Ride Armors, Legioss and Treads! Oh my!

[kaka1]

Well then, you're probably not going to like that I did this:

I was too hung over to do anything but take and edit pictures today....

Click here for my next post and let me know if there are problems with the write-up, I don't think I'm as coherent as I normally am when I write those things.

Excellent review

[Shun]

thanks for your reviews jenius!

one thing about the CM'S legioss in fighter mode, it is possible to align the arms so that there are no gaps between them. OR we can leave a gap, maybe add that extra missile pod in between them. I like the different options and i usually place the legioss fighter without the gap. IMO this is good design and engineering, we don't see this feature in any other legioss toy or model. I'm not sure if you mentioned this in your reviews or if anybody else find this feature worth mentioning, although i agree the CM'S legioss has other flaws such as the knee joints.

[nightmareB4macross]

Nice review Jenius.

Seeing the two side-by-side really sells me on the Toynami version.

[GobotFool]

Well then, you're probably not going to like that I did this:

I was too hung over to do anything but take and edit pictures today....

Click here for my next post and let me know if there are problems with the write-up, I don't think I'm as coherent as I normally am when I write those things.

I look at this picture and can't help but feel that if CM had only made the Tread a little bigger and improved the connection bar, or include two like toynami things would have turned out really great. Oh well.

[danth]

one thing about the CM'S legioss in fighter mode, it is possible to align the arms so that there are no gaps between them. OR we can leave a gap, maybe add that extra missile pod in between them. I like the different options and i usually place the legioss fighter without the gap. IMO this is good design and engineering, we don't see this feature in any other legioss toy or model. I'm not sure if you mentioned this in your reviews or if anybody else find this feature worth mentioning, although i agree the CM'S legioss has other flaws such as the knee joints.

I don't think of that as a selling point as much as a work-around made necessary by making the Tread so darn small. Or do the arms go together in the line art?

[magicsp00n]

I have to admit, I wasn't planning on getting the Toynami Beta, but after seeing the positive reviews I'm really re-thinking it. The only question is, which color to go with? (The answer for me is not "all of them!")

[VF5SS]

None of the artwork shows the Tread being that big.

[Kyp Durron]

Lmao, this pic says it all right here :

-Kyp

[jenius]

Just one word of warning, while the soldier mode shots are probably 100% perfect, there is some room for error on the side shots in fighter mode. I can't guarantee I had the camera in exactly the same position for both shots. I tried to make it perfect but it's possible some shots will make a toy appear a tiny bit bigger or smaller in comparison to the other. The difference should be pretty minimal though. It looks like I forgot to pull down the "prong" on the Toynami Beta's center booster, whoops.

Shun - While I think the completely pressed together look is good for the CMs, I can't really consider it a plus since it's not an attribute the Alpha/Legioss was ever shown to have. I don't consider it a negative by any means either, just something interesting.

Edit - color recommendation - GREEN! That's the one I'm looking forward to and coincidentally I've had the best luck with my Lancer MPCs.

Edited December 22, 2008 by jenius

[Phyrox]

None of the artwork shows the Tread being that big.

I wouldn't say "none" of it.

There's this one:

And although most of the battloid lineart might show the beta as slightly smaller, in order for the proportions of the alpha/beta combo to look line-art accurate the beta has to be bigger than it appears in battloid. Just more anime magic that had to be accounted for.

[EXO]

The Toynami looks a lot better. That CMs is just a mangled mess. It's too bad the fit and quality is reversed.

[DarrinG]

I posted these comments on your great review page Jenius but thought I would throw them in here too.

Got my Beta today, my first reactions -

Good:

1. HUGE - how can you not smile when you handing this massive box. Out of the box it is simply the perfect size mech. The book-style packing still oozes extreme high-quality.

