Hi-Def and Home Theater Thread 2

[azrael]

How would free be a bad thing?

Well, if the thing is old and about to die, "free" means passing the buck, i.e. it becomes his problem instead of the previous owner's.

...

How old is the TV? Do you have room for it? And as EXO mentioned, disposal may be a problem down the road so do you want to inherit someone else's stuff?

[Uxi]

Guns? CRT? I'd probably pass... 50" isn't THAT big and you can easily get a 60-73" Mitsu DLP RPTV. It's no SXRD and is wobulated but certainly cheap enough to fill out a rather large size.

[mikeszekely]

Money is tight so a new HD TV is out of the question for at least a year or two

50" isn't THAT big and you can easily get a 60-73" Mitsu DLP RPTV. It's no SXRD and is wobulated but certainly cheap enough to fill out a rather large size.

50" isn't THAT big for who? He's upgrading from a 19", and when he's saying that money is tight, I'm getting the impression (though I could be wrong) that he's saying that he's got no money for a TV for awhile, not that he can settle for a $1000 DLP instead of $3500 for a 60" Kuro.

I think the question at hand isn't whether 50" is big enough, the question is whether a potentially problematic 50" SD CRT is at least an upgrade from a 19" TV. And I gotta agree with az and >EXO<, it might be more trouble than it's worth. Save what you can, buy the TV you really want when you can afford it.

[Uxi]

I essentially said the same thing as you (that it's more trouble than it's worth) especially considering that a newer, bigger, better TV can be had for $1k, but with a bit more detail

[mikeszekely]

I essentially said the same thing as you (that it's more trouble than it's worth) especially considering that a newer, bigger, better TV can be had for $1k, but with a bit more detail

Sorry, Uxi. I didn't mean to come across as antagonistic or anything. It was just the way I read your post (and I'm probably reading more into it than was intended) was that you meant that he shouldn't take the freebie because there are bigger and better TVs under a grand that he could buy right now. Like, "since you can't afford a [good] HDTV for a year or two, buy a cheaper one instead of a crappy freebie." I think it was your recommendation of a DLP TV... I think DLPs were the absolute best choice three or four years ago, and they do still have a price/size advantage, but unless you really want a picture that big (and I recall that you do) you're probably better off with a DLP projector (which I think I remember you saying you are getting or are planning to get). I'm not sure how the lamps are for projectors (or newer DLP TVs), but I know that the lamp for my TV only gets about 3000 hours and costs enough that I'm thinking about selling the TV instead of replacing the lamp next time it goes.

If you ask me (not that anybody is/does), if you want a 60" or larger screen, go with a projector and go for whatever screen size you care to project. Smaller than that, go with a flat-panel LCD. You'll spend the difference in price on replacement lamps and extra electricity if you go DLP.

Not that any of that has anything to do with the the freebie TV. Sorry. It's been a long weekend.

[Uxi]

No worries. FWIW, I have over 8000 hours on my SXRD's original lamp. Need to get around to ordering another and keep the used as a temp spare. Doubt I'll ever go through more than 2 before I replace the set anyways, but theoretically I could buy a few and keep them going indefinitely, even though m inor ancillary parts (mostly the 120mm fans) appear to fail in some instances.

I was never a fan of DLP but it's the only game in town nowadays if you don't want a flat panel. Most LCD's are a big step back in performance and plasmas price/size-performance ratio always pretty bad. Kuro came a ways to levelling but still far more expensive than the equivalent rear projection.

[Excillon]

I have a 47" Toshiba 1080p, and I like it. It's big enough, I upgraded from a 32, and even though I've gotten used to the Toshiba and it doesn't look as big, I still like it, I've never understood the need for anything over 50 anyhow...really. Just seems pointless to me.

[mikeszekely]

I was never a fan of DLP but it's the only game in town nowadays if you don't want a flat panel. Most LCD's are a big step back in performance and plasmas price/size-performance ratio always pretty bad.

Really? It's funny that you say that, because I'm rather enamored with with Samsung's LCDs. I recently replaced my old computer monitor with a Samsung SyncMaster T220 ToC, and that's when I realized that flat panel LCDs have come a long way since I bought my DLP TV.

