Macross Frontier Episode 22 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[wolfx]

BTW...anybody started screming "Sieg Zeon!!!" when this scene played out:

http://randomc.maximum7.net/image/Macross/...0Large%2025.jpg

SIEG ZEON!!!!

I took it slightly differently. I went "ORUUUUU HEIRUUUUUUUUUU BRITANNNIAAAAAAAA!!!!"

[DeeBot]

I just could not believe Ozma was willing to shoot to kill Luca ! Following your path is one thing but to shoot a former comrade, that's really nuts !

Nah, Ozma wasn't shooting to kill, it's just that Luca sucked more than he was expecting, and let two through.

...Did Ozma and the CF-25s with him take out the 4th Sqaudron that Alto and Luca were flying with? With the last scene were Alto screamed in frustration and MQ folding, we only saw Alto's & Luca's VF-171s, which made me think that they killd the other VF-171 pilots of the 4th Squadron.

Well, by that logic the CF-25s were all destroyed, too.

Ozma was firing into asteroids a lot to create a lot of debris. I get more the feeling that the NUNS fighters weren't able to keep up with Alto, Luca, et al., rather than being destroyed in combat.

Did'nt he recieve the same message as the other members of SMS? Although IIRC he did not read the meassage right away.

Yeah, that's what I figured. And Ozma looked over at Alto's and Luca's fighters, and seemed regretful that they hadn't come. Of course, presumably if they had gotten the message and wanted to stop the SMS leaving, they would have gotten there sooner... odd. (We have an explanation for Alto, of course, and I guess Luca was preoccupied with his fold wave thingie, or maybe he never got the message because it was clear he was a NUNS rat by now.)

It's all a bit confusing. I'm not sure a more careful sub would fix this, or if it's just confusing dialogue in the episode itself.

(Also, Wilder super-rocks in this episode. I was a bit thrown by Bobby's use of English, though. I wonder if this turn prompted the PotC-sounding theme earlier...)

Edited September 7, 2008 by DeeBot

[grss1982]

I just could not believe Ozma was willing to shoot to kill Luca ! Following your path is one thing but to shoot a former comrade, that's really nuts !

You just got me thinking......If those missiles had actually hit Luca and killed him, would'nt that add more tension and drama to next episodes? I guess it could mean more VF vs. VF action between an enraged Alto and Ozma.

BTW.. just read Crsader's post on Episode 22, and I really liked the way he explains Alto's Frsutrated Scream...

Hime wasn’t screaming because Ozma was right, but probably because he wasn’t protecting much of anything by flying any more. Brera was better able to protect Ranka, Ozma was able to protect Cathy, Mikhail was able to protect Klein, but Alto cannot protect Sheryl no matter how many times he sorties. All three of them Ozma, Brera, and Mikhail were flying to protect the person they loved. Alto can’t even do that, so how much of a man is he when the person he cares about is dying and hime can’t do more than give Sheryl the courage to sing and die?

Edited September 7, 2008 by grss1982

[Mercurial Morpheus]

Interesting thought there, about the only good one along with the Klan thoughts outside of the rest of that blah post (traitor? anti-minmay? reminds me why I don't bother with those things). Maybe that works. Especially given his irk at the line about "women."

Though it's probably a mix of things.

Edited September 7, 2008 by Mercurial Morpheus

[d3v]

You just got me thinking......If those missiles had actually hit Luca and killed him, would'nt that add more tension and drama to next episodes? I guess it could mean more VF vs. VF action between an enraged Alto and Ozma.

Well, maybe he thought it would be better for Luca to die with meaning, rather than to be randomly Kakizakied later on.

Anyway, back to serious biz. I can't help but compare Alto and Sheryl's scene where the princess promises to stay by Sheryl's side until the end with Hikaru and Misa's scene in DYRL where Hikaru tells Misa that the one he wants to be by his side forever is her.

Edited September 7, 2008 by d3v

[s-girl]

Yes it was. Hydra kittens are cute when they're not big and wanna eat you. What makes you say sheryl attracts hydras? As for significance, apparently the hydra population have been infected with V-type virus and were supposedly cullled as mentioned by president Glass.

I was thinking about Ranka's earlier Aimo that had brought out Ai-kun from who knows where ... the random appearance of a hydra that was not supposed to exist on Frontier was kind of interesting to me. It was a strange little parallel in my mind, and assuming that Kawamori and his writer crew had made the point to tell us they had gotten rid of the hydra and have one show up in the ruins was fascinating. I hope it gets explained .

Brought this up in another thread, but after watching 22 , there's something dangling plot-wise that bothers me.

The issue of the Sheryl's switched blood samples back by Grace back when Sheryl was hospitalized is another little puzzle to me with a few possibilities.

