VF-1's on early colonization fleets?

[Prime]

Just out of curiosity, Did any of the early colonization fleets ship out with VF-1s aboard? It seems they were still the main VF even after fleets started being sent out, yet I don't think I've ever seen them listed anywhere...

[RF-26AAC]

Just out of curiosity, Did any of the early colonization fleets ship out with VF-1s aboard? It seems they were still the main VF even after fleets started being sent out, yet I don't think I've ever seen them listed anywhere...

I'd like to imagine there were, or rather, Plus enhanced VF-1's... they appear in Mac 7 according to Mr. March's mecha manual IIRC

[007-vf1]

As far as I know They were already being replaced by vf-4, vf9,, vf14, vf 5000 and soon to come vf-11s soon after as the colonization fleets started leaving the solar system. . But the VF-1 were updated to VF-x types. There's not much known between 2012 and 2040 except for M3 game era.

I am just surprised the VF took an acelerated evolution during 2010 to 2015 and then after 2040s or so but not much development in between those 2 decades...

I know someone can fill in since I am not knowledgeable enough of the time lines...

Edited September 5, 2008 by 007-vf1

[RedWolf]

UN Spacy VFs that I seen

VF-1 Valkyrie, VF-4 Lightning III, VF-3000 Crusader, VF-5000 Star Mirage, VF-9 Cutlass,

VF-11 Thunderbolt, VF-14 Vampire even it’s Varauta variant, VF-17 Nightmare,

VF-171 Nightmare II, VF-19 Excalibur, VF-22 Strumvogel II, VF-171 Nightmare II, VF-25 Messaiah, VF-27

I'd put the VA-3 Invader, Variable Glaug and VB-6 Koenig Monster on a different category.

The Variable Glaug was originally a rogue Zentradi design incorporated for miclone use in UN Spacy.

There is also the unmanned Neo Glaug and the drone version of the VF-11.

The Compendium says there is a VF-5, VF-6, VF-7 but these were never show visually.

[Mr March]

I think VF-1 Valkyries may have been included in many colonization fleets, but they may not have been the "main variable fighters" of those fleets. There were only about 300+ VF-1 Valkyries that participated at the end of Space War I and it's likely most of the VF-1 units stationed on Earth were destroyed in the Zentradi annihilation.

Indeed, it appears that many VF-1 Valkyries eventually became civilian use vehicles. While Milia's VF-1J Valkyrie was combat worthy, she seemed to be a unique case. The other VF-1 Valkyries that appear in Macross 7 were civilian units painted in garish colors for display at a recruitment fair. The other units were seen again in civilian hands in Macross Dynamite 7, where a VF-1A Super was part of a husband and wife space whale biology team (Graham and Holly). THe other modified VT-1C units are specifically identified as civilian units.

The VF-4 Lightning III, as 007-vf1 has stated, seems to have been embraced enthusiastically by the UN Spacy. Mass production of the VF-1 ended only three years after Flashback 2012, while the VF-4 mass production continued for over a decade until 2022. A total of some 8,245 VF-4 Lightining III variable fighters were built, suggesting the fighter was produced in far greater numbers than the VF-1 Valkyrie ever did. Perhaps a few thousand VF-1 Valkyries did find service aboard the earliest colonization fleets, but with mass production ending so soon after the launch of the Megaroad-01 fleet, I think that says the colonization fleets were filled with mostly newer valkyries.

[Mechinyun]

I'd like to think they are out there. It would be cool to get a series following a early fleet with SW1 technology. Got me thinking though, fold technology seemingly let the Zentradai fold extremely far distances. Couldn't the fleets relay their position back to earth or whoever and have them relatively quick fold to that position?

Edited September 6, 2008 by Mechinyun

[JB0]

I'd like to think they are out there. It would be cool to get a series following a early fleet with SW1 technology. Got me thinking though, fold technology seemingly let the Zentradai fold extremely far distances. Couldn't the fleets relay their position back to earth or whoever and have them relatively quick fold to that position?

Problem is, a fold isn't instantaneous. Not even for the people inside the fold. And for those in real space, it takes even longer.

How long were Hikaru, Max, Misa, and Kakizaki gone when they got captured? 2 weeks? And from their perspective, it wasn't even long enough to start worrying about where their next meal was coming from.

If you're under attack, you need defenses NOW, not as soon as a carrier can be mobilized and make it through the fold lag.

[sketchley]

Check the TIAtS: Macross Plus Movie Edition: the VF-1 was used in the first exploration of Eden.

Now, this could be because the short range immigration fleet (SRIF) was only equipped with the VF-1. Or that the SRIF kept the VF-4 on combat patrol duty, and used the "older" VF-1 to do series exploration, once the military had given an all clear. It could also be that the VF-4 sucks when it comes to the flight characteristics needed when doing extensive exploration of a planet's surface.

As the topic seems to have drifted slightly off topic to the numbers of VF-1 produced: keep in mind that the compendium, despite (or because?) being an excellent resource, isn't the ultimate authority. It must be kept in mind that it is both a translation as well as being based off of incomplete sources. By this, I don't mean that Egan Loo has limited access, just that there isn't that much material nor that much specific information out there (period).

I also find it odd that the VF-1 wasn't continued to be manufactured. Why? Where did the VF-1X come from? What about the civilian versions? Yes, I feel that the information used in the compendium is from a dated article (perhaps produced around the time of the production of DYRL) that has never been updated by Kawamori, despite the appearance of numerous variants later in the timeline.

