Macross Frontier Episode 22 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Zinjo]

So Alto and Luca got drafted to attack the Quarter, and Klan is staying behind to go guerrilla, 'cause, you know, she blends in so well . . .

I think they felt bound by their contracts to assist the military. Since they were training the NUNS on the new VF-171EX, it only makes sense they be given a couple to stop the commandeering of the Quarter. They'd have the best chance of surviving and engagement with the VF-25s.

Though, one thing that puzzle's me, is where is the pilot of the last VF-27?

Brera had two wingmen with him when he arrived and he and Grace both took one. Where's the last one?

[wolfx]

Sheryl and Alto....................???

^^

EP.22 1154

Alto had received S.M.S msg.

http://www.data.gov.cn/uploadme/me/macross...p/022/22000.jpg

EP.22 1412

Alto's wear...

http://www.data.gov.cn/uploadme/me/macross...p/022/22001.jpg

EP.22 1503

Alto's wear...

http://www.data.gov.cn/uploadme/me/macross...p/022/22002.jpg

SO, Alto is Sheryl's Alto now~~~

^^

So because Alto's hand is out of his jacket's sleeve, you concluded that he indeed had sex with Sheryl?

[Realist_Classic]

Sheryl and Alto....................???

^^

Ah, it looks like Alto took off his jacket at some point after consoling Sheryl. Implications, implications.

Sheryl-fans: DE-CULTURE!

Ranka-fans: NOOOOOOOOOooooooooo!

Edited September 5, 2008 by Realist_Classic

[wolfx]

Btw...

Rewatched the raw and noticed that Klan was sitting next to Michael Blanc's grave... resting on his tombstone when she got Cathy's text message. I read it and it clearly said "Michael Blanc, 2042 - 2059". Does anybody has a pic of that scene? It is clearly a confirmation that Michael is dead... No cyborg return or anything like it anymore...

Uhhh yeah your point? Its highly likely his body was never recovered and the grave marker is just ....a marker. I really doubt they will send scavenger teams to scan for dead bodies around space to put them for proper burial/recycling. I want to see his body before i completely write off him as dead. Even in Code Geass, someone has returned from the dead.... (again).

I'm not taking any chances with anime.

[MacrossCN]

Sheryl-fans: DE-CULTURE!

Ranka-fans: NOOOOOOOOOooooooooo!

HAHA~~

Yack Deculture!!!!!!

[Kronnang Dunn]

Uhhh yeah your point? Its highly likely his body was never recovered and the grave marker is just ....a marker. I really doubt they will send scavenger teams to scan for dead bodies around space to put them for proper burial/recycling. I want to see his body before i completely write off him as dead. Even in Code Geass, someone has returned from the dead.... (again).

I'm not taking any chances with anime.

Well, since he was using an Ex-Gear when he got sucked to space, I believe it would have been pretty easy to find it... Ex-Gears must have some sort of beacon on it (specially since they are used as ejection seats... even on these days those seats do have beacons). And it was a grave tombstone, not just a marker...

(Somebody post the pic to watch it closely...)

Edited September 5, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[VF-25 Messiah]

Rewatched the raw and noticed that Klan was sitting next to Michael Blanc's grave... resting on his tombstone when she got Cathy's text message. I read it and it clearly said "Michael Blanc, 2042 - 2059". Does anybody has a pic of that scene? It is clearly a confirmation that Michael is dead... No cyborg return or anything like it anymore...

Ask and ye shall receive.

Of course, don't actually think anyone's buried there. Doesn't frontier avoid burying people at all? Still think he's dead though.

[Kronnang Dunn]

Ask and ye shall receive.

Of course, don't actually think anyone's buried there. Doesn't frontier avoid burying people at all? Still think he's dead though.

Actually I remember that Ozma said in Episode 2 that S.M.S. members didn't get goverment burial ceremonies, graves or markers (remember what they made to Gilliam's body)... And that stone in the pic is clearly a tombstone in the Frontier graveyard. Ergo, is obvious that Klan was responsible for bringing Michael's body back and putting him in a grave (like his sister)...

Edited September 5, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[VF-25 Messiah]

Actually I remember that Ozma said in Episode 2 that S.M.S. members didn't get goverment burial ceremonies, graves or markers (remember what they made to Gilliam's body)... And that stone in the pic is clearly a tombstone in the Frontier graveyard. Ergo, is obvious that Klan was responsible for bringing Michael's body back and putting him in a grave (like his sister)...

Exactly. The body is used as bio fuel. Thus no body in the grave. A tombstone but no content. Just my opinion but I don't see anything that obviously disproves it. Doesn't change the fact that he's dead though.

