Ride Armors, Legioss and Treads! Oh my!

[Vostok 7]

I just remembered I've got a MPC Blue Alpha in it's box somewhere around here. Don't care much for it. I might be convinced to sell it. There MIGHT be pieces missing, I don't remember (I can check) but I don't believe any pieces were missing or broken. I just wasn't impressed as it's the crappy first Alpha complete with potato-chip shape in fighter mode and droopy landing gear.

Vostok 7

[Ginrai]

Sooo can the Beta and Alpha MPC both be in robot mode when connected?

[protostar8]

So if I am interpreting all of the hub bub correctly the Toynami Beta is getting good reviews so the Toynami Alpha is now “cool” again?

Out of all (what is it 2? Toynami, CM, ???) Alpha/Beta combos out there what is the consensus on which pair are the best?

thanks

From what I gather, it's really about style. If you like one's style over the other, then that's the one to get. Toynami's Alpha has QC issues out the butt, while the Beta's initial reviews say it's pretty sturdy. CM's is supposedly a nice pair, but their are a few issues like the connection and lack of detail. However, I have seen a few people say that the Toynami Beta is better...

[Mog]

^^Also, some folks despise the design asthetics that went into the CM Legioss, such as the sprawled out knees in fighter mode, the elongated nose, the lack of a moveable neck, and the tailfins that don't collapse when in the fighter combo mode.

But ultimately, as protostar8 pointed out, most folks' decision will come down to style preferences and which modes and combinations they give highest priority to.

[sqidd]

From what I gather, it's really about style. If you like one's style over the other, then that's the one to get. Toynami's Alpha has QC issues out the butt, while the Beta's initial reviews say it's pretty sturdy. CM's is supposedly a nice pair, but their are a few issues like the connection and lack of detail. However, I have seen a few people say that the Toynami Beta is better...

Man, talk about 6 in one hand, half dozen in the other

Am I crazy or was Aoshima going to make some too? Or is this it? If I want a Alpha/Beta these are my choices?

thanks

[sqidd]

But ultimately, as protostar8 pointed out, most folks' decision will come down to style preferences and which modes and combinations they give highest priority to.

For me it would come down to which looks best in fighter mode (linked up) because that is how I would display them. Anyone by any chance have some pics of that? (pipe dream right?)

thanks

[protostar8]

Man, talk about 6 in one hand, half dozen in the other

Am I crazy or was Aoshima going to make some too? Or is this it? If I want a Alpha/Beta these are my choices?

thanks

They might have been planning on it, then Toynami and them had a fight and ended that. But Aoshima was just making copies of Toynami's stuff (more or less) anyway. So your only two choices are really Toynami's or CM's combo. Both are overpriced.

[Mog]

For me it would come down to which looks best in fighter mode (linked up) because that is how I would display them. Anyone by any chance have some pics of that? (pipe dream right?)

thanks

I've only got links of early prototype pics for both fighter combos:

CM's.

Toynami's. (Note the original release date ).

My personal preference goes with Toynami's design. Never was a fan of CM's split-level look.

[AcroRay]

But ultimately, as protostar8 pointed out, most folks' decision will come down to style preferences and which modes and combinations they give highest priority to.

Too true. I like the anime look of the CMs renditions, but I have a preference for the more 'Real Type' look of the Toynami editions. They work nicely with my Takatoku Orguss & Dorvack toys, which are really my favorite 80s lines (apart from Macross, of course).

[RavenHawk]

I just remembered I've got a MPC Blue Alpha in it's box somewhere around here. Don't care much for it. I might be convinced to sell it. There MIGHT be pieces missing, I don't remember (I can check) but I don't believe any pieces were missing or broken. I just wasn't impressed as it's the crappy first Alpha complete with potato-chip shape in fighter mode and droopy landing gear.

Vostok 7

If you could check and let me know, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!