2. Felt solid, colors are great and looks awesome in all modes - especially bomber.

3. Toynami actually covered the hands in bomber mode, which is something even better than the line art - kudos.

4. The way the cockpit extends down when opened as in the anime is very cool.

5. Locks together solid in bomber and all the thrusters extend - fantastic.

6. The gap between the legs and yellow top missiles is not a negative. I thought it would be from pics I saw - not even noticeable.

7. The two chest cylinders extend to lock the front missile bays in shut.

Bad:

1. Would have liked the cockpit to lock in place in bomber mode, I kept bumping it out of position when I did anything.

2. The hip joints - too lose even though good poses in battloid are not effected, just feels wrong.

3. The connector mechanism - should have gone into the bomber like a collapsible antenna. That way the front landing gear is closer to the beta, not sure what the line-art says here.

4. The stand - you mean I can’t attach it to the beta without the connector?

The Ugly:

1. Of course the cockpit in battloid mode. Wish it did not bug me so much. Why can’t they include a cover for it like the connector cover? Someone please make these and sell them to all of us.

2. They HAD to include the top missile bays and didn’t! Those would be so cool in all modes. I can’t figure out why they skipped this ???

Bottom Line:

I will weigh in with my take among the many thousand differing ones on Toynami vs. CMs. I don’t have the CMs set so I may wrong here but just look at the comparison photo side view of the two linked up and tell me how you could choose CMs. The CMs Alpha/Beta linkup looks like it was stepped on by a shock trooper. That and the CMs colors are too cheap and cartoony.

The CMs beta legs are shaped better, cockpit is covered in battloid and they included the top missile bays. Other than that Toynami wins.

[jenius]

I'm pretty sure they avoided doing a collapsible connector because of the weight of the Toynami Alpha... it wouldn't have been as strong as the reinforced piece of plastic and might have sagged under the weight. I agree about the stand... still it's much better than the CMs. As with most toys that come with stands, if you can find an after market stand you'll be much better served.

Thanks for posting the comment! I love getting feedback on the site and having more there for others to read.

Edited December 22, 2008 by jenius

[Vostok 7]

I found this on my FTP the other day. Made it when the first prototypes of the Alpha "super"posables were being shown:

Vostok 7

[promethuem5]

Wow, the Toynami Beta looks scarily good... the chest-cockpit doesn't bother me (I actually prefer it) and I think I will pick up the red one when it comes out...I got my red Alpha out of storage and started making some tweaks to it... I tightened up a bunch of joints with superglue, and panel lining it, and will add the stickers and some light weathering... still need new hands for it tho... did anyone ever recast the Superposable hands?

[Mog]

The pic in Kyp's post was exactly the picture I was talking about earlier. It shows the three main beefs I have with CM's fighter combo.

[RavenHawk]

Still looking for a blue Toynami Alpha/Legioss. Let me know if anyone comes across one for a not-too-insane price.

Don't care if it's new or used, just want it to be complete.

[kanedaestes]

So i have a blue Toynami Alpha, but I want to know if the other later releases were just as bad? If not then i will get the green one. Besides for some reason for the Alphas I have always felt the green color looked better, more military if you will.

[AcroRay]

The latter releases seemed to have more of the bugs worked out. I've got the Shadow and Rook, and they're pretty good overall. Couple of little flaws, but I'm very pleased with 'em.

[jenius]

I think I've owned 13 Alphas and the latter releases didn't seem any better to me than the early ones. I think it's really just luck of the draw. That said, I only ever bought two Lancers, by then I knew to be afraid of the hands, and both were the best Alphas I owned... but again, I think it's just coincidental and lucky.

[promethuem5]

My Red is good enough... nothing is particularly floppy, but the hands are busted... I just finished finally panel lining and stickering and joint-tightening it, and I've gotta admit, for all its flaws I still mostly like it... I just really need some hands for it.

[will74]

Lmao, this pic says it all right here :

-Kyp

the pic does not say it all because if you connect them correctly the cm do not have that huge gap you see here. Yes toynami did a good job with connection but the cm does look just as good when connected correctly.

