Macross Frontier Episode 22 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Hereticpoo]

Seeing Grace in that Catsuit made me blush!

I feel like I need to go to confession. The shame!

[magnuskn]

How many QFT reply did this post get? Here's another one. QFT. I don't think there's any surprises there since Ranka has been pretty prominent even in the early production notes, so the gist of the story will be on her side. Ranka is no doubt the main female lead. Ranka and Sheryl's part in the show is hardly equal. The recent staff interviews also questions Alto's actions towards Sheryl in 22, so I think you're on the mark.

It did get one. Well, now with you, it got two.

[VF-25 Messiah]

It did get one. Well, now with you, it got two.

It got more than that, even if they didn't use "QFT", which is what I think he meant. And consider this another one:

Uhmmm... Minmay was the main girl even though Misa got the dude... check the Gold Book and Perfect Memory, which character to they always feature first? Also check 2012 to see which character was more prominently featured.

And as far as I know Ranka has more drama than Sheryl, she's got 2 dudes, an uncle, a best friend, alien followers, cool gadgets and the whole background story on how she rose to fame.. The story is more centered around her than Alto himself.

And it seems to me that Alto never liked Sheryl in that way... he's just warming to her now that she's dying.

QFT.

Edited September 10, 2008 by VF-25 Messiah

[mike_s_6]

QFT.

Alright then, I'd like to challenge the purported "truth" in the statements you guys quoted.

First sentence: True - the first girl who interacts with the guy gets the guy in the Macross series.

Second sentence: True, if you define "drama" to be "any interaction with any person within the animation regardless of depth". Otherwise, in the emotive sense, this is False, or depending on your sensibilities of what a dramatic, moving scene is. No one has even commented on my reply about how "cool gadgets" can add to drama, and what the cool gadgets are? This isn't a "whoa, you have a cool phone, now that is drama!!!" is it? If someone just tells me what Ranka's dramatic cool gadgets are, I'd probably lay this one to rest.

Third sentence: No proof yet. The only truth here is that that original poster "feels" that way, but does the feeling equate to what the truth within the animation is?

The QFT acronym is weird. It sounds like a "count me in... yet I don't really have anything to add to the discussion, so I'll just say that this person is telling something irrefutable (even if what the person said is subjective)".

quick edit: Yes, when I made that comment about "QFT", I'm referring to Ranka and Sheryl fans alike.

Edited September 10, 2008 by mike_s_6

[RedWolf]

The scene with the squished Vajra during Luca's talk poses another question.

Just where did Sheryl get the virus?

We assumed Grace injected her, that might not be the case.

The scene looked to me like either a escape pod or a battered battroid.

There are two things in common with Brera and Ranka.

1. Both have amnesia. We assume it is caused by trauma but that may not be the case.

2. Both can transmit fold waves. Or else Ai-kun wouldn't have been scurrying when Brera played his harmonica with Aimo.

Sheryl could have really been on the 117th fleet.

[VF-25 Messiah]

Alright, in hindsight, I should perhaps concede that my intent was more that I am agreeing with the notion that "Ranka is the main character of the show", rather than that all points in >EXO<'s post (which I still do agree with) were all universally irrefutable. Happy?

Also people stating "They agree" without adding much else, happens all the time

[Chronocidal]

the thing is... alto was simply left behind because he didn't check his message fast enough!! haha.

seriously, i think he made a choice to stay. he would have been the ultimate as$ if he decided to go with SMS, right after promising sheryl that he'd stay with her. and to go after ranka, no less. ouch.

on the other hand, his decision to stay with NUNS also conflics with his earlier resolve (whoch he communicated with Luca) to bring back Ranka before Nanase woke up. but of course, that was before he had his "moment" with Sheryl.

All in all, i think he made the right decision to stay. after all, if not for that decision, we would not have seen the Alto-Ozma dogfight!! cool!

I think that's the best explanation yet for Alto's scream at the end. I didn't get to watch the sub till today, but that makes perfect sense. He's basically promised different people different things (Sheryl to stay with her till the end, Luca to bring back Ranka before Nanase wakes up, and to top it all, he promised Ozma he'd watch over Ranka a while back as well), and now he's having to break his word because of his choice.