[sqidd]

They might have been planning on it, then Toynami and them had a fight and ended that. But Aoshima was just making copies of Toynami's stuff (more or less) anyway. So your only two choices are really Toynami's or CM's combo. Both are overpriced.

I'm glad you know what the story is. I didn't know any of this. Thanks.

Now for more stupid questions:

Ok, so let me see if I have this all sorted out. I just got on feeBay too see the lay of the land.

It looks like the CM EX01 Mospeada Legioss & Tread in blue (which I am guessing is Scott’s Alpha for us with a RT childhood) is the HOT ticket. Looks like they are going for $380+.

Then there is the Aoshima Legosis in blue AFC-01H which looks like it can be had in Blue for about $70. I’m guessing this is not the “Scott” version. If so what is the difference? If Aoshima was ripping of Toynami does this mean they are interchangeable? Will these link up with the Toynami Beta? (I doubt it, just had to ask)

I don’t see any “Scott” Toynami Alpha’s on feeBay at all. Am I correct that there are as scarce as hens teeth? And if I were to find one it would be $$$$$$!?

Am I correct in assuming that if I were to get a Toynami Beta in blue (“Scott”) I would have nothing to hook it to, and therefore display unless I found a Toynami MPC Alpha in blue?

Thanks for all of my nOOb questions

[sqidd]

I've only got links of early prototype pics for both fighter combos:

CM's.

Toynami's. (Note the original release date ).

My personal preference goes with Toynami's design. Never was a fan of CM's split-level look.

Thanks for the pics. The release date is great!

I just did a google search for pics of the CM and out of a billion picks not one good ¾ shot from the side. Go figure.

At this point I am torn between the two. I think they both look cool. I’m not buying both though, LOL. I sure would rather have a blue one too (for the kid in me) but the red ones can be stolen for almost no money at all. Too bad the red one has the red canopy. It just looks crappy to me, drives me nuts. I don’t care if it’s anime accurate or not, red “windscreens” remind me of sportbikes with colored screens which I think is the cheezest thing you can ever do to one (I race them, I have nit picky issues).

[RavenHawk]

Thanks for the pics. The release date is great!

I just did a google search for pics of the CM and out of a billion picks not one good ¾ shot from the side. Go figure.

At this point I am torn between the two. I think they both look cool. I’m not buying both though, LOL. I sure would rather have a blue one too (for the kid in me) but the red ones can be stolen for almost no money at all. Too bad the red one has the red canopy. It just looks crappy to me, drives me nuts. I don’t care if it’s anime accurate or not, red “windscreens” remind me of sportbikes with colored screens which I think is the cheezest thing you can ever do to one (I race them, I have nit picky issues).

Though generally I'd agree with you, I personally like the look of the dark smoke windscreen on my Raven R1.

[Roger]

Sooo can the Beta and Alpha MPC both be in robot mode when connected?

Sicko.

Am I correct in assuming that if I were to get a Toynami Beta in blue (“Scott”) I would have nothing to hook it to, and therefore display unless I found a Toynami MPC Alpha in blue?

You don't have to match the colors of the Alpha and Beta, theoretically any of them will fit together. Personally I think the two-tone combos look pretty cool.

[Mog]

Now for more stupid questions:

........................

Then there is the Aoshima Legosis in blue AFC-01H which looks like it can be had in Blue for about $70. I’m guessing this is not the “Scott” version. If so what is the difference? If Aoshima was ripping of Toynami does this mean they are interchangeable? Will these link up with the Toynami Beta? (I doubt it, just had to ask)

Thanks for all of my nOOb questions

Jenius can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the blue on the Aoshima is a hell of a lot brighter hue than the one on the original Toynami Alpha. You might want to check Jenius' website for some good comparison pics.

As for linking up, I don't see why the Aoshima's wouldn't hook up with this Beta. They probably just won't color-match exactly. I'd be curious too to see if the original Legioss models (forgot who made 'em) that the Alphas are based on can link up with the Beta too.

