Hi-Def and Home Theater Thread 2

[Gaijin]

LED backlighting seems nice, but I don't see a massive jump--it's still not implemented as well as it should be. Should basically give an LED to each pixel. THEN it'd be impressive as heck. OLED is still "5 years away"--which is what they said 5 years ago, and I think 10 years a go...

Yeah, by the time my new tv is on it's way out, will be when 3D OLED should be in...I can wait.

I'm more excited for my XBR9 than a future LED...

Edited November 23, 2009 by Gaijin

[the white drew carey]

Hey guys!

Maybe I using the wrong search criteria or something, but I'm curious if anyone knows where I can get information on dual-voltage home cinema systems. We had to hand off my trusty old Aiwa shelf system when we moved here to France, but the wife is kind of against getting a new one if we're only going to be able to use it in the time we are living here. However, if I can find a reasonably priced dual-voltage system that we can take back to the states, that would be helpful in my argument for getting a new one.

Any help or direction would be greatly appreciated!

[azrael]

Hey guys!

Maybe I using the wrong search criteria or something, but I'm curious if anyone knows where I can get information on dual-voltage home cinema systems. We had to hand off my trusty old Aiwa shelf system when we moved here to France, but the wife is kind of against getting a new one if we're only going to be able to use it in the time we are living here. However, if I can find a reasonably priced dual-voltage system that we can take back to the states, that would be helpful in my argument for getting a new one.

Any help or direction would be greatly appreciated!

You might want to try looking for one of these: http://www.world-import.com/stereo.htm

Or use a power converter: http://www.dvdoverseas.com/voltage_converters.htm

[Wes]

Anybody know about electronics shopping in Japan? I've got orders there for mid next year, I wanted to get this sexy beast -PT-AE4000 review but I wonder if it'll be cheaper over there/maybe better waiting for next year's model, or I should get it over here. Won't be able to use it for awhile.

[Dangard Ace]

Anyone ever use flat speaker wire?

I'm looking at them and can't find any comparisons between taperwire, Acoustic Research, and Cables Unlimited Superflat.

[David Hingtgen]

Speaker/sound question:

The DVD of Transformers(2007) was notable for being just plain "flat" soundwise---most noticeable in the opening scene of Blackout attacking the base. Even just listening to the speakers on 20in CRT revealed "issues" with the audio mix.

Anyways, IMHO the Blu-Ray of Revenge of the Fallen isn't that much better. Specifically, Prime's "I'll take you all on!" line is pretty quiet. But I remember hearing it *clearly* in the theater---I think everyone did, as it seemed to be about the most-quoted and favorite line--and he didn't quietly whisper it. But even turning the volume up to double what I have it set at for the movie---it's still pretty quiet. Is the mix just off, is there some setting in my PS3 or TV that's really wrong, or is it absolutely impossible to get decent volume out of the dialogue in that scene without some sort of receiver or something? (and if so, why do the Transformers movies have such problems with making stuff sound decent?) No other DVD nor BluRay that I own has such noticeable differences in the audio mix---loud things are quiet and quiet things are loud, compared to the theater----I'm not talking about "lack of bass" or anything, but just raw "volume relative to other aspects".

[Gaijin]

I'll agree with the TF DVD.

But my ROTF BD is actually reeeeally frakkin' loud. Especially that line you mentioned. How is your sound system set up anyways?

[David Hingtgen]

Well, I just moved my PS3 to test a different TV and used ROTF for reference, and that one was simply "PS3 to TV, via HDMI". Tried several of the TV's own sound settings, including "normal" "clear voice" and "movie".

But my own TV was the same.

[Gaijin]

Well, I just moved my PS3 to test a different TV and used ROTF for reference, and that one was simply "PS3 to TV, via HDMI". Tried several of the TV's own sound settings, including "normal" "clear voice" and "movie".

But my own TV was the same.

Well, through the TV speakers, I'm not sure you'll get much. Through a center speaker, it's much more defined, but even with just my TV, that line seems quite prominent compared to the other dialogue. You can boost the audio a bit with the BD menu on the PS3...that actually helped my friend who complained of something similar. His dialogue was quiet compared to everything else (even set to 2 channel) until he +2'd the setting.

[David Hingtgen]

I think I already did have dialogue boosted, but it may have been reset when I last "auto'd" the audio settings. (Street Fighter IV was giving me some weird issues, and I re-did a lot of audio settings)

[Gaijin]

I think I already did have dialogue boosted, but it may have been reset when I last "auto'd" the audio settings. (Street Fighter IV was giving me some weird issues, and I re-did a lot of audio settings)

I recommend some speakers with some power. Even a cheapie home theater system will sound better than TV speakers. Or even the cheap sound bars aren't half bad for the price.