He's decided to stick with Sheryl, which may or may not wind up being a dead end death spiral into pain. In the process, he also broke his promise to Luca, let Ranka run off with the guy he hates in order to befriend the bugs that killed Michel, was abandoned by his comrades in arms to go rogue, and signed on with a hitler wannabe.... yeah, I'd scream too. It looks like he's basically realized there can be no happy ending the way things are at the moment.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Chronocidal

[magnuskn]

quick edit: Yes, when I made that comment about "QFT", I'm referring to Ranka and Sheryl fans alike.

I won´t even try to deny that I view things Sheryl-favoured, but I also try to look at the situation based on prior relationship dynamics, the storyline and characterization. I think I can definitely say that at this point that an Alto X Ranka romantic relationship lacks any real foundation in what so far has happened on the show. It would need something incredibly drastic by this point to make work, because of the dearth of real interaction between the two of them. At least a time-jump and a great lot of handwaving, maybe if Sheryl dies of her disease.

Sheryl X Alto, however, has been steadily built up over the whole season. Yeah, their big moment could have been more romantic, but in light of how Sheryls own story has developed during the season, some light-hearted romance would feel out of place at this time, as sad as that is.

[EXO]

Alright then, I'd like to challenge the purported "truth" in the statements you guys quoted.

First sentence: True - the first girl who interacts with the guy gets the guy in the Macross series.

Second sentence: True, if you define "drama" to be "any interaction with any person within the animation regardless of depth". Otherwise, in the emotive sense, this is False, or depending on your sensibilities of what a dramatic, moving scene is. No one has even commented on my reply about how "cool gadgets" can add to drama, and what the cool gadgets are? This isn't a "whoa, you have a cool phone, now that is drama!!!" is it? If someone just tells me what Ranka's dramatic cool gadgets are, I'd probably lay this one to rest.

Third sentence: No proof yet. The only truth here is that that original poster "feels" that way, but does the feeling equate to what the truth within the animation is?

The QFT acronym is weird. It sounds like a "count me in... yet I don't really have anything to add to the discussion, so I'll just say that this person is telling something irrefutable (even if what the person said is subjective)".

quick edit: Yes, when I made that comment about "QFT", I'm referring to Ranka and Sheryl fans alike.

Whoah, hey now there Mr. Big Words... First of all, yes I meant the phone was cool, and also it also meant I was joking about the "gadgets". You think I'm stupid enough to equate gadgets with drama? It seems like I gave you a freebie and you ran with it. Second of all the person I was replying to said that Sheryl had more drama than Ranka... guess what... one person alone isn't drama. Yes it does require other people and so far, most of the supporting has been built around Ranka. So she's got more going on than Sheryl and her Hepatitis V complex. Finally the only thing I tried to prove in my post was that whoever gets the boy doesn't make her the main figure of the show. Minamy lost to Misa but SDF was more about Minmay than Misa, but essentially it's about Hikaru where as Frontier is more about Ranka than any one else... but the hell with all that. It seems clear to me, but since I've read that people disagree I came to the conclusion that it was never around one person, it's always have been about the triangle as all the Macross shows have shown, even the non Kawamori one.

But Ranka is still the main person...

[dreamweaver13]

I think that's the best explanation yet for Alto's scream at the end. I didn't get to watch the sub till today, but that makes perfect sense. He's basically promised different people different things (Sheryl to stay with her till the end, Luca to bring back Ranka before Nanase wakes up, and to top it all, he promised Ozma he'd watch over Ranka a while back as well), and now he's having to break his word because of his choice.

He's decided to stick with Sheryl, which may or may not wind up being a dead end death spiral into pain. In the process, he also broke his promise to Luca, let Ranka run off with the guy he hates in order to befriend the bugs that killed Michel, was abandoned by his comrades in arms to go rogue, and signed on with a hitler wannabe.... yeah, I'd scream too. It looks like he's basically realized there can be no happy ending the way things are at the moment.

Yes, exactly. I mean, i would scream too. From alto's perspective, everything was all fuc*ed up by that time. whatever his feelings are for the girls, everything is a royal mess. if it's sheryl he's in love with, his loved one's about to die, his little-sister-friend has sided with the vajra, his role model (ozma) left him and even questioned the reason for his choices, his comrades have gone rogue, and he's left to serve under an usurper who, more than likely, plans to use sheryl the way he did ranka. oh man. alto plays the tough guy, but since we can tell he's quite an emotional guy deep inside, i can only imagine how all this is killing him.

And for alto's sensitivity to all underlying issues, i'd have to give him props. imagine if this were Hikaru...

Cathy: we're going rogue. President Mishima assasinated my father. we have to look for ranka. will you go with us?