Edited September 5, 2008 by VF-25 Messiah

[Windrider]

Great episode. Looks like everything running into full gear for the finale. What surprised me in this one was Sheryl's singing now creates fold waves. But unlike Ranka it doesn't seem to affect or attract Vajra. I wonder if Sheryl and Ranka singing in unison will actually cross the gap between Vajra and humanity and finally end the war peacefully.

It saddens me though that Sheryl is incurable from V-type virus and doesn't have much time left. It doesn't seem fair that she's getting the short end of the stick. Alto's and Luca's hatred for the Vajra have blinded them and seems to have reached a point where they're willing to attack even their own comrades.

When Leon attempted to assassinate Grace I knew it would be futile and will likely cost him dearly for it. Hopefully he gets a long, agonizing death. I wasn't expecting Grace to have her own VF or pilot one. But nonetheless she was really hawt in a flightsuit.

Lastly the planet which Brera and Ranka found was really the eye-catcher of the entire episode. I'm expecting it to be loaded with Vajra as well as other PC goodies. Did anyone notice the other cyber voices from episode 15?

Anyway, this episode was 2 thumbs up for me.

[Kronnang Dunn]

I believe that Alto is closer to Sheryl than Ranka now... wether or not he had sex with her (Has she just pulled a DYRL Misa?).

That's why Alto stayed on Frontier... For Sheryl...

Luca stayed for Nanase...

Klan stayed for both Alto and Luca... (in a good "protecting-the-friends-of-my-deceased-love" way)

Edited September 5, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[RedWolf]

And where did they get the idea from?

Perchance Gigile's ability to swallow whole planets?

Exactly how do you know for sure that Gigile didn't use fold quartz to initiate the reaction? It was never explained, we only saw that it happened. We went through this type of debate when trying to figure out the SDF-4 Global.

DE or MDE bombs were derived from Fold Quartz research.

Gigil didn't swallow a planet ala DE he started self destructing probably couldn't control all that super dimensional energy due to being both irrationally overprotective of Sivil and the excess energy due to Spiritia regeneration.

If it were a DE Fire Bomber wouldn't be able to protect themselves with Song energy.

PC 2865

* Development on powerful biological weapons based on the Zentradi, "Evil Series," begins. [Note: "Evil" pronounced as "Eh-vil."] Evil is the abbreviation of the Protoculture term for "advanced (Zentradi) all-enivron biological weapon." Trial production takes place on a scientifically advanced planet (the first planet of the star system later known as Varauta), but because of unresolvable problems with the weapons' power exceeding the fighting capability requirements, trial production is halted.

PC 2868

* On the [aforementioned] scientifically advanced planet, the existence of a sub-universe is confirmed. According to survey results, this sub-universe is abound with super high levels of extra-dimensional energy, and this energy is discovered to have the potential for application.The trial production of super dimension energy gates which can supply energy from the sub-universe is begun, and genetically engineered biological super dimension organs are developed. These biological super dimension organs are extremely compact, and they are expected to supply enormous amounts of energy.

* Because of power problems, the trial production begins implementing the technology from the terminated "Evil Series." No problems are uncovered in simulations.

* The internal conflicts within the Stellar Republic revives the development of the "Evil Series."

PC 2871

* On the [aforementioned] scientifically advanced planet, trial production of the "Evil Series" for final tests is begun. Seven Evil Series weapons of seven types including a highly mobile, humanoid "Sivil" for search-and-destroy functions and a super-scale, high-powered "Glavil" for fleet warfare are completed. The Evil Series tests are begun, but at the same time biological super dimension organs overload and extradimensional energy is released. The Evil Series' bodies are occupied by the spiritual energy life form from the sub-universe and thus creating, from the massive fighting capability of the Evil Series and the enormous potential of the spiritial energy, beings with extraordinary fighting ability and a coveting for life energy, "Spiritia." They covet Spiritia in order to continue existing as extra-dimensional beings in this universe. They begin invading the surrounding planets and systems using spaceships and weapons of people from the scientifically advanced planet that they brainwashed. (They later become known as the Supervision Army).

* Three months later, the internal conflicts of the Protoculture Stellar Republic are halted as efforts are devoted against the extradimensional energy beings occupying the Evil Series, dubbed "Protodeviln." However, over 30% of the Stellar Republic and several hundred systems are under Protodeviln control and the Spiritia-deprived people number several hundred billion. The Zentradi faction fight but, due to the prime directive "Do not interfere with Protoculture," are unable to fight effectively against the brainwashed Protoculture people under the control of the Protodeviln.