[Vince]

LED backlighting seems nice, but I don't see a massive jump--it's still not implemented as well as it should be. Should basically give an LED to each pixel. THEN it'd be impressive as heck. OLED is still "5 years away"--which is what they said 5 years ago, and I think 10 years a go...

I think it is already at major ball parks.

[VF-19]

I think it is already at major ball parks.

It has been for quite a while actually. The actual pixels ARE LEDs. It won't work for home use, however, as you'd need to be across the street in order not to see the pixels.

[David Hingtgen]

Exactly. Someone's got OLED's like that too, but the individual "pixels" are like 2ft by 2ft. They're intended for skyscraper-sized images.

[Vince]

Exactly. Someone's got OLED's like that too, but the individual "pixels" are like 2ft by 2ft. They're intended for skyscraper-sized images.

I'm sure I watch one of the 'How they made it' show on Discovery or something, it were actual LEDs on a big broad.

[VF-19]

I'm sure I watch one of the 'How they made it' show on Discovery or something, it were actual LEDs on a big broad.

I saw that episode too, but, getting one of those, will require some serious cash. All you're going to get with that is a monitor. No tuner, no speakers. You'll have to provide your own.

[Agent-GHQ]

I'm looking to buy my first HD TV 1080p and I was wondering which platform is best overall. The LCD or the Plasma? Any particular brand, make or model?

You're the expert so you know who you are! lol

[wm cheng]

How big were you thinking of going? Where will the TV be (in terms of ambient light and windows)? How far away will you sit from the TV? What is your primary source of viewing material? These are all factors that will affect the which platform, size, location and placement.

If size is a factor (and don't tell me it ain't - hehe) nothing beats front projection. It's by far the bestvalue price per inch and most closely approximates a "real" home theatre experience. I have a 100" electric screen (retractable into the ceiling - essential if you have kids! to keep fingerprints off of it) with a Panasonic PT-AE2000 1080p projector - with the lights out (and properly calibrated) its an amazing theatre experience sitting 12ft away, it fills your peripheral vision. In fact, its sharper than going to the theatre! My primary source is feature films and I have a dedicated basement home theatre that I can control the ambient light to total darkness - so this solution fits me. However the other drawback is projectors need their bulbs replaced every 5-10years (depending on your usage), and it could be as much as $500 to replace the bulb - but its a DIY job with most projectors now. There are mainly 3 technologies with projectors nowadays; LCD, LCOS and DLP. Each has its pros and cons - but I won't go into that on this quick summary.

Next down the line is Plasma - IMHO, still the better picture due to darker black levels, thereby giving you more "real-world" contrast. This dark level and contrast will only really be appreciated with feature films, if sports is your thing, then it doesn't matter as much because the fields are always brightly lit, so motion is more your concern. Pioneer Kuros used to be the king of all displays, but they've stopped making them (I think its too expensive to manufacture and they were making enough of a profit on them since they couldn't charge that much more than LCDs) - you can still find them new in boxes at the better stores. Panasonic is now the default king of Plasmas. Don't compare the contrast ratio numbers, each manufacturer measures them differently, and LCDs measures them differently than Plasmas - so forget the numbers and go and look at the screen yourself. Plasmas give a better picture quality, but usually have a glass front that isn't great with reflections, so you need to located them away from bright windows. But you don't need a darkened room to view them like projectors.

Lastly are LCDs - greatly improved over the last few years, so much so that some of the more expensive ones rival the Plasmas (plasmas are a much older technology and there hasn't been as much innovations since). Definitely look for local dimming LED backlights (for better black levels), they are the new standard to come in the next few years. Anything over 50" should definitely be 1080p while anything under won't really see a difference between 720p and 1080p. If sports is your thing, look into higher refresh rates to eliminate tearing and studder. LCDs are sharper per pixel than plasmas and have a square shape (not necessarily a good thing), as a result, older standard definition sources tend to have noticeable artifacting and pixelization (more detail requires better source material) - so look for sets that have good post processing to smooth these images out. The best thing about LCDs are the screens are usually fairly matte and attenuate reflections well, so they have more flexibility on placement relative to windows - although this matte screen is bad for kiddie fingerprints and its quite fragile and prone to scratching if you're not careful.

