holytoledo69 Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Don't forget that we, the Mospeada fans, are all around our 30's now, which means we've just began to be a collector's market target for manufacturers with a few decades for milking ahead of us. It might take a few years, but I'm a patient guy. Heck! In 30 years from now Bandai may even release a super deluxe 1/35 Special Edition combo in a glass case for those among us who have a nice pension and a condo in Florida. Errr..I just turned 43 lol. I would love it if they came out with a 1/35 Alpha/Beta... And I hope Im still kicking when/if it does
sidearmsalpha Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 So I stupidly just went to fiddle with my MH Ride Armors and all I gave to say is good riddance, bring on the Beagle / Toynami... I was disappointed when I first started transforming and playing with these, but once I had them posed and on display with the stands (a must in Ride Armor mode), they look pretty cool. I won't be touching these again. I have Ley in the bike mode. I hope they make a Fuke version, but I'm dreading paying full price for this one. I managed to pick up the other 3 from a member here for less than $100.
RavenHawk Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Ok, so I put in some more time with the Shadow Alpha and blue Beta (Robotech Masterpiece Collection). As before, absolutely love the Beta. Still, only complaints are the connector boom sliding out of the Beta, and the slight flimsiness of the stand. To an earlier question, no problems with paint on the Alpha. Nothing broken. Looks great. Got the arms to fully extend. Not sure if I'm getting the legs to fully extend. Leg posability seems a little limited. Transforms fine now that I have the hang of it, but I can't seem to get the arms to fully close, and the lower torso to fully collapse, so that the arms can be fully collapsed in fighter mode. I am definitely happier with this than when I first unboxed it, but still have some issues.
Vermillion21 Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 My Beta is on its way, should arrive early next week ... can't wait ....
AcroRay Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) To an earlier question, no problems with paint on the Alpha. Nothing broken. Looks great. Got the arms to fully extend. Not sure if I'm getting the legs to fully extend. Leg posability seems a little limited. Transforms fine now that I have the hang of it, but I can't seem to get the arms to fully close, and the lower torso to fully collapse, so that the arms can be fully collapsed in fighter mode. Yeah, that lower torso collapse is a real bugger in the design. Make sure the little panel on the thing's butt is pulled outward flush & square. (It pushes inward to accomodate the bulge of the canopy in Battloid/Soldier mode.) If it's not normalled-up for Fighter, it can keep the torso from collapsing properly. A fully extended knee areas should look like the following pictures. Keep in mind the knee joint pulls down from inside the upper leg, and the lower leg pulls down from the knee. So you've got two stages there. Just for the heck of it, I took shots of fully extended bicep/shoulder areas, too. Keep in mind the knee joint pulls down from inside the upper leg, and the lower leg pulls down from the knee. So you've got two stages of extension there. When you say "Shadow Alpha", you're meaning the Shadow Chronicles Sterling Alpha, right? Not the Sue Graham "Shadow Fighter" Alpha, right? Edited January 2, 2009 by AcroRay
RavenHawk Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Yeah, that lower torso collapse is a real bugger in the design. Make sure the little panel on the thing's butt is pulled outward flush & square. (It pushes inward to accomodate the bulge of the canopy in Battloid/Soldier mode.) If it's not normalled-up for Fighter, it can keep the torso from collapsing properly. A fully extended knee areas should look like the following pictures. Keep in mind the knee joint pulls down from inside the upper leg, and the lower leg pulls down from the knee. So you've got two stages there. Just for the heck of it, I took shots of fully extended bicep/shoulder areas, too. Keep in mind the knee joint pulls down from inside the upper leg, and the lower leg pulls down from the knee. So you've got two stages of extension there. When you say "Shadow Alpha", you're meaning the Shadow Chronicles Sterling Alpha, right? Not the Sue Graham "Shadow Fighter" Alpha, right? Thanks, clearly the legs weren't fully extended. No, I DO mean the Sue Graham "Shadow Fighter" Alpha. Why?
