mike_s_6 Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 Which kinds of remind me the ambiguity between Myung and Guld in Mac + too. The camera pan off when they held each others hand. Ah well, might be similar, Guld beds the girls, he dies and Isamu got her instead. So, Alto may like face the axe too, ha!ha!ha! Actually given that parallel, Sheryl gets the axe *__* Sheryl = Guld Alto = Myung Ranka = Isamu Wow, I can't believe I put that equation sign between Ranka and Isamu, personally that'd be one uninteresting character and one very interesting character respectively OT: I just remembered that Macross Plus line that had me laughing on my desk, the one where Isamu mentions the number 21.
Zinjo Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 (edited) No DE weapons. It was never said the Protoculture developed DE just Reaction Weapons. It is likely this world's Protoculture inhabitants died when the Protodevlin went sucking the lifeforce out of the galaxy. Remember the Protoculture never wanted to dirty their hands that is why they created the Zentradi. But the homeworld could be off limits in their civil war. Then explain how Gigile destroyed Rax? The destruction affect is extremely similar to what Grace did on Galia IV, except Gigile's was total destruction, not just a chunk. The PD were living weapons, the pinacle of PC technology. So was Glipernich to an extent. The PC were never totally wiped out. The majority of them were during the post PD war, but no mention is made that ALL were wiped out. The PC were part of the SA thus they did dirty their hands, although not by their own will. Don't confuse the PC Civil War with the first PD war. The EVIL series were created to end the Civil war and after the PD were imprisoned the war continued with the Zentreadi. With the giants having no limitations against attacking their masters the PC were no longer safe from their own army or the SA. They had lost control of their army and their civilization paid the price. All OTEC is reverse engineered from PC tech, thus a weapon as advanced as the Dimension Eater is not something humanity is capable of imagining on its own, no matter how smart the scientists are. It is my assertion that the DE is a product of the reports from the second PD war with the Mac 7 fleet. Edited September 5, 2008 by Zinjo
Keith Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 I think u guys are looking too hard into the spiral things. I for one hope that isn't THE protoculture planet though. For 25 years SK has avoided the mystery which is the protoculture and to suddenly give it to us in the final 4 episodes of Frontier is kinda.....anti-climatic. Actually, it makes a lot of sense that it would be the Protoculture homeworld. Where wlse would the AFOS take Sara 7 Shin" We know that from Macross 7 & Zero, the Protoculture left contingencies in place depending on the direction of human evolution. In Zero we have the AFOS to whipe everyone out of existence should humans turn warlike, and in 7 we have the Lux ruins which only become active if a human/Zentradi hybrid enters (i.e. humans turn out to be peaceful, and succeed in doing what the PC couldn't, tame the Zentradi). But if you mix Humans/Zentradi/Evil/Ginga Kujira, you'd get something an aweful lot like the Vajra. Perhaps they're the Protoculture's final solution for peaceful life in the universe. What better place to birth such life than the start of all life to begin with? That they only respond to emotions through song definately speaks volumes.
sdf2501 Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 They were posted at the tail end of the News Thread III, and (I believe) in the MacrossF Bugs thread. I know for a fact that a comparison shot was posted here, but I can't find it any more. The second-to-last page in News Thread III has the original DVD shot. If you Google for Macross zero blu-ray earrings, one of the first hits will have the altered image that appears on the Blu-ray release with the earrings added in.
wolfx Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 And I'm kind of confused on how Luca and Alto could be broadcasting Skull 3 & 4's IFF if they weren't in their VF-25s? I thought IFF signals were tied to the hardware, and in this case their fighters? Or are they tied into their SMS flight suits (which makes no sense to me, but what do I know)? Probably IFFs can be tied to their EX-GEARs as ppl said which is a form of personal identification made easy for everyone. The personal callsign can be general across all radars but the IFF signal to determine "friend or foe" can be different. That said i think their IFF signal was of "foes" on the Quarter. Doubtful this is the PC homeworld. A world affected by the PC perhaps, a forward base, perhaps, but not the homeworld or rather, central government world. I suspect that world was one of the first casualties of the Zentreadi / SA residual war and considering Dimension Eater technology existed back in the ancient times, it may very well have been destroyed like Rax was. At best, I'd expect that whatever remnants of the PC still exist are scattered throughout the galaxy and are well hidden from any outside contact and they want to keep it that way. The cloud formation definitely seems to indicate the PC insignia found on both the birdman and the Vajra. The insignia in DYRL could be considered an "artistic" interpretation of a symbol treated as top secret by the government and not generally known to the populace. The UNG would have certainly kept that information confidential as to avoid anyone knowingly stumbling upon an ancient PC facility. Kawamori isn't going to give up the PC enigma that easily! I really really hope so. From Grace's closing words, it would seem to be the origin of the Vajra or at least where the vajra are controlled by a giant hive Overmind. The queen we have seen so far is just a "Cerebrate" and Ranka happens to be one of them.....kind of. Anyway I do hope they solve the mystery of Zero and reveal what the APHOS really is and why it cut its own head (ejected?).