[sqidd]

Though generally I'd agree with you, I personally like the look of the dark smoke windscreen on my Raven R1.

I should have clarified. The dark smoke screens look great on black bikes. I had a FZR400, FZR600, two FZR1000’s and a 98’ R1 custom painted back in the day all black with smoke shields. Loved em’ Yours looks great too.

But a red bike with a red screen……I think I just threw up a bit.

[RavenHawk]

I should have clarified. The dark smoke screens look great on black bikes. I had a FZR400, FZR600, two FZR1000’s and a 98’ R1 custom painted back in the day all black with smoke shields. Loved em’ Yours looks great too.

But a red bike with a red screen……I think I just threw up a bit.

Ok, I'll definitely agree with you on that. Red bikes with red screens... blue bikes with blue screens... green bikes with green screens... might as well buy a half plastic Buell.

FZR400, FZR600, FZR1000, and an R1? Wow, you've got great taste. I'm a Yamaha junkie.

[vermillion01]

Sqidd is a biker of exemplary skill and taste

[will74]

It is a great time to be a mospeada fan I was lucky enough to buy the blue cm's when they where 220 and again I feel kind of lucky to have gotten the toynami beta for 110 and the blue alpha for 80 (when they first came out what two three years ago). So, if you really think about the Beta and alpha which are sold separately, can cost you 230 which is just about the cost of the cm minus the shipping when they first came out. My blue alpha does have some QC issue mostly with paint and parts not lining up correctly and my beta so far seems to be QC free and when you put them together they do look great and connect very well. The CM on the other hand has zero QC issue but the link up is not that great but with some patience you can get them to connect very nicely and in my opinion looks a little better the alpha and beta but that's just me. To be honest I like them both with a slight edge to the cm's legioss and tread.

[Phyrox]

Then there is the Aoshima Legosis in blue AFC-01H which looks like it can be had in Blue for about $70. I’m guessing this is not the “Scott” version. If so what is the difference? If Aoshima was ripping of Toynami does this mean they are interchangeable? Will these link up with the Toynami Beta? (I doubt it, just had to ask)

Am I correct in assuming that if I were to get a Toynami Beta in blue (“Scott”) I would have nothing to hook it to, and therefore display unless I found a Toynami MPC Alpha in blue?

- The Aoshima is just a slightly brighter colored and very slightly modified Toynami (new hip ratchets, or something small like that). The Blue Aoshima Alpha might not match the color of your Beta exactly, but it will be a fine replacement for the Toynami in every other way (QC was reportedly worse however). It should connect to the Toynami Beta just as well as the Toynami it was cloned from. Aoshima wasn't a rip-off, it was a licensed version for the Japanese market.

- You could connect any of the other Toynami/Aoshima Alphas to your Beta if you wanted. The color wouldn't match, but that would be the only trouble.

[jenius]

Sqidd, lemme make this easy for ya

Pics primarily of the CMs Legioss here

Pics of the CMs Dark Legioss here

Pics primarily of the CMs Tread here

Pics of the CMs Legioss and Tread in various colors here

Pics of the Aoshima including comparison to the MPCs here

I'm a little let down your search didn't just start with my site

[AcroRay]

Then there is the Aoshima Legosis in blue AFC-01H which looks like it can be had in Blue for about $70. I’m guessing this is not the “Scott” version. If so what is the difference? If Aoshima was ripping of Toynami does this mean they are interchangeable? Will these link up with the Toynami Beta? (I doubt it, just had to ask)

Aoshima licensed (rented) Toynami's Legioss tooling from Toynami to make their own Mospeada versions, with brighter anime-style colors, a couple of small mechanical improvements, and a couple of new accessories: little missile racks you can clip under the mechs' chests, and a shoulder-mounted missile box. But they're essentially exactly the same toys.

As I recall from an interview with Tommy Yune, Aoshima rushed the initial production of their Toynami Legiosses (Legossi?) and QC suffered horribly with at least the first batch of them. So they have a bad reputation, and Aoshima pretty much shot themselves in the foot on Mospeada products. "Fast. Cheap. Good. Pick any two."