1> Grace switched it out so the v-type virus couldn't be detected and therapeutically addressed.

2> Grace switched it out and replaced it with a sample that was "infected" to hide something else.

Due to the skips and stuff , I don't know if Sheryl ever had a followup evaluation with her actual blood being tested in other words.

It is another dangling item that drives me nuts as I watch 22. We don't know under what basis Luca makes his statements about Sheryl's condition. With the translation I can't tell whether he is talking to Sheryl's condition specifically or generally. He may be hypothesizing everything based on the knowledge everyone has, which is still based on fairly good circumstantial evidence, but to be truthful, a biopsy/actual sample would be the best way to understand the progress of Sheryl's disease... her viral load, assuming we can take everything stated so far to be "true" and that Sheryl really is infected. (Remember that Type-Alpha blood type that showed up for Sheryl in a wiki or profile? Could it be that everything that is happening to her is more related to the Nome-family link that v-type infection?)

(Because there's still the possibility that all of this could be manipulated since Grace is quite good at that and Sheryl's 'condition' serves her purposes.)

And there I go again with the bio-tech stuff

Edited September 7, 2008 by s-girl

[Mercurial Morpheus]

Well, maybe he thought it would be better for Luca to die with meaning, rather than to be randomly Kakizakied later on.

Not to mention that that would set things on a rather solemn path and be rather generic.

Anyway, back to serious biz. I can't help but compare Alto and Sheryl's scene where the princess promises to stay by Sheryl's side until the end with Hikaru and Misa's scene in DYRL where Hikaru tells Misa that the one he wants to be by his side forever is her.

I didn't feel it was that final. Alto still reads to me as a man not entirely sure what he wants. He could very much have fully meant what he said, and at the same time, not. I think he's not sure himself what he's trying to protect. Particularly how he reacted to Ozma's line on reacting to momentary emotions, and not knowing why he flies. That's not to say that Sheryl isn't someone deeply important to him, but it doesn't entirely feel the same as Hikaru and Misa.

Edited September 7, 2008 by Mercurial Morpheus

[d3v]

I didn't feel it was that final. Alto still reads to me as a man not entirely sure what he wants. He could very much have fully meant what he said, and at the same time, not. I think he's not sure himself what he's trying to protect. Particularly how he reacted to Ozma's line on reacting to momentary emotions, and not knowing why he flies.

At the very least it's a setup leading to the final decision, similar to how other Macross couples had special moments leading to their decisive moments (Hikaru and Misa in the ruins, Shin and Sara during the sunrise). I wont be surprised if an event comes along in the final episodes where Alto makes a decision by reiterating his promise to Sheryl to stick with her to the very end.

[Mercurial Morpheus]

Well, I can agree with that. Though to be honest, the way he's been, it still doesn't feel too much like "love" to me. More like friendship, obligation and compassion. Though i figure I'm pretty much alone in this. Still, I have a feeling that not everything was wrapped up in a neat vlittle package. At least, not yet.

Edited September 7, 2008 by Mercurial Morpheus

[shinkirou]

after watching gg's subbed version...

what can i say...

1.) ozma said that the vf-25 models are better than vf-171ex models (he says to alto and co. prior to the dogfight: "if you think you can beat me with that crudely upgraded aircraft!") so alto was fighting on unequal terms with ozma to begin with (if we base ozma's words to be true).

still, alto managed a hit and ozma recognized this feat XD

2.) sheryl is indeed dying and has reached that stage where the v-infection is producing toxins already. upon reaching this stage, she can already produce fold waves as well due to the infection. unless the fold quartz serves as an amplifier for this phenomenon, I am sure sheryl is already at the stage of not being saved.

Luca: "but once that point is reached, a new possibilty opens up"

Leon: "your voice now produces faint fold waves"

ergo... being able to produce faint fold waves = sheryl beyond saving unless her condition was misread due to the fold crystal earing being an amplifier all along...

3.) I agree with the others that I kinda saw dyrl confession scene between hikaru and misa in alto and sheryl's case. however, sheryl's going to die unless "magic" happens or ranka does something about it. heck this is macross, I'm prepared for some magic XD

4.) I could see an alto X no one already as a very big option for the triangler relationship conclusion as well (due to some ranka spoiler on another thread)

5.) the vajra/protoculture(maybe) planet will become mf's new home unless they get destroyed. haha oh what a series that would be lol XD

6.) macross frontier r2 - revenge of the macross galaxy XD

7.) the fight scenes only portrayed luca, alto and ozma to save animation budget and not bother with cannon fodder dogfights haha

Edited September 7, 2008 by shinkirou

[yaiba]

I think he's not sure himself what he's trying to protect. Particularly how he reacted to Ozma's line on reacting to momentary emotions, and not knowing why he flies. That's not to say that Sheryl isn't someone deeply important to him, but it doesn't entirely feel the same as Hikaru and Misa.