Perhaps it was only mass production, or even mass production for the military/main fighter that stopped in 2015. Civilian production, which BTW, are the main people behind the colonization missions, given the evidence that we have, most likely continued at a decent rate.

Let's also not forget that the VF-4 and VF-5000 used a bunch of parts from the VF-1. So, it's not that big of a stretch for production lines to switch from partial construction of the VF-1 (parts destined for use in other VFs) to full production. Automated facilities, such as the Factory Satellite and Three Stars also don't have to be extensively retooled. If anything, they have to be "dumbed down" to produce the lower tech VF-1!

[Prime]

I guess my question originates from the fact that the chronology says that the VF-4 didn't become the main VF for UN Spacy until 2020. Perhaps that refers mostly to Earth, and only the colony ships used VF-4s as their main units in earlier years?

[sucker4meltrans]

imo the VF-4 does look like space colony fleet fighter. its a heavy fighter with beam weapons for main armament. this fits well with a limited resource colony fleet. the vf-4 would be in space mostly and beam weapons would allow great endurance. the vf-1 is a multi role fighter. it has no real strength or weakness. the vf-1 also is a huge resource hog to be competitive with zentradi forces. vf-1s needed super/strike packs and reaction weapons, lots of micro missles and ammo for the gun pod. vf-4 reminds me of the vf-17/171 a variable fighter with a design for mostly fighter mode use.

[Talos]

Didn't only Skull and Iron Chief squadrons on the Megaroad get equipped with the VF-4 initially? That would imply to me that the rest of it's compliment was filled with VF-1s, since I don't see that whole ship and fleet only having two squadrons.

[sketchley]

Ah poo, forgot to add this earlier: the VF-1 is a multi-purpose fighter (as sucker4meltrans stated.) I remember reading somewhere that the VF-4 is an intereceptor. Therefore, it'd make sense to have multiple types of fighters on a colony mission (VF-4 Interceptors, multi-role VF-1, VT-1 trainers, VE-1 AWACS, etc.. Perhaps even the VC-1 for construction purposes. Though, I don't recollect ever having seen an actual start of production date for the VC-1...

[JB0]

imo the VF-4 does look like space colony fleet fighter. its a heavy fighter with beam weapons for main armament. this fits well with a limited resource colony fleet. the vf-4 would be in space mostly and beam weapons would allow great endurance. the vf-1 is a multi role fighter. it has no real strength or weakness. the vf-1 also is a huge resource hog to be competitive with zentradi forces. vf-1s needed super/strike packs and reaction weapons, lots of micro missles and ammo for the gun pod. vf-4 reminds me of the vf-17/171 a variable fighter with a design for mostly fighter mode use.

Speaking of limited resources...

The GBP turns the VF-1 into a cheap destroid, meaning your fleet doesn't need to lug around a bunch of largely useless destroids and spare parts in anticipation of the day they land and set up camp somewhere and start NEEDING infantry mecha. They can use GBP Valkyries in that role until they get destroid production up.

[d3v]

One other thing we have to remember is that the VF-4 is rather expensive, meaning that before the colonies had the option of getting cheaper VF-5000s and VF-9s, they probably did still field VF-1's when buying VF-4s was out of the question.

[sketchley]

Ah, but one must keep in mind the following:

VF-5000: (...) began (...) in 2011. (...) First flight 2018. Mass production of VF-5000 started 2020. Assumed the United Nations Forces' main fighter designation from the VF-4 (due to its lower costs) beginning in the later half of the 2020s until the VF-11 Thunderbolt's introduction. Mass production ends in 2029.

VF-9: Development began in 2018, and the first flight occurred in 2021. (...) Mass production began in 2023 and ended in 2029.

As I have understood it, this topic is asking about the very first colonization missions; the ones between 2012 and 2020. Even if we consider up until the 2025 (I'm guesstimating that's about the time the last Megaroad Class led colony fleet left), the majority of fighters would be the VF-4 and the VF-1. I don't think there would be an extensive use of the VF-5000 even when it was available, as the VF-5000 is primarily an atmospheric fighter, and colony missions are, well, generally not in an atmosphere until they've completed their mission, years? decades? later.

[d3v]

Ah, but one must keep in mind the following:

VF-5000: (...) began (...) in 2011. (...) First flight 2018. Mass production of VF-5000 started 2020. Assumed the United Nations Forces' main fighter designation from the VF-4 (due to its lower costs) beginning in the later half of the 2020s until the VF-11 Thunderbolt's introduction. Mass production ends in 2029.

VF-9: Development began in 2018, and the first flight occurred in 2021. (...) Mass production began in 2023 and ended in 2029.

Yet by the late 2010's, there's a serious rush to bring out lower cost VFs with the VF-5000 eventually becoming a mainline fighter (it was the VF-9 that was gobbled up by the colonies). The fact that to a certain extent the VF-5000 started replacing the VF-4 during the latter half of the 2020's could indicate that even for the fleets, there was demand for a cheaper fighter possibly pointing. Factor the fact that the VF-1 was continually updated (from the Block 6 controls up to the VF-1X variant) could mean that the demand for a lower cost fighter could mean that the VF-1 was used to bolster fighter numbers when not enough VF-4s could be brought along.