Macross Frontier Episode 23 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Morpheus]

Did anyone notice that the staff on Frontier want to contact main NUNS about their problems? So Frontier is a branch of NUNS after all, Earth is still in control.

[mike_s_6]

GG:

"Hey, even though i said it's not alcohol, that's...."

Lunar:

"Hey, even if that isn't alcohol it's..."

Whatever it is, Alto knows it's capable of getting Sheryl drunk. That's why after she gets drunk and passes out he says "Just as I predicted"

Now I wonder what's in that thing

[Morpheus]

Now I wonder what's in that thing

Contentrated spice, imported from Colony on Arakken.

[dreamweaver13]

Now I wonder what's in that thing

"moe" juice.

[shinkirou]

lolz I was smiling a lot while reading the posts by you guys regarding paper airplanes XD

complete with analysis and trial runs as well XD

well, back to topic, 3 more days till episode 24

thr triangle will most likely have a conclusion here hehehe <--- this is just my prediction

waaaaaahhhhhh!!!! itching for the next eps and new songs by May'n as Sheryl Nome!!!! XD

[vanpang]

"moe" juice.

probably side effects from the medications, her pills probably does not mix well with drink

[Lethalzero]

i still cant find the subs for gg mkv.

i hope someone could help me here

[Morpheus]

i still cant find the subs for gg mkv.

i hope someone could help me here

Lunar sub (avi) is out, you can find them on Animesuki or Tokyo Toshokan.

[azrael]

Lunar sub (avi) is out, you can find them on Animesuki or Tokyo Toshokan.

Or you can always check GG's website, which is also linked in the first post of this thread. Their script is also posted on their site.

[Gin]

For those that just want to stream it the eps usually come out on Veoh fast enough.

[DeeBot]

thr triangle will most likely have a conclusion here hehehe <--- this is just my prediction

There was an interview hint that Alto would

say something shocking related to the resolution of the love triangle

.

I think we got it in this episode, with the "I'm going to kill Ranka!" bit. It seems to fit the evidence.

If so, though, does that mean the love triangle has been resolved (and we just don't realize it yet)? Maybe "Ranka wins" is the right answer after all. Or maybe that interview response was misleading, and it's going to be open right up until the end.

Edited September 16, 2008 by DeeBot

[dreamweaver13]

There was an interview hint that Alto would

say something shocking related to the resolution of the love triangle

.

I think we got it in this episode, with the "I'm going to kill Ranka!" bit. It seems to fit the evidence.

If so, though, does that mean the love triangle has been resolved? Or maybe that interview response was misleading. and it's going to be open right up until the end, then conclude in some non-surprising manner.

by this time, it'll be a surprise to me if the show doesn't pull a surprise resolution to the triangle. so either way, it's gonna surprise me! SK has won already.

but actually, that "kill ranka" statement did catch me off-guard already. i watched it RAW, and my mind back-tracked a second... waittaminute, did he really say "ranka" and "kill" in the same sentence??!

Edited September 16, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[daflip702]

Pretty good no nonsense ep. and may I add it contained some comic relief. woohoo.

Good to see Alto grow some balls and think for himself...his brother is correct that Alto just responds to what going around him and not doing his own thing. Now for the love triangle thing....I guess that anime writers think it's cute when they have a "clueless" protagonist. Alto is denser than a lead brick. Explaination: saying "I won't leave your side", Isn't "I want to be your boyfriend/husband". Give me a break. I think Sheryls even confused....Maybe that airplane has a note inside that contained her feelings......bleh.

Sheryl confesed in an indirect manner that she wants to be with Alto. I think it's also childish, but hey, we are talking about TEENAGERS here. Now if Sheryl is hitting mid 20's, then that's a different story. I do have a feeling in the back of my head that she'll live....but we won't see it.

And there's Ranka. Got to give her some props because most fighting dosen't fix everything. But, didn't mommy tell you that is bad to play with dangerous bugs? I guess she didn't get the memo.

Note to Brera: Get the F*k outta there!!!!!! Get Alto, sorry that I kicked your *ss, and Ranka is in deep Sh*t.....go get her. Brera realized why Alto seems loose on protecting the Fast Pack hybrid Ranka. "Girls are nothing but trouble" song pops into head.