Hikaru: well, i don't know, i kinda made plans with someone...

Cathy: oh come on. you can see that person anytime right, and he'll be right there when you get back, right?

Hikaru: (thinking about the promise he made to sheryl) ummm.... ok. i'll just tell "him". i'm sure "he'll" understand.

[veffidas]

Whoah, hey now there Mr. Big Words...

She's a lady, so that's Ms. Big Words to you, >EXO<.

[EXO]

Sorry, I didn't get to check under the hood... I just caught up and haven't been on these threads at all...

Have you guys noticed that when Alto says Ranka it's almost always RAAAANKAAA! And when he says Sheryl it's always with a question mark... Sheryl?

[David Hingtgen]

Well, it's a lot easier to scream a vowel than a consonant. Rankaaaaaaaaaa works much better than Sheryllllllllllllll.

[badboy00z]

I've been wondering...why is Ai-kun not hostile? Is it because he's a natural/ non altered Vajra?

[mike_s_6]

Whoah, hey now there Mr. Big Words... First of all, yes I meant the phone was cool, and also it also meant I was joking about the "gadgets". You think I'm stupid enough to equate gadgets with drama? It seems like I gave you a freebie and you ran with it. Second of all the person I was replying to said that Sheryl had more drama than Ranka... guess what... one person alone isn't drama. Yes it does require other people and so far, most of the supporting has been built around Ranka. So she's got more going on than Sheryl and her Hepatitis V complex. Finally the only thing I tried to prove in my post was that whoever gets the boy doesn't make her the main figure of the show. Minamy lost to Misa but SDF was more about Minmay than Misa, but essentially it's about Hikaru where as Frontier is more about Ranka than any one else... but the hell with all that. It seems clear to me, but since I've read that people disagree I came to the conclusion that it was never around one person, it's always have been about the triangle as all the Macross shows have shown, even the non Kawamori one.

But Ranka is still the main person...

Please don't call me names, my internet id is there for that reason.

I'm fine with the joke now, you didn't put any smileys so it looks like you were serious about Ranka getting the upper hand in the drama partly because she has cool gadgets (okay I think it's pretty funny now that you mention it). But no, I'm not trying to argue based solely on that. I'm talking about your focus on the quantity of interactions of Ranka with other characters, as compared with the quality of emotions that come from them every time the interaction occurs. In this aspect, Ranka may have more interactions, but Sheryl while having lesser interactions, are more dramatic. It follows for me, that Ranka is really the main character as originally planned, but it doesn't follow that she has more drama than Sheryl, who has consistently fallen and lost starting from that episode where she fell sick and Ranka took over.

Also people stating "They agree" without adding much else, happens all the time

Saying "I agree" is different from saying "quoted for truth". The first one is an expression of opinion, the second one is a declaration on the truth value of the statement. Saying "I agree" yes, doesn't add to the conversation, which is also a waste of bits, but "quoted for truth", especially when labeling something that is easily contested, actually sounds condescending to the person who doesn't share the opinion ("Are you stupid and can't see the truth?!").

[veffidas]

Please don't call me names, my internet id is there for that reason.

I apologize for continuing that.

Saying "I agree" is different from saying "quoted for truth". The first one is an expression of opinion, the second one is a declaration on the truth value of the statement. Saying "I agree" yes, doesn't add to the conversation, which is also a waste of bits, but "quoted for truth", especially when labeling something that is easily contested, actually sounds condescending to the person who doesn't share the opinion ("Are you stupid and can't see the truth?!").

It's more of a "Hear, hear!" than a simple "I agree." While literally taking "quoted for truth" could cause a feeling a condescension, it's a figure of speech and should be taken figuratively. Really, it's simply internet subculture and shouldn't be taken too seriously; you'll be hard-pressed to get people to change. But, yes, it is trying to push forward a singular view.

Edited September 10, 2008 by veffidas

[JB0]

Well, it's a lot easier to scream a vowel than a consonant. Rankaaaaaaaaaa works much better than Sheryllllllllllllll.

But not easier than Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeryl. The K just gets in the way.

One more reason why Sheryl > Ranka.

[mike_s_6]

I apologize for continuing that.

Oh, I didn't mind it, I'm really a "Ms" anyway

It's more of a "Hear, hear!" than a simple "I agree." While literally taking "quoted for truth" could cause a feeling a condescension, it's a figure of speech and should be taken figuratively. Really, it's simply internet subculture and shouldn't be taken too seriously; you'll be hard-pressed to get people to change. But, yes, it is trying to push forward a singular view.