I'll give you the price and size, though. We already established that a 62" Mitsubishi DLP can be had for around $1000. Meanwhile, I'm not sure if Samsung makes an LCD bigger than 52", and the good ones are over $2000. The size part doesn't bother me much, since 52" is ideal for my living room/viewing distance, and as for the money, well, you get what you pay for, sometimes. I'd rather not have to replace bulbs anymore, and my DLP only has one HDMI anyway.

[David Hingtgen]

New Blu-Ray this week:

Galactica, entire series including Razor

Galactica Season 4.5

Dollhouse, Season 1

The entire Fast and the Furious series

12 Monkeys

Green Lantern: First Flight

Dragonball: Evolution

[eugimon]

i have the BSG box set ordered with amazon... can't wait!

[David Hingtgen]

After months of my HDTV being only hooked up to game consoles (since I couldn't get anything with my previous antenna---I live in a kind of signal null-zone of no local transmitters), I got a nice little OTA antenna that pulls in stuff from 66 miles away. And it's mounted indoors, on a western wall, facing east. http://www.monoprice.com/products/product....=1&format=2

If you don't really have any "local" stations (anything within 20 miles) try it. It does much better than my previous $60 much larger antenna did. Note that it's directional---which is a big plus for far away things, but detrimental if you're "surrounded on all sides" by various towers. (of course, if you're surrounded by towers, any antenna should be sufficient)

(I get nearly everything from Monoprice now--even basics like coax cable)

[Major Focker]

got a sorta noob question:

BD player, PS3 connected via HDMI to AV receiver then to HD LCD again via HDMI.

BD player, PS3 and all cables are HDMI 1.3, only the AV receiver is HDMI 1.2

does this mean my system down-configures to 1.2? ie. not deep-color capable?

what other stuff do i miss out on if indeed my system is at 1.2?

haven't heard of any BDs with deep color yet, not sure for PS3 games, but PC games probably have this already and i'm planning to connect a desktop PC to that setup. so i'm contemplating for the PS3 whether to route the video straight to the TV via HDMI and the audio via optical to the receiver. for the PC i might have to do it that way anyway since i think it can't output HD audio via HDMI.

having said that, i would prefer routing everything through the receiver.

appreciate if anyone can clarify this for me. thanks.

[BeyondTheGrave]

got a sorta noob question:

BD player, PS3 connected via HDMI to AV receiver then to HD LCD again via HDMI.

BD player, PS3 and all cables are HDMI 1.3, only the AV receiver is HDMI 1.2

does this mean my system down-configures to 1.2? ie. not deep-color capable?

what other stuff do i miss out on if indeed my system is at 1.2?

haven't heard of any BDs with deep color yet, not sure for PS3 games, but PC games probably have this already and i'm planning to connect a desktop PC to that setup. so i'm contemplating for the PS3 whether to route the video straight to the TV via HDMI and the audio via optical to the receiver. for the PC i might have to do it that way anyway since i think it can't output HD audio via HDMI.

having said that, i would prefer routing everything through the receiver.

appreciate if anyone can clarify this for me. thanks.

The audio for your PC is going to have to come out separately. Unless your video card also does audio .

Edited September 16, 2009 by BeyondTheGrave

[Dangard Ace]

Copy and Paste from avsforums.

HDMI 1.0

Released December 2002.

* Single-cable digital audio/video connection with a maximum bitrate of 4.9Gbps. Supports up to 165Mpixels/sec video (1080p60Hz or UXGA) and 8-channel/192kHz/24-bit audio.

[edit] HDMI 1.1

Released May 2004.

* Added support for DVD Audio.

[edit] HDMI 1.2

Released August 2005.

* Added support for One Bit Audio, used on Super Audio CDs, up to 8 channels.

* Availability of HDMI Type A connector for PC sources.

* Ability for PC sources to use native RGB color-space while retaining the option to support the YCbCr CE color space.

* Requirement for HDMI 1.2 and later displays to support low-voltage sources.

[edit] HDMI 1.2a

Released December 2005.

* Fully specifies Consumer Electronic Control (CEC) features, command sets, and CEC compliance tests.

[edit] HDMI 1.3

Released 22 June 2006.[7] [8]

* Increases single-link bandwidth to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbps)

* Optionally supports 30-bit, 36-bit, and 48-bit xvYCC with Deep Color or over one billion colors, up from 24-bit sRGB or YCbCr in previous versions.

* Incorporates automatic audio syncing (lip sync) capability.