AcroRay Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Thanks, clearly the legs weren't fully extended. No, I DO mean the Sue Graham "Shadow Fighter" Alpha. Why? 'Cause I thought you were talking about the new Shadow Chronicles variant, at one point. I'm eager to hear opinions about how the Sterling Alpha came out, QC wise. I like the color, and was hoping to pick one up.
docterteeth Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 I got my Beta last week and I'm very happy with it but like many others, had a few minor issues. I've learned a little tweaking to items can improve how much I like them. For anyone having problems with the support bar that holds the Alpha being loose when you slide it into the Beta, I found out scotch tape can help. Here's what you do: Put the bar into the Beta and determine exactly where on the bar is covered by the hole entrance. Take a little scotch tape and wrap it 1 length around that part. It won't take much. Now you can put the the tape all the way on the end of the bar but it’s a tighter fit on the arm that's near the mouth of the hole. A little trial and error will get it perfect. Do this and slide the bar back into the Beta and you'll find it creates a tension that holds it in place and makes it nice and snug. I have not had any problems since. And because the arm itself is in the hole, its hidden and you can't see the scotch tape. The other thing I did (temporarily) was to wrap a little plastic around the head of the Beta cockpit for when I have the Alpha and Beta connected in fighter mode. I took a litte bit of the plastic from the bag that held the manual and wrapped it around the cockpit head. I cut it and made a sheath out of it so I can slide it on and off. This way, when I dock the Alpha in fighter mode to the Beta, it doesn't scratch the yellow on the cockpit. The plastic is hidden since the cockpit is folded down between the Alpha's legs. Now its my intention to find a more permanent solution for that and find a way to cover up the yellow for when the Beta is in battloid mode but for the time being, it will due.
Totoro242 Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 'Cause I thought you were talking about the new Shadow Chronicles variant, at one point. I'm eager to hear opinions about how the Sterling Alpha came out, QC wise. I like the color, and was hoping to pick one up. The only pics I have seen so far show that its the worst MPC yet: From Bastien's Robotech Collections, Veritechs and Mechas website: http://www.robotechcollections.fr/galeries...a_mpc_TSC.shtml
AcroRay Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) I was inspired to do this today! Shot in my cold, wintery back yard and tweaked a bit in Photoshop. "Winter Shadow" The 1980's are alive and well in 2009.... Edited January 2, 2009 by AcroRay
AcroRay Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 The only pics I have seen so far show that its the worst MPC yet: From Bastien's Robotech Collections, Veritechs and Mechas website: http://www.robotechcollections.fr/galeries...a_mpc_TSC.shtml Good link. Wow, that's really terrible. I wonder if these were bum-rushed out with Aoshima's production run? They look like someone's home-made custom job. The super-glue hazing is much like what I saw on some of the worst Palisades Series 1 Micronaut failures.
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 I was inspired to do this today! Shot in my cold, wintery back yard and tweaked a bit in Photoshop. Hey how are the shoulders holding up on your Shadow MPC? Is the gun heavy enough to weigh down the arms(aside from the diecast in the forearm which really does not even need to be there).
AcroRay Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Hey how are the shoulders holding up on your Shadow MPC? Is the gun heavy enough to weigh down the arms(aside from the diecast in the forearm which really does not even need to be there). Shoulders are fine, and hold most poses I keep them in. If I fully extend the Shadow's right arm, it will droop a bit at the shoulder rotation joint, but that's about it. The Rook has no problems. Usually I pose them with their elbows tucked in, with their weapons either level or 'at attention' (I like that look, plus that's all the shelf space they have.), so they serve those positions well. My example is pretty close to optimal as far as the shoulders are concerned, I think (With both my Shadow and Rook). But I do agree that rachects would have worked better than whatever poly-cap sandwhich is doing the job now. Why didn't they do it that way? I suspect the racheting joint assembly would have just taken up too much space. I kind of wonder about the diecast in the forearm as well. Probably just there for some diecast presence, or maybe to stablize the fighter mode.
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 I kind of wonder about the diecast in the forearm as well. Probably just there for some diecast presence, or maybe to stablize the fighter mode. I think it is there just for diecast presence. After handling my Aoshima, I've noticed that the diecast is self defeating in the arms, on the right arm, the forearm piece does nothing but fall under it's own weight, swinging freely, which also brings the arm down if I have it posed aiming high. It does not help at all that the forearm uses tension to stay in place. The diecast in the legs is fine, it adds good heft and does nothing detrimental.
Vermillion21 Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 The only pics I have seen so far show that its the worst MPC yet: From Bastien's Robotech Collections, Veritechs and Mechas website: http://www.robotechcollections.fr/galeries...a_mpc_TSC.shtml I can't believe the continual crappy Alpha QC by Crapnami ....
Scream Man Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 i wetn back about 6 pages, and couldnt see a reference to this: When do these come out again, and is the price cheaper fornthe toynami version? Coz I like beagles head better, but not $80 better if u know what I mean.