The tooling - with Aoshima's tweaks - was returned to Toynami a bit late, resulting in a delay on the Shadow Chronicles editions.

So if you really want a blue "Scott" one and can pick up an Aoshima edition cheap, it might be worth your while. You might also find an arm broken off in the packaging. But Toynami's run of the "Scott" had a lot of bugs, too. (Many of which were fixed in later character editions, IMO.)

Speaking of Shadow Chronicles: I stopped by my local BIG LOTS to check their video section for the latest shipment of cheap anime, and found about 4 copies of the special 2-disk Shadow Chronicles DVD set for $3 a copy. I bought one for my daughter, who inherited my Robotech DVDs and VHS.

Edited December 19, 2008 by AcroRay

[protostar8]

Does anyone have a link to prove that Toynami was forcing companies to sell the Beta for around $150? I remember reading something like that and I'm looking for the source of the memory.

[Tober]

Does anyone have a link to prove that Toynami was forcing companies to sell the Beta for around $150? I remember reading something like that and I'm looking for the source of the memory.

This is the email that was sent out informing purchasers of the Beta of the price change:

Robotech Masterpiece Beta #1 - Price Change

Hi - We have just recently been informed by the president of Toynami that the MSRP of the New Generation Beta Fighters will be somewhere between $149.99 and $199.99. Our original price of $79.99 was incorrect. The confusion on this item was caused by some unclear information on their price sheet. The sheet said the price was 'to be disclosed' at a later date, but there was an asterisk '*' by the item number, and a asterisk '*' note on the bottom of the page stating that all Masterpiece items with the asterisk were to be priced at a $79.99 minimum price. I apologize for this error, it was an honest mistake on my part due to the MSRP they inferred on the price sheet. If you need to cancel or reduce your preorder - that is no problem at all, simply login to your account and update the quantity on order to zero to remove the preorder. When Toynami does officially announce the MSRP, we will sell them at the lowest possible price that they allow - which most likely will be $149.99, but they are still working with factories to nail down the final price. (They do enforce minimum pricing with retailers on this, so the lowest price they allow is the best we can do for you on this item) I again apologize for the error, but on the bright side, with a MSRP, the figure should be that much more amazing.

Thanks!

Joel

www.bigbadtoystore.com

[sqidd]

Sqidd is a biker of exemplary skill and taste

Thanks! Saves me the trouble of showing off

I still need to get over there to do the IOM. A friend of mine and I are planing on doing it in the next three years. I can't wait!

[sqidd]

I'm a little let down your search didn't just start with my site

I jumped over there (love that place) but there was so much information it was a bit overwhelming for me because I knew absolutely zero, lol. I sped a LOT of time on your site. You have influeced a ton of my purchases. In addition to that the current pricing is a big factor for me so the feBay angle was good because I could "sort" by price.

Color match is a big deal for me. Even two different shades of blue would bother me (I'm goofy like that). Looks like the CM setup is the way to go when you factor in price. My first choice is blue (of couse) and it seems it would be easier to get a Legioss and Tread setup if I were to go with the CM. Getting hold of a MPC Alpha in blue and then the new beta would be a lot of work and could get $$$. As far as sculpt goes I am 50/50 in which I like better so that doesn't matter much. Now I need to find out if the blue one is worth the extra $$$ for me.

thanks to everyone for your help!

[sqidd]

I'm a little let down your search didn't just start with my site

This is from your CM review. "If you’re just a moderate transformable plane collector look for something else, there are much better toys out there".

I would be buying one to display in fighter mode. I may not even transform it. It sounds to me like you are saying that I should be looking at a different setup. Is this the case?

thanks!

[Shun]

From what I gather, it's really about style. If you like one's style over the other, then that's the one to get. Toynami's Alpha has QC issues out the butt, while the Beta's initial reviews say it's pretty sturdy. CM's is supposedly a nice pair, but their are a few issues like the connection and lack of detail. However, I have seen a few people say that the Toynami Beta is better...