* Supports output of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio streams for external decoding by AV receivers.[9] TrueHD and DTS-HD are lossless audio codec formats used on HD DVDs and Blu-ray Discs. If the disc player can decode these streams into uncompressed audio, then HDMI 1.3 is not necessary, as all versions of HDMI can transport uncompressed audio.

* Availability of a new mini connector for devices such as camcorders.[10]

* The Sony PlayStation 3 is the first product available on consumer market with HDMI 1.3.[11]

* Epson has released the EMP-TW1000 as the first display supporting 30-bit deep color.[12]

[edit] HDMI 1.3a

Released 10 November 2006.[13]

* Cable and Sink modifications for Type C

* Source termination recommendation

* Removed undershoot and maximum rise/fall time limits.

* CEC capacitance limits changed

* RGB video quantization range clarification

* CEC commands for timer control brought back in an altered form, audio control commands added.

* Concurrently released compliance test specification included.

Basically you're losing Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HDMA. If your AV receiver doesn't support it you won't miss it. I love DTS-HDMA.

[Major Focker]

thanks for the replies.

player does the audio decoding and sends it to the receiver, hence i still get Dolby True HD and DTS-HDMA.

and yeah, audio from the PC will have to come out separately.

so, does this mean setup is running at 1.2 right now?

delayed reaction: ooh, 12 monkeys is out

[Wes]

The audio for your PC is going to have to come out separately. Unless your video card also does audio .

You can connect the SPDIF on the mobo to most of the newer videocards, and it'll output over the DVI->HDMI adapter the card comes with. i'm doing that setup.

[Major Focker]

You can connect the SPDIF on the mobo to most of the newer videocards, and it'll output over the DVI->HDMI adapter the card comes with. i'm doing that setup.

that's quite promising. will look into that when i shop for PC parts.

does that work for HD audio, and if so, will it pass-through undecoded streams (for decoding in the receiver)? or does the decoding have to happen on the mobo/soundcard and it's already a PCM stream being sent through the video card route?

[Wes]

that's quite promising. will look into that when i shop for PC parts.

does that work for HD audio, and if so, will it pass-through undecoded streams (for decoding in the receiver)? or does the decoding have to happen on the mobo/soundcard and it's already a PCM stream being sent through the video card route?

It's off your sound source, most mobo's have it, some soundcards, so no the videocard won't encode but I don't know the output quality.

[David Hingtgen]

Question for those who have kept up on the latest HDTV tech:

My parents are planning on getting a new TV for Xmas, and have asked me to pick it out for them. Now as I'm only familiar with the small-mid sizes, I only know LCDs. This new TV will probably be a 46in (maybe 40-42), and it will be viewed off-axis a LOT. Primarily in fact. IIRC plasmas deal better with off-axis, but I've also seen that even compared to my TV, new LCDs are better at off-axis than they were. Still---do plasmas still have a notable advantage in off-axis viewing? That is frankly the main concern with this TV, everything else doesn't matter. In short---what is the best 40-46in TV out there for off-axis viewing?

PS---are all the "winter" TV sets out now, or will there be a big influx of new models in the next month or two? TVs were down to a 9-month model cycle last I checked, and I don't know when the last "reset" was in the stores.

[Gaijin]

Question for those who have kept up on the latest HDTV tech:

My parents are planning on getting a new TV for Xmas, and have asked me to pick it out for them. Now as I'm only familiar with the small-mid sizes, I only know LCDs. This new TV will probably be a 46in (maybe 40-42), and it will be viewed off-axis a LOT. Primarily in fact. IIRC plasmas deal better with off-axis, but I've also seen that even compared to my TV, new LCDs are better at off-axis than they were. Still---do plasmas still have a notable advantage in off-axis viewing? That is frankly the main concern with this TV, everything else doesn't matter. In short---what is the best 40-46in TV out there for off-axis viewing?

PS---are all the "winter" TV sets out now, or will there be a big influx of new models in the next month or two? TVs were down to a 9-month model cycle last I checked, and I don't know when the last "reset" was in the stores.

The schedule for TV models being introduced is off. Sony's high end XBR 11 & 12's are delayed; Vizio's that were supposed to hit summer are only now beginning to slowly appear. There a bunch of models that were supposed to be here or announced that haven't arrived yet.