Gubaba Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 I really really hope so. From Grace's closing words, it would seem to be the origin of the Vajra or at least where the vajra are controlled by a giant hive Overmind. The queen we have seen so far is just a "Cerebrate" and Ranka happens to be one of them.....kind of. Anyway I do hope they solve the mystery of Zero and reveal what the APHOS really is and why it cut its own head (ejected?). While I certainly HOPE we'll get some answers regarding Shin, Sara, and the Bird Human (not to mention the Protoculture, the Supervision Army, the whereabouts of Hikaru, Misa, and Minmay, who finally ended up with Mylene, what exactly the Zolans are, where the SDF-1's fold drive disappeared to, and what the EXACT definition of "deculture" is), I'm not holding my breath... Remember when members here more or less convinced themselves that the Macross would HAVE to turn up at the of MacZero...and then were disappointed when it didn't? I think if you don't expect Frontier to be the be-all, end-all grand climax of all things Macross, you'll like the last episode better.
sucker4meltrans Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 how could the macross show up at the end of zero? it wasn't finished during the time of that conflict.
cyde01 Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 Remember when members here more or less convinced themselves that the Macross would HAVE to turn up at the of MacZero...and then were disappointed when it didn't? yeah, and remember when the wtf-1 HAD to be the sdf-1? it's the vajra homeworld. i wouldn't read into it too much more than that until we have more info..
Gubaba Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 how could the macross show up at the end of zero? it wasn't finished during the time of that conflict. I dunno...but that's what happened. (And you may be able to look them up...I'm not sure if the MacZero episode discussions are on this board, or on the old one.) Some people thought it would be the Macross. Some thought that Hikaru would show up (and, to be fair, there was a glitch at the official MacZero website that made that seem like a distinct possibility). Others figured the VF-1 would be rolled out for the final episode and pwn everyobdy else. Still others said that since it's a PREQUEL, the story MUST tie in to SDFM at some point. None of this was promised or even hinted at by Kawamori. But still, many people here worked out the ending that they wanted to see, half-convinced themselves that that's what would happen, and felt cheated when it didn't. I foresee something similar happening with the end of Frontier if we're not careful... There may be no Birdman. There may be no Protoculture (ruins or otherwise). There may be no Shin or Sara. And I'm almost positive there will be no announcement of "season 2." And I'm SURE there will be no last-minute appearance by the Megaroad-01. Expecting any of these things could be detrimental to one's enjoyment of the series finale. Just sayin'.
RedWolf Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 Then explain how Gigile destroyed Rax? The destruction affect is extremely similar to what Grace did on Galia IV, except Gigile's was total destruction, not just a chunk. The PD were living weapons, the pinacle of PC technology. So was Glipernich to an extent. All OTEC is reverse engineered from PC tech, thus a weapon as advanced as the Dimension Eater is not something humanity is capable of imagining on its own, no matter how smart the scientists are. It is my assertion that the DE is a product of the reports from the second PD war with the Mac 7 fleet. The Evil Series have Super Dimensional organs not Fold Quartz. The same energy used in the Macross cannons. These organs draw energy from an alternate dimension that is how the Protodevlin took over the Evil series. Dimension Eaters as explained by Grace are derived from Fold Quartz. Apparently she and LAI found another use for Fold Quartz other than bypassing Fold Dislocations and energy requirements for travel and communication. Don't confuse the PC Civil War with the first PD war. The EVIL series were created to end the Civil war and after the PD were imprisoned the war continued with the Zentreadi. With the giants having no limitations against attacking their masters the PC were no longer safe from their own army or the SA. They had lost control of their army and their civilization paid the price. Who said I did? Your the one who is confused. I know the PC civil war and the Protodevlin Holocaust that followed because of weapons escalation. Don't put words on anybody else's mouth that they did not say. It is too presumptuous.
