the Vajra can produce, but since the Vajra are like bees, it's easier to go collect it from them rather than doing it ourselves. Man-made fold quartz will probably be possible, following the series.

Interesting about the description of the Vajra fold network as resulting from a kind of intestinal bacteria. This might have just been a metaphor: Comparing the V-type virus to symbiotic intestinal bacteria, rather than really meaning to classify them as bacteria. But maybe they just didn't do the research. (Or just really liked the line about the Vajra thinking with their gut.)

Incidentally, I have to concede that this episode seems to make it more likely that Sheryl will probably live. Darn. I'm predicting a song battle, with Sheryl on the Frontier trying to defeat Ranka (at least at first). I think she'll have grown stronger, but she can't beat Ranka. At that point, she'll probably become linked with Ranka, and they'll have enough strength together to overcome all the fighting factions. At which point, perhaps the viruses invading Sheryl's brain will retreat of their own accord; this episode seems to imply that there's some level of purposeful control (Ranka's still alive, after all), that they don't just blindly invade everything, but head for the brain to kill it.

Alternately, Sheryl may push herself too far in episode 24 (the bit about not taking her medicine so she can be stronger might foreshadow that she overdoes it), and won't be able to participate in the final battle after all. In which case, I figure she probably will die. Someone else will need to take her place... that would be kinda a lame ending, though.

The Vajra are possibly some sort of immune system for the fold consciousness, a mechanism to protect it from people like Grace who seek to exploit it.

Grace says something about the Vajra noticing them; I wonder if she was just referring to the CF-27s, and she somehow sabotaged the meeting between Ranka and the Vajra by her very own hostile presence? Combined with the idea that the Frontier fleet were drawn into the conflict by Grace & company, it seems like they have some sort of irritant that provokes a hostile reaction from the Vajra. (Perhaps their own fold net?)

I'll close out with some shipping speculation. With the subs, the episode seem to hint pretty strongly that whatever romantic relationship Sheryl and Alto have right now isn't real. It might just be a smokescreen (the timing of when Sheryl drops in on the conversation with Klan might hint at that), but taken at face value, it seems to imply that Alto is acting out the role of being with Sheryl because it's what's needed from him, and that Sheryl knows this, yet can't help herself from taking advantage of him, because she really does need him right now. In which case, it seems like Sheryl's love is ultimately the unrequited kind after all...

Thinking back on the series as a whole, Alto always seems to maintain more of an emotional distance with Sheryl, too. With Ranka, he seems more comfortable with himself, but with Sheryl, he's always resisting her advances (out of a sense of self-preservation at times, if nothing else). In this episode in particular, I never really got the vibe that he was in love with Sheryl, but that he was doing his duty, going through the motions. It seemed kinda joyless and one-sided; more dinner with a good friend going through a bought of sickness, than with a lover. That bodes ill for an Alto x Sheryl outcome.

The writers seem to be going to some effort to try and explain some of the characters' inconsistencies, too. Alto apparently comments that Sheryl acting like a spoiled child isn't really in character for her (at least, not at this point in the story), especially considering that she isn't actually drunk. (That was a surprise for me! I can see why Alto wouldn't want to get Sheryl drunk, though. It's not gentlemanly, and he has a hard enough time fending her off as it is.)

Could it be a side effect of the medicine she's taking? He looks at the medicine bottle right after, but I have a hard time interpreting what he means here. The scene with Luca is also a bit ambiguous for me; I'm not sure if she hasn't been taking it ever since Grace cut her off, or if she's been taking it on a trial basis again, then stops when she realizes it's diminishing her usefulness as a fold wave modulator.

Maybe it's not the medicine, but rather she's just trying too hard to preserve the illusion of a real relationship, because she acts quite seriously when Alto's not around. We flashed back to her childhood, and it seems the sort of relationship she has with Alto, illusionary though it might be, is a childhood fantasy of hers. As a consequence, she regresses to a child-like stage when she's trying to fulfill that fantasy.

The idea that Alto acts as the situation requires would also explain some of his impenetrability as a character. He's not just a fictional character, he's a fictional character playing fictional characters. We never see the real Alto because he's constantly hiding it behind the various Altos that duty demands of him. For all his impulsiveness, maybe Alto never really does what he truly wants. That might be why people keep asking him what his reasons are, because his reasons aren't true to himself.

Edited September 13, 2008 by DeeBot

[Wes]

gg is out.

[Nexx Stalker]

Now that the subs are out, we know that Ranka's intentions were to stop the war and not oly go after her lost memories. That, however, doesn't change the fact that she has little to no brain. The whole sequence when she opens the canopy in outher space to go hug Ai is simply dishearthening. I actually hope Alto kills her before realizing she is the key to Frontier's salvation ("Nooo, Ranka, what have I done! They turned me aginst you, but now I see the truth... die, Leon!"). Remember, Alto: you can repent AFTER you have blown her to smithereens. Ozma will avenge her, don't worry.

[Shun]

Actually you could very well be right... Galaxy technology seems to be based on the use of fold quartz a lot... The VF-27 BFG has many on its barrel... Grace has some on her implant controls... (necklace).

yup, the purple crystal on the hairpin could be the important component for the fold communications linkup to G.A. and will be just as important for relaying of information/commands when they have Brera in "SLAVE" mode...

As for the end of ep 23, the way i see it is something like there are 2 independent networks - Grace's Galaxy network and Vajra's fold network. For Grace to link to Vajra's network, they need a gateway and that gateway is Ranka. However, i dont understand how G.A. could have access or control over Ranka unless they already surgically did something to her.

