Macross Frontier Episode 23 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Kelsain]

Ranshe's face appears in the photo attached to the trio's Cosmo Nature article. It was noted before that she does bear some resemblance to Sheryl. Interesting theory, but it seems overly complex (then again, it's anime!) In theory #1, why would Grace use a macro/micro chamber to perform surgery? Are you imagining it would be easier operation on macro-organs? Have you ever seen a whale or elephant dissection? It's not pretty - chainsaws, hockey-stick sized flaying knives, etc. Then again, Grace may love to scrimshaw...

[Cybergig1]

New wild theory time. First off correct me if I am wrong, but have we ever seen a clear picture of Ranshe's face?

yep wasn't it this episode where we see Ranka and her brother singing/playing on the hill with Ranshe sitting down and Vajra all flying above their heads? I thought it was a pretty clear picture of her face. I'll have to go rewatch it to see how much she might resemble Sheryl though

interesting idea overall

Also back when Grace "Abandoned" Sheryl though didn't she call her "Fairy 9" or whatever number as in there were others before her? I really need to go back and rewatch some things to refresh my memory. But I think at the time I had the idea that she was just another failed experiment in a line and since she had found Ranka she was just completely abandoning the project since it no longer mattered.

as for the earrings it could still be she just makes as many as she wants. I really want to know though if they are THE exact same earrings we see in the Macross Zero Blu Ray edition. That would still be awesome

Edited September 16, 2008 by Cybergig1

[Gin]

1) Grace thinking that Ranka (so far the only carrier and immune person to the V-typ infection) is dead rescues Ranshe despite their differing views on how to appraoch the Varja issue. Ranshe is severly injured to the point of dying, but becaus her v-type infection is controllable she does everything she can to save her, eventually resorting to using a micro/macronization chamber to conduct surgery on her. However, during the micronizing she undergoes a similar defect to that seen in Klan and is reduced to a child (this might also explain how max and millia have aged so little in 7). Realizing that a child Ranshe is useless to her Grace puts her through the ringer, erasing her memory (like she did to Brera, her son), and altering her appearance slightly (hair color), then she puts her through the treatment to save her life and temporarily dumps her on the street so that when she comes back to rescue her she becomes dependant on her. Or Ranshe/Sheryl might have escaped the lab, but because her memory was erased she had no idea what to do until Grace "rescued" her.

A couple problems here. Klan still doesn't age when micronized. So Sheryl wouldn't either. Also, Max isn't a zent so why would that have anything to do with him?

[Jeid]

Also, Max isn't a zent so why would that have anything to do with him?

It's probably a reference to his macronization in DYRL.

[Gin]

It's probably a reference to his macronization in DYRL.

I know the designs of DYRL are canon but are the events in it as well?

[cyde01]

trust me guys, he's the president of frontier and frontier alone. nothing more, nothing less.

[DarkReaper]

So Frontier is its own city-state like monaco, just with a better army.

[VF-25 Messiah]

So Frontier is its own city-state like monaco, just with a better army.

Kind of, but I don't think the relationship between Frontier and Earth could really be described as "state to state". Perhaps a autonomous (moving) region, is closer.

[Mr March]

I really enjoyed this episode, perhaps even more than the last. However, I have to say I saw Brera's mind screw from Grace coming ever since was outed as her cybernetic super-being persona. Why Brera would even entertain the idea he had free will after being created by Grace is beyond me and kinda makes Brera look stupid. Still, I suppose it does open the way for an inevitable struggle of wills, perhaps with Brera remembering his past as a catalyst.

Anyway, despite that one facet of the show, this is going great. Next episode looks even better!

[Knight26]

Where is it stated that Klan doesn't age when Micronized, all we see is that she deages when micronized, which she does at regular intervals, there has been no mention, that I can recall, that she does not age when micronized, remember she grew up as a full sized zent according to what has been seen on screen.