tankf77 Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 While I certainly HOPE we'll get some answers regarding Shin, Sara, and the Bird Human (not to mention the Protoculture, the Supervision Army, the whereabouts of Hikaru, Misa, and Minmay, who finally ended up with Mylene, what exactly the Zolans are, where the SDF-1's fold drive disappeared to, and what the EXACT definition of "deculture" is), I'm not holding my breath... Remember when members here more or less convinced themselves that the Macross would HAVE to turn up at the of MacZero...and then were disappointed when it didn't? I think if you don't expect Frontier to be the be-all, end-all grand climax of all things Macross, you'll like the last episode better. Hey, who knows SK may draw a few ideas from Heroic Age anime? The protoculture "left" this galaxy and left the vajra to "attend" to their business? Perhaps there is a wormhole/gate at this planet that Grace and co. knows and desperately wants to find? Perhaps Shin and Sara and the missing Megaroad 1 are actually in another part of the galaxy? ha!ha!ha! "Ducks from rotten eggs being thrown at!"
jenius Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 how could the macross show up at the end of zero? it wasn't finished during the time of that conflict. THere was also rampant speculation the VF-1 would show up, a Low Vis in particular to canonize Yamato's paint scheme (shut up, no one wants to hear it was Bandai who was helping pay for the show). It would have been easy to have either show up in reality. The SDF-1 wouldn't necessarily have to be complete. Here's one way of doing it: Scene: Shin and Roy talking on a carrier: Shin: "The VF-0 is amazing. Perhaps this war is coming to an end." Roy: "This is just the beginning, a test bed for the REAL fighter in development" (cut to image of a VF-1 fighter taking off on some desolate airstrip, perhaps with some obvious testing mechanisms. Return to two pilots talking) Shin: "Then the war must be coming to an end." Roy: "Regardless of what happens here, we have the upper hand. The alien spaceship is within our territory and before long we'll have a technological advantage the Anti-UN can not compete with." (cut to image of the SDF-1 under construction on South Ataria).
sucker4meltrans Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 ah yes but that conversation would have only fitted at the end after the conflict was over. unfortunately shin tripped the light fantastic and disappeared with sara.
jenius Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 Yeah, in that particular example you're probably right but I think it makes it clear how easy it could have been to wedge in just about anything. All you really need to do (as a director) is include a scene of Roy looking away and switch to a shot of what he might be thinking of (SDF-1, VF-1, hot scantily clad women, etc.).
weixing Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 Hi, All I find is information on v-type ATPases, which has nothing to do with viruses. The closest thing in viruses would be those that have a v-type domain, In this case v = variable. This does play a role in viral susceptibility, but I don't think that it is what the "v" in the v-type virus stands for. May be the "V" mean Vajra?? Anyway, Ranka also had this virus in her body as shown in past episode and she is perfectly ok. Hmm... may be if her body adapted to the virus, she won't die and will have the same ability as Ranka... Can't wait for the sub. Have a nice day.
grss1982 Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 I'm a bit confused, but did Ozma in the VF-25S pwn Alto in an upgraded VF-171? OR where they evenly matched?