Now with Kawamori adding the fold quartz earings to Zero in the BD release one could reasonably surmise that it was something left by the PC survey team when the AFOS was left behind, thus indicating that fold quartz WAS indeed known to the PC long before humanity learned how it could be used.

In Macross Zero it was stated that the carbon dating around the Birdman in 10,000 years old.

There was an intial colonization mission that was lost almost 500,000 years ago but 10,000 years ago the Birdman arrived leading to the birth of the Mayan people.

If the Mayan legend that the Birdman was ordered to destroy humanity by the god Procacha (Protoculture?) but relented cutting its head off is based some what on fact and a woman called Rooy Waka which came from the Birdman became Rooy Kanu's wife. Then as of 10,000 years ago a Protoculture did return had kids with a native and returned back to the stars.

This bloodline became the Mayans or more specifically the Nomes.

[DarkReaper]

I just noticed that leon must be related to General Mcauliffe. Just look at the hat of his aid.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/rea...80905133556.jpg

[edit] Oh yeah and why is Grace still wearing her googles when in flight suit and obviously not having to keep up any appearances?[/edit]

Edited September 5, 2008 by DarkReaper

[wolfx]

Actually I remember that Ozma said in Episode 2 that S.M.S. members didn't get goverment burial ceremonies, graves or markers (remember what they made to Gilliam's body)... And that stone in the pic is clearly a tombstone in the Frontier graveyard. Ergo, is obvious that Klan was responsible for bringing Michael's body back and putting him in a grave (like his sister)...

Nope. No body seen = no body. Otherwise logically it would make for a very tear jerking funeral service amongst Michel's friends. Even Gilliam got one. Ergo, no body = MIA = still alive. And besides, officially Alto and co. are secretly in SMS because they are still students, so Michel deserves a civilian gravestone.

Exactly. The body is used as bio fuel. Thus no body in the grave. A tombstone but no content. Just my opinion but I don't see anything that obviously disproves it. Doesn't change the fact that he's dead though.

Oh ye of lil faith. Nothing disproves that he is still alive either. No body, no death.

[shinkirou]

Nope. No body seen = no body. Otherwise logically it would make for a very tear jerking funeral service amongst Michel's friends. Even Gilliam got one. Ergo, no body = MIA = still alive. And besides, officially Alto and co. are secretly in SMS because they are still students, so Michel deserves a civilian gravestone.

Oh ye of lil faith. Nothing disproves that he is still alive either. No body, no death.

for me, id rather have michel dead and forever immortalized by his great sacrifice XD

[VF-25 Messiah]

I think everyone arguing that Michel may be alive are setting themselves up for disappointment. Me? I'd rather not have a another Gamlin, even though I liked Michel as a character a lot.

[shinkirou]

I think everyone arguing that Michel may be alive are setting themselves up for disappointment. Me? I'd rather not have a another Gamlin, even though I liked Michel as a character a lot.

i share the same sentiments as you XD

mecha shows this year often pulled that trick and I say to MF: DO NOT FOLLOW THE BANDWAGON!!! XD

let the heroes rest for they have done enough

[sketchley]

Terms of weapons and armour, Ozuma has the advantage. In terms of speed and manueverability, Alto has the advantage. In terms of wisdom and experience, Ozuma has the advantage. In terms of youthful energy and reaction speeds, Alto has the advantage.

Going back to just the vehicles, it's been written somewhere (don't ask) that the Full Armour VF-25 is equal in speed to the base VF-25. Of course a Super parts tricked out VF-171 should be going faster than a base VF-25. More manueverable? The Super parts version is. At the very least, it has less mass to shove around.

Let's also not forget that Ozuma first attempted to knock some sense into Alto by blinding him in the dust and debris from a clump of destroyed asteroids.

Therefore, Alto's aim was off (POSSIBLY because he's in an unfamiliar fighter using unfamiliar weapons), and Ozuma hit exactly where he intended to hit.

Actually in terms of gear, I'd say Ozma has the advantage, but Alto is capable of making a lesser aircraft at least keep up with the VF-25 and even score a few hits.

I doubt either were shooting to kill, if they were one would be dead.

Edited September 5, 2008 by sketchley

[grss1982]

Sheryl and Alto....................???

^^

EP.22 1154

Alto had received S.M.S msg.

http://www.data.gov.cn/uploadme/me/macross...p/022/22000.jpg

EP.22 1412

Alto's wear...

http://www.data.gov.cn/uploadme/me/macross...p/022/22001.jpg

EP.22 1503

Alto's wear...

http://www.data.gov.cn/uploadme/me/macross...p/022/22002.jpg

SO, Alto is Sheryl's Alto now~~~

^^

Does this imply that Luca, Alto or Klan are only "acting out" their parts in trying to stop Qaurter from leaving. Are you implying that the three or one or two of them are like the "stay behind" troops of SMS?