[dreamweaver13]

Max was also only the commander of the military there, he didn't have charge of the civilians, that was Milia's job.

then wouldn't it have been so much simpler to just ask permission from his wife to use the nukes, rather than contact officers on earth? or has their fighting gone THAT bad already.

as much as i would like to add observations on the presidency issue of glass (frontier or entire NUNG), i brought it all up in the "macross government thread" that was around some time ago. for the life of me, i can't find it anymore. too bad, coz it was an interesting back-and-forth on the topic of glass' presidency, running along the reasoning lines of practicality, earth-centric nature of humans, interstellar civilizations and political structures.

for now, i still find the concept of a mobile government so interesting. and after reading the Foundation books, (where they don't even remember where the original home planet of humans was) i'm pretty sure that type of earth-independent civilization is where the macross government system is headed (if they're not there already).

EDIT: but i still think Leon is not the official next-in-line for the presidency. he just happened to be the next highest civilian authority that time. i'd like to think the moment the rest of the fleets get a hold of the death of Glass, they would appoint the real next in line, or hold an election, or the true Vice President in some other fleet becomes president.

Edited September 16, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[dreamweaver13]

trust me guys, he's the president of frontier and frontier alone. nothing more, nothing less.

Why of course! I would definitely trust you over the official macross frontier webpage and compendium any day!

[RF-26AAC]

So Frontier is its own city-state like monaco, just with a better army.

And bigger than a few square miles.

[s-girl]

Hm. Gut flora. That means that Ranka is pooping out viruses like crazy? Sorry, but the infectious disease specialist in me is thinking... oh... so not good.

Well, the overly technical explanations into the biological mechanism for Ranka's abilities means really only one thing. Since Ranka was infected in utero, she has antibodies. Antibodies lends themselves to a cure. If I were Grace, I'd get some blood samples before I messed more with experiments with the Queen. If I were Luca, I'd also go after Ranka for a cure for Sheryl.

(Or I"d start doing some serology sampling of other Global survivors to see if they have immunity. It's possible that collection of enough antisera could yield a cure for Sheryl.l also still think it's biologically plausible that Sheryl could battle this thing on her own... but maybe the writers won't like that idea. It doesn't do much for the plot.)

So now I'm bored. I had rather liked the mysterious glowing bit inside Ranka, but this is similar to the midichlorian thingies in Star Wars. :-( Except it is grounded even further in current modern day science.

This also makes me think that Sheryl had to be a deliberate infection on part of Grace or the lab experiments. What we learned about Ranshe was that her exposure to the Vajra led her to becoming ill. How could Sheryl acquire the V-type infection in the wild on Galaxy? She'd either have to have not been sick and infected by Grace (in order to see if she could generate powers and antibodies) or have been on Global.

Edited September 17, 2008 by s-girl

[sketchley]

Ah, but: http://www.macrossf.com/character/chara10.html

However either it or the series is in error, as they appear to contradict each other.

Link: 新統合政府大統領。

Series (Eps 01, 15:00): フロンティア大統領府。

Though generally in these sorts of things, the series takes precedent .

trust me guys, he's the president of frontier and frontier alone. nothing more, nothing less.

[NoNameSt11]

Hm. Gut flora. That means that Ranka is pooping out viruses like crazy? Sorry, but the infectious disease specialist in me is thinking... oh... so not good.

Well, the overly technical explanations into the biological mechanism for Ranka's abilities means really only one thing. Since Ranka was infected in utero, she has antibodies. Antibodies lends themselves to a cure. If I were Grace, I'd get some blood samples before I messed more with experiments with the Queen. If I were Luca, I'd also go after Ranka for a cure for Sheryl.

(Or I"d start doing some serology sampling of other Global survivors to see if they have immunity. It's possible that collection of enough antisera could yield a cure for Sheryl.l also still think it's biologically plausible that Sheryl could battle this thing on her own... but maybe the writers won't like that idea. It doesn't do much for the plot.)

So now I'm bored. I had rather liked the mysterious glowing bit inside Ranka, but this is similar to the midichlorian thingies in Star Wars. :-( Except it is grounded even further in current modern day science.

