Macross Frontier Episode 23 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[RedWolf]

Ok, i finally saw the subs for this episode (wow, everything makes sense now! it makes sense that everything is so vague! i honestly don't know where this is headed anymore. (good thing i stopped speculating a while back).

nevertheless some obsevations. so clearly sheryl feels that alto is just showing her some sympathy. ""Being kind is a sin. Even if i know it's condescending sympathy, i'll want to take advantage."

On the other hand, Alto kind of admits that he joined the SMS/army to protect one girl - Ranka. and that everyhting he's done is for that girl. never the less, when push comes to shove, and give3n a choice between ranka and his duty to protect humanity... he chose humanity.

sounds familiar. ahem. misa. ahem. hikaru.

see? i told you i quit speculating a long time ago.

More like Minmay.

In episode 28 Hikaru had an imaginary conversation with a very dead Roy. Roy asking where Minmay is now.

Isn't she the reason why Hikaru joined the military. To protect her. Hikaru answers he doesn't know where she is now.

Imaginary Roy says What you have another woman now?

Does this sound familiar? Good thing Alto doesn't have an imaginary Mikhail or even Raramia in his head. (Raramia would do anyway.)

Edited September 17, 2008 by RedWolf

[yaiba]

Yes, but the biological science that is the basis of the Vajra 'infectoin' is patterned after current molecular biology and virology. A lot of what is shown "medically" is also comparable with current tech, unlike the tech stuff dealing with the mechs.

It's oddly convenient to put medical science so far behind when they clearly have microscopic technology. Using current methods that are being used for immunologic therapy though may be "too boring" for the writers. I dunno though, since I'm kind of like "oh, this problem is kind of easy to solve if Frontier has a minimum of year 2008 biological techniques at hand."

I need the other docs to back me up here, but the link above is real life science being done this year. It is not inconceivable that real life science can be applied years in the future, unless Frontier has no biologists sitting around.

The technology behind the science described is at least 15 years old, if not older. I'm more familiar with the applications related to cancer, but infectious disease applications are a no-brainer.

I'm guessing Frontier's biological research funding is much, much smaller than military research funding resulting in the gap between the two technologies.

My question though is when Ranka was examined in the earlier episodes, didn't they say she was clear of viral exposure? Circulating antibodies would have been a clear sign of exposure.

Edited September 17, 2008 by yaiba

[Final Vegeta]

Hm. Gut flora. That means that Ranka is pooping out viruses like crazy?

The gut flora is made of bacteria. Which would be found in every kind of feces anyway.

They do look like bacteriophages (viruses), but they are always described as bacteria. It makes more sense this way. In our guts there are ten times more bacteria than human cells. Although they are no necessary for our life, they help in a symbiotic relationship. These bacteria are likely to break down what Vajra eat and help in transforming it into fold quartz.

Well, the overly technical explanations into the biological mechanism for Ranka's abilities means really only one thing. Since Ranka was infected in utero, she has antibodies.

Not necessarily. It seems that somehow in Ranka this bacterium is harmless by its own choice. If there were antibodies Ranka would not have her power.

FV

Edited September 17, 2008 by Final Vegeta

[DarkReaper]

So they harvest the raw fold quartz from dead stars, asteroids or whatever and then refine them in their stomach to pure fold quartz, just like we refine stuff to Vitamins...?

[Final Vegeta]

So they harvest the raw fold quartz from dead stars, asteroids or whatever and then refine them in their stomach to pure fold quartz, just like we refine stuff to Vitamins...?

It seems to be something like that. It reminds me of drag energist in Escaflowne

FV

[daflip702]

sadly, there is NO channel which offers anime in subbed form. hence, i don't really watch any of these channels, and rely on subs downloads and bootlegs.

I know this is a little of topic but, I watch Subbed anime on websites that post via Veoh,Mega.

Here's some that do.....and are really cool because they got alot of different anime to chose from...Macross being one ot them.

While bootlegs are cool and all....But I rather Buy the DVD bundle(when it comes out). C'mon people, support the Macross fandom.

Back on topic......Paper Kites aren't just made from paper you know.....Deebot. A brick house ain't made entirely of bricks. If you felt offended...I don't know what to say....paper airplanes are easy...kids make them all the time.

So vajra are like bees then......?

[cyde01]

Though generally in these sorts of things, the series takes precedent .

what he said.

[Gin]

So they harvest the raw fold quartz from dead stars, asteroids or whatever and then refine them in their stomach to pure fold quartz, just like we refine stuff to Vitamins...?

Now I will never look at flintstones vitamins the same again.

[Duke Togo]

So they harvest the raw fold quartz from dead stars, asteroids or whatever and then refine them in their stomach to pure fold quartz, just like we refine stuff to Vitamins...?

The Vajra remind me of bees, except instead of producing honey they produce fold quartz.

[sketchley]

Duke, I think that was the metaphor that they were striving for in this episode. That, and the hive-like, every one has a specialized role, nature of the Vajra.

[VF-25 Messiah]

Duke, I think that was the metaphor that they were striving for in this episode. That, and the hive-like, every one has a specialized role, nature of the Vajra.

They even showed us a picture from a beehive

[dreamweaver13]

More like Minmay.

In episode 28 Hikaru had an imaginary conversation with a very dead Roy. Roy asking where Minmay is now.

Isn't she the reason why Hikaru joined the military. To protect her. Hikaru answers he doesn't know where she is now.

Imaginary Roy says What you have another woman now?

