Hi-Def and Home Theater Thread 2

[eugimon]

yup and not all DVDs are equal, some have horrible encoding that doesn't look bad on an SD tv but no amount of upscaling will make it look good on a big HD set.

[David Hingtgen]

IMHO, 99% of the "regular DVD sucks on an HDTV" comments come from people who have their TV set to "ultra-contrast mega-bright dynamic-super-awesome mode!!!!". That will make anything that's not 1080p60 look like crap, as it makes even slight flaws 100x worse. But simply turning everything "off" and watching things "normally"---most DVD looks just fine on a HD set.

Too many people don't seem to realize that "making the grass look THAT green" is screwing things up---grass isn't really that green in the real world! Even the fake ultra-green better-than-real grass at Disney World isn't that green. If it's THAT green on your TV, then you've screwed with the image. But it sells sets, which is why every demo at BestBuy etc has football featured, with ULTRA GREEN grass...

[eugimon]

IMHO, 99% of the "regular DVD sucks on an HDTV" comments come from people who have their TV set to "ultra-contrast mega-bright dynamic-super-awesome mode!!!!". That will make anything that's not 1080p60 look like crap, as it makes even slight flaws 100x worse. But simply turning everything "off" and watching things "normally"---most DVD looks just fine on a HD set.

Too many people don't seem to realize that "making the grass look THAT green" is screwing things up---grass isn't really that green in the real world! Even the fake ultra-green better-than-real grass at Disney World isn't that green. If it's THAT green on your TV, then you've screwed with the image. But it sells sets, which is why every demo at BestBuy etc has football featured, with ULTRA GREEN grass...

well yeah, but if go and find the 1st edition criterion Armageddon DVD, it's a pixelated mess, that's what I mean by poor encoding. There's other DVDs that received shoddy transfers, most are 1st gen DVDs but some like Armageddon try to cram too much on one disc and quality really suffers as a result.

[Gaijin]

well yeah, but if go and find the 1st edition criterion Armageddon DVD, it's a pixelated mess, that's what I mean by poor encoding. There's other DVDs that received shoddy transfers, most are 1st gen DVDs but some like Armageddon try to cram too much on one disc and quality really suffers as a result.

That one, Episode I, The Rock (1st release)...so many poor ones...even worse are the non anamorphic widescreen ones. That meant jack to me when I had a 4:3 tube...now with a 16:9 set, you get a letterbox IN a box.

[VT 1010]

IMHO, 99% of the "regular DVD sucks on an HDTV" comments come from people who have their TV set to "ultra-contrast mega-bright dynamic-super-awesome mode!!!!". That will make anything that's not 1080p60 look like crap, as it makes even slight flaws 100x worse. But simply turning everything "off" and watching things "normally"---most DVD looks just fine on a HD set.

Too many people don't seem to realize that "making the grass look THAT green" is screwing things up---grass isn't really that green in the real world! Even the fake ultra-green better-than-real grass at Disney World isn't that green. If it's THAT green on your TV, then you've screwed with the image. But it sells sets, which is why every demo at BestBuy etc has football featured, with ULTRA GREEN grass...

You're right, to a degree. When it comes to a properly adjusted display, that can make a huge difference. Many DVDs were being ruined by inaccurate displays and the same thing happens with HD material. Throwing resolution and color at the problem won't help. If only many of the "grain-haters" realized this... The main reason TVs have a torch mode is to differentiate them from each other. If all TVs were accurately calibrated, they wouldn't look that different (although there certainly would still be differences). They even add special "features" to compensate for these inaccuracies.

As a side note, some people are so used to "torch mode" that they think it looks wrong when a display is more accurate and will occasionally go back to their old settings or set.

I'm apparently that 1% that has a nicely adjusted display (DVE and user menu only, at the moment. I Can't afford a professional calibration yet. It's still a huge improvement over torch mode), yet still thinks DVD looks poor. I've gotten so used to scrutinizing Blu-ray transfers that it's easy to spot problems on DVD. Once you get used to Blu-ray, DVD seems a little "dull". To add to this, 90% of all DVDs seem to have some sort of ringing. I have a 73" 1080P HDTV and I sit about 7'-8' away, so this doesn't help things either. On a smaller display and/or a larger viewing distance, DVD is more acceptable.

