Macross Frontier Episode 23 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[shinkirou]

what an imaginative bunch you are XD

[anime52k8]

I say put Alto back on his Kabuki makeup and make him sing Enka on Battle Frontier bridge during the last battle and let Sheryl fly his VF-171EX, I bet that would cause more damage than Dimensional Eater.

have her fly his VF-25F, and it'll be the best episode ever. anything else they do after that I'll be fine with.

[dreamweaver13]

I LOVE MY MACROSS!!

- did they really have to wait for the 3rd to the last episode for the Hikaru-Max-Kakizaki nod? haha. man, the way they were chatting with each other while on duty was hilarious ("sh-she-sheryl-saaannn"). i'm nostalgic all of a sudden.

- oh sheryl is so moe when drunk. that part where she holds out her arms to alto, asking to be carried, is priceless.

- waitaminute, with the little japanese i caught in the final conversation, i don't think there was anything definite. in fact, it was all vague to me. touching scene, but vague nonetheless. the only thing that's definite is that alto will kill ranka if she's a threat to frontier. i'll stop at that for now. We'll all figure it out (hopefully) with the next 2 episodes. and of course, i'll withhold further comment until i watch a sub version.

- leave it to macross to give me an emotional roller coaster all throughout this episode. laughter (vermillion team lives again!), moe (sheryl's drunk! tee hee), suspense (frack, brera's gonna die, and it's all ranka's fault! and why are those vajra attacking?!), revelation (oh i just know there are PLENTY revalations in this episode, i just didn't catch them all yet with the RAW), drama (alto, you're gonna kill ranka?? wow. harsh.) and finally, anticipation (all-out war!!!).

- wolfx, did i get you right? Grace's AI's is inside and all around the fold network? hehe, there you have it, it's Jane and the philotic network!

- oh man, this is shaping up to be a spectacular last 2 episodes. and the pacing is perfect so far, i'm quite confident it can be wrapped up properly by ep25.

oh can't wait for the subs. this one's dialogue heavy, and i need those subs to fully understand just what the frack is going on.

[Morpheus]

Some SDF:M homage on this episode:

- Sheryl living with Alto (in Ozma mansion?) - Minmay living with Hikaru.

- Alto with his CF squad chatting - Hikaru and his CF squad after the holocaust.

- The Kakizaki 'chat during squadron flight' curse

I don't remember exactly what are Sheryl serving for dinner, is Pineapple stuff included?

[Morpheus]

- wolfx, did i get you right? Grace's AI's is inside and all around the fold network? hehe, there you have it, it's Jane and the philotic network!

And Vajra Queen as the Hive Queen with their ability to communicate via fold network (ansible network in Ender case). Too bad the Dimension Eater is not as good as the Little Doctors.

[junior]

- Sheryl living with Alto (in Ozma mansion?) - Minmay living with Hikaru.

I wouldn't call it an homage. Sheryl doesn't have a place of her own (she's been basically freeloading off of Alto's brother and she's definitely got enough self-respect to not be happy with that sort of situation). And Alto would have had his own place to stay since he clearly isn't living with his own family anymore. This episode is probably the first time that we've seen where Alto lived, and I would imagine that he's been in this residence since he moved out of his father's house. I don't know if Sheryl's permanently camped out there, but with the way she passed out it would have been difficult (and rude) to send her somewhere else.

One brief scene in the episode got me thinking. During Alto's meal with Sheryl, there was a brief flashback to Sheryl's lonely orphan childhood. We saw her looking into a window high above her in which a couple was eating a nice meal at the dinner table. I get the feeling that when she saw that in her distant past, Sheryl decided that more than anything else, she wanted the two things that the scene to her would represent -

1.) A nice, warm, hot meal (and a good meal at a dinner table is its own reward), and

2.) Someone special to share it with

Over the years she's obviously had more than enough warm dinners, but I can all but guarantee that this is the first time that she's ever had a dinner with a "special someone". Back in episodes 5 and 6 she discussed her complete lack of friends. This episode pretty much hammered it home to me. She's been completely alone (Grace was an employee - albeit a pretended one - and therefore could not be considered a friend) for her entire remembered life. And now she's got Alto.

If SK takes Alto away from her, then SK will have a lot to answer for. He might as well kick a few puppies while he's at it...