AcroRay Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 I can't believe the continual crappy Alpha QC by Crapnami .... Can you say that three times fast?
Vermillion One Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 I used to be on the fence about getting the new alpha, but now I dont see any point in adding it to my collectioin. $80 is too much to pay for the possibility of getting any one of those QC flaws, much less all of them.
Lonely Soldier Boy Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 The Alpha keeps getting worse with every release. The Shadow Chronicles one has even worse QC than the Aoshimas. I was hoping for a cheaper all plastic mass produced Toynami Alpha, but now I'm not sure. It seems like Toynami just can't handle it. As it is, I'm glad I picked the original four MPC Alphas. I was lucky with those, specially with the Shadow, it seems the sturdier of them all.
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 The Alpha keeps getting worse with every release. The Shadow Chronicles one has even worse QC than the Aoshimas. I was hoping for a cheaper all plastic mass produced Toynami Alpha, but now I'm not sure. It seems like Toynami just can't handle it. They should switch to a newer factory and use no diecast in the forearms. The diecast in the legs is okay provided that the hip ratchets from the Aoshima are used. There is no point inf having diecast in the forearms as it only weighs the arm down. Also make the bicep joints out of hard plastic, and use swappable fixed pose hands instead of the crumbling movable hands that it came with. What I found disappointing about both the CMs Legioss and Aoshima Legioss that I have, is that they balance each other out. What is wrong on one, is not a problem on the other. What is problematic on one is a blessing on the other. I wasn't expecting this at all. I was expecting one to completely outdo the other. I prefer the Aoshima's proportions in armo soldier mode, it is big, bulky, and powerful in appearance. Yet I prefer the CMs in armor fighter mode, sleek, reminds me of a mechanized airplane derived from the A-4, MIG-29, and F/A-18, all three of which I like. Durability is definitely better on the CMs yet pieces such as the wings and arms are secured much better in fighter mode on the Aoshima. The most disappointing thing about the CMs Legioss is that it simply does not lock together well in fighter mode, because there aren't pieces that lock the arms and wings to the main body at all! They remain in position solely by the friction of their connection joints, yet are extremely easy to knock out of position, if you are a guy like me that swooshes the fighter mode around. Hands on both have problems, the Aoshima hands look like they will fall apart eventually, and are rag dolls at the wrist. Mine cannot stay in position with the gun in hand. The CMs has much more durable hands but poor grip, that gunpod is not held securely at all on mine, in fact it reminds me of the old 1/100 HG Gundam kits that had no pegs to secure the weapons to the hands. Those hands did a terrible job. I have since given the gunpod to my CMs Tread, which does a much better job of holding the gunpod. However I hope this does not change, but worried that it may eventually. Have any of you found a way to keep the gunpod gripped well in the CMs Legioss' hands? If you have, I'd love to know. The mini-missle doors open much better on the CMs Legioss, it's like a hot knife through butter. I love how the missle tips are more pronounced rather than just the painted flat circles on the Aoshima. On the CMs the arms are much easier to extend when going to soldier mode, with no fear of breaking, and made of durable material. Not so on the Aoshima, I don't know why anyone thought it was a good idea to make the bicep joints out of soft plastic, as well as using diecast in the forearm, and making the arm to shoulder connection to tight, which could lead to the bicep joint snapping off when extending the arms for transformation. On the CMs, this process is very smooth. Articulation and range of motion is better on the CMs, except for the lack of a neck joint, which is annoying. The Aoshima can be put into some great poses, but not in more dynamic positions than the CMs. Range of motion on the elbows & knees for the CMs is better too. The CMs does not have a place to lock in the wings in soldier mode, the Aoshima does but the wings do not lock into the nose very well.