It's not a scam but unless you spend the money for a really good upconverting deck, you might not see much difference from what your own TV can do.

Yes, this is a part what I was saying, but eugimon was able to say it in one sentence.

[eugimon]

That one, Episode I, The Rock (1st release)...so many poor ones...even worse are the non anamorphic widescreen ones. That meant jack to me when I had a 4:3 tube...now with a 16:9 set, you get a letterbox IN a box.

yup, some DVDs are just so bad they'll make your state of the art TV look like an old HPA screen from 1998. It just doesn't matter how well calibrated your set is, if the source material is crap there's only so much tinkering you can do.

[Dangard Ace]

yup, some DVDs are just so bad they'll make your state of the art TV look like an old HPA screen from 1998. It just doesn't matter how well calibrated your set is, if the source material is crap there's only so much tinkering you can do.

cough cough ALIENS cough cough.

[VT 1010]

cough cough ALIENS cough cough.

It needs a Blu-ray release so bad. 2009 is the 30th anniversary of Alien...

[Dangard Ace]

It needs a Blu-ray release so bad. 2009 is the 30th anniversary of Alien...

I hope so. Upconverting that beloved movie is painful.

In other news,

DA' HELL?! (click on the link for pics).

First Hybrid Blu-ray/DVD Movie Title Announced For Japan

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Detai...px?NewsId=24560

Japanese entertainment software developer Pony/Canon will release the first movie title on a hybrid Blu-ray/DVD disc in Japan in February, in an effort to accelerate the transition from the DVD to the Blu-ray format.

The Hybrid Blu-ray/DVD disc is a combination of a traditional DVD with the new high-definition Blu-ray format. Originally developed by JVC more than two years ago, the disc has a blue laser top layer (25GB); underneath there are two more layers just like an ordinary DVD (8.5GB). The Blu-ray and DVD layers are separated by a semi-reflective film that reflects blue light while it allows the red light to pass through the DVD layer underneath. The disc conforms to the "Blu-ray Disc, Hybrid Format" specifications released by the Blu-ray Disc Association.

The Hybrid BD/DVD disc is compatible with current DVD and Blu-ray players. Infiniti storage media claims that it achieves a compatibility of 99% according to tests made on 64 Blu-ray and DVD players.

The structure of the disc allows for easy manufacturing as well. According to Infinity, Blu-Ray's double layer can be manufactured as double layer, without needing to produce a double line up for discs. The DVD layers of the disc are stacked together with the BD layer.

Using a single layer for the Blu-ray content required the use of a new efficient video-encoding algorithm, since the provided capacity (25GB) was not enough. Provided that the specific title is not very demanding in terms of bandwidth, it was decided to use JVC's "Intelligent HD encoding technology", a technology based on the MPEG-4 AVC (H.264) specifications. According to JVC, the technology compresses a full HD image of 1,920 x 1,080 pixels and 24p/60i into about 12-24Mbps.

However, the first hybrid releases will be quite expensive. Pony/Canyon said that the fist movie package to be released in February would include a set of four hybrid discs (MPEG-4 AVC, Dolby Digital, 534 minutes in total) that will cost around 36,540 Yen ($406), while the DVD version (7 DVD discs, 534 minutes, Dolby Digital) will retail for 23,940 Yen ($266).

More information on the specific releases is available at http://www.ponycanyon.co.jp/

[mikeszekely]

DA' HELL?!

That's great news. I've got one Blu-ray player, but four DVD-playing devices hooked up to my TV... not to mention a pair of desktops, a pair of laptops, and a DVD player in the bedroom. One of the reasons I was originally in the HD-DVD camp was the dual-format discs. It's great that they're making hybrid Blu-rays, although I think I'd rather flip it and have the full 50GB for Blu-ray. If that were even possible.