As far as off-axis viewing, Plasma doesn't have quite he advantage it used to. They are the next breed that will die soon. Id just recommend going to the stores and viewing them off axis as you said everything else for them is quite moot.

[Major Focker]

yeah, LCDs have closed the gap with plasma on off-axis viewing.

what you probably should look into is the "finish" on the screen. many LCDs (and some plasmas) come with a super gloss or polished screen which enhances brightness and sharpness, but unfortunately unless it's in a dark room the reflections can be annoying. off-axis, it might just make the screen unwatchable. imagine if you were to one side of the screen and opposite you is a window. when you look at the screen, you will see the reflection of that window, specially if you're watching a dark scene.

many plasmas don't have this gloss screen because they inherently don't have an issue with brightness, in fact many feature instead an anti-glare coating, precisely to avoid those reflections. there are probably LCDs too that have this anti-glare, but the gloss is the fad.

you're best bet really is to look at them in the showroom.

[CoryHolmes]

Question about HDMI and optical cables. I'm looking at upgrading the video card in my PC and the one I'm looking at has an HDMI-out port. My TV has several (so far unused) HDMI-in ports. That part is blindingly obvious but I'm curious about how I can get the 5.1 audio from my TV to my A/V receiver.

My TV, a Sony XBR 2, has an Optical-out port and my receiver has an Optical-in port. Can I just go right from the TV and into the receiver with just that audio cable, or do I need to look for a newer soundcard as well and go from the PC to the receiver?

EDIT: the other option, of course, is to go out and buy a new HDMI-capable receiver and go fro- no, wait. I'm already going to be spending enough money as it is.

Edited September 17, 2009 by CoryHolmes

[David Hingtgen]

Not my TV, but I'd really like to try to help fix it if I could-----this one has a fairly unique issue. Kind of cropped up recently. Basically---the right side got dim, about where pillarboxing occurs. I took a careful look, and drew this up to show the effect: (this is how it'd look if the TV was displaying pure white)

Now, this TV is fed almost pure HD 16:9, so pillarboxing would be occasional. Like mine, it's primarily a movies/gaming TV, with some HD primetime sports and shows. And it's only on the right side. Also, there's kind of a "band" at the border where it's ok. The upper right corner is fine. Also, near the bottom right, the TV tints everything a bit blue---if it's white, it's blue. If it's red, it'll show purple, if it's yellow, it'll show green.

Does anyone know what this is? Board just went psycho? Extremely weird persistent image? Specifically, it's a Samsung 26in, LN2651D I think is the model. (It's very similar to mine, mine's just a bit bigger and newer)

[eugimon]

Not my TV, but I'd really like to try to help fix it if I could-----this one has a fairly unique issue. Kind of cropped up recently. Basically---the right side got dim, about where pillarboxing occurs. I took a careful look, and drew this up to show the effect:

Now, this TV is fed almost pure HD 16:9, so pillarboxing would be occasional. And it's only on the right side. Also, there's kind of a "band" at the border where it's ok. The upper right corner is fine. Also, near the bottom right, the TV tints everything a bit blue---if it's white, it's blue. If it's red, it'll show purple, if it's yellow, it'll show green.

Does anyone know what this is? Board just went psycho? Extremely weird persistent image? Specifically, it's a Samsung 26in, LN2651D I think is the model. (It's very similar to mine, mine's just a bit bigger and newer)

Had a similar thing happen to me. The board is busted, call samsung, they'll have to replace it.

[David Hingtgen]

Well that was quick. That TV is 2, maybe even 3 years old. I don't know if he'll want to spend much on an out-of-warranty repair vs replacing it. (IMHO TV warrantys are ludicrously short--they cost a decent chunk and are expected to last---it'd be like if a brand-new car came with a 3 month/5000 mile warranty)

[eugimon]

Well that was quick. That TV is 2, maybe even 3 years old. I don't know if he'll want to spend much on an out-of-warranty repair vs replacing it. (IMHO TV warrantys are ludicrously short--they cost a decent chunk and are expected to last---it'd be like if a brand-new car came with a 3 month/5000 mile warranty)

luckily my TV went out on the last month of it's warranty and samsung ended up upgrading me to the next year's model and a larger size 46 -> 52.

you know, there's a chance that the stand peg could be pinching the feed cable to the screen causing the banding issue. If he's not gonna pay for the repair he might just want to take a look and see. On my unit, the problem actually went away when I resat the tv on the stand... I didn't tell samsung that though, I just fiddled with it until it came back.