Once again......Grace shows why she's a Badass.

p.s. Judging from the paper airplane designs.....they both suck, what no paper clips?

[jenius]

Note to Brera: Get the F*k outta there!!!!!! Get Alto, sorry that I kicked your *ss, and Ranka is in deep Sh*t.....go get her. Brera realized why Alto seems loose on protecting the Fast Pack hybrid Ranka. "Girls are nothing but trouble" song pops into head.

Brera is in slave mode now... he can't do anything but what Grace tells him.

[vanpang]

Brera is in slave mode now... he can't do anything but what Grace tells him.

Brera would probably snap out of it at the last minute and sacrifice himself to save/protect his sister or thats how they usually happen in animes!

[DeeBot]

p.s. Judging from the paper airplane designs.....they both suck, what no paper clips?

Paper clips is cheating. Ideally, you should be able to design a paper airplane that has the right weight balance naturally. This is much easier said than done, of course.

[anime52k8]

"moe" juice.

is that anything like pimp juice?

[dreamweaver13]

is that anything like pimp juice?

I'd reply, but i don't know what "pimp juice" means, and what it's supposed to do.

EDIT after wiki: got it! in that sense, yeah i GUESS it's like pimp juice.

Edited September 16, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[Kronnang Dunn]

Did anyone notice that the staff on Frontier want to contact main NUNS about their problems? So Frontier is a branch of NUNS after all, Earth is still in control.

Just as I always thought. But just to clarify... The head of the NUN Goverment was Howard Glass (Check the Official Site Profile and the Compendium)... So Earth was the main supply base, but the commanding base has been Frontier all along. And it seems that Leon is now the Big Cheese (It seems he was just appointed new President on this Episode).

Edited September 16, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[dreamweaver13]

Just as I always thought. But just to clarify... The head of the NUN Goverment was Howard Glass... So Earth was the main base, but the power base has been Frontier all along. And it seems that Leon is now the Big Cheese (It seems he was just appointed new President on this Episode).

while i still like the idea that Glass was the president of the entire NUN government, i would like to think that in case of his demise, someone else (i.e. vice president) has been pre-appointed as next-in-line for the presidency, other than the president's own aide/chief of staff.

Edited September 16, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[anime52k8]

Just as I always thought. But just to clarify... The head of the NUN Goverment was Howard Glass (Check the Official Site Profile and the Compendium)... So Earth was the main supply base, but the commanding base has been Frontier all along. And it seems that Leon is now the Big Cheese (It seems he was just appointed new President on this Episode).

I find it really hard to believe that the glass was the president of ALL of the NUN government. their has to be higher up's that the Frontier reports to back to on an actual panet, (I mean who in their right mind would put the leadership of earth and all it's colonies on a fleet that's half way across the galaxy.)

[VF-25S Full Armour]

I find it really hard to believe that the glass was the president of ALL of the NUN government. their has to be higher up's that the Frontier reports to back to on an actual planet, (I mean who in their right mind would put the leadership of earth and all it's colonies on a fleet that's half way across the galaxy.)

Well, if earth was under the level of bombardment it experienced in SW1...

But my point is, Frontier's current situation might have been unthinkable not so long ago. At the time, putting the head of NUNS there might not seem like such a bad idea, seeing that (if I'm not mistaken) Frontier is (soon to be was if Hitler wannabe Leon screws it the same way the real Hitler screwed Germany to Hell's basement back in WW2) one of his pet projects.

Edited September 16, 2008 by VF-25S Full Armour

[sketchley]

He was the President.

Now, the real question is: how different is the New UN Government from the UN Government? Or even - is the NUNG a breakaway from the UNG? Until we get some more information on the actual size and scope of the New UN Government, we may as well consider NUNG to be limited to the Frontier fleet only!

[DarkReaper]

Yeah, maybe the colonie fleets have decided to become seperatist and installed their own exile government or something.

[Kelsain]

I still wonder if each of the major colony fleets like Frontier are essentially their own country, but with NUN military support. At Leon's council meeting, it seems like they were saying that calling in NUNS backup was equivalent to giving up their search for a new planet. Why is this the case? Does it mean that the NUN comes in and take direct control of the fleet and any planets they might find? Or does it mean that they arrive to help mitigate the catastrophe and get the fleet back to a safe colony world, abandoning the mission? Either way, it hints that Leon does not have a final say in the matter, as he is reluctant to make the call. Maybe he just doesn't want the NUN to challenge the legitimacy of his succession.