[VT 1010]

I hope so. Upconverting that beloved movie is painful.

In other news,

DA' HELL?! (click on the link for pics).

For HD DVD, this caused more harm than good. Blu-ray is already quite expensive compared to its DVD counterpart; adding more to the price isn't going to help things (Japanese BDs never were cheap anyway). I often heard of HD DVD combo discs having reliability issues too. Considering the physical differences in manufacturing between Blu-ray and HD DVD, I can't help but be worried. And to top it all off, there's only a single layer for Blu-ray. Even HD DVD had two layers on its combo disk.

HD DVD combo disks might have worked, if they only released them, instead of the regular DVDs. Since they didn't do that, people continued to buy the cheaper alternative. Of course, there was also some confusion between HD DVD and DVD as well.

Outside of a pretty small market, I don't see this catching on. Why can't people learn from past mistakes? I thought the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results each time...

[Grand Admiral]

I've been pretty conservative with regard to HD. I waited until there was a clear victor in the HD-DVD/BD competition.

I'm going to upgrade to a BD player probably soon after Christmas.

I've made the decision to buy all my future movie purchases on BD, but only upgrade select movies from DVD to BD, and only when carefully considering reviews online and making sure they have quality transfers. I've read a few articles online about some of the studios just ripping the DVD release to a BD disc.

[VT 1010]

I've been pretty conservative with regard to HD. I waited until there was a clear victor in the HD-DVD/BD competition.

I'm going to upgrade to a BD player probably soon after Christmas.

I've made the decision to buy all my future movie purchases on BD, but only upgrade select movies from DVD to BD, and only when carefully considering reviews online and making sure they have quality transfers. I've read a few articles online about some of the studios just ripping the DVD release to a BD disc.

Technically, the studios have only upscaled a couple of SD sources for release. It's a very small number. Excluding those poor examples, even some of the worst Blu-ray (and HD DVD) titles will be an improvement over their SD counterparts (sometimes, it just isn't much of an improvement). Even the edge enhanced atrocity known as The Dark Knight is an improvement over the DVD.

The only time I thought the DVD looked better than the BD was when I watched Robocop. The DTS core track was awfully flat, dull, and really weak. The film won an Oscar for Sound Effects Editing and was nominated for Best Sound, yet this BD sounded like crap. The color timing was way off too, with this orange-ish look. This transfer doesn't do the film justice. I will say, however, the Blu-ray was more sharp and detailed.

Despite the many poor examples, most Blu-ray movies look quite good. They may not all be of reference quality, but most are better than DVD.

Welcome to Blu-ray. Once you get used to high quality HD movies, you won't stand for any less. Trust me...

Edited December 20, 2008 by VT 1010

[mikeszekely]

For HD DVD, this caused more harm than good. Blu-ray is already quite expensive compared to its DVD counterpart; adding more to the price isn't going to help things (Japanese BDs never were cheap anyway). I often heard of HD DVD combo discs having reliability issues too. Considering the physical differences in manufacturing between Blu-ray and HD DVD, I can't help but be worried. And to top it all off, there's only a single layer for Blu-ray. Even HD DVD had two layers on its combo disk.

HD DVD combo disks might have worked, if they only released them, instead of the regular DVDs. Since they didn't do that, people continued to buy the cheaper alternative. Of course, there was also some confusion between HD DVD and DVD as well.

Outside of a pretty small market, I don't see this catching on. Why can't people learn from past mistakes? I thought the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results each time...

Barring reliability issues, I never understood why the studios backing HD-DVD didn't release the dual-format discs exclusively instead of DVDs. One of the main advantages of HD-DVD is that the discs were supposed to cost pennies more than the regular DVDs anyway. They shot themselves in the foot by charging that "next-gen premium" on HD-DVDs anyway, charging even more than the Blu-rays for the dual-format discs, while continuing to sell the DVDs for a third of the price.

You may be right about the industry bungling the Blu-ray hybrids back into oblivion, but cost shouldn't be the reason. As it stands, I think the prices of Blu-ray movies are still artificially high. At least Wal-Mart is starting to stock a section of $15 Blu-rays.