Zinjo Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 (edited) Found it. Original Scene: Blue Ray Retcon: Edited September 5, 2008 by Zinjo
VF-25 Messiah Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 (edited) I'm a bit confused, but did Ozma in the VF-25S pwn Alto in an upgraded VF-171? OR where they evenly matched? They both got a hit in, but I thought Ozma's looked like the bigger hit. Alto scraped the top of Ozma's armour pack while Ozma got a good hit in the shoulder area of Altos VF-171EX Also I think that Alto was shooting to kill (He was firing at Ozma a whole lot at least), while Ozma just shot once to incapacitate Altos fighter. (It's the only time he fires in their entire matchup). Ozma then comments "You've gotten better". So yeah, this one goes to Ozma. Edited September 5, 2008 by VF-25 Messiah
SkullLeaderVF-X Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 (edited) I dunno...but that's what happened. (And you may be able to look them up...I'm not sure if the MacZero episode discussions are on this board, or on the old one.) Some people thought it would be the Macross. Some thought that Hikaru would show up (and, to be fair, there was a glitch at the official MacZero website that made that seem like a distinct possibility). Others figured the VF-1 would be rolled out for the final episode and pwn everyobdy else. Still others said that since it's a PREQUEL, the story MUST tie in to SDFM at some point. None of this was promised or even hinted at by Kawamori. But still, many people here worked out the ending that they wanted to see, half-convinced themselves that that's what would happen, and felt cheated when it didn't. I foresee something similar happening with the end of Frontier if we're not careful... There may be no Birdman. There may be no Protoculture (ruins or otherwise). There may be no Shin or Sara. And I'm almost positive there will be no announcement of "season 2." And I'm SURE there will be no last-minute appearance by the Megaroad-01. Expecting any of these things could be detrimental to one's enjoyment of the series finale. Just sayin'. I agree, the one thing I'v learned about Macross, is that not everything pans out the way you want/like/invisioned.I don't expect any of the thing you just said right now are going to happen. They might, but thats as likly as Hikaru and Misa, coming out of a fold aboard the Alus, luanching a Minmay and Ishtar attack on the Vajra. Veeery unlikly. 'Am going to do what I do best. Sit on my ass, and wait for this ride to end, then I will look back and say "Damn, it was fun, but ended way to fast." I will probly bitch and moan, about it, but hell, thats because I love it and want it to be perfect to my standards (again, something that wont happen) Edited September 5, 2008 by SkullLeaderVF-X
Zinjo Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 They both got a hit in, but I thought Ozma's looked like the bigger hit. Alto scraped the top of Ozma's armour pack while Ozma got a good hit in the shoulder area of Altos VF-17GX (believe that's what the new model is called). Ozma comments "You've gotten better" though. No doubt the VF-25 is superior however, Alto is a gifted natural pilot so being able to maximize the capabilities of the VF-171EX is no surprise. Keep in mind he knows what the VF-25 is capable of and can compensate for it in the VF-171, unlike the NUNS regulars.
Zinjo Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 THere was also rampant speculation the VF-1 would show up, a Low Vis in particular to canonize Yamato's paint scheme (shut up, no one wants to hear it was Bandai who was helping pay for the show). It would have been easy to have either show up in reality. The SDF-1 wouldn't necessarily have to be complete. Here's one way of doing it: Scene: Shin and Roy talking on a carrier: Shin: "The VF-0 is amazing. Perhaps this war is coming to an end." Roy: "This is just the beginning, a test bed for the REAL fighter in development" (cut to image of a VF-1 fighter taking off on some desolate airstrip, perhaps with some obvious testing mechanisms. Return to two pilots talking) Shin: "Then the war must be coming to an end." Roy: "Regardless of what happens here, we have the upper hand. The alien spaceship is within our territory and before long we'll have a technological advantage the Anti-UN can not compete with." (cut to image of the SDF-1 under construction on South Ataria). I still think there is a story to be told between the events of Zero and SDFM, Since the AUN has matured into an "alliance" (retcon, since it was originally described as a terrorist group way back in the day) and they took the time and resources to develop two variable fighting craft (Octo and SV-51) I find it hard to believe that the events of Mayan Island would be the end to the hostilities. Granted, it definitely looks like some sort of secret (quiet) war, however it is a hot one. The official explanation of the UN Wars "just stopped" seems a bit trite and not very plausible considering mankind's ambitious and greedy nature.
wolfx Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 I'm a bit confused, but did Ozma in the VF-25S pwn Alto in an upgraded VF-171? OR where they evenly matched? Evenly matched and seems each other were not aiming to kill each other.
VF-25 Messiah Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 (edited) Evenly matched and seems each other were not aiming to kill each other. I disagree, but that could just be because I'm an unabashed GARma Lee fan. I could certainly see this being the case though. Edited September 5, 2008 by VF-25 Messiah
SkullLeaderVF-X Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 Evenly matched and seems each other were not aiming to kill each other. I just watched the episode again, and wanted to know if anybody knows the name of the ending song, and when/if theres going to bea 2nd ost for MF. Theres so many songs i want and cant get.