I shouldn't have taken it seriously, I suppose I had to vent about it even just once

[veffidas]

But not easier than Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeryl. The K just gets in the way.

One more reason why Sheryl > Ranka.

Actually, you'd probably elongate the vowel sound that goes with the "y" than anything else if you were to scream "Sheryl." Though, I don't agree that the "k" gets in the way; it's quite easy to start a vowel sound with a strong consonant sound, e.g. pronounce B, C, D - even K itself.

Oh, I didn't mind it, I'm really a "Ms" anyway

Right, which is why I felt I ought to point it out.

Edited September 10, 2008 by veffidas

[Radd]

I've been wondering...why is Ai-kun not hostile? Is it because he's a natural/ non altered Vajra?

Ai-kun probably would be violent if goaded with the same stimulus used to provoke the other Vajra, now that he's out of his larval stage. Like other Vajra, he would not be violent towards Ranka of course.

Ai-kun didn't move beyond his larval stage until after that last attack which left much of Frontier in ruins.

[Duke Togo]

I apologize for continuing that.

It's more of a "Hear, hear!" than a simple "I agree." While literally taking "quoted for truth" could cause a feeling a condescension, it's a figure of speech and should be taken figuratively. Really, it's simply internet subculture and shouldn't be taken too seriously; you'll be hard-pressed to get people to change. But, yes, it is trying to push forward a singular view.

Are you suggesting that there is a different between my opinion and the truth?

[MisaForever]

Are you suggesting that there is a different between my opinion and the truth?

Isn't that a known fact?

[yellowlightman]

First sentence: True - the first girl who interacts with the guy gets the guy in the Macross series.

That theory doesn't really hold up in anything beyond the original Macross and Macross II.

[Duke Togo]

That theory doesn't really hold up in anything beyond the original Macross and Macross II.

Doesn't matter, it was in reply to this statement by EXO: "Minmay was the main girl even though Misa got the dude... check the Gold Book and Perfect Memory, which character to they always feature first? Also check 2012 to see which character was more prominently featured."

[DeeBot]

I can see how Ranka can be seen as boring though. Everything comes too easily for her. She essentially attained overnight what Grace had been preparing Sheryl for, for 11 years.

Oh, how easily we forget that long stretch when the forums were rife with speculation about when Ranka would finally get her big break...

Minmay definitely got the world handed to her on a silver platter. Ranka, not so much.

I think the problem may partly be that young children are boring in general, at least to certain kinds of people. The characters in Frontier, Ranka in particular, are still growing up to be interesting adults.

[MisaForever]

Oh, how easily we forget that long stretch when the forums were rife with speculation about when Ranka would finally get her big break...

Minmay definitely got the world handed to her on a silver platter. Ranka, not so much.

I think the problem may partly be that young children are boring in general, at least to certain kinds of people. The characters in Frontier, Ranka in particular, are still growing up to be interesting adults.

Yes, but see speculation is a lot of the problem. It's what causes the arguements as well.

[Salamander]

So, after watching ep 22 again with subs, all I can say is

- Luca = Tool. Couldn't he have been blown up by friendly fire?

- Alto is rather clueless.

- Note to subbers: Virus ≠ Bacteria.

[RF-26AAC]

So, after watching ep 22 again with subs, all I can say is

- Luca = Tool. Couldn't he have been blown up by friendly fire?

- Alto is rather clueless.

- Note to subbers: Virus ≠ Bacteria.

Unless you want to sub it I suggest you be thankful that people like Lunar are subbing this for FREE.

I'm sure they know, but seriously, chill dude.

And yes, I am watching it with Lunar's glorious subs right now and Luca is the most useless tool. He's been able to jam fold waves all along!?

[yaiba]

Oh, how easily we forget that long stretch when the forums were rife with speculation about when Ranka would finally get her big break...

Actually, I don't think I was around in the forum at that time

I think the problem may partly be that young children are boring in general, at least to certain kinds of people. The characters in Frontier, Ranka in particular, are still growing up to be interesting adults.

I agree with you. I would have to say again, that character design seems to influence this quite a bit, as one of the most boring characters has got to be Alto but he is labeled most often as being just dense.

[EXO]

Please don't call me names, my internet id is there for that reason.

