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Episode 23  

191 members have voted

  1. 1. Rating

    • Positive (Sheryl is getting drunk. Giggity!)
      165
    • No Opinion/Neutral
      11
    • Negative (Are we done yet? Are we done yet? Are we done yet?...)
      15


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Posted
  Major Focker said:
keep the faith boys! it's always darkest before the storm finally breaks.

I hear you I'm holding on with all I got the tensions killer! :ph34r:

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Edited by Xeros
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*sharp exhale* glad I got that out there.

And yet, last ep he actually opened up to Sheryl and showed some actual compassion and caring... but then, he is a masterful actor.

Edited by RF-26AAC
Posted

Why people are so disappointed ?

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Posted (edited)
  magnuskn said:
Let´s just say that some stories of what Alto actually said are.... exaggerated.

I found after watching GG's and Lunar's subs from the last episode that my understanding of certain scenes shifted considerably as did my perceptions of certain characters from what people were saying in the forum discussions that followed the raw release.

Based on the initial debating here, I'll wait for the sub, I think, before jumping in on this one or wait for translations from a few folks first before drawing any conclusions.

Edited by s-girl
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Posted
  RF-26AAC said:
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Posted

I will wait for a subbed version, translations can be biased by personal feelings...

Posted
  DeeBot said:
While I was hoping that this would be a more character-driven episode, the plot revelations really came fast and furious. I can't wait for a sub so I can find out what they were. ;) Anyway, I think they're set up nicely for the final two episodes; anything could happen, at this point.

Overall, not an episode I'd watch more than a couple times, probably, but it serves its purpose. I was borderline positive on this one.

I agree that this episode comes at you pretty fast. It almost feels like they said: "What! Only three episode left?" :huh:

As far as the episode goes, I'm going wait and see the sub on this one. It's not bad, and I would vote it positive, however I've gotten to the point where I just want it to end, and I no longer care about the whole Ranka, Alto, Sheryl triangler. They killed Michel and left poor Klan just dangling. Nasase is in a coma and Grace will

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All the characters I really liked are dead or doomed including

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, So just let it end. :ph34r:

Posted
  RichterX said:
I will wait for a subbed version, translations can be biased by personal feelings...

Same could be said for the subs really. But I know what you mean. I was being very careful to avoid being biased in what little i actually did throw out a translation for.

Posted (edited)

The same thing can be said for newsreports and papers... hence why I often read more than one source for news stories.(And this is non-translated English :D )

I actually didn't have problems with the fansubs for the episodes. What I find challenging is that the merits of dialogue are being debated by non-native speakers for the most part in various forums and communities based on one fansub alone or snippets of dialogue being generously translated by other fans.

Then there is cultural filtering, which I feel sometimes is occurring in greater degree. I had very different interpretation of Episode 22 from the majority of the forum -- as relates to the Sheryl x Alto scene, but that's based on my biased Asian-American point of view of what is contextually appropriate to express and how 'love' is often not expressed.

I don't mean to discuss episode 22 here in an ep23 thread, but let's say that I disagree with most of the discussion that's occurred here on the "lack of meaning" of the SxA scene. It doesn't mean I'm right, but it does mean I differ based on my relative Asian background versus others who are from different countries and different cultural situations.

Edited by s-girl
Posted
  VF-25 Messiah said:
Same could be said for the subs really. But I know what you mean. I was being very careful to avoid being biased in what little i actually did throw out a translation for.

I should have said i will wait for the different subs to pop out. will actually watch different subtitles to try to get the whole picture.

Posted
  s-girl said:
The same thing can be said for newsreports and papers... hence why I often read more than one source for news stories.(And this is non-translated English :D )

I actually didn't have problems with the fansubs for the episodes. What I find challenging is that the merits of dialogue are being debated by non-native speakers for the most part in various forums and communities based on one fansub alone or snippets of dialogue being generously translated by other fans.

Then there is cultural filtering, which I feel sometimes is occurring in greater degree. I had very different interpretation of Episode 22 from the majority of the forum -- as relates to the Sheryl x Alto scene, but that's based on my biased Asian-American point of view of what is contextually appropriate to express and how 'love' is often not expressed.

I don't mean to discuss episode 22 here in an ep23 thread, but let's say that I disagree with most of the discussion that's occurred here on the "lack of meaning" of the SxA scene. It doesn't mean I'm right, but it does mean I differ based on my relative Asian background versus others who are from different countries and different cultural situations.