Does this sound familiar? Good thing Alto doesn't have an imaginary Mikhail or even Raramia in his head. (Raramia would do anyway.)

yeah, that's what i said.

alto joined the SMS to protect ranka. hikaru joined the military to protect minmay.

my "ahem.misa" was in reference to sheryl thinking/knowing (take your pick) that alto is merely feeling sorry for her, much the same way misa felt in DYRL when she saw hikaru about to follow minmay out the door.

you mentioned that Roy flashback. good catch. isn't that exactly what Klan did? klan basically acted the Roy part, making alto think of his reason for joining the SMS, and to decide once and for all what he wants to do from now on.

in that regard, klan is more effective. alto will act on klan's question in the next 2 episodes, whereas it took Hikaru 8 more episodes from the time Roy talked to him before he made his choice.

Edited September 17, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[s-girl]

That's probably the reason. BTW are you a doc? That's why you know about this stuff?

Was pre-med with a bioengineering/molecular cell background, but that's old stuff now because I don't keep up as much with cellular membrane stuff hence my fumbling around on the discussion on v-type. And VF-25S is right . I ditched the straight bio stuff for other related stuff

probably not about lower oxygen concentration per se, but more about a general decline in air density (like how air is thinner at high altitudes hence requiring either larger wing surfaces or travelling faster to generate enough lift). paper planes will fly in any appropriate combination of gravity and air/gas density regardless of the elemental composition of the air/gas. in this case, physics governs flight, not chemistry, unlike in lighter-than-air flight (eg. balloons).

but all in all, i'd still say it's down to bad paper and lousy origami.

I am not too familiar with atmospheric chemistry, so I wasn't sure if the lowering O2 meant that other gases were being raised in relative percentage, hence affecting density, and thus changing the lift/drag.

The technology behind the science described is at least 15 years old, if not older. I'm more familiar with the applications related to cancer, but infectious disease applications are a no-brainer.

I'm guessing Frontier's biological research funding is much, much smaller than military research funding resulting in the gap between the two technologies.

My question though is when Ranka was examined in the earlier episodes, didn't they say she was clear of viral exposure? Circulating antibodies would have been a clear sign of exposure.

Yeah - and I realize we don't have to hold the writers to be literal, but it's funny how they give us what I call copies of scanning electronic microscope "germs" (according to the latest translations) and then don't go that extra mile. It kind of is funny considering that for all other purposes we see that Frontier is still more advanced than 2008 tech.

If the antibodies are for a placental exposure, they could be circulating but in such minute quantities to be nearly indetectable. You woul dhave to have the right assay and antigens to pick them up (and only after either amplifying them likely). However, the super great thing is that if the antibodies exist in Ranka's immunologic memory, you might find greater quantities circulating in her now with continued exposure to Ai or even other cell-mediated helpers wandering about. The news article I linked also mentioned a cellular mechanism to concentrate those antibodies should they exist.

@Final Vegeta

Maybe this is the clunkiness of the translation, but I've seen "virus", "bacteria" and "germ" used interchangeably. When v-type infection was described earlier on, it appeared to be viral, specifically by a phage.

However, your explanation of the 'whatsit" kind of is interesting as it works sort of with Leon's explanation to Alto. However, I'm not sure I buy the "intentional symbiosis" bit as it lends itself to his Leon's other statement that Ranka "chose" symbiosis (therefore she's somehow to be blamed), but who knows? Leon's explanation could be wrong, misleading, or just goofy :-/

Whatever it is though in her gut, when gut flora get out of your gut, they can cause sepsis and other nasty immunologic problems in your blood stream. Still think taking her bacteria (via poop) is a fun idea and within the scope of possible medical tech on Frontier

But enough of poop and germs XD

Some other things that still amuse me about reaction to this episode.

The lack of "surprise" on our part about Brera. Was there anyone left in this fandom that didn't see that coming?

Edited September 17, 2008 by s-girl

[dreamweaver13]

Some other things that still amuse me about reaction to this episode.

The lack of "surprise" on our part about Brera. Was there anyone left in this fandom that didn't see that coming?

about brera being ranka's brother? certainly no Darth Vader revelation there.

i think even those who don't frequent MW, even non-macross fans, even non-anime fans saw that coming a mile away. ranka and brera are the only idiots not to figure it out. i mean, just from the time ranka heard him playing aimo on his harmonica should have given her reason to at least think of a connection.

[Gin]

I'm pretty sure everyone knew that they were siblings. Can't imagine how they wouldn't.

[akt_m]

I'm pretty sure everyone knew that they were siblings. Can't imagine how they wouldn't.

Wow, who is siblings of who???

not serious... : P

Edited September 18, 2008 by akt_m

[dreamweaver13]

Wow, who is siblings of who???

not serious... : P

havent't you been listening? Ranka and Sheryl, that's who!!

[Randalt]

Pretty clear. Definitely not a surprise they were siblings if you were paying attention. So does that mean the show's creators assume most Japanese viewers weren't? What is the target audience for this show anyway?

[Kelsain]

About the Vajra: Each individual acts as a synapse, according to GG. From the diagrams, it looks like the ships act like sort of a node or ganglion. All of this adds up to Bilrer's graphic of them possessing one mind across the galactic core. I was thinking of how Ranka may fit into this, and why Leon sees it as such a danger. It is unknown, so far, how intelligent the Vajra are. The consciousness they share is not necessarily sentient. Perhaps this is what Leon fears: with Ranka added to their mind, the Vajra will be able to think, plan and go on the offense; rather than simply react and defend.

Edited September 18, 2008 by Kelsain

[VF-25 Messiah]

Perhaps this is what Leon fears: with Ranka added to their mind, the Vajra will be able to think, plan and go on the offense; rather than simply react and defend.

I think he simply fears Grace. He knows Grace is up to something, and it seems to involve Ranka. Killing Ranka thus foils Grace.