[Uxi]

Cost is the only reason. A DVD can be pressed for pennies and HD DVD combos were said to be about as expensive as BD50s ($1-3 each), depending who you spoke with. Given the volume, DVD is output at on a major title, you're talking serious bucks. During the format war, numbers were miniscule for both sides. Only recently have then begun to rise.

The whole cost advantage thing the HDDVD guys were trumping wasn't about retail price or the consumer end (for which there wasn't an appreciable difference between the two), but on the producers end, particularly once things began to scale to mass adoption. Some of the HDDVD guys actually Blu-ray would NOT be able to scale up, though that's clearly been a non-issue for things like Iron Man and Dark Knight and, thus won't be...

[David Hingtgen]

Dark Knight has severe edge enhancement? Damn it. Seriously, instead of "pan and scan" and "widescreen", nowadays they should offer "normal" and "we went crazy with the unsharp mask option".

[VT 1010]

Dark Knight has severe edge enhancement? Damn it. Seriously, instead of "pan and scan" and "widescreen", nowadays they should offer "normal" and "we went crazy with the unsharp mask option".

The IMAX version already had artificial sharpening for the non-IMAX scenes. So, they added edge enhancement to something that was already artificially sharpened. On the other hand, at least it didn't have any DNR...

[Uxi]

Apparently it's due to the combination of 35mm and IMAX. You should probably watch it. I can spot some of the halo'ing but that's decidedly minor IMO. A bigger issue is more like DNR that was applied. In any case, I don't find it particularly egregious. Looks and sounds great, especially the IMAX portions. Could it be better? Yes. Is it horrible? Not at all.

[Roy Focker]

When you play the disc things move pretty fast on the screen. With all the action you're not gonna notice it.

[Beltane70]

I finally joined the HDTV club this weekend. I bought a 32" Sharp Aquos. Now I have to get a longer HDMI cable so I can actually connect my XBox 360 to it without moving the 360 from its present location. I also plan on buying a second computer cable so I can also enjoy my PC on my new set.

The only thing that I'm disappointed about is the fact that I have one less set of inputs on my new TV, leaving me having to swap between my PS2 and my Wii.

[bandit29]

To anyone: avoid the "massive" Blu-ray "sale" at Bestbuy.com. What a rip off. All the movies are their normal prices(or higher) and they jacked up the MSRP to show the "savings"

[VT 1010]

Apparently it's due to the combination of 35mm and IMAX. You should probably watch it. I can spot some of the halo'ing but that's decidedly minor IMO. A bigger issue is more like DNR that was applied. In any case, I don't find it particularly egregious. Looks and sounds great, especially the IMAX portions. Could it be better? Yes. Is it horrible? Not at all.

I agree that the transfer isn't that horrible. I would not mind if it just had the ringing from the IMAX version, but they added extra sharpening. There was no real reason to add any edge enhancement. There is no excuse for it these days. This movie didn't need to have it; that's what irritates me. It's the principle of it.

DNR? I didn't notice any DNR applied. It still looks relatively grainy and detailed. Edge enhancement can cause detail to be lost though. After the Patton debacle, I'd be surprised if they used any major kind of DNR.

When you play the disc things move pretty fast on the screen. With all the action you're not gonna notice it.

The edge enhancement may not be an issue for some, but I can notice it quite easily (even when it's playing). It will often have a certain "look" to it. In addition, certain scenes can have painfully obvious ringing. I'm sure this will all be even more noticeable when I get my Home Theater built (whenever that will be...).

To anyone: avoid the "massive" Blu-ray "sale" at Bestbuy.com. What a rip off. All the movies are their normal prices(or higher) and they jacked up the MSRP to show the "savings"

This is why I prefer Amazon.

[Hikuro]

well I'm joining the bluray brigade. I picked up, I think its a samsung bp-1500 or something. I saw it on AOTS two weeks ago and got a good review as being on par with the PS3.

Got it for 199 usually 350, so I think that was a good deal, walmart had it for 248 as well.