Just my own personal 2 cents, but definitely go to a decent home theatre store to look at them yourself. Even if you don't buy from them, look at the displays when they are properly calibrated, not at a Big Box Retailer where they are pumped to full brightness and contrast, but accurate colours be damned! Look at the displays with your intended source material and see how each set handles the various sources. There's still a lot of SD material out there, so how it handles standard definition is important, most sets handle 1080p material well since its the native resolution of the set and there's no/little processing involved. A good set should last you 10-20years, so I think its worth the investment. GOOD LUCK!

p.s. - Oh, don't get scammed into buying expensive HDMI cables, its the biggest crock out there ($100 Monster cables are rediculous) - it used to be the case with analogue cables that you need high quality ones (I've spend $300 on a uni-directional oxygen-free heavy gauge triple shielded RCA cable once!) but with digital HDMI, a decent one shouldn't cost you more than $10 from Monoprice. Digital means you either get the signal or not? If you get it, there's not quality difference - just a lot of marketing hype! Just make sure to get the HDMI version that your TV supports - it indicates the bandwidth capacity of the cable much like ethernet CAT 6 or 5e for gigabit.

[derex3592]

Cheng is the man, couldn't agree more with his post.....if you want huge size, and $$ isn't a factor, go with an LCD projector. However, a 65 inch plasma would not be a slouch.....I would go with Pionner ELITE, Panasonic professional series, or normal Pioneer isn't bad either. Or Sony....good luck, in your hunt....don't listen to most TV/electronics sales people, most all of them are complete idiots....

[Agent-GHQ]

How big were you thinking of going? Where will the TV be (in terms of ambient light and windows)? How far away will you sit from the TV? What is your primary source of viewing material? These are all factors that will affect the which platform, size, location and placement.

I'm looking to buy a bigger condominum at over 1800sqft so I thought I can use a 50'' HD TV. I will be living by myself, so no kids to put their dirty little finger prints on the TV. The condo that I have already put in my offer has good amount of natural sun light. So I will place the TV in the main room where the fireplace is as well. As to how far I will sit from the TV is about 15-20ft away. The primary source of viewing is for HD/Blu-Ray movies and the occasional PS3 and 360 gaming.

Will this HD Plasma TV fit best for my criteria: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Panasonic+-+VI...p;skuId=9236338

Edited January 18, 2010 by Agent-GHQ

[wm cheng]

Panasonic Plasmas are great, I can't believe how cheap they are now, the prices are really coming down. I'd worry about placement though. I don't get why everyone wants to put them above the fireplace - not an ideal location, the heat and soot particles coming from the opening isn't friendly to any electronics. I don't recommend ever putting any flatscreen above any fireplace, unless its a sealed gas unit that doesn't generate any heat. You should be concerned about where the windows are though, you mention a good amount of natural sun light, make sure the windows are not behind you, you might want to stick a mirror or piece of glass where you intend to have the screen and sit in your intended seating position to check for reflections and glare. They can be quite distracting. The Plasma in your link doesn't indicate any sort of anti-glare coating, so I would assume its just a straight piece of glass, just like the newer Mac screens - either you love them or hate them! If you only watch at night, then great, if you intend to watch in the daytime, then be wary of the windows relative to your seating position and screen location - especially with Plasma. At 15-20ft away, you could get by with a larger screen ;-) - from you Valk collection, I don't think $$$ is a problem for ya ;-) You won't regret it! Look though Monoprice.com - get your mount and cables there, don't let Best Buy talk you into their rip off prices, get a mount that can swing out so that you can make all your connections with the TV still mounted to the wall - don't cheap out for the non-adjustable mounts, its so much hassle to take the TV down everytime you want to access the back panel for connections (also the adjustments can also mitigate any off-axis glare - within reason).

[Vince]

I'm looking to buy a bigger condominum at over 1800sqft so I thought I can use a 50'' HD TV. I will be living by myself, so no kids to put their dirty little finger prints on the TV. The condo that I have already put in my offer has good amount of natural sun light. So I will place the TV in the main room where the fireplace is as well. As to how far I will sit from the TV is about 15-20ft away. The primary source of viewing is for HD/Blu-Ray movies and the occasional PS3 and 360 gaming.

Will this HD Plasma TV fit best for my criteria: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Panasonic+-+VI...p;skuId=9236338

50 is kind of small for 15 ft away

[Agent-GHQ]

I'm not easily con by those sales rep into buying crap I don't really need nor will improve drastically. Glad you caught that about whether the screen has anti-glare coating. I will research this later when I have the time. Personally, I don't like to drill holes into walls and putting this near 100lb TV on the wall. I'd rather buy a TV stand for it and be done with it. Remember, we can earth quake in Cali. I really don't have a need for a larger size screen nor is money the issue. I just thought I would take advantage of a reasonable priced HD Plasma TV.

Thanks for your help and the link!

[Agent-GHQ]

50 is kind of small for 15 ft away

What size do you recommend? I'm not really trying to make a theatre out of my home here nor do I want to drop more money on something that depreciate over time.

[shiroikaze]

50 is kind of small for 15 ft away

That seems like a reasonable size for the distance to me...

[derex3592]

That seems like a reasonable size for the distance to me...