What we learned that Sheryl could value back in episode 7 was her home - i.e. Galaxy. With no friends, Sheryl would logically value the one place where she felt somewhat grounded and secure, and that would be her home in Galaxy. Now Galaxy's lost and has been for quite some time. And she's found Alto, who is probably her first real friend. Taking Alto from her would be like stealing the crutch from a one-legged man.

[junior]

Which is a japanese style house and doesn't look anything like what we see here. Or did they ever show there was a western house connected to it somewhere?

Nah... You're overlooking the obvious...

i.e. WHICH Saotome's mansion?

We've never seen where Alto lives. He's got to live somewhere, after all.

[dreamweaver13]

If SK takes Alto away from her, then SK will have a lot to answer for. He might as well kick a few puppies while he's at it...

Oh man, that's a fantastic way of saying it! so right...

[Keith]

Only 2 episodes to tie this up...damn you Kawamori & your almost assured Kawamori ending!

[anime52k8]

Nah... You're overlooking the obvious...

i.e. WHICH Saotome's mansion?

We've never seen where Alto lives. He's got to live somewhere, after all.

I alway's just assumed he lived in a cardboard box somewere.

[shinkirou]

I agree with you junior... i couldn't agree more XD

let's just wait out the final two episodes before... whatever... haha XD

[dreamweaver13]

Some SDF:M homage on this episode:

- Sheryl living with Alto (in Ozma mansion?) - Minmay living with Hikaru.

- Alto with his CF squad chatting - Hikaru and his CF squad after the holocaust.

- The Kakizaki 'chat during squadron flight' curse

I don't remember exactly what are Sheryl serving for dinner, is Pineapple stuff included?

I don't know if it was intended, but the alto-sheryl scene did remind me of hikaru-minmay. In fact, when they focused on the single candle, i half-expected them to lean towards each other over that candle and whisper, "merry christmas".

but i dare say the squad-chatting was a deliberate nod. it's like saying "Ha! thought you weren't gonna see alto lead a goofy team, huh? gotcha again!"

and HEY, no more talk of pineaplle salad when sheryl's involved! that just makes me so saaaad.

[shinkirou]

lol at cardboard boxes XD hence, more pairing for AltoXSheryl

haha peace out! XD

[DeeBot]

- waitaminute, with the little japanese i caught in the final conversation, i don't think there was anything definite. in fact, it was all vague to me. touching scene, but vague nonetheless. the only thing that's definite is that alto will kill ranka if she's a threat to frontier. i'll stop at that for now. We'll all figure it out (hopefully) with the next 2 episodes. and of course, i'll withhold further comment until i watch a sub version.

I agree it's kinda vague, at least going by the translations that other people have posted. I've been pushing the "it's definitely Alto x Ranka!" angle mostly to tweak the Sheryl shippers.

Still, I think there may be something to it. Maybe Alto really has been in love with Ranka the whole time. The thing is, if Sheryl really "knew all along," well, maybe she's right. It could just be a set-up for a classic romantic misunderstanding--maybe Sheryl just has really low self-esteem right now, full of self-doubt--but we already got that with Ranka running in with Alto holding Sheryl.

Rather, it may well be Sheryl's generally-correct intuition kicking in, picking up on something in-universe that we outside observers didn't or couldn't. If Sheryl's known all along that Alto never could and never would truly love her, it would explain an awful lot. Like all her odd, vaguely jealous looks. She may never have truly been trying to win Alto's heart, she just wanted to borrow it for a little while.

[Valkyrie addict]

damn, seems like a great plot defining episode, need subs NOW

poor Sheryl, the girls has had it tough for almost half the show now, looks like she's gonna pull a Minmei next episode on Battle 25, sweet!

next episode looks siiiiiiiick!

[dreamweaver13]

And Vajra Queen as the Hive Queen with their ability to communicate via fold network (ansible network in Ender case). Too bad the Dimension Eater is not as good as the Little Doctors.

Too bad the "read ender much shoji?" thread is already far gone. would have loved to add this. the similarities are uncanny. if the interpretations i read in this thread are right...

MF: vajra created the fold neural network and the Grace AIs hijacked this network and used its for its own.

EG: bugs were the first to use the philotic network, humans used it to develop the ansible, and the ansible network became conscious and became Jane, an AI who lived inside the network.

and hey, the DE could still be as bad-a$s as the MD. it did take a big chunk out of galia IV. granted, it doesn't work with a "mass" multiplier, but the DE is close enough, i guess.