I picked up HDMI cables too, which I think thats a mofo joke to not include cables!

supports 1080p, our tv is up to 720p...so I think I'm good.

Ethernet for updating, thatll be simple.

should be fun, I wanna get ironman, transformers, rambo, maybe another copy of batman...list goes on!

[Wes]

To anyone: avoid the "massive" Blu-ray "sale" at Bestbuy.com. What a rip off. All the movies are their normal prices(or higher) and they jacked up the MSRP to show the "savings"

Goes without saying.

[Coota0]

Anybody know anything about the Sony BDV-IS1000. Sony Site

I've been thinking about a BluRay system every since I bought an LCD TV, but we're trying to cut down on the amount of boxes under our TV. Does anyone know of any players that either have Wi-Fi or an ethernet port so that the player can be updated?

[VT 1010]

Does anyone know of any players that either have Wi-Fi or an ethernet port so that the player can be updated?

The PS3 has both.

[Roy Focker]

There are reports of problems with the Serenity Blu-Ray being played on the PS3.

Lucky me I got my copy in the mail and have a PS3. The following issues have been reported:

An extra feature called the Alliance Data Base won't play and the movie will freeze at about the 1:13 minute mark.

Haven't watched the movie but I watched the extras. The Alliance Data Base would not play. I followed a solution people posted on other forums. Delete the saved data on your PS3 for the disc. Put it back in and don't update for Blu-Ray live when prompt. Yes you either get to see the data base or Blu-Ray not both. I'll still need to see if it freezes during play.

[eugimon]

There are reports of problems with the Serenity Blu-Ray being played on the PS3.

Lucky me I got my copy in the mail and have a PS3. The following issues have been reported:

An extra feature called the Alliance Data Base won't play and the movie will freeze at about the 1:13 minute mark.

Haven't watched the movie but I watched the extras. The Alliance Data Base would not play. I followed a solution people posted on other forums. Delete the saved data on your PS3 for the disc. Put it back in and don't update for Blu-Ray live when prompt. Yes you either get to see the data base or Blu-Ray not both. I'll still need to see if it freezes during play.

thanks for the heads up. I guess I'll wait to see how this plays out before I get a copy.

[David Hingtgen]

Anyone know of a screen size calculator that can handle viewing distance? As in, if I have a 32in screen 8ft away, what size screen do I need to "look the same size" at 12ft away?

[Gaijin]

Anyone know of a screen size calculator that can handle viewing distance? As in, if I have a 32in screen 8ft away, what size screen do I need to "look the same size" at 12ft away?

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-3fxTH92dgo9/l..._placement.html

But I personally think 52" at 12 feet is fine.

[Dangard Ace]

I hate and love Disney at the same time. I love them that they're bringing out the movies I want on BD, I hate that Incredibles isn't one of them.

and I like the way they're doing Combo. No digitial copy but a straight DVD.

http://www.thehdroom.com/news/disney_tease...-ray_slate/4084

Disney Teases 2009 Blu-ray Slate

January 06, 2009

We count on the annual Consumer Electronics Show (CES) to generate at least one big studio Blu-ray Disc announcement. Last year Disney came through by teasing multiple titles throughout the coming year. This year they've done the same.

Disney's first Blu-ray announcement is confirming at least three upcoming releases, High School Musical 3: Senior Year (February 17), Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition (March 10) and Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs: Platinum Edition (October) will be released as "Combo Packs" that include both a Blu-ray Disc and standalone DVD version of the film. This brings back memories of HD DVD Combo Discs only the DVD version sits on a separate disc rather than the "flip-side" of the main disc. Last fall's Sleeping Beauty was the first Disney Blu-ray Disc release to include both standard and high-def versions.

Disney goes on to confirm that Digital Copies will continue into 2009 on at least 14 titles including High School Musical 3: Senior Year, Beverly Hills Chihuahua, Monsters Inc., and A Bugs Life. That's right; both Pixar catalog titles are confirmed for 2009. The late 2009 release of Up creates a Pixar Blu-ray trifecta, though oddly missing is Finding Nemo which at one time was scheduled for a Blu-ray release in late 2007 and then spring 2008.