That's some useful insight that I don't get from my girlfriend (okinawan with western upbringing-- american dad/japanese mother-- she went to the english-speaking international HS)... she's useful in the common societal context but doesn't understand the 'unexpressed love' theme common in quite a few anime series.

what baffles me though, is given how oversexualized anime has become, their is still extreme conservatism and restraint regarding the expression of love, public displays of affection and so-on.

what do you think?

Posted
  anime52k8 said:
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Posted (edited)
  RedWolf said:
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Like I have posted several times before... Mao wasn't that old... She was 11 years old in 2008... Frontier is set in 2059... Do the math... :rolleyes:

  Duke Togo said:
I don't see the indecision.
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Agreed... Indecision? Hell... I've never seen Alto so focused in the entire series!!!! (Life is not just about getting the girl, you know?)

Btw... Excellent episode!!!!

Like I thought...

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Request: Does anybody has a clear pic of

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:blink:

Edited by Kronnang Dunn
Posted
  Necron_99 said:
Ai-kun is so cute! ^_^

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Posted (edited)
  RF-26AAC said:
what baffles me though, is given how oversexualized anime has become, their is still extreme conservatism and restraint regarding the expression of love, public displays of affection and so-on.

what do you think?

This comes down to what kind of writers we have present. I personally write from the perspective that the character drives the expression and the plot as opposed to trying to express the character according to audience mores and values. I don't know if that makes sense, but I would never bother creating a character with an East Asian background that doesn't reflect it in someway unless I was trying to just go for an impression.

My feeling is that Alto's background needs to be taken into consideration when evaluating his interactions. That said, I think there's more to the scene than has been interpreted so far on these and other English-speaking boards .

While some people need the kiss/sex to derive proof of deep feelings between characters, that is not something that is (to this day) generally expressed on most drama-based television in Japan and Korea. (Movies are wholly different matter.) Certainly anime falls outside those conventions, but I've never felt kawamori and Studio Nue write for that genre/niche of anime fans. I think they write what they perceive as fantasy or space opera or sci-fi first and might be sliglhtly surprised to think that they should conform to what anime has become lately.

Certainly the "I won't believe it until I have proof" is a cultural concept as well that is more Western in origin, so for folks who won't believe something until it's spelt out for them, many things will be unsatisfying because life is not always literal.

Edited by s-girl
Posted
  aerocombatpilot said:
I agree that this episode comes at you pretty fast. It almost feels like they said: "What! Only three episode left?" :huh:

Well, I think that's sorta been true of Frontier as a whole. The pacing's been pretty fast, with a lot of rapid cutting, even episodes that don't move the plot anywhere. This hasn't been a series that spends a lot of time dwelling on, say, a shot of the WTF-1. I wish they'd linger more on some scenes, but I guess that's the reality of storytelling in the television medium.

This does worry me a little bit when it comes to episodes 24 and 25. I'm afraid they're going to blow their production budget on the mecha pr0n, like they've done twice already back in episodes 7 and 14. I mean, this is the finale and all. However, long action sequences eat up exposition time. I'm convinced we'll get all the answers, but maybe not in as much detail as I'd like. Then again, I always thought they did a wonderful job combining plot and action back in episode 27 of SDFM, so maybe it's not completely impossible. :)

Posted (edited)
  DeeBot said:
Well, I think that's sorta been true of Frontier as a whole. The pacing's been pretty fast, with a lot of rapid cutting, even episodes that don't move the plot anywhere. This hasn't been a series that spends a lot of time dwelling on, say, a shot of the WTF-1. I wish they'd linger more on some scenes, but I guess that's the reality of storytelling in the television medium.

This does worry me a little bit when it comes to episodes 24 and 25. I'm afraid they're going to blow their production budget on the mecha pr0n, like they've done twice already back in episodes 7 and 14. I mean, this is the finale and all. However, long action sequences eat up exposition time. I'm convinced we'll get all the answers, but maybe not in as much detail as I'd like. Then again, I always thought they did a wonderful job combining plot and action back in episode 27 of SDFM, so maybe it's not completely impossible. :)

We could have a 2 hour special final episode, you know? ^_^

Edited by Kronnang Dunn
Posted
  s-girl said:
This comes down to what kind of writers we have present. I personally write from the perspective that the character drives the expression and the plot as opposed to trying to express the character according to audience mores and values. I don't know if that makes sense, but I would never bother creating a character with an East Asian background that doesn't reflect it in someway unless I was trying to just go for an impression.