I agree. I have a 50" Panasonic, and my main viewing distance is about 10 ft away, but I can see it from my dining room and kitchen also which are about 15-20 ft away..50 is a good size if you don't want something that overwhelms the room its in. 65" can look a little nuts in some rooms. Panasonic also makes 58" plasmas, might want to look at those....

[Agent-GHQ]

Hmmm.... and 58" er, eh! Wll look into that too.

[Vince]

What size do you recommend? I'm not really trying to make a theatre out of my home here nor do I want to drop more money on something that depreciate over time.

definitely 58 , sitting at 15 ft away watch movie with letter box and two black bars top and bottom of the screen make the ppl small. gaming with full screen is a different story.

since everything depreciate over time, and out of date as soon as you bought it, might as well buy the one you are most happy with right now.

go to the store and see how it feels

Edited January 19, 2010 by Vince

[Agent-GHQ]

I'll go check it out when hte price start to dip. It was on sale about 2wks back at SEARS for like $1200-

[David Hingtgen]

The finish of the screen is important, and there's more than simply glossy vs flat. There's many levels, even within brands. A fairly big factor for me was the finish of the screen on mine, since it sits right next to a window (but always with the blinds closed and at 90 degrees to it). My TV was about the last one Samsung made with that particular type of anti-glare----others made the same year were different (can't remember if they were shinier or duller) but they were inferior IMHO.

And too much anti-glare can be a bad thing, just like too little. It's a sliding scale. For light pointed at the screen----a TV can either reflect and show a clear image, or it can diffuse and show a blurry area of light. Extreme diffusion covers half the screen but is more subtle, but a very sharp reflection will be very small (but very obvious). Pick your poison, you can't have both. (my TV I think is actually on the more reflective end of the scale)

[spacemanoeuvres]

Before the holidays the Panasonic VIERA® 54" 1080p Plasma (TC-P54G10) could have been had (at sears) for less than $900, with a combination of sears card and bing cash back.

You can still find it for aroung $1,200; but it can prob be had for less if there's still some of them around for the super bowl sales.

I'm kicking myself for not buying one when it was less than $1,000. An outstanding value for that kind of money and I doubt you'll have an issue with screen size at 10-15'.

[VF-19]

Just remember, Plasmas are also somewhat touchy when their new. I found that mine was VERY sensitive to temporary image retention when I first started using it. Now, about 200 or so hours of use in, it's not nearly as sensitive, as it takes longer for the retention to occur.

Just remember to mix up your movies (or tv sources). Don't watch 2.4 to 1 ratio movies (letterbox) all the time, as you'll cause the top and bottom portions of your screen to age at different rates.

[Agent-GHQ]

The finish of the screen is important, and there's more than simply glossy vs flat. There's many levels, even within brands. A fairly big factor for me was the finish of the screen on mine, since it sits right next to a window (but always with the blinds closed and at 90 degrees to it). My TV was about the last one Samsung made with that particular type of anti-glare----others made the same year were different (can't remember if they were shinier or duller) but they were inferior IMHO.

And too much anti-glare can be a bad thing, just like too little. It's a sliding scale. For light pointed at the screen----a TV can either reflect and show a clear image, or it can diffuse and show a blurry area of light. Extreme diffusion covers half the screen but is more subtle, but a very sharp reflection will be very small (but very obvious). Pick your poison, you can't have both. (my TV I think is actually on the more reflective end of the scale)

Just remember, Plasmas are also somewhat touchy when their new. I found that mine was VERY sensitive to temporary image retention when I first started using it. Now, about 200 or so hours of use in, it's not nearly as sensitive, as it takes longer for the retention to occur.

Just remember to mix up your movies (or tv sources). Don't watch 2.4 to 1 ratio movies (letterbox) all the time, as you'll cause the top and bottom portions of your screen to age at different rates.

Not sure if I understood you guys here. Can you please rephrase?

[David Hingtgen]

Shorter version: There are a zillion different levels of how "reflective" a flat-screen is. Even similar models within a brand will differ. And it is purely personal preference---you may very well HATE the "latest and greatest" anti-glare technique on some models, etc. So LOOK at them in a well-lit store, don't go by what it says or what other people say. All screens look "reflectionless" in your typical "big wall of TV's in darkness" setup. Go somewhere like Sears, where they have often have TV's set up like they normally are in a living room, and see how they handle lights/reflections. (unless of course you always watch TV in a dark room with no windows, then it won't matter)

As for VF-19's caution---Plasmas are like CRT's, in that long-term exposure to a static image will "burn in" the image--only it's a bit different and called retention in flatscreens. But plasma's tend to be much more sensitive to it, especially early in their life. You have to "break them in" first. And the black bars from any non-16:9 source count as "static". (even LCD's can get retention, but it's harder and it usually goes away in a day if it happens)

[Agent-GHQ]

Ahhh, gotcha!