Other catalog titles confirmed for release in 2009 include Microcosmos (Miramax); Rounders 10th Anniversary Edition (Miramax); Lost: The Complete First and Second Seasons (ABC); Sin City (Miramax); Miracle (Walt Disney Pictures); Sling Blade (Miramax); The Greatest Game Ever Played (Walt Disney Pictures); Pulp Fiction Special Edition (Miramax) and Good Will Hunting Special Edition (Miramax).

Confirmed for a theatrical release is Morning Light (summer) and although not mentioned in the release, Bolt (March 24).

Will pass along individual announcements for all of these titles as they are made. So far it looks like a great year for Blu-ray from the Mouse House.

[eugimon]

Any news or rumors on what's holding up Finding Nemo for blu-ray? Finding Nemo and Incredibles are the two Pixar movies I would really want on blu-ray.

[bandit29]

Well we knew this was coming..

Warner Home Video has announced that they will bring 'Batman: The Motion Picture Anthology' to Blu-ray on March 10th. This box set will feature the four Batman feature films made between 1989-1997 - 'Batman', 'Batman Returns', 'Batman Forever', and 'Batman & Robin' - in 1.85:1 1080p VC-1 accompanied by 5.1 Dolby TrueHD soundtracks.

This five-disc set (one of the films will come a two-disc set, while the others will only be one BD-50) features the following special features:

* 18 Hours of Must See Profiles, Documentaries, and Making-of Featurettes

* Director's Commentary by Tim Burton and Joel Schumacher

* 9 Music Videos

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=2249

One of these films will be worth it, one might be worth it and the other two, no matter what definition they are, will still be terrible..lol

[bandit29]

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Dis...ay_Release/2443

hooray. glad I held off from buying the import

Making full use of Blu-ray's capabilities, Dimension will release both the theatrical and "recut" versions of the film, each receiving their own BD-50 dual-layer disc with 1080p/AVC MPEG-4 video and English DTS-HD Lossless Master Audio 5.1 Surround audio.

Full extras have not been detailed, but among the bonus features confirmed are two audio commentaries on the theatrical cut, an interactive "Kill 'Em All" comic book, four featurettes, filmmaker interviews, and all of the additional extras from the previous DVD release.

Exclusive to the Blu-ray will be a "Cine-Explore" mode (Bonus View) on the theatrical version.

Suggested retail price for the Blu-ray has been set at $35.98.

[MacrossMan]

So I was looking for a fairly inexspensive TV to go in my son's playroom. The last TV I purchased was a Pioneer 43" PureVision plasma in March of 2005 (paid just $4000.00 online; excellent price at the time). As I begin reading up on the technology I find out LCD has gotten a lot better and is cheaper than plasma. Long story short, looking for an inexpensive set lands me in the neighborhood of Vizio which I had heard wasn't all that great. I then find about their new XVT series of sets. The major reviews were encouraging, so I start searching online. I ended up finding a site that sells refurbished sets for far below retail with the same manufacturer's warranty. I ended up paying under $700 for Vizio's 42" XVT series. All I can say is WOW! BUY THIS SET!

The reveiws I read touched on the TV's 3-D like images and I did not understand until I saw it for myself. The images from the TV look as if one could stick their hand or head into the screen. I've only been able to see what the set is capable of using 720p HD and an up-convert DVD player connected using HDMI. Movies now look like they were taken from the video they use for "The Making of" stuff. The light is different and everything! The clarity is so amazing that any computer generated stuff that was convincing before is now exposed. There is precise seperation and depth in an Pixar movies. All the new Star Wars' computer generated stuff looks phony on this TV using its 120hz refresh rate.

There is even a 3-D'ish look to the old Macross DVD's! More depth. Again, almost like you can put your hand into the TV; with 3-D glasses!

I would recommend this TV to anyone looking to purchase a flat panel set. The price is great, the quality is superb, and you won't be disappointed!