Back to the paper airplanes for a moment, I like the symbolism that is implied by Sheryl's being made from a crumpled piece of paper. I worry though: After fashioning the airplane from said crumpled piece, it soars for a brief, shining moment, then nosedives...

But on the other hand, the first plane Alto makes has Sheryl's picture inside it (the poster), the scene where he catches it and flies is pretty much the happiest we see him in the whole series, until he reaches the dome. Later, Ai-kun takes down his airplane in Ranka's room; the Vajra stand between him and Ranka having any real connection. Later, he teaches Ranka how to fold a plane, but Ai-kun catches it again, but does not destroy it; through Ranka's actions, maybe they can reconcile and be together. Who knows?!

At least we've finally settled the issue of Ranka's tummy.

[DeeBot]

I still think the NUN is more of a loose alliance than a rigidly top-down government. Glass was president of the government on Frontier, but that government essentially reports to no one, even though all of humanity is part of the NUN political entity. Nothing we've seen seems to suggest that Glass, or now Leon, had responsibilities beyond Frontier. They certainly seem to have no idea what's going on on Galaxy, nor did Galaxy pick Frontier because Glass was there, but for many other reasons. You'd think if the seat of government were there, it'd figure more prominently in their calculations. The Senate also seems to be restricted to Frontier; when they vote to make the long distance jump, they aren't taking opinions from other fleets. Glass also seems mainly concerned about Frontier's fate, and nothing more; he wants to finish Frontier's colonization mission, not fight a war with the Vajra or investigate any larger threat to humanity.

Think of it a bit like how the real world UN works. The UN of SW1 was a unified world government, quite different from the real world UN. This was forced by various events, such as the arrival of ASS-1 and the prospect of alien invasion. Once humanity began dispersing itself, political control would also need to be kept dispersed. Each fleet is independent enough and isolated enough that they essentially act as their own small nations. Since we know that mankind hasn't developed Vajra-style zero-latency fold communication yet, we can assume that it would be impossible to maintain a centralized, galaxy-spanning empire, even if it were desirable.

Still, all of humanity (among other races) would nominally acknowledge that they're members of one international organization, the New UN. They would have what would essentially be diplomatic contacts between themselves, and pledge mutual defense aid. Asking Earth for help would be like having a small country (Frontier) ask a much larger country (Earth) for help in defending against an aggressor (the Vajra). I think it's significant that the government on Frontier is extremely reluctant to ask for assistance, even now, even though you'd assume that they'd ask for it as soon as they first came under attack.

The NUN might not even have a single president. The NUN's executive might simply be a council of the various presidents of the various fleets and inhabited planets, making collective decisions.

Now, I'll cheerfully admit that there's no evidence for any of this. But there's no real evidence Glass is anything more than essentially the mayor of Frontier (Milia-style), either. There's just the one vague, ambiguous statement that Glass is the president of the New UN, but I think it's most likely that this just means the NUN branch on Frontier. We took the statement at face value and ran with it.

Edited September 16, 2008 by DeeBot

[Gin]

It felt like Glass had more power than Milia did though with the military. Perhaps they improved upon that same system slightly.

[Kelsain]

It felt like Glass had more power than Milia did though with the military. Perhaps they improved upon that same system slightly.

Glass also had a lot more civilians to protect and more responsibility.

[Gin]

Which would be why he is a president instead of a mayor perhaps.

[anime52k8]

I still wonder if each of the major colony fleets like Frontier are essentially their own country, but with NUN military support. At Leon's council meeting, it seems like they were saying that calling in NUNS backup was equivalent to giving up their search for a new planet. Why is this the case? Does it mean that the NUN comes in and take direct control of the fleet and any planets they might find? Or does it mean that they arrive to help mitigate the catastrophe and get the fleet back to a safe colony world, abandoning the mission? Either way, it hints that Leon does not have a final say in the matter, as he is reluctant to make the call. Maybe he just doesn't want the NUN to challenge the legitimacy of his succession.

this is kind of how I see it. I was alway's under the impression that coloneis are to the NUN as porto rico is to the US; seperate contry, but still part of NUN. and as for the reluctance to call in backup, it's probably because if they did, a NUNS fleet would come in, take over comand of the fleet, and sail it back to the nearest safe location. and leon's little power trip would come to an end.