I'm fine with the joke now, you didn't put any smileys so it looks like you were serious about Ranka getting the upper hand in the drama partly because she has cool gadgets (okay I think it's pretty funny now that you mention it). But no, I'm not trying to argue based solely on that. I'm talking about your focus on the quantity of interactions of Ranka with other characters, as compared with the quality of emotions that come from them every time the interaction occurs. In this aspect, Ranka may have more interactions, but Sheryl while having lesser interactions, are more dramatic. It follows for me, that Ranka is really the main character as originally planned, but it doesn't follow that she has more drama than Sheryl, who has consistently fallen and lost starting from that episode where she fell sick and Ranka took over.

Saying "I agree" is different from saying "quoted for truth". The first one is an expression of opinion, the second one is a declaration on the truth value of the statement. Saying "I agree" yes, doesn't add to the conversation, which is also a waste of bits, but "quoted for truth", especially when labeling something that is easily contested, actually sounds condescending to the person who doesn't share the opinion ("Are you stupid and can't see the truth?!").

I'm not really sure you know what "more" means. I guess when you say Sheryl's sickness is more dramatic, then that means your more taken up by it, but consistenly falling doesn't mean more. It's still ONE dramatic plot point. You can ignore all the trials and tribulations that Ranka is going thru but they are quite dramatic. If you're talking about facing death, I still don't see how Sheryl has Ranka beat. Ranka has time and again put herself into difficult situations. Not only those that required sacrifice but those that needed courage such as taking it upon herself to enter the Miss Macross contest and putting a carrot on her head to be able to work as a singer. The last bit is more comedic but it's still more than Sheryl ever did on the show. It also shows the range of emotion the character has put us thru. What did Sheryl do for comedic effect but chase her panties around the school. I still disagree about the the amount of drama she brings. I don't really care if Alto ends up with her or not, it'll just be another uninteresting thing that happens concerning her.

[veffidas]

So, after watching ep 22 again with subs, all I can say is

...

- Note to subbers: Virus ≠ Bacteria.

As was said earlier, blame the Japanese script writers; the fansubbers got it right according to what Luca said. He specifically said "bacteria" at least twice. These issues should probably go in the fansub thread as well.

Edited September 10, 2008 by veffidas

[shinkirou]

luca was not the one who fired the missiles at ozma and company XD

look at the vf-171ex - it has no disc rotating above it XD

[s-girl]

Could the mistake be due to bacteriophage being confused by the subbers? bacteriophages are viruses, but I could understand why that got messed up.

As for the rest of this thread... geez, folks. Speculate all you want, but unless you're a scriptwriter for the last three episodes, no one is authoritative here.

[Product9]

Probably IFFs can be tied to their EX-GEARs as ppl said which is a form of personal identification made easy for everyone. The personal callsign can be general across all radars but the IFF signal to determine "friend or foe" can be different. That said i think their IFF signal was of "foes" on the Quarter.

If the IFF in Frontier works anything like for reals IFF, then it's a combination of the hardware and identification codes, or encryption keys. For one, they are all using the same IFF hardware, or at least comparable hardware. SMS and NUNS are supposed to be on the same side, so there should be no problem in recieving and interpreting IFF interrogation signals. From there, as long as the pilot entered correct and up-to-date codes, the IFF would automatically respond, verifying it as a friendly aircraft.

I guess by 2059 IFF has advanced enough to be able to identify individual pilots, probably based on their own personal identification codes that they have to enter into the hardware everytime they step into an aircraft. These codes would change every so often to maintain security, and prevent someone from fradulently using an aircraft under the guise of an SMS/NUNS pilot.

Also, IFF, or Identification Friend or Foe, is a misnomer, as it can only determine if the aircraft is friendly or unknown. There is no way to positively ID a bogey as an enemy, which is why visual identification is so important. It could be a friendly aircraft with a damaged IFF, or wrong codes due to pilot error or some other logistical reason.

So, it's as simple as Alto and Luca input their personal IDs into the VF-171EXs IFF system.

EDIT: Come to think of it, the Ex-gears probably have personal transponders for rescue (and other) purposes. Still, I'm sure the IFF isn't dependant on it, as Ex-gear isn't required for the operation of all aircraft.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Product9

[Sumdumgai]

luca was not the one who fired the missiles at ozma and company XD

look at the vf-171ex - it has no disc rotating above it XD

That doesn't mean anything with the inconsistencies found in Macross Frontier's animation. They could have easily forgotten to animate the radome/disc/thing. Hell, we've seen one of the shoulder covers of the Q-rea disappear in the middle of a scene!