[RD Blade]

Man...reading about all the Alpha's flaws and breakage-prone parts really makes me fearful to handle mine. I used to transform it regularly, but ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

[jenius]

I couldn't connect the CMs "correctly" because the part that gets pushed up on the swing bar can't support the weight of the Legioss. Is there something else I'm missing?

Actually, I just fought it some more and I don't think it has to do with the mechanism holding the weight of the Legioss. How do you make it look less gappy? I need a pic.

Pic from my first review looks very similar:

Edited December 23, 2008 by jenius

[Graham]

The Toynami Tread looks surprisingly good, despite the minimal panel lines. I'm betting they used CAD for the design.

Now they just need to go back and do an Alpha ver.2 with CAD design and better materials.

Graham

[007-vf1]

CMs is smaller but how small is it? can anyone measure it and give me the numbers?

Specially how tall is it in Soldier/Battroid mode?

By the way; thanks for the review Jenius ...top notch

[jenius]

The Toynami Tread looks surprisingly good, despite the minimal panel lines. I'm betting they used CAD for the design.

Now they just need to go back and do an Alpha ver.2 with CAD design and better materials.

Graham

Over at Rt.com someone pointed out that Aoshima is credited with the engineering of the toy somewhere in the packaging. I haven't looked but that sounds believable considering what an improvement it was.

[Hiriyu]

I just got home, and my Toynami Beta was waiting for me.

Pulling it out of the box, a big grin started to spread across my face. I haven't grinned like this while opening a new toy purchase since... SOC Gunbuster? This thing is huge. And chunky. And heavy. And what's more, the weight is in all the right places. I start to move some of the limbs. What's this? Ratcheting clicks, Taka-Bandai-style. This is a Toynami?

I check the box again. Yep, it's Toynami. #00457. Shock.

I play with it a little more. Everything is solid. All of the movable joints actually operate as they should. The extending portions of the legs extend and retract with a perceptible "thunk". The arm joints are nice and tight. The hands are made of real plastic, have articulation, and don't appear or feel as if they will spontaneously crumble into dust. The head rotates. The missile booms extend, open, close, and rotate smoothly. The articulation in the front "toe" is smooth in operation and has a good range of movement. I set the thing on my desk, and put it in a menacing pose. It actually holds the pose without a wimper. This thing is a bruiser.

I've popped the accessories (landing gear, stand, connecting booms, cover piece, and pilot) out of the vacuformed tray, and set about putting the pilot in his seat. Tight fit. The cockpit feature is cool though, and it's neat how the the pilot's seat pivots independently of the pivoting clamshell of the upper and lower fuselage pieces. Still can't get the pilot to seat quite right... Seems his "butt plug" doesn't want to engage the locating hole in the seat. No biggy - a pair of nail clippers removes the plug, and "Rand" slinks into submission in his pilot's chair.

I have yet to transform it into Diver mode, try out the landing gear, connecting booms, and display stand. My Blue MPC awaits in the other room.

I'll be back. With pictures.

[will74]

I couldn't connect the CMs "correctly" because the part that gets pushed up on the swing bar can't support the weight of the Legioss. Is there something else I'm missing?

Actually, I just fought it some more and I don't think it has to do with the mechanism holding the weight of the Legioss. How do you make it look less gappy? I need a pic.

Pic from my first review looks very similar:

No in this pic the gap is less and looks different I think the arms in fighter are higher up that helps lessen the gap. Also the nose of the cm is straight while the toynami alpha seems to point up a little.

Edited December 23, 2008 by will74

[jenius]

Yes, I suppose angling the arms upward helps reduce the gap by a tiny margin but it's still a huge gap in comparison. The gun handle in the second pic also helps make the gap look less extreme. In all honesty, not many people display their toys as direct profiles which is where the CMs looks the worst.

