Graham Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 So the thing to keep in mind here is : 1st testshot Exactly, it is a test shot. And when you are at the test shot stage, that is already 98% representative of your final product. Test shots are just for the factory to refine the fit and finishing, tighten or loosen tollerences where necessary to ensure good parts fitting, minimise gaps, tighten up joints etc. Once you are at the test shot stage, it's unusual for any major design changes to be implemented, unless a serious problem is encountered, requiring redesign and retooling of a part or parts (expensive). As I said before, once you see a test shot, it is usually a case of 'what you see is what you get', although the final product will always fit together better, have fewer gaps and a better finish than a test shot. Graham
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Exactly, it is a test shot. Yes but just the first one, the translation vifam gave us indicates that there are still changes to be made.
Sumdumgai Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 (edited) This VF-25 keeps making me think of the 1/65 VF-17 and VF-19 toys. Yeah, Bandai has gotten better at making Macross toys since then, but they're 10 years behind Yamato, and that is sad. What's sadder is that it was a purposeful decision, as demonstrated by the model kit and what we've seen of the 1/100 VF-25. Fighter mode has large legs that aren't very well integrated with the body, and hang too low. Stumpy landing gear, but I can live with that, as long as the gunpod still stores with ZERO problems. It also looks like it has quite the gullet, more so than the Yamato YF-19 Gerwalk looks bad, but I'll palm that off on a number of factors including that it's the first test and probably doesn't fit together well. Battroid problems are plentiful. Hip/leg positioning is too high up still. The forearms seem a little bit too long. Torso seems a little bit too wide. Combination of neck too short and shoulders angled too high, makes it look hunched, as if it were trying to pull its head back into its body like a turtle. Legs seem overly long, especially if they were to correct the positioning of where the legs meet the crotch. Feet too large. Gunpod seems to thin. Interesting to note that it can store the gunpod while in gerwalk without it being attached to the arms. Hands aren't too small either. edit for clarification: I'm not expecting these things to be changed. I'm listing what I view as what's wrong with the VF-25 toy. Why things can't be changed that much at this point in the stage is kind of like why the YF-19 mold couldn't be tweaked into making a VF-19F/S/Kai/P, like David Hingtgen says in the next post. Edited September 23, 2008 by Sumdumgai
David Hingtgen Posted September 23, 2008 Author Posted September 23, 2008 I think people are expecting WAY too much from the "tweaking". It's a 3D transforming sculpture. Changing anything more than .5mm affects every other piece it touches. They can't change ANYTHING noticeably without changing EVERYTHING. And that's not going to happen. They can bring the shield 1mm in closer to the forearm, or give the hips 4 degrees more articulation. But they're not going to make the legs 20% thinner, or the torso 30% longer. The final version will be nigh-identical to what we've seen since the beginning.
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Heh, I don't want to say "I told you so" just yet, but thinking back to when it was first announced that Bandai had the toy licence and the Bandai fans were all like "Bandai's gonna kick Yamato's ass with their superior design. Bandai is so great....blah...SOC....blah....Gundam.......Blah........Blah...etc! The only reason that stuff was said was because every other member here tends to say the exact same thing about Yamato, despite the breakages, despite the irritating faults despite improved qc, et al. With that said there is no reason to believe that Kawamori wouldn't have treated Yamato the same as Bandai(requesting changes). I've heard people over and over again comparing the new VF-25 to the DX Macross 7 toys from 1994, and there simply is no comparison. The DX VF-25 does not look as inaccurate to its animation appearance as the DX VF-19's. Not even close. In fact, it looks closer to its animation counterpart than the 1/55 VF-1 and 1/72 HCM were to the VF-1 lineart. Sure there are already a good amount of members here that say the Yamato VF-25 would "show Bandai how its done". Not surprising considering the loyal dedication to that company, by many members here. Or should I say most. Given the recent toys that Yamato has brought out, we could very well be looking at a VF-25 with such improved shoulder articulation but broken arms that you must pay HLJ $15 for a replacement, if the arm breaks. At the end of the day I want a good, durable toy. I love the new 1/60 VF-1 by Yamato but damn, the steps I took to try to avoid breakage, should not be necessary. As I've pointed out before, Bandai makes durable toys for the most part, and the VF-25 is not as inaccurate as previous Bandai valkyries. I look at it the same way as CM's Legioss; a unique take on the design. Besides Kawamori might have requested the changes, and by that maybe Yamato's would have looked the exact same way. Bandai is a good company, its not like the quality on this toy will be like that of the Aoshima Legioss. I expect a unique take on the design, a durable toy, and while it may not be completely accurate, it should last for a long time. Despite the inaccuracies, I do like its more balanced, bulked up appearance. The VF-25 is a frail looking mecha.
eugimon Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 considering there haven't been any significant design changes since the very first resin mock ups, I think it's safe to abandon hope that Bandai is going make any real changes.