With Hikaru and Misa there was hope for a future. With Sheryl it's practically pallative care.

[Sumdumgai]

Just rewatch with gg subs, one awesome episode !

I just could not believe Ozma was willing to shoot to kill Luca ! Following your path is one thing but to shoot a former comrade, that's really nuts !

I just hope Sheryl don't die at the end of this series, otherwise I am going to personally go to Japan and kick SK's butt !

Lucca fired the first salvo of missiles. Mr. Willing to sacrifice people to try to protect Nanase sure has established he'd be willing to kill Ozma if it went towards protecting hospital-girl. Lucca made his choice and his stance known. It's just a shame that Alto saved his ass. He's probably going to regret it when Lucca pulls something evil later, when he gets even more pulled to Leon's side.

[Mercurial Morpheus]

With Hikaru and Misa there was hope for a future. With Sheryl it's practically pallative care.

Sort of. That, and the Hikaru/Misa relationship benefited from more episodes and better and more consistent pacing. It was a lot more give and take than what we see with Alto. Even if Hikaru was still an indecisive prick at times.

[azrael]

veffidas has kindly provided a DDL (direct download link) AVI-version of [gg]'s sub. You'll find it in the first post. Now all you people who can't play [gg]'s MKVs can quit complaining.

[Macross_Fanboy]

Whoa! That's a good episode, but I can't stand MKV files because VLC isn't that great and I can't find any free software for Macs to play them back properly. Anyways, I'm curious about what Alto will do, that little duel he and Ozma had was pretty good, that was unexpected. I really hope Sheryl doesn't die, I'm not sure about you guys, but I prefer that Ranka die. Anyways, let's wait and see for the next ep.

[Radd]

I'm still convinced they can pull everything together for the end. In fact, with the past two or three episodes, I've become more convinced of it. I certainly suspect the possibility that Sheryl will live, the Vajra deus-exing up a cure once peace is achieved or something...but on the other hand, the way things are I would not be surprised if we get a very bittersweet ending. At this point, I'd even say Ozma has a higher chance of surviving the series than Alto. However they go with it, I'm counting the days to each of these final episodes.

[Macross_Fanboy]

The thought of Alto dying never crossed my mind, I doubt either of them will, I think that Alto will end up helping Ozma bring down Leon and maybe Leon will get killed by the DE or getting squished like William in the first episode. I'm curious about Brera's memories since the next episode will be about Ranka's memories of her true past. So Frontier is going to be 26 episodes long? As long as it doesn't go on and on like these new Gaydams nowadays it'll be more enjoyable and keep a high degree of animation quality.

[MisaForever]

veffidas has kindly provided a DDL (direct download link) AVI-version of [gg]'s sub. You'll find it in the first post. Now all you people who can't play [gg]'s MKVs can quit complaining.

Thanks Az and Veffidas for this, but I'll stop complaining about this when GG puts out files that everyone can watch. Even with CCCP installed, MKVs are still choppy.

If it was that easy for you guys to put out an AVI, why couldn't GG do it? I mean really.

Edited September 7, 2008 by MisaForever

[sdf2501]

If it was that easy for you guys to put out an AVI, why couldn't GG do it? I mean really.

Their fansubs, their rules? They are a speed subber; lots of other groups out there who provide avis. Personally, I don't mind. They do this stuff for free and on their own time. Why should I complain? Like I said, lots of other groups out there.

[MisaForever]

Their fansubs, their rules? They are a speed subber; lots of other groups out there who provide avis. Personally, I don't mind. They do this stuff for free and on their own time. Why should I complain? Like I said, lots of other groups out there.

I'm not going to openly say anything further about this. But you all misunderstand what I'm saying.

Anyways, I look forward to watching this episode.

[Master Dex]

I finally watched the episode.

So hard for me to watch them very early now sine I went back to school (internet sucks here and they block torrents). Anyway this was a really good episode, they keep on piling them up. I bet in the next few episodes until the end they will only keep getting better.

I like the direction the people of SMS took, I think it was correct. Alto just doesn't understand and Luca has become a NUNS puppet. I'm not entirely sure why Klan didn't go with Quarter, maybe she feels there is nothing left for her to do with Michel gone.

[Macross_Fanboy]

Well, I can still watch MKVs, they aren't choppy, it's just that the subtitles are unreadable when Sheryl starts singing, they overlap the dialog between the characters, I can get a vague idea of what's going on through the sights and bits of Japanese that I know, but still, it's kind of irritating.