AcroRay Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 The Alpha keeps getting worse with every release. The Shadow Chronicles one has even worse QC than the Aoshimas. I was hoping for a cheaper all plastic mass produced Toynami Alpha, but now I'm not sure. It seems like Toynami just can't handle it. As it is, I'm glad I picked the original four MPC Alphas. I was lucky with those, specially with the Shadow, it seems the sturdier of them all. Why would replacing the diecast parts with plastic help? Or making a 'cheaper' version? You'd have to come up with a whole set of ABS injection tooling to replace the spin diecast tooling. The diecast parts seem to be the least problematic, so why replace them with a materials set that generally proves to be trickier? The Sterling Alpha is really the 'cheaper' version. Looking at the pictures of the Sterling Alpha, I'd say the problem is just a rush job - allowing little time for workers to trim & clean parts, for paint to properly cure, for workers to assemble the things properly or for the glue to even dry. The result is like you've rushed through a model kit just to get it done. That's the mark of "cheaper", really. The more time your product occupies in the factory's assembly line, the more it 'costs' the factory because its backing up the job after your's, and making less time for them to get more jobs in during the course of the year (or whatever). The client and the factory negotiate their price and costs based in part on that most valuable of resources: time. You say "I need this many, but I need it by a certain day." The Factory looks at your product and says "it'll take us this long to make it, and it'll cost you this much per unit at that speed." You say "Too long. Too much." If they don't say 'sorry, can't do it', then they'll figure out how to get it done for you cheaper & quicker, but that usually means fewer people on the line, working faster, taking less time per stage to do a good job. The result is the Sterling Alpha. Too bad. One of two things probably happened. Either their factory vendor totally rooked them, or Toynami's assessment of the product's potential was that demand would be low (the market is swamped with Alphas/Legiosses, perhaps?), and they decided the Sterling Alpha just didn't warrant the investments required to secure a quality production arrangement. If the latter is true, they sure as heck wouldn't invest in any extensive retooling, unfortunately.
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Why would replacing the diecast parts with plastic help? It would help with the forearms, everything else that is diecast can stay the same without affecting anything. The diecast forearm part on the right arm of my Aoshima flops around under it's own weight, when it is supposed to stay in the forearm. If made out of plastic it could hold up much better and also wouldn't weigh down the arms, wouldn't eventually wear down tension at the shoulders.
AcroRay Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 True, in the case of the drooping arms. But I meant overall it wouldn't help make it a cheaper, overall more effective product. It would probably make it a little more expensive (to make, if not to buy) and make another possible tricky spot, unfortunately.
Hiriyu Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 ... Transforms fine now that I have the hang of it, but I can't seem to get the arms to fully close, and the lower torso to fully collapse, so that the arms can be fully collapsed in fighter mode. ... The trick to getting the MPC's arms to fully collapse and close is this: Fold in the hands last. Collapse the forearm completely, so that the locating tabs at the top of the forearm engage into their corresponding slots in the shoulders. The forearms should then fit pretty tightly to the shoulder. Once the forearm is secured then (and only then) should you attempt to flip the hands into their storage bays. You have to get the fingers positioned just so, so that they will permit the arm covers to close fully. If you don't have the hands folded correctly, you won't be able to get the arm covers closed. All discussion of shoddy materials aside, I think that the leading precursor to broken hands on the MPCs is overstressing caused by the internals of the arms basically crunching the folded hands as in a vice when the arms are collapsed with the hands stored. Ray's advice up top on getting the legs and torso to extend and collapse fully is spot on. When compressing the legs for fighter mode, you'll know they are compressed enough when the locating tab on the bottom of the arm matches it's mating notch on the lower leg. It should be able to snap in without pulling the upper and lower arms apart. HTH.
RavenHawk Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 I got my Beta last week and I'm very happy with it but like many others, had a few minor issues. I've learned a little tweaking to items can improve how much I like them. For anyone having problems with the support bar that holds the Alpha being loose when you slide it into the Beta, I found out scotch tape can help. Here's what you do: Put the bar into the Beta and determine exactly where on the bar is covered by the hole entrance. Take a little scotch tape and wrap it 1 length around that part. It won't take much. Now you can put the the tape all the way on the end of the bar but it’s a tighter fit on the arm that's near the mouth of the hole. A little trial and error will get it perfect. Do this and slide the bar back into the Beta and you'll find it creates a tension that holds it in place and makes it nice and snug. I have not had any problems since. And because the arm itself is in the hole, its hidden and you can't see the scotch tape. The other thing I did (temporarily) was to wrap a little plastic around the head of the Beta cockpit for when I have the Alpha and Beta connected in fighter mode. I took a litte bit of the plastic from the bag that held the manual and wrapped it around the cockpit head. I cut it and made a sheath out of it so I can slide it on and off. This way, when I dock the Alpha in fighter mode to the Beta, it doesn't scratch the yellow on the cockpit. The plastic is hidden since the cockpit is folded down between the Alpha's legs. Now its my intention to find a more permanent solution for that and find a way to cover up the yellow for when the Beta is in battloid mode but for the time being, it will due. Thanks. I was actually planning on trying the exact same thing with the scotch tape, but you beat me to the punch. I'll give it a try.