I believe he decided to merge his forces with those of Leon's. In fact, Leon phoned Bilrer at the begining of the episode (just before the opening).

BTW....Did Mr. Bilrer know or did he give his blessing to Capt. Wilder in hi-jacking the Qaurter?

[VF-25 Messiah]

BTW....Did Mr. Bilrer know or did he give his blessing to Capt. Wilder in hi-jacking the Qaurter?

Nothing is said or done to imply that Bilrer knew or gave his blessing about the Quarter going rogue.

[DeeBot]

Some points...

I find the cheers of the AxS faction to be a bit amusing, since I've had a pet theory going for some time that Sheryl might bite it well before the final episode. Hey, if it happened to Michael... the next episode, in fact, would be a terrific time to bump Sheryl off.

My inclination that it was probably just a kiss, just from the perceived time lag. I find it hard to believe that Alto could have scrambled to go after the Quarter if he'd spent any significant time with Sheryl.

Concerning the planet, perhaps the Birdman flew back to the PC home world, then spawned the Vajra. I'm inclined to believe the Vajra are a relatively recent phenomena, in galactic terms, since they apparently replicate like mad and would undoubtedly have overrun the galaxy by now if they dated back to the end of the PC civilization.

Possible culture shock may involve some sort of PC artifact on that planet, which would stun Frontier with its revelations. After all, consider how hate-filled and war-like the Frontier fleet has become. In a way, they've lost the culture that kept them human (almost literally, in the sense of Ranka flying off), and like the original Zentradi, will need to be re-cultured to return to peace and harmony with the Vajra (which is where this all seems to be heading, in true Macross fashion).

[yaiba]

Btw... More spirals...

[yaiba]

So because Alto's hand is out of his jacket's sleeve, you concluded that he indeed had sex with Sheryl?

I doubt Alto sexed Sheryl as well.

a) He's a prude

b) I doubt he would know what to do with a woman even if she served herself up naked with a strategically placed ribbon

c) Sheryl wouldn't risk infecting him with the virus

[MacrossCN]

EP22, 2106

[Swampstorm]

-Considering the circumstances, AltoxSheryl doesn't feel right. I'm not a Ranka fan. And we'll get to her issue in a minute. I'm not a fan of pity or sorrow-type relationships. I do wish, if Alto made a choice, it would have been if he didn't know. Knowing someone is going to die or not be around changes the circumstances a lot. If Alto made this choice without this fact, I would agree with it more. But in light of Alto finding out now, AltoxSheryl just does not work.

-Ranka said her goodbyes. RankaxAlto doesn't have the weight that it could have. She gave up and made her choice. She probably regrets it under the circumstances, but she's going with her gut (no pun intended) and she's sticking to it. She stays at neutral till the series ends.

-AltoxNobody works.

-Which brings us to the 3rd point of this triangle. If Alto uses Ranka to save Sheryl, he's no better than Mishima and Luca. But if he chooses Ranka, then he's a jerk. Unless Sheryl dies and some time passes. Ozma is right. Alto needs to figure it all out. Alto needs to answer the "Why?" in the question. Ozma does for the people he loves. Alto needs to figure this out himself and find his own path or fall to the dark side you will.

How you interpret Alto's actions depend on what you percieve to be the "cause" of those actions. If you believe that Alto had no prior attachment to Sheryl before this scene, then you would probably tend to interpret his actions as being driven by the situation. On the other hand, if you recognize that the episodes leading up to this one trace the gradual development of Alto's feelings for both girls, then this episode does nothing more than force a revelation on Alto's part by drawing out feelings that were already there. Romance doesn't spring out of thin air.

It may be helpful to compare this episode with episode nineteen, wherein Alto was unaware of Sheryl's condition. Sheryl tries to make her decision to quit singing into a minor issue by cooking up a story, but Alto still forces the issue and tries to convince her to sing again. Sheryl didn't ask for his help, nor did she give any indication that it was even a problem. The reason that Alto still brings the issue up again and again is because it matters to him.

One of the reasons why the scene from this episode is so moving is because so much of the characters feelings are carried out through body language. After Sheryl tries to cover up her problems and pretend that everything is fine, everything from Alto's expression to his intonation shows that he's clearly in a great deal of pain. Pity carries a certain amount of detatchment - contrast Alto's reaction with Michael and Klan's reaction when they found out the exact same thing four episodes ago. All four of them are friends, but the reactions of each of the characters is widely different.