Edited November 19, 2009 by eugimon

[Beltane70]

My DM from work told me that he had two Samsung TVs that wound up having bad boards. Sounds like a pretty common issue with Samsung HDTVs.

[Gaijin]

Sammy's have poor quality control. Great tech, great designs...iffy build at times.

[eugimon]

Sammy's have poor quality control. Great tech, great designs...iffy build at times.

meh, all the major brand TVs from that year had issues, sony's had clouding problems and sharp had banding issues.

[Gaijin]

meh, all the major brand TVs from that year had issues, sony's had clouding problems and sharp had banding issues.

True, but I notice Sammy's have always had QC issues. Even now, with the 8 series LED's. Unresponsive remotes, and bad firmware. Most common is the tv just plain dies within 2-3 years. Takes longer to start up, and then nothing.

Not saying, all manufacturers don't have issues, but everyone I know who has bought a Sammy hasn't had some type of issue.

[eugimon]

True, but I notice Sammy's have always had QC issues. Even now, with the 8 series LED's. Unresponsive remotes, and bad firmware. Most common is the tv just plain dies within 2-3 years. Takes longer to start up, and then nothing.

Not saying, all manufacturers don't have issues, but everyone I know who has bought a Sammy hasn't had some type of issue.

Well, I really can't speak to much of that. I know people don't like the samsung remotes (I don't) but I've never heard of them just not working. As for firmware.. yeah, samsung has had problems in the past too releasing firmware updates without a proper QC check but I've read of a lot of instances on the AVS forums of people using the wrong update as well.

I just know that it does seem that the series TV that David's friend has problems but that all the tv's from that year had issues. I haven't had any since I got my replacement unit.

[Gaijin]

Went shopping at the Sears friends and family night last week to replace my old 50" Panny 720p LCD projection which will now take duty in my mother's house. Great TV that Panny, but it was time for an upgrade.

Looked at the Sammy 55" 8500 LED which looked great, but the super glossy screen (picture windows in the living room would require the blinds closed during the day for the glare.) and the $4,000 price tag just didn't seem worth it. Black levels were great, but honestly, side by side next to a Panny Plasma, and a Z series Bravia it wasn't a major jump. Hated the glossy remote.

That left the Sony 52" XBR9. I loved the look of the XBR9, the semi glossy screen, and the ability to stream Netflix and Amazon video straight from the TV was icing on the cake. I know the XBR 10 LED is out, and the 11 and 12's with LED's are coming but the price was way too good.

Arrives in December as it wasn't in stock at the time. Had to get a new stand too, so picked that up from Amazon. C'mon hurry up December.

[David Hingtgen]

I think the semi-gloss screens are the best compromise. Really gloss=reflections, but really flat=any light it picks up gets spread over a large area of the screen.

Screen "shine" was a pretty big consideration when I picked up mine. (I don't like the glossy-black Samsung remotes either, but it's remarkably fingerprint-free---deals with them 10x better than a PS3 does) (Samsung changes their screen glossiness a lot lately--I think I got one of the last models with the "good" type of screen---even other models from that year had the newer-but-worse type)

[Gaijin]

I think the semi-gloss screens are the best compromise. Really gloss=reflections, but really flat=any light it picks up gets spread over a large area of the screen.

Screen "shine" was a pretty big consideration when I picked up mine. (I don't like the glossy-black Samsung remotes either, but it's remarkably fingerprint-free---deals with them 10x better than a PS3 does) (Samsung changes their screen glossiness a lot lately--I think I got one of the last models with the "good" type of screen---even other models from that year had the newer-but-worse type)

I agree, the semi gloss seems to be the way to go.

The other thing that bothered me with the LED sammy and I noticed it with the LG LED as well, was the off angle viewing was poor. LIke, move one seat over and a noticeable drop in quality. I didn't notice such a drop with the Triluminous Sony XBR 8 LED last year, but that set was priced for a king.

[David Hingtgen]

LED backlighting seems nice, but I don't see a massive jump--it's still not implemented as well as it should be. Should basically give an LED to each pixel. THEN it'd be impressive as heck. OLED is still "5 years away"--which is what they said 5 years ago, and I think 10 years a go...