Regarding lack of detail for CM'S Legioss and Tread, its not true. People who own one or seen one up close will notice a lot of details on the CM'S.

[Shaggydog]

IMO, the appearance of the CM's legioss is inferior to the appearance of the Toynami. I wouldn't say the problem is lack of detail - the details seem fine. I just don't like the weird nipples and the tiny heads on the CM's. Also, the CM's legioss is really lightweight, and the transformation is sort of unsatisfying - doesn't really 'lock into place' in fighter mode, if you know what I mean. The Toynami alpha has many problems also, which I've described in other posts. Overall I'd give the slight edge to the Toynami, but you could make an argument either way.

As for the tread, I haven't handled the Toynami yet, but from pictures, I prefer the appearance of the CM's. The CM's tread is wonderful to play with - very solid and satisfying. But, I'll still be grabbing a Toynami beta in addition to the CM's, because the Toynami beta looks pretty cool, and it's huge and has a lot of metal, both of which count for a lot in my book. Based on reports so far, it sounds like the Toynami beta avoided most of the flaws of their alpha. Also, it sounds like the legioss-tread hookup on the Toynami set is better than on the CM's set - it almost has to be, given that the CM's linkup was really weak.

It really seems to me that neither set blows the other one out of the water. Both have strong and weak points. In such a situation, I recommend just staring at pictures and deciding which one appeals more to your tastes. Good luck.

[do not disturb]

Yes Roger, because materials are the only cost of a toy, you're smart and stuff.

I'm with DND, world's simplest toy currently selling for $150. Roger, wanna make a bet that I'll be able to buy it for $80 some day?

if toynamis past says anything, i bet my leftest of testicles on it!

its only a matter of time before all the QC issues arise and the complaints start pouring in.

right now everyone is suffering from i've-waited-too-long-this-thing-shut-up-its-awesome syndrome.

keep in mind that for the average fan or toy collector, this thing is beyond hideous...it just not a good looking toy.

it also doesn't help that its difficult finding an alpha at a reasonable price and if you don't have the alpha, this toy is pointless to own. all this leads to 1 conclusion....sale rack baby!

[kaka1]

I have both sets and i have to say toynamy is far way better than CM , i already transformed mine at least 30 times and no problems what so ever , the CM is also a good toy to have but the light way and the kind of plastic they use to me it makes it look cheap so in other words it comes to this

TOYNAMI :

diecast

plastic

12 " high

perfect conection link with the alpha

CM

plastic

10 " high

conection link to the alpha (actually there is none )

[jenius]

I'm definitely not a fan of the CMs Legioss' design. At the very least the head had to be able to twist left and right in soldier mode and it feels sloppy in fighter mode and looks poorly thought out from any angle where the bottom half of the plane is visible. The details are nice though and from above the fighter mode looks very aggressive (and usually that's the angle most people would be looking at it). The connection of the CMs Legioss to the Tread is bad, plain and simple. The tread toy itself, especially in soldier mode, is a lot of fun.

[protostar8]

This is the email that was sent out informing purchasers of the Beta of the price change:

Okay. Thanks. I don't know where I saw that message about Toynami enforcing the $150 price tag then.

[Phyrox]

keep in mind that for the average fan or toy collector, this thing is beyond hideous...it just not a good looking toy.

I am the average fan/collector, and I have to disagree.

If you think it is beyond hideous, that's fine, but don't pretend it's some generally accepted truism.

Looks pretty good actually. But then, I only ever try to speak for myself.

[sil80jdm]

Anybody have thoughts on the new Toynami masterpiece maia alpha from shadow chronicles? Im crazy enough to like the paint scheme and wondering if this is a good piece unlike the other alphas.. Please share your thoughts.. im hoping to get some 411 before i fork over the money to find out its junk =(