[dreamweaver13]

I agree it's kinda vague, at least going by the translations that other people have posted. I've been pushing the "it's definitely Alto x Ranka!" angle mostly to tweak the Sheryl shippers.

Still, I think there may be something to it. Maybe Alto really has been in love with Ranka the whole time. The thing is, if Sheryl really "knew all along," well, maybe she's right. It could just be a set-up for a classic romantic misunderstanding--maybe Sheryl just has really low self-esteem right now, full of self-doubt--but we already got that with Ranka running in with Alto holding Sheryl.

Rather, it may well be Sheryl's generally-correct intuition kicking in, picking up on something in-universe that we outside observers didn't or couldn't. If Sheryl's known all along that Alto never could and never would truly love her, it would explain an awful lot. Like all her odd, vaguely jealous looks. She may never have truly been trying to win Alto's heart, she just wanted to borrow it for a little while.

actually, if sheryl had self-doubt about alto's feelings for her, it's all the better coz i can see how it ends from an alto-sheryl perspective:

Ranka runs out the door, and alto starts to follow but pauses for dramatic effect.

Sheryl: go ahead, alto. you're finally reunited with Ranka. Follow her. i know i'm dying, I don't need your sympathy.

Alto: you're wrong! after i cooked you dinner and carried you to bed (by the way, you're getting heavy, you know that?), and then i saw ranka's picture in nanase's hospital room... i knew. the one who i want to stay by my side forever is....

oh you know the drill.

Edited September 12, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[Gubaba]

next episode looks siiiiiiiick!

Tell me about it...I've just seen it the once, and I didn't back up, but was that a lot of Dimension Eater detonations I saw all around the planet in the next ep preview...?

The Vajra swarm coming out to "greet" Ranka and Brera was awesome.

[Morpheus]

actually, if sheryl had self-doubt about alto's feelings for her, it's all the better coz i can see how it ends from an alto-sheryl perspective:

Ranka runs out the door, and alto starts to follow but pauses for dramatic effect.

Sheryl: go ahead, alto. you're finally reunited with Ranka. Follow her. i know i'm dying, I don't need your sympathy.

Alto: you're wrong! after i cooked you dinner and carried you to bed (by the way, you're getting heavy, you know that?), and then i saw ranka's picture in nanase's hospital room... i knew. the one who i want to stay by my side forever is....

oh you know the drill.

The answer is Nanase

[Gubaba]

The answer is Nanase

Now THAT would be an ending!

You know, I hate to say it, but the Sheryl and Ranka shippers have it easy...at least THEIR favorite character(s) have been active, running around, doing stuff, and thinking about things...mine's been stuck in a coma for the last three episodes, and we don't even know if she still has a right eye!

The rest of you want your favorite character to get the guy and save the ship...I just want mine to regain consciousness.

[VF-25 Messiah]

Nah... You're overlooking the obvious...

i.e. WHICH Saotome's mansion?

We've never seen where Alto lives. He's got to live somewhere, after all.

And it turned out to be... where Sheryl lives.

[dreamweaver13]

The Vajra swarm coming out to "greet" Ranka and Brera was awesome.

yeah, forgot to mention that. absolutely wicked!! got a macross plus feel when all the defense sattelites woke up when isamu was nearing earth.

The answer is Nanase

and cue everyone falling to the floor.

[dreamweaver13]

Now THAT would be an ending!

You know, I hate to say it, but the Sheryl and Ranka shippers have it easy...at least THEIR favorite character(s) have been active, running around, doing stuff, and thinking about things...mine's been stuck in a coma for the last three episodes, and we don't even know if she still has a right eye!

The rest of you want your favorite character to get the guy and save the ship...I just want mine to regain consciousness.

wow, i can actually feel the pain and hurt coming out of your post.

if only nanase knew how much you deeply care for her........ she'll still go with Ranka, of course, without giving you a second thought. but i'm sure you already knew that about her, didn't you?

[Gubaba]

wow, i can actually feel the pain and hurt coming out of your post.

if only nanase knew how much you deeply care for her........ she'll still go with Ranka, of course, without giving you a second thought. but i'm sure you already knew that about her, didn't you?