[Final Vegeta]

Max had to ask Earth permission to use nukes, while Glass did it on his own. I think this political reorganization is due to the increasing distance of the fleets from Earth.

FV

[Final Vegeta]

At least we've finally settled the issue of Ranka's tummy.

Yeah, basically it's gut flora.

FV

[Gin]

Max had to ask Earth permission to use nukes, while Glass did it on his own. I think this political reorganization is due to the increasing distance of the fleets from Earth.

FV

Max was also only the commander of the military there, he didn't have charge of the civilians, that was Milia's job.

[Knight26]

New wild theory time. First off correct me if I am wrong, but have we ever seen a clear picture of Ranshe's face? TO the best of my knowledge we have only seen her from the back or from the neck down, and the picture Alto finds aboard the SDF-4 has the glass broken and smeared with dirt to obscure her face. Now, from what we have seen her body type is remarkabley similar to one other character on the show, which no one else seems to have, i.e. we're not seeing characters who have the same body but different heads used here like in some animation. The body we see of Ranshe seems to quite closely match that of a certain singer, and not Ranka her daughter, but either herself or her possible clone, Sheryl. Stay with me here. I'll have to listen again, but her voice actress also sounded quite a lot like Sheryl, so the theory goes one of two ways.

1) Grace thinking that Ranka (so far the only carrier and immune person to the V-typ infection) is dead rescues Ranshe despite their differing views on how to appraoch the Varja issue. Ranshe is severly injured to the point of dying, but becaus her v-type infection is controllable she does everything she can to save her, eventually resorting to using a micro/macronization chamber to conduct surgery on her. However, during the micronizing she undergoes a similar defect to that seen in Klan and is reduced to a child (this might also explain how max and millia have aged so little in 7). Realizing that a child Ranshe is useless to her Grace puts her through the ringer, erasing her memory (like she did to Brera, her son), and altering her appearance slightly (hair color), then she puts her through the treatment to save her life and temporarily dumps her on the street so that when she comes back to rescue her she becomes dependant on her. Or Ranshe/Sheryl might have escaped the lab, but because her memory was erased she had no idea what to do until Grace "rescued" her.

2) version 2 is similar but instead of saving Ranshe, Grace just ups and clones her, then intentionally infects the clone with the V-type infection because she believes that Ranka is dead. Again she puts her through the treatment to save her life and temporarily dumps her on the street so that when she comes back to rescue her she becomes dependant on her. Or Ranshe/Sheryl might have escaped the lab, but because her memory was erased she had no idea what to do until Grace "rescued" her.

In the end Grace's plan needs someone with a V-type infection who can bridge the gap between human and Varja, so Ranshe or Ranka are her two ideal tools. The way she just abandons Sheryl after Sheryl proves beyond a shadow of a dobut that Ranka is Ranshe's daughter, and has the singing ability Grace needs is more proof of this. Also, look at the way that Sheryl helps Ranka out in the early part of the series, she keeps doing little things to build Ranka up and make her a start, possibly some hidden maternal instinct coming out. Of course this also explains how Sheryl got the earrings, she really is a Nome descendent, as are Ranka and Brera, whose real last names might be Nome afterall.

[sketchley]

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned so far regarding the political leadership of the New UNG or Frontier is how big of a change it is from the past:

(from the Compendium Timeline)

Pre-SWI: Prime Minister

Post SWI: UN Chairperson (unclear if the position of Prime Minister still exists or has been replaced by this position)

Macross Frontier: NUNG President

Going just by the names used, it appears that there has been a change from a parliamentary democracy (somewhat akin to the Japanese Diet) to something akin to the UN of the real world (representatives of different nationstates meeting under the aegis of a meeting leader) to a President-led republic.

OF course, it could all be one and the same, and similar to a Semi-presidential system, like they have in France; with a president, prime minister, and a UN Chairperson. At this time, without more details, it's still all guesstimates after a certain point.