This also makes me think that Sheryl had to be a deliberate infection on part of Grace or the lab experiments. What we learned about Ranshe was that her exposure to the Vajra led her to becoming ill. How could Sheryl acquire the V-type infection in the wild on Galaxy? She'd either have to have not been sick and infected by Grace (in order to see if she could generate powers and antibodies) or have been on Global.

Sheryl being infected as part of Grace's plan was already confirmed back around ep 15 or 16 when Grace tells her that she was nothing more than an experiment. And if Ranka had antibodies for the V-virus it would've been destroyed by her immune system long ago. She's more or less formed a symbiosis with the bacteria since it only stays/survives in her intestines (hence the glowing stomach) and can't travel out into the blood stream.

As for Glass, he's the president of the NUN on Frontier. It'd be stupid to put the leader of the planets and fleets on the farthest colonization fleet. Not only could he be attacked by unknown forces, but any decisions would take forever to be relayed between other fleets/planets. 'Official' websites aren't always the best at posting accurate information, mostly since the webmaster in charge might not watch the show or be involved with it's production.

[s-girl]

Sheryl being infected as part of Grace's plan was already confirmed back around ep 15 or 16 when Grace tells her that she was nothing more than an experiment. And if Ranka had antibodies for the V-virus it would've been destroyed by her immune system long ago. She's more or less formed a symbiosis with the bacteria since it only stays/survives in her intestines (hence the glowing stomach) and can't travel out into the blood stream.

Did they actually state that? That would be a factual error. Antibodies can subsist for many years. This is the principle behind numerous vaccinations needing only to be given once in our human lifetime.

Even recently there have been examples of antibodies obtained from people who survived the 1918 influenza pandemic. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/118480.php

[akt_m]

Did they actually state that? That would be a factual error. Antibodies can subsist for many years. This is the principle behind numerous vaccinations needing only to be given once in our human lifetime.

Even recently there have been examples of antibodies obtained from people who survived the 1918 influenza pandemic. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/118480.php

We can't build transforming robots, nuclear powerered jet engines, big spaceships, beam weapons etc... 

[s-girl]

We can't build transforming robots, nuclear powerered jet engines, big spaceships, beam weapons etc...

Yes, but the biological science that is the basis of the Vajra 'infectoin' is patterned after current molecular biology and virology. A lot of what is shown "medically" is also comparable with current tech, unlike the tech stuff dealing with the mechs.

It's oddly convenient to put medical science so far behind when they clearly have microscopic technology. Using current methods that are being used for immunologic therapy though may be "too boring" for the writers. I dunno though, since I'm kind of like "oh, this problem is kind of easy to solve if Frontier has a minimum of year 2008 biological techniques at hand."

I need the other docs to back me up here, but the link above is real life science being done this year. It is not inconceivable that real life science can be applied years in the future, unless Frontier has no biologists sitting around.

On another note regarding all the paper airplane stuff -- I'm going to throw the explanation for Sheryl's airplane crashing as a combination of bad paper and thinning oxygen concentrations

I have no idea if the gravity is still 0.7g (I think that was what was shown in episode 1), but I was curious if atmospheric conditions also could just mess with all paper planes. (Because sometimes I like hitting back on all the speculation with a bit of science )

Paper planes on mars....

http://www.exo.net/~pauld/Mars/6play/playingonmars.html

Edited September 17, 2008 by s-girl

[akt_m]

It's oddly convenient to put medical science so far behind when they clearly have microscopic technology. Using current methods that are being used for immunologic therapy though may be "too boring" for the writers. I dunno though, since I'm kind of like "oh, this problem is kind of easy to solve if Frontier has a minimum of year 2008 biological techniques at hand."

I need the other docs to back me up here, but the link above is real life science being done this year. It is not inconceivable that real life science can be applied years in the future, unless Frontier has no biologists sitting around.

That's probably the reason. BTW are you a doc? That's why you know about this stuff?