Of course I know...wild mares were meant to roam...and roam free...

Now, if you need me, I'll be sulking in my room, gazing out at the drizzly sky, with my hand nailed to my forehead...

[VF-25 Messiah]

Alto looks at the pills and say "Muri mo nai....ka" which means "impossible, huh". Interpret that how you will but i think it means the pills do nothing. It depicts that Sheryl still has the will to live despite her disease being on the terminal stage.

And just before that he was saying "Rashiku nai ze" in regards to Sheryl. "Muri mo nai ka" is more like "I guess its no surprise." I interpret it as either being, it's no surprise because of a) the disease in general. b) she's not taking the pills.

[wolfx]

I LOVE MY MACROSS!!

- did they really have to wait for the 3rd to the last episode for the Hikaru-Max-Kakizaki nod? haha. man, the way they were chatting with each other while on duty was hilarious ("sh-she-sheryl-saaannn"). i'm nostalgic all of a sudden.

- oh sheryl is so moe when drunk. that part where she holds out her arms to alto, asking to be carried, is priceless.

- waitaminute, with the little japanese i caught in the final conversation, i don't think there was anything definite. in fact, it was all vague to me. touching scene, but vague nonetheless. the only thing that's definite is that alto will kill ranka if she's a threat to frontier. i'll stop at that for now. We'll all figure it out (hopefully) with the next 2 episodes. and of course, i'll withhold further comment until i watch a sub version.

- leave it to macross to give me an emotional roller coaster all throughout this episode. laughter (vermillion team lives again!), moe (sheryl's drunk! tee hee), suspense (frack, brera's gonna die, and it's all ranka's fault! and why are those vajra attacking?!), revelation (oh i just know there are PLENTY revalations in this episode, i just didn't catch them all yet with the RAW), drama (alto, you're gonna kill ranka?? wow. harsh.) and finally, anticipation (all-out war!!!).

- wolfx, did i get you right? Grace's AI's is inside and all around the fold network? hehe, there you have it, it's Jane and the philotic network!

- oh man, this is shaping up to be a spectacular last 2 episodes. and the pacing is perfect so far, i'm quite confident it can be wrapped up properly by ep25.

oh can't wait for the subs. this one's dialogue heavy, and i need those subs to fully understand just what the frack is going on.

I loved the Kakizaki nod. I was like "OMG this guy is sooooo asking to die." Even Alto said its a jinx to talk about girls in the valkyrie. Then the guys go "WARRRGHHHHH!!!" I was like...yup...that guy had it coming but instead, i got rick rolled when his exclamation was actually for Sheryl waving. WTF....nice play, hory froating head. I swear that "WARRRGHHHH!!" was the probably same death scream as Kakizaki.

The discussion itself had nothing definate. Drew conclusion based on reactions by Klan, Sheryl, and paper plane.

Grace was researching the vajra neural network. It was my own theory that Grace and Co. were already in that network but probably not full control of it or something. It was just based on graphics of the neural net that looked similar to the one used when they were talking.

Too bad the "read ender much shoji?" thread is already far gone. would have loved to add this. the similarities are uncanny. if the interpretations i read in this thread are right...

MF: vajra created the fold neural network and the Grace AIs hijacked this network and used its for its own.

EG: bugs were the first to use the philotic network, humans used it to develop the ansible, and the ansible network became conscious and became Jane, an AI who lived inside the network.

and hey, the DE could still be as bad-a$s as the MD. it did take a big chunk out of galia IV. granted, it doesn't work with a "mass" multiplier, but the DE is close enough, i guess.

Hey, just bring it up and post it in the thread. Nothing wrong with that. Use the "search" button.

Good call on those of us who drew vajra's neural network with the philotic network in Ender. Now its just a matter of what Grace wanted to do with this network and how does "Cinderella's Horn" fit into that plan.

[dreamweaver13]

Nah... You're overlooking the obvious...

i.e. WHICH Saotome's mansion?

We've never seen where Alto lives. He's got to live somewhere, after all.

well, before he moved out, he obviously lived at the saotome mansion.

after he joined SMS, he lived at the barracks.

now that he's top NUNS honcho, i'm guessing he gets the same lofty accomodations as Ozma used to have (with sheryl, to boot!)

but the question remains: after saotome mansion and before SMS, where the hell did he stay?

the cardboard box theory seems to hold water.