Back on topic, Klan, staying behind, well, maybe she has something else in mind. She didn't go after them, so she's obviously not with the NUNS, perhaps she hopes to find Michel's body floating somewhere out there, but I doubt it. I'm sure she'll live through the remainder of the show. Since the beginning of the show, I suspected Luca would die, and recently he almost bought the farm on several occasions, perhaps his death will come before the end. I don't love him or hate him, but I just see him dying by the very things he creates.

[MisaForever]

Ok, was able to watch the episode and it was very good. I feel bad for Alto, though, torn between SMS and Sheryl.

I'm guessing Grace grabbing her chest is in the next episode because I didn't see her do it?

[Gubaba]

Ok, was able to watch the episode and it was very good. I feel bad for Alto, though, torn between SMS and Sheryl.

I'm guessing Grace grabbing her chest is in the next episode because I didn't see her do it?

Yep, it was there. At the very end, right before the credits.

(She also, oddly, has Brera-style "cheek shields" now...)

[SpacePirateNeko]

Yep, it was there. At the very end, right before the credits.

(She also, oddly, has Brera-style "cheek shields" now...)

What are the chances well get some spin offs ...OVA's or movie after the series ends...wasnt this supposed to air until feb 09?

[DrJinh007]

Whoa! That's a good episode, but I can't stand MKV files because VLC isn't that great and I can't find any free software for Macs to play them back properly. Anyways, I'm curious about what Alto will do, that little duel he and Ozma had was pretty good, that was unexpected. I really hope Sheryl doesn't die, I'm not sure about you guys, but I prefer that Ranka die. Anyways, let's wait and see for the next ep.

Try Mplayer. I find it much better than VLC to play MKV files. (to add the subtitle, just press "J").

[badboy00z]

The whole situation with Leon and Luca reminds me of Anakin and the the Emperor in ROTS.

[Kelsain]

Wow, what an episode. Can't wait to see where this goes, yet sad the end is coming... I'm still vainly hoping we'll get a Galactica-style "Continued in 2009," but I'm not expecting it. Hopefully the show will close with oodles of win!

For those lamenting the lack of screencaps of the 171EX, I took a few.

Dang, I hope they make a model of this thing!

[whispo]

As long as it doesn't go on and on like these new Gaydams nowadays it'll be more enjoyable and keep a high degree of animation quality.

Yet who has a Shinn Asuka avatar ?

Still this episode showed us the perfect way to tie up all loose ends. Introduce two seperate groups and let each group handle a different plot point, that way we'll get all our information and plot together without some really lame twists.

Edited September 7, 2008 by whispo

[veffidas]

First, providing the AVI is not easy. I had to spend last weekend learning all the software to re-encode the video and audio streams and make them sync up while I spent this weekend learning techniques to improve video quality vs. file size and hard-encode *.ass script files. Then there's also the time it takes for me to encode and proof each run of the file. You all would have complained about the first file I sent azrael - it had noticeable video artifacts and used an unedited *.ssa export of gg's script, which is horrible for song lyrics and background announcements. I haven't even bothered to try and encode the fonts gg uses in their release. As it stands, I need to keep the file size under 200MB in order to use Megaupload as a direct distribution method as well.

Second, Mac users should be using either MPlayer OSX Extended or Perian.

[wolfx]

and h264 is the way to the future. Read: HD. It being choppy has to do with your PC unable to cope decoding it....nothing to do with the mkv format.

[Shaka_Z]

and h264 is the way to the future. Read: HD. It being choppy has to do with your PC unable to cope decoding it....nothing to do with the mkv format.

not that i am complaining (as I can get by with the desync given my hardware limitations atm), but even with an ati radeon 2400hd AGP card I have issues with h264. granted my system is otherwise quite old - athlon xp 2100 with 2 gigs of pc2700 ram, 5 HDDs, windows XP MCE. hopefully I will be rebuilding it to a quad core phenom with a dual boot ubuntu/xp setup by xmas, and then I should no longer have problems ^^.

[azrael]

Enough with the file format/encoding chatter.

[s-girl]

Thanks for providing that avi. Having used all2avi a few times and being mortified by the processor hogging it does (as well as really screwing up the fonts0, this is so very much appreciated.

[grss1982]

Lucca fired the first salvo of missiles. Mr. Willing to sacrifice people to try to protect Nanase sure has established he'd be willing to kill Ozma if it went towards protecting hospital-girl. Lucca made his choice and his stance known. It's just a shame that Alto saved his ass. He's probably going to regret it when Lucca pulls something evil later, when he gets even more pulled to Leon's side.

Technically he didn't. It was some other VF that since just after he says the line "too bad" the next scene is a graphic of an HUD locking-on to some targets and then comes next a regular VF-171EX firing some missiles.

I'll try and get some pics of that scene.