VF-25 Messiah Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 (edited) I just watched the episode again, and wanted to know if anybody knows the name of the ending song, and when/if theres going to bea 2nd ost for MF. Theres so many songs i want and cant get. Northern Cross. Same title as the episode title. A pattern that's been used since episode 19. Makes me wonder if the pattern's gonna break next week or are they going to whip out a new song called "True begin?" Edited September 5, 2008 by VF-25 Messiah
grss1982 Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 NEED SUBS NOW - HULK SMASHHHHH Great episode!! Nice Avatar Mechinyun. I gather you're a fan of Grace's Hopes & Dreams? They both got a hit in, but I thought Ozma's looked like the bigger hit. Alto scraped the top of Ozma's armour pack while Ozma got a good hit in the shoulder area of Altos VF-171EX Also I think that Alto was shooting to kill (He was firing at Ozma a whole lot at least), while Ozma just shot once to incapacitate Altos fighter. (It's the only time he fires in their entire matchup). Ozma then comments "You've gotten better". So yeah, this one goes to Ozma. No doubt the VF-25 is superior however, Alto is a gifted natural pilot so being able to maximize the capabilities of the VF-171EX is no surprise. Keep in mind he knows what the VF-25 is capable of and can compensate for it in the VF-171, unlike the NUNS regulars. Evenly matched and seems each other were not aiming to kill each other. Its getting more confusing. wolfx says evenly matched, while Zinjo seems to say that Alto had an advantage, and VF-25 Messiah says Ozma. Must WAIT for subs.
SkullLeaderVF-X Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 (edited) Northern Cross. Same title as the episode title. A pattern that's been used since episode 19. Makes me wonder if the pattern's gonna break next week or are they going to whip out a new song called "True begin?" Thank you good sir. Edited September 5, 2008 by SkullLeaderVF-X
wolfx Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 Its getting more confusing. wolfx says evenly matched, while Zinjo seems to say that Alto had an advantage, and VF-25 Messiah says Ozma. Must WAIT for subs. Let me rephrase. I thought that Ozma was cutting Alto slack and wasn't fighting seriously while Alto gave it his all to fight "sempai". As someone said, Ozma only fired one shot throughout the fight and it hit Alto in the shoulder. In hindsight Alto might or might not be shooting to kill but Ozma definately isn't given his skill but also underestimated Alto because he got hit on the fastpacks as well. And of course there's the issue on performance of VF-117EX vs VF-25 Full Armored......
VF-25 Messiah Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 Thank you good sir. Why you are quite welcome, Sir. Oh and if you feel you cannot await the release of the much anticipated second OST, I am happy to inform you that the song in question may be found on the "Lion" single which is out now.
Zinjo Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 The Evil Series have Super Dimensional organs not Fold Quartz. The same energy used in the Macross cannons. These organs draw energy from an alternate dimension that is how the Protodevlin took over the Evil series. Dimension Eaters as explained by Grace are derived from Fold Quartz. Apparently she and LAI found another use for Fold Quartz other than bypassing Fold Dislocations and energy requirements for travel and communication. And where did they get the idea from? Perchance Gigile's ability to swallow whole planets? Exactly how do you know for sure that Gigile didn't use fold quartz to initiate the reaction? It was never explained, we only saw that it happened. We went through this type of debate when trying to figure out the SDF-4 Global. Now with Kawamori adding the fold quartz earings to Zero in the BD release one could reasonably surmise that it was something left by the PC survey team when the AFOS was left behind, thus indicating that fold quartz WAS indeed known to the PC long before humanity learned how it could be used. As a matter of fact you made the point yourself: Also note the Blue Ray version of Macross Zero Sheryl's earrings belonged to Mao. It was with the picture of her father and mother. The fold quartz earring could have been passed from one generation to the next originating from the original Birdman pilot. The carbon dating around the corals surrounding Aphos suggests the Birdman has been there 10,000 years. If you do the math, the compendium's timeline would put the ear rings (or rather the quartz) closer to about 497,000 years as that was approximately when the PC survey ship stopped at Earth. At that time, by your own conclusion the PC knew of Fold Quartz. Who said I did? Your the one who is confused. I know the PC civil war and the Protodevlin Holocaust that followed because of weapons escalation. Don't put words on anybody else's mouth that they did not say. It is too presumptuous. I've never needed to before and have no intention of starting now.... It is likely this world's Protoculture inhabitants died when the Protodevlin went sucking the lifeforce out of the galaxy. According to the compendium after 9 months only 85% of the PC are wiped out due to the PD war. A year afterward the PD are sealed. 