[Major Focker]

On another note regarding all the paper airplane stuff -- I'm going to throw the explanation for Sheryl's airplane crashing as a combination of bad paper and thinning oxygen concentrations

I have no idea if the gravity is still 0.7g (I think that was what was shown in episode 1), but I was curious if atmospheric conditions also could just mess with all paper planes. (Because sometimes I like hitting back on all the speculation with a bit of science )

Paper planes on mars....

http://www.exo.net/~pauld/Mars/6play/playingonmars.html

probably not about lower oxygen concentration per se, but more about a general decline in air density (like how air is thinner at high altitudes hence requiring either larger wing surfaces or travelling faster to generate enough lift). paper planes will fly in any appropriate combination of gravity and air/gas density regardless of the elemental composition of the air/gas. in this case, physics governs flight, not chemistry, unlike in lighter-than-air flight (eg. balloons).

but all in all, i'd still say it's down to bad paper and lousy origami.

[daflip702]

Paper clips is cheating. Ideally, you should be able to design a paper airplane that has the right weight balance naturally. This is much easier said than done, of course.

Well mr. Deebot.....if you find that making a balanced paper airplane hard then that's on you, but paperclips aren't cheating, it's using any resource possible to make a great plane. Besides, wouldn't you feel like an idiot when the other kid's plane flew better than yours all because he did the research and used imagination to build a better airplane....now wouldn't that suck. d'oh.....

[daflip702]

Paper clips is cheating. Ideally, you should be able to design a paper airplane that has the right weight balance naturally. This is much easier said than done, of course.

Well mr. Deebot.....if you find that making a balanced paper airplane hard then that's on you, but paperclips aren't cheating, it's using any resource possible to make a great plane. Besides, wouldn't you feel like an idiot when the other kid's plane flew better than yours all because he did the research and used imagination to build a better airplane....now wouldn't that suck. d'oh.....

[d3v]

I really enjoyed this episode, perhaps even more than the last. However, I have to say I saw Brera's mind screw from Grace coming ever since was outed as her cybernetic super-being persona. Why Brera would even entertain the idea he had free will after being created by Grace is beyond me and kinda makes Brera look stupid. Still, I suppose it does open the way for an inevitable struggle of wills, perhaps with Brera remembering his past as a catalyst.

Knowing Grace, she probably knew that it was going to happen eventually anyway, despite what she's told Leon.

[dreamweaver13]

Well mr. Deebot.....if you find that making a balanced paper airplane hard then that's on you, but paperclips aren't cheating, it's using any resource possible to make a great plane. Besides, wouldn't you feel like an idiot when the other kid's plane flew better than yours all because he did the research and used imagination to build a better airplane....now wouldn't that suck. d'oh.....

only now did i notice the fine detail of your avatar.

was this how ranka was made?

[daflip702]

On another note regarding all the paper airplane stuff -- I'm going to throw the explanation for Sheryl's airplane crashing as a combination of bad paper and thinning oxygen concentrations

I have no idea if the gravity is still 0.7g (I think that was what was shown in episode 1), but I was curious if atmospheric conditions also could just mess with all paper planes. (Because sometimes I like hitting back on all the speculation with a bit of science )

Science has alot to do with Everything. This is why I say having an "indefinite thermonuclear reactor engine" that has to rely on a limited type of propellant is retarded. Anyways, I'm pretty sure the Frontier has "planet-like" conditions that are congruent to Earth.

only now did i notice the fine detail of your avatar.

was this how ranka was made?

Hmmm...maybe true. Tell you one thing.......Brera was made from scraps in the backlot of a Honda factory. "Ohh.....a steering column!!!!"

dreamweaver13......do they broadcast anime in the Phillipines? I catch some of the filipino content via TFC in Vegas.....i understand a little tagalog but who cares...dem flip women are Hawttttttt

[d3v]

dreamweaver13......do they broadcast anime in the Phillipines? I catch some of the filipino content via TFC in Vegas.....i understand a little tagalog but who cares...dem flip women are Hawttttttt

Well, Philippine TV stations have been dubbing anime since the the late 70's (heck, <i>Chōdenji Machine Voltes V</i> is as close to an official "national anime" over here). Currently, we've got two cable channels dedicated to anime, the Philippine edition of Animax-Asia (mostly english dub witha f ew subtitled stuff) and Hero TV (tagalog dub).