I think you're on the mark with regards to the scene not "feeling right", in that there are still a lot of unresolved issues hovering in the air. While it's clear that Alto has strong feelings for Sheryl, he hasn't defined for himself what those feelings are and what he intends to do with them. His initial reaction was to try to protect her, by offering Sheryl the chance to give up the burden of her responsibilities, but she rejects that outright. By this point, Sheryl has essentially given up on herself, choosing to focus on helping others with what little time she has left (as shown through her charity efforts and her rememberance of the dead during this episode). That's what lead in to the hug - Sheryl was pushing him away with her words, so he strongly felt the need to reach out and make some sort of a connection with her. By forcing herself to take up the responsibility that Ranka left behind, Sheryl forces Alto into a situation where at best he can try to support her from the sidelines.

That's part of the reason why Alto needs to stop and evaluate what he really wants, as Ozma suggested. If he's content with things as they are, then he can continue to walk along the path that he's been walking. But if he wants something more from either girl, he's gotta go out and fight for it.

[Valkyrie addict]

damn, like another poster said way back..

if Sheryl must die...then Alto has to die too... I don't hate Ranka, but seriously Ranka and Alto just don't make any sense together

[Valkyrie addict]

OMG Kesphry, I knew that in that missile barrage Alto shoot in the beginning we might get some beercan missile but this is priceless, haaha

[yaiba]

I think you're on the mark with regards to the scene not "feeling right", in that there are still a lot of unresolved issues hovering in the air. While it's clear that Alto has strong feelings for Sheryl, he hasn't defined for himself what those feelings are and what he intends to do with them.

They lingered on the picture of Alto's mother in that scene. I get the feeling that Alto may have been in a similar situation before. There may be more to his rebelliion against his father than not wanting to be a kabuki actor.

[VF-25 Messiah]

damn, like another poster said way back..

if Sheryl must die...then Alto has to die too... I don't hate Ranka, but seriously Ranka and Alto just don't make any sense together

My guess is Sheryl dies, and Alto and Ranka go their sepperate ways. Alto will most assuredly live though.

[RedWolf]

Nothing is said or done to imply that Bilrer knew or gave his blessing about the Quarter going rogue.

Well Bilrer doesn't have to say it verbally.

Something tells me that the assasination plot being leaked to Cathy and Ozma was his doing.

How many hotdog stand vendors do you know sells conspiracy plans evidence.

If I was Bilrer and some wannabee dictator wanted to steal my company I'd lay contigency plans as a big Frak You.

Leon tried to Grace who do think is next on his list?

[Swampstorm]

They lingered on the picture of Alto's mother in that scene. I get the feeling that Alto may have been in a similar situation before. There may be more to his rebelliion against his father than not wanting to be a kabuki actor.

Well, as they panned to the photo, Alto delivered that line about how Sheryl didn't need to be strong and continue singing. In that sense, he was trying to approach the situation the same way as he did his mother. What he's offering her is a chance to give up her burdens and depend entirely on his support. But it's also important to note the intensity with which Sheryl rejected that offer in the very same shot. By this point, she's completely focused outside of herself and towards the duty she has towards the people of Frontier. She forces the realization that the situation is different - which lead Alto to decide to try to support her from the sidelines as she continued her work.

I think the purpose of the recurring parallel that's being made here is that Alto isn't entirely helpless anymore (in contrast with how he was then); his experiences through the series have strengthened him to the point where he can take charge of his own destiny. It's just a question of deciding what he really wants to do, and then throwing himself into it.

[Final Vegeta]

The official explanation of the UN Wars "just stopped" seems a bit trite and not very plausible considering mankind's ambitious and greedy nature.

Technically, apart from the people in the SDF-1, there were few survivors after the Zentradi bombarded the Earth. Despite this, the Anti-UN did not cease to exist, you can still find them in videogames. They even developed new mecha.

FV

[flabortast]

Am I the only one who thinks Briler isn't really a villain? He is thought as a threat by the villains (Grace, Leon and to a lesser extent Luca).

[MacrossCN]

DE or MDE bombs were derived from Fold Quartz research.

BTW

It is not MDE bombs.

It is MD Eater(MDイーター), it's mean is Mini Dimension Eater(ディメンション・イーター)

Edited September 5, 2008 by kresphy

[Final Vegeta]

Am I the only one who thinks Briler isn't really a villain?

If you watch Kawamori's anime, he appears to be the former friend type of villain. See: Macross Plus' Guld, Escaflowne's Folken, Aquarion's Toma.

FV