3 years after that the PC loose total control of the Zentreadi and 25 years after that the Zentreadi / SA war begins. 2000 years after that all but outposts, colonization fleets, colony clusters and worlds at the fringes of PC space are wiped out. Out of the billions of PC only a small number appear to remain in pockets around the galaxy. Now that isn't to say that if this is a PC world, they weren't victims of the PD war (collateral damage so to speak). However if they did create the Vajra out of the indigenous life (or grow them entirely new as weapons), the Vajra by their very design appear to be more tool like. Similar to Luca's ghosts than the sentient thinking Zentreadi. More like a product of a race who had been twice burned by "thinking" weaponry. Yet we can't entirely rule out humanity playing PC and the Galaxy creating these weapons. My only skeptisism of this notion is that the Vajra control systems seems far too advanced even for the Galaxy's techno addicts... Actually I did err in the sense I didn't mean the civil war, but the PD war and the subsequent Zent / SA war. However that is ultimately not relevant to my point. But the homeworld could be off limits in their civil war. That makes the most sense, considering the Zentreadi's "Prime Directive" was not to interfere with the PC and with homeworlds being populated by PC they wouldn't touch them.
MacrossCN Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 (edited) Sheryl and Alto....................??? ^^ EP.22 1154 Alto had received S.M.S msg. http://www.data.gov.cn/uploadme/me/macross...p/022/22000.jpg EP.22 1412 Alto's wear... http://www.data.gov.cn/uploadme/me/macross...p/022/22001.jpg EP.22 1503 Alto's wear... http://www.data.gov.cn/uploadme/me/macross...p/022/22002.jpg SO, Alto is Sheryl's Alto now~~~ ^^ Edited September 5, 2008 by kresphy
HMP_Goose Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 So Alto and Luca got drafted to attack the Quarter, and Klan is staying behind to go guerrilla, 'cause, you know, she blends in so well . . . Is the SMS bossman even alive? Did we see him get in a Glaug and tangle with the Varja invasion? What are the mercs doing? Did someone decide their deal with with Glass, and so it was over? Where do you run to when you turn pirate like this?
Zinjo Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 Its getting more confusing. wolfx says evenly matched, while Zinjo seems to say that Alto had an advantage, and VF-25 Messiah says Ozma. Must WAIT for subs. Actually in terms of gear, I'd say Ozma has the advantage, but Alto is capable of making a lesser aircraft at least keep up with the VF-25 and even score a few hits. I doubt either were shooting to kill, if they were one would be dead.
VF-25 Messiah Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 Let me rephrase. I thought that Ozma was cutting Alto slack and wasn't fighting seriously while Alto gave it his all to fight "sempai". As someone said, Ozma only fired one shot throughout the fight and it hit Alto in the shoulder. In hindsight Alto might or might not be shooting to kill but Ozma definately isn't given his skill but also underestimated Alto because he got hit on the fastpacks as well. And of course there's the issue on performance of VF-117EX vs VF-25 Full Armored...... I have to retract my last comment, as it seems we're in agreement. I too am a bit unsure wether Alto was shooting to kill, but he was for certain taking the fight way more seriously than Ozma was. As for performance differences between the machines, they might actually be monstrously huge or not so big at all, but it doesn't actually have any bearing on the original question: "Did Ozma in the VF-25S pwn Alto in an upgraded VF-171? OR where they evenly matched?" It does have bearing on potential followup questions "Would the result have been the same if they were piloting the same machine?". Small but important difference
Kronnang Dunn Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 Is the SMS bossman even alive? Did we see him get in a Glaug and tangle with the Varja invasion? I believe he decided to merge his forces with those of Leon's. In fact, Leon phoned Bilrer at the begining of the episode (just before the opening). Btw... Rewatched the raw and noticed that Klan was sitting next to Michael Blanc's grave... resting on his tombstone when she got Cathy's text message. I read it and it clearly said "Michael Blanc, 2042 - 2059". Does anybody has a pic of that scene? It is clearly a confirmation that Michael is dead... No cyborg return or anything like it anymore...
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