My feeling is that Alto's background needs to be taken into consideration when evaluating his interactions. That said, I think there's more to the scene than has been interpreted so far on these and other English-speaking boards .

While some people need the kiss/sex to derive proof of deep feelings between characters, that is not something that is (to this day) generally expressed on most drama-based television in Japan and Korea. (Movies are wholly different matter.) Certainly anime falls outside those conventions, but I've never felt kawamori and Studio Nue write for that genre/niche of anime fans. I think they write what they perceive as fantasy or space opera or sci-fi first and might be sliglhtly surprised to think that they should conform to what anime has become lately.

Certainly the "I won't believe it until I have proof" is a cultural concept as well that is more Western in origin, so for folks who won't believe something until it's spelt out for them, many things will be unsatisfying because life is not always literal.

Eh? I just don't like speculation. I like to wait and see what actually happens instead of GUESSING what is GOING to happen because if you do that, you can easily be disappointed. :)

Posted (edited)
  s-girl said:
This comes down to what kind of writers we have present. I personally write from the perspective that the character drives the expression and the plot as opposed to trying to express the character according to audience mores and values. I don't know if that makes sense, but I would never bother creating a character with an East Asian background that doesn't reflect it in someway unless I was trying to just go for an impression.

My feeling is that Alto's background needs to be taken into consideration when evaluating his interactions. That said, I think there's more to the scene than has been interpreted so far on these and other English-speaking boards .

While some people need the kiss/sex to derive proof of deep feelings between characters, that is not something that is (to this day) generally expressed on most drama-based television in Japan and Korea. (Movies are wholly different matter.) Certainly anime falls outside those conventions, but I've never felt kawamori and Studio Nue write for that genre/niche of anime fans. I think they write what they perceive as fantasy or space opera or sci-fi first and might be sliglhtly surprised to think that they should conform to what anime has become lately.

Certainly the "I won't believe it until I have proof" is a cultural concept as well that is more Western in origin, so for folks who won't believe something until it's spelt out for them, many things will be unsatisfying because life is not always literal.

That's very true, I guess for all his denials of such, Alto is still hypertraditionalist and conservative japanese at the core. Now that you've raised the point it makes me reevaluate his actions quite a bit. If he's thinking with a 1925-vintage typical japanese convservative mindset and morals and expectations of behavior the way he acts makes a lot more sense.

Also, the "I won't believe it until I have proof" ideology has strengthened as the imagination of the western civilization continues to wither away.

Maybe I should start thinking about this with more of an eye to japanese drama than to western science fiction and drama plots.

Or we could have "The Hills" on Frontier.

MisaForever, speculation is *fun*!

I'd rather guess and be wrong than worry about shielding myself from disappointment.

If I was afraid of being disappointed, I wouldn't have a favorite driver in F1 (who isn't that bastard Lewis Hamilton).

Edited by RF-26AAC
Posted
  DeeBot said:
Well, I think that's sorta been true of Frontier as a whole. The pacing's been pretty fast, with a lot of rapid cutting, even episodes that don't move the plot anywhere. This hasn't been a series that spends a lot of time dwelling on, say, a shot of the WTF-1. I wish they'd linger more on some scenes, but I guess that's the reality of storytelling in the television medium.

This does worry me a little bit when it comes to episodes 24 and 25. I'm afraid they're going to blow their production budget on the mecha pr0n, like they've done twice already back in episodes 7 and 14. I mean, this is the finale and all. However, long action sequences eat up exposition time. I'm convinced we'll get all the answers, but maybe not in as much detail as I'd like. Then again, I always thought they did a wonderful job combining plot and action back in episode 27 of SDFM, so maybe it's not completely impossible. :)

I think you're right, we'll get all the answers but I don't think we're gonna be happy with way their given. I think there's going to be hurried expositions amid massive mecha battles. Things that should take time to explain, will be shouted back'n forth between missiles vollies and gun fire. I really think there's too much to finish off the entire series with just two episodes, at least with any real closure. This feels so much like the X-Files finale where nothing really was resolved, just the smoking man gets killed (I guess). I really think they wasted alot of time in the beginning episodes and now their trying to cram and ending down our throats with just two left. Unless they are hour long episodes, I think we're going to get shafted!! :angry:

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