Also, G.A. has just managed to see the gateway into Vajra's network, I don't know why they are convinced they can take control of the Vajra just by linking up with the network. who knows there might be defenses within the network to prevent break-ins (like your anti-virus s/w), and if the Vajra are made by the PCs, I would expect such defenses especially when they know very well that the Vajra comm network is crucial to the whole species. However, if the show is to end in 2 eps, i guess they will probably not get into such complexities...

[DeeBot]

As for the end of ep 23, the way i see it is something like there are 2 independent networks - Grace's Galaxy network and Vajra's fold network. For Grace to link to Vajra's network, they need a gateway and that gateway is Ranka. However, i dont understand how G.A. could have access or control over Ranka unless they already surgically did something to her.

I think it's just that she's human. The Vajra are an alien intelligence, hard to fathom. Leon speculates that the Vajra chose her as a bridge with humanity, and while he's an unreliable source that casts this in the most negative possible light, there may be some truth to this. Grace's faction exploits this in the opposite direction; once Ranka is linked in and begins remembering things, her faction can follow that signal back into the Vajra network.

Edited September 13, 2008 by DeeBot

[aerocombatpilot]

I actually hope Alto kills her before realizing she is the key to Frontier's salvation ("Nooo, Ranka, what have I done! They turned me aginst you, but now I see the truth... die, Leon!"). Remember, Alto: you can repent AFTER you have blown her to smithereens. Ozma will avenge her, don't worry.

You are soooo cold!!!!!

[Radd]

Now that the subs are out, we know that Ranka's intentions were to stop the war and not oly go after her lost memories.

Er...that's not a new revelation. That was pretty clear when she left, and had been shown to be the direction she was going long before she left.

[Strumvogel]

I come to realise that Leon's plan is destined to failure due to the fact that the Varja already knows about the Dimension bombs when they used it in ep.21. Damn Frontier is so screwed.

[Gubaba]

Er...that's not a new revelation. That was pretty clear when she left, and had been shown to be the direction she was going long before she left.

Agreed. It seems to me that only those who wanted to create new reasons for why Ranka is supremely awful thought that she was being selfish by leaving.

[Shun]

I think it's just that she's human. The Vajra are an alien intelligence, hard to fathom. Leon speculates that the Vajra chose her as a bridge with humanity, and while he's an unreliable source that casts this in the most negative possible light, there may be some truth to this. Grace's faction exploits this in the opposite direction; once Ranka is linked in and begins remembering things, her faction can follow that signal back into the Vajra network.

yup, Ranka understands Vajra - feels their pain etc etc... G.A. are possibly using Ranka's understanding of the Vajra as the doorway to get inside/decode the vajra.

What Leon told Alto is correct up to the point that the Vajra wants to massacre mankind. We already know in the previous kidnap episode that the Vajra wants to make use of Ranka to understand and communicate with mankind, not to make war.

Which brings us back to the point - what are the vajra and who created them? Possibly the PC right? Created as guardians to police the galaxy/ protect the PC? Doesn't seem very effective if the guards decided to negotiate with a third party instead of fighting them That is, unless they were not made to fight off threats in the first place, or perhaps the vajra are what remains of the PCs ?!? hope that the questions will be answered by the series' end, and not left open-ended...

Edited September 13, 2008 by Shun

[DeeBot]

What Leon told Alto is correct up to the point that the Vajra wants to massacre mankind. We already know in the previous kidnap episode that the Vajra wants to make use of Ranka to understand and communicate with mankind, not to make war.

Or maybe... maybe that's just what we're supposed to think! And the Vajra really are ruthless killers! My goodness, Alto is on the right side! Everyone else is doomed!

[Shun]

Or maybe... maybe that's just what we're supposed to think! And the Vajra really are ruthless killers! My goodness, Alto is on the right side! Everyone else is doomed!

that would be a nice twist

[Nexx Stalker]

Agreed. It seems to me that only those who wanted to create new reasons for why Ranka is supremely awful thought that she was being selfish by leaving.

Well, you must admit that it's difficult to have faith in the actions of someone whose vocabulary is limited to "I'm sorry", "Alto-kun" (various tones), "Ai-kun!" and "Brera-san..."

[s-girl]

I think the first fansub hasn't really changed my perception that the dialogue can be interpreted in many different contexts.

I actually think that digging deeper, Alto realizes that all of the motives he's mentioned were shaped by the circumstances thanks to the words of his brother. I think the only thing I walked away from the GG sub is that Alto wants to protect Frontier. (And I think the triangle, honestly, has nothing to do with it anymore, shippers. To give Alto that "small" of a purpose really diminishes the thoughtfulness of Alto.)

My feeling is that the most likely to die atm is Alto. Or everyone. XD

Edited September 13, 2008 by s-girl

[aerocombatpilot]

Agreed. It seems to me that only those who wanted to create new reasons for why Ranka is supremely awful thought that she was being selfish by leaving.

They were just a bunch of Ranka haters/ Sheryl supporters!!!

[shinkirou]

I believe this scene in episode 24 will put the period in the triangle.

just you wait... Sheryl will win hehe XD *hopes high*

the magnificent vf-27 XD

*hopes high for a new song from May'n next episode* ^____^

[UN Spacy]

Interesting title description by the folks at GG.

Anyone else expecting to get trolled at the end of this series?

[Gubaba]

Well, you must admit that it's difficult to have faith in the actions of someone whose vocabulary is limited to "I'm sorry", "Alto-kun" (various tones), "Ai-kun!" and "Brera-san..."

*sigh*

[Major Focker]

I believe this scene in episode 24 will put the period in the triangle.

just you wait... Sheryl will win hehe XD *hopes high*

could still go either way. that pic is probably sheryl releasing alto from his "duty" (to stay by her side). the triangle might not be resolved until the very last episode, and it might be too late for alto..

it seems increasingly likely that sheryl will push herself to the limit, with potentially tragic consequences.