[VF-25S Full Armour]

That's probably the reason. BTW are you a doc? That's why you know about this stuff?

Actually, she's a health scientist. IIRC an Epidemiologist aka infectious disease specialist.

[VF-25S Full Armour]

Speaking of g value, if frontier's g is really that low (0.7 i.e. approx. 2/3 of earth), wouldn't that have various effects on human physiology, both desirable and otherwise?

This reminds me of bone density issues from extended microgravity exposure. If the standard g level is really that small, shouldn't they be suffering side effects such as lowered bone density, muscle strength, etc. compared to their earth brethren? Not to mention how this would affect the height of someone who grew up in such a lowered g environment.

[Knight26]

IIRC .7G is stated to be the minimum gravity at which bone density will not decline with prolonged exposure, so a .7G environment would not be detrimental to the human body, but would lead to taller people, but possibly lower G tolerances. I will have to talk to my NASA buddies to be sure though.

[Mr March]

Knowing Grace, she probably knew that it was going to happen eventually anyway, despite what she's told Leon.

I think someone here (or at another message board) mentioned how Grace appears to be a flip side to the Vajra. Whereas the Vajra are basically a bio-mechanical singular consciousness, Grace appears to be (or wants to be) the cybernetic equivalent.

[VF-25S Full Armour]

I think someone here (or at another message board) mentioned how Grace appears to be a flip side to the Vajra. Whereas the Vajra are basically a bio-mechanical singular consciousness, Grace appears to be (or wants to be) the cybernetic equivalent.

That explains the whole argument Grace had with Ranshe about sacrificing Vajra test subjects and 0 fold time network theory. Imagine Grace plugged in GITS style with the whole Vajra army at her will through Ranka as the interface.

Grace: "Power, UNLIMITED POWER!!!!!!!"

Grace just had another big O...

[DeeBot]

Well mr. Deebot.....if you find that making a balanced paper airplane hard then that's on you, but paperclips aren't cheating, it's using any resource possible to make a great plane. Besides, wouldn't you feel like an idiot when the other kid's plane flew better than yours all because he did the research and used imagination to build a better airplane....now wouldn't that suck. d'oh.....

I'm not going to get into a war of insults with you--my original comment was mostly tongue-in-cheek--but I'll just point out that they're paper airplanes, not paper-and-metal airplanes. Just like it's not origami if you start taking scissors to it. You could build an airplane out of paper that has a gasoline engine, flies at 400 mph, and carries 4 people comfortably, but it's not a paper airplane. I enjoy building R/C airplanes out of balsa, but I'm not going to call it a paper airplane just because it contains wood fiber.

[dreamweaver13]

Well, Philippine TV stations have been dubbing anime since the the late 70's (heck, <i>Chōdenji Machine Voltes V</i> is as close to an official "national anime" over here). Currently, we've got two cable channels dedicated to anime, the Philippine edition of Animax-Asia (mostly english dub witha f ew subtitled stuff) and Hero TV (tagalog dub).

Yup, what he said. two local UHF channels try to pass themselves of as "anime" channels (they show various anime during the afternoons and weekend mornings, dubbed in filipino). On the other hand, they tend to show the same anime over and over again. takes long before they show a new one.

and then there are the two cable channels. also offering english dubbed anime.

sadly, there is NO channel which offers anime in subbed form. hence, i don't really watch any of these channels, and rely on subs downloads and bootlegs.

[dreamweaver13]

Ok, i finally saw the subs for this episode (wow, everything makes sense now! it makes sense that everything is so vague! i honestly don't know where this is headed anymore. (good thing i stopped speculating a while back).

nevertheless some obsevations. so clearly sheryl feels that alto is just showing her some sympathy. ""Being kind is a sin. Even if i know it's condescending sympathy, i'll want to take advantage."

On the other hand, Alto kind of admits that he joined the SMS/army to protect one girl - Ranka. and that everyhting he's done is for that girl. never the less, when push comes to shove, and give3n a choice between ranka and his duty to protect humanity... he chose humanity.

sounds familiar. ahem. misa. ahem. hikaru.

see? i told you i quit speculating a long time ago.