[RedWolf]

well, before he moved out, he obviously lived at the saotome mansion.

after he joined SMS, he lived at the barracks.

now that he's top NUNS honcho, i'm guessing he gets the same lofty accomodations as Ozma used to have (with sheryl, to boot!)

but the question remains: after saotome mansion and before SMS, where the hell did he stay?

the cardboard box theory seems to hold water.

As someone said in Animesuki:

*Gasps* Is it...could it be...? Alto's long lost appartment!?

[dreamweaver13]

Hey, just bring it up and post it in the thread. Nothing wrong with that. Use the "search" button.

Good call on those of us who drew vajra's neural network with the philotic network in Ender. Now its just a matter of what Grace wanted to do with this network and how does "Cinderella's Horn" fit into that plan.

Hey, cool! i thought the thread died out since it was no longer in the 3 pages of the forum. didn't know you could "search" it back to life. thanks!

I loved the Kakizaki nod. I was like "OMG this guy is sooooo asking to die." Even Alto said its a jinx to talk about girls in the valkyrie. Then the guys go "WARRRGHHHHH!!!" I was like...yup...that guy had it coming but instead, i got rick rolled when his exclamation was actually for Sheryl waving. WTF....nice play, hory froating head. I swear that "WARRRGHHHH!!" was the probably same death scream as Kakizaki.

what exactly were they saying, by the way? i can catch that they were teasing alto about sheryl, but how are they teasing him? are they assuming they're a couple? in fact, do they know that the two are living together?

but even though i only caught the gist of their chat, i was laughing all the way. didn't even know that alto was making a reference to a "jinx" until someone here pointed it out. funny!

[junior]

what exactly were they saying, by the way? i can catch that they were teasing alto about sheryl, but how are they teasing him? are they assuming they're a couple? in fact, do they know that the two are living together?

but even though i only caught the gist of their chat, i was laughing all the way. didn't even know that alto was making a reference to a "jinx" until someone here pointed it out. funny!

I caught what sounded like the English word 'private' in there, so I'm guessing that they were teasing Alto to try and get juicy bits of information out of him, and he told them to lay off his private life. It fits with his character, imo.

Won't know for sure until the subs are out, though.

[dreamweaver13]

As someone said in Animesuki:

*Gasps* Is it...could it be...? Alto's long lost appartment!?

haha. pretty fancy apartment for a student who had been disinherited. but then again, that's alto for you. someone that pretty has to be in a fancy apartment.

[wolfx]

The decor was really ugly though especially the bed. Reminded me of a love hotel. XD

[junior]

haha. pretty fancy apartment for a student who had been disinherited. but then again, that's alto for you. someone that pretty has to be in a fancy apartment.

Alto's a disinherited student, but he's also a formerly successful child actor. He might have earned a lot of money on the stage before he walked out. Also, inheritence arrangements don't always send all of the money to the surviving spouse (particularly if the now dead spouse brought a lot of money into the marriage). It's possible that Alto's mother willed wealth of some sort to Alto when she died.

In other words, there are reasons that Alto might have access to a lot of wealth. The fact that we still don't know much about his background keeps us from knowing for sure whether any of those reasons apply.

[VF-25 Messiah]

I'm going to say again, that I think that's Sheryls apartment. She must have lived somewhere before the hospital, or when taken in the Saotome mansion... perhaps she aquired it after she started working for Leon even.

Why do I say its Sheryl's? Because Sheryl says "You mustn't go home!" when he's carrying her. Sure, it's not much to go by perhaps, Sheryl might have been confused as to where she was at the moment, but what indication is it that it was Alto's?

[yaiba]

So Alto joins NUNS now with their new VF-171EX toys, but he still wear SMS uniform. Also did I hear Leon ordering Frontier to do emergency fold jump to the Vajra homeworld? Very suicidal, I mean he taking the entire Frontier Island cluster with it, did he plan to conquer the planet and colonize it? Whoever win the battle, Frontier is doomed.

The scenes of the Frontier civilians wearing gasmasks as Leon gave his speech was reminiscent of pictures of Japanese civilians as they prepared for the invasion of Japan, and Alto's attitude in saying he would kill Ranka sounds like gyokusai to me. Leon will sacrifice everything to achieve his goal (whatever it is). Ichioku gyokusai!