I'm not sure why there's a slight elevating angle to the Toynami but I assume it was so that when people opt not to use the display stand the boom is less likely to slide out.

[chowyunskinny]

Over at Rt.com someone pointed out that Aoshima is credited with the engineering of the toy somewhere in the packaging. I haven't looked but that sounds believable considering what an improvement it was.

Interesting. Whenever you get a chance Jenius to confirm or debunk that, it would be appreciated

thanks in advance.

[dominion]

Interesting. Whenever you get a chance Jenius to confirm or debunk that, it would be appreciated

thanks in advance.

Actually, I know that CAD was used to make the VF Masterpieces. Thus I would be really surprised if Toynami didn't use CAD to make the Alphas.

By the way, I just got my Beta last Saturday...really impressed. I actually thought it looked meh from the pictures on this forum, but in hand it looks great. I posed it around a bit, but quickly put it in the fighter mode with the blue alpha. The alpha / beta combo looks so good in that mode that even my wife thought it looked cool (and she is generally unimpressed with my toys).

I must be the only one, but I love the Toynami alphas. I really love how it looks in all three modes. I agree that it definitely needs ratcheting joints and could be less fragile, but they hold up very well as display pieces. Yeah, you can't play with it, but I haven't really played with any toys in 20 years so I'm not complaining.

People on this forum are such Nazis about line art, but the same people are lining up behind CMs alpha / beta which looks just horrible and cheap. And as much as my Megahouse Ride Armors frustrate me by spontaneously disassemblying, they look 100x better than the CMs.

I just don't get it. I guess people just want to hate anything associated with Toynami.

[AcroRay]

Over at Rt.com someone pointed out that Aoshima is credited with the engineering of the toy somewhere in the packaging. I haven't looked but that sounds believable considering what an improvement it was.

Good to hear, if true. Not only for an improvement of product, but the partnership indicates really good things for the future, I think.

[AcroRay]

I must be the only one, but I love the Toynami alphas. I really love how it looks in all three modes. I agree that it definitely needs ratcheting joints and could be less fragile, but they hold up very well as display pieces. Yeah, you can't play with it, but I haven't really played with any toys in 20 years so I'm not complaining.

You're not the only one. I feel absolutely the same way on all those points.

It took me some wheeling and dealing/trading to get the two Alphas I've got, and I'm pleased to no end that I've got them, and wouldn't mind having a couple more as well as a Beta. (Just one Beta. I don't have room for more!)

Out of the legions of mecha toys I've got from the 70s to current, they're among the dozen or so pieces permanently on display in our living room, and regularly taken down & 'toyed' with, if not actually played with.

[jenius]

Three notes:

1) The back of the MPC Certificate of Authenticity (that gold certificate within the book flap) does list the people involved in the MPC's production including "ENGINEERING - AOSHIMA"

2) I just rewatched the last 5 minutes of Robotech's TNG to try and remember what note Scott leaves on, turns out Sera (Sorji) has her own ride armor paint scheme variant. My hope is piqued for a future limited edition (it look's like it's the same model as Rand's).

3) I just reviewed some new pics of the Maia MPC. All Toynami did was repaint Rook's MPC. This isn't at all accurate as it has the round intakes instead of the Shadow Intakes and it has the VTOL that isn't present on Shadow Fighters. Since it's quite clearly just a repaint and obviously not very line art accurate I've got almost no inspiration to purchase it and it definitely won't be on my site any time soon.

EDIT - AcroRay, I don't think this is an indicator of things to come but rather an indicator of things that were. Toynami and Aoshima annouced the intention to make the Beta/Tread before the release of the Aoshima Legioss. After the Legioss turned out so poorly it appears Aoshima walked away from Toynami, probably after the engineering work had been done for the Beta. If we do see Aoshima repaints we'll know the hatchet was buried but from everything I've heard those two companies are done working together.

Edited December 23, 2008 by jenius