RavenHawk Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 The trick to getting the MPC's arms to fully collapse and close is this: Fold in the hands last. Collapse the forearm completely, so that the locating tabs at the top of the forearm engage into their corresponding slots in the shoulders. The forearms should then fit pretty tightly to the shoulder. Once the forearm is secured then (and only then) should you attempt to flip the hands into their storage bays. You have to get the fingers positioned just so, so that they will permit the arm covers to close fully. If you don't have the hands folded correctly, you won't be able to get the arm covers closed. All discussion of shoddy materials aside, I think that the leading precursor to broken hands on the MPCs is overstressing caused by the internals of the arms basically crunching the folded hands as in a vice when the arms are collapsed with the hands stored. Ray's advice up top on getting the legs and torso to extend and collapse fully is spot on. When compressing the legs for fighter mode, you'll know they are compressed enough when the locating tab on the bottom of the arm matches it's mating notch on the lower leg. It should be able to snap in without pulling the upper and lower arms apart. HTH. I'll give it a shot tomorrow. Thanks.
Mog Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) Ahh, much better! My display is finally complete*. * I left myself some extra shelf space for that other blue Beta I'll eventually purchase. Edited January 3, 2009 by Mog
AcroRay Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) The trick to getting the MPC's arms to fully collapse and close is this: Fold in the hands last. That was good advice, and my Shadow's arms collapsed much more cleanly, and seated properly in the leg tab holes. I still had that banana-shape problem in fighter mode, though. It seems to come from the center torso segment not collapsing properly, or the cockpit area not extending outward enough to allow the side fin surfaces to rest down properly on the chest air intakes, which forces the nose upward. Edited January 3, 2009 by AcroRay
Totoro242 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 That was good advice, and my Shadow's arms collapsed much more cleanly, and seated properly in the leg tab holes. I still had that banana-shape problem in fighter mode, though. It seems to come from the center torso segment not collapsing properly, or the cockpit area not extending outward enough to allow the side fin surfaces to rest down properly on the chest air intakes, which forces the nose upward. This is arguably intentional due to their interpretation of the Legioss line art and how the under side of th nose cone slopes upwards in fighter mode.
Mog Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 This is arguably intentional due to their interpretation of the Legioss line art and how the under side of th nose cone slopes upwards in fighter mode. I don't really think it's intentional. Yes, there might be an optical illusion of a slight upward slope because of the paint scheme. But on some of the Alphas I own, the nose and dorsal parts of the fighter look straight. But with my Shadow Alpha, which sports a solid-colored nose? Its got that banana-back look. Something's probably not collapsing/connecting properly somewhere. As has been said before, the tolerances to get the Alpha into a tight/almost gap-less fighter mode are pretty small. It's a flaw in the design and/or how the factory assembled the Alphas.
AcroRay Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) Well, I looked up some pics of Toynami's convention & toy show displays at Flickr and other places, and the improperly collapsed forearms and banana-shaped fighter profile seems to be a common issue in even the company's own handling of the Alphas. So - intentional or not - it looks like an issue in the Toynami design that careful transformation simply won't solve. Short of someone opening the things up and finding out what parts to modify, I don't think there's an answer to the problem. Edited January 4, 2009 by AcroRay
ruskiiVFaussie Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 ROFLAO the Stick heads (Beagle and Toynami) are a bloody laugh. lol, i was leaning towards Beagle and then looked at it's impression and i'm like WTF indeed, Toynami wins... kinda..
RavenHawk Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 ROFLAO the Stick heads (Beagle and Toynami) are a bloody laugh. lol, i was leaning towards Beagle and then looked at it's impression and i'm like WTF indeed, Toynami wins... kinda.. Or does Tommy Yune win, because many of us will once again be spending money on one of his "interpretations" of Robotech?
ruskiiVFaussie Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 Ahh lucky i'll be getting neither, i was hoping to just staying with Beagle Houquet/Rook, i hope the faces are darn nice. Hope i don't have to think about getting both types of Houquet though! o_0
RavenHawk Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 I'm going to get the Toynami MOSPEADA, and hope someone is selling a ki or something with a Beagle head later. I've wanted this too long, despite the cost. Now, looking at just how many details there are in the CMs and Megahouse ones, it's clear to me that this more expensive design is the only one that I will be close to happy with. I hope...
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