Graham Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 The final version will be nigh-identical to what we've seen since the beginning. Which is what I've been saying, but people are still expecting miracles. Graham
dizman Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Please.... please let there be a miracle! Ah well even looking like it does I'll still buy at least one.
Graham Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Yep so will I buy 1 of each, but with landing gear like that, it will be displayed wheels up in flight. I wonder if Bandai will include a display stand with the toys? If not, time to invest in some more flexi stands. Graham
1/1 LowViz Lurker Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 (edited) Well I want a perfect grade line of valks. Bandai has shown they can make great macross transforming models. The toys are for the collectors obsessed with tough materials. Models are for the displayer who wants accuracy. I guess that's why yamato is popular as they went somewhere in between. Something that tries to be accurate but being perfect transformable and able to be handled, make it feel moderately safe to touch as well. Yamato get a lot of sh!t mainly for the price of their toys though: these are expensive enough for us to be allowed to complain about the tiny flaws since at that price those criticisms are justified. What bandai can do is beat them in the long term durability and value for money areas. I think bandai should take a shot at doing the mospeda legioss and tread. Edited September 23, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker
regult Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 (edited) Years of diecast aircraft/bus/car collecting and friends in the industry taught me that when things come to "test shot", many things are defined, especially those which concern us: shape, sizes, proportions, materials...as Graham, David and some other guys here pointed out, none of those changes are expected to happen when Bandai tweaks the mold, a very expensive rig by the way. Miracles? I haven't got it yet, but the 1/72 plastic kit seems the best they could pull-off, so we should look that way for a better looking VF-25! Edited September 23, 2008 by regult
anime52k8 Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Well I want a perfect grade line of valks. Bandai has shown they can make great macross transforming models. The toys are for the collectors obsessed with tough materials. Models are for the displayer who wants accuracy. I guess that's why yamato is popular as they went somewhere in between. Something that tries to be accurate but being perfect transformable and able to be handled, make it feel moderately safe to touch. also, something that doesn't need to be F***king painted or decaled in order to not look like crap. honestly, the toy looks like crap, but so does the model if you don't have the time/skill in order to propery detail it. bandai needs to give us a PG kit that's 1/48 or 1/32 scale, and is prepainted/have pop in peices that are molded in the correct color. (tempo printing would be good too)
1/1 LowViz Lurker Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 (edited) but so does the model if you don't have the time/skill in order to propery detail it. Well if it's cheaper unpainted then I will be happy to just paint it myself. The savings in money from it being a kit can go towards just making everything more detailed and complex. As prices rise, I think I'm going to turn to good transforming kits a bit more now. Gundam has all the love. They should get their best people working on macross kits imo. I can see a lot of demand for transforming valk kits, especially given valks are by their very nature complex robots with moving pieces, unlike say the simpler zentradi robots like the Qrau and all that. Instead of making that 1/100 line of valks, bandai should just pour all their effort into making 1/72 transforming kits imo Then only the most popular valks in the 1/72 scale get the PG treatment if demand warrants it. If Bandai wants to beat yamato they can try to beat them in the detail by going to a larger size (1/48 PG?) and extra features. (perhaps something like having the intake covers that don't detach but transform like in the show, or side parts that are part of the valkyrie instead of seperate pieces?) Everyone is making fun of the 1/60, but if they had put all their focus and resource on one thing and concentrated all their effort into that one thing then they could catch up to yamato with ease. As much as I like the chunky monkey for its history as a sturdy toy, it's time for them to stop just re-releasing old vintage stuff and really strive to bring their toys/model to a new level. I mean doesn't it suck that yamato can't do a vf-11 C even though they are making vf-11 from macross plus? Bandai is just sitting on that. Re-releasing those old chunky munky macross 7 toys isn't my idea of progress. Vintage toy collectors wet their pants, but I'm the kind to only want to own the best version of something that is out on the market and sell off those that I don't need anymore. (that's why I have no problems with 'space') Edited September 23, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker
Graham Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 New pics from the November 2008 issues of Hobby Japan magazine and Dengeki Hobby magazine. New Super Pack Photo....Yay! Quite a nice detailed cockpit interior as well. Actually, it looks pretty good in some of these photos. However, given the long lead time in print publishing compared with online publishing, these photos are probably older than the ones that came out yesterday on the Tamashii Nations website (page 11 of this thread). Also, these magazine photos appear still to be the resin prototype, rather than the ABS and die-cast test shot. Anyway, enjoy (or not). Graham
anime52k8 Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 (edited) Well if it's cheaper unpainted then I will be happy to just paint it myself. The savings in money from it being a kit can go towards just making everything more detailed and complex. As prices rise, I think I'm going to turn to good transforming kits a bit more now. the thing is some of us don't have time/skill enought to do the painting. I don't have time to do the work myself and even if I did, it would look still look like poo, (I'm sure I'm not alone in this). Now I supose I could pay someone else to build it for me, but I doubt I could afford that and the money savings thing goes out the window there. Then only the most popular valks in the 1/72 scale get the PG treatment if demand warrants it. If Bandai wants to beat yamato they can try to beat them in the detail by going to a larger size (1/48 PG?) and extra features. (perhaps something like having the intake covers that don't detach but transform like in the show, or side parts that are part of the valkyrie instead of seperate pieces?) I'm telling you 1/32 is the way to go. absolutely massive so they could do all kinds of things. and on a PG kit they can get around needing to paint easily. heck I don't see anything that's stoping them from painting the parts for the valks on the sprues (if they can do it on a $20 Zoids kit, they can do it on a $200+ PG kit) also, I love the VF-25 enought to want an 18inch tall version of it. Edited September 23, 2008 by anime52k8
Graham Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Stay on topic please. This thread is for discusing the 1/60 DX toy, not 1/32 PG kits, which don't even exist. Graham
SuperHobo Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Why does bandai keep posing it with the shoulders so far stretched out? In one of those prototype pics it looks like the shoulders can recess a lot more inward giving it a less gorilla arm look. Nice to see the fast packs make it look more fat LOL.
David Hingtgen Posted September 23, 2008 Author Posted September 23, 2008 FAST packs are still missing the 'groin plating'.
UN Spacy Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Can anyone translate the text underneath the Super Pack image?
anime52k8 Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 New pics from the November 2008 issues of Hobby Japan magazine and Dengeki Hobby magazine. New Super Pack Photo....Yay! Quite a nice detailed cockpit interior as well. Actually, it looks pretty good in some of these photos. However, given the long lead time in print publishing compared with online publishing, these photos are probably older than the ones that came out yesterday on the Tamashii Nations website (page 11 of this thread). Also, these magazine photos appear still to be the resin prototype, rather than the ABS and die-cast test shot. Anyway, enjoy (or not). Graham how does that work, the resin prototype looks better than the Test shot. arn't these suposed to get BETTER when newer preproduction stuff comes out? also I got to say the fast packs look great.
brouken Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 You know, those Hobby Japan shots of the DX don't look half bad. I could only read a bit of the text under the super pack shot. It says something about the super pack being an essential part of a valkyrie during space combat, and that while it adds nicely to the volume of the valkryie, whether the toy will have the stability to stand on its own without support using the super pack is something that can only be found out once the toy and the super pack add on is released. The editor also adds that he wishes that the toy and the super pack be on sale soon. I'm sure the more Nihongo de jouzuu shitotachi can translate it better than I.
1/1 LowViz Lurker Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 I hope it can stand without support. Why must bandai scare us?
badboy00z Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 (edited) Those looks pretty decent. No where near the model but it's progress. I'll keep my hopes high. The hinge on the shin bothers me. Edited September 23, 2008 by badboy00z
GGemini Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 how does that work, the resin prototype looks better than the Test shot. arn't these suposed to get BETTER when newer preproduction stuff comes out? also I got to say the fast packs look great. I think it all went wrong when they chose the materials for the final product. Since apparently there's nothing much to do at this point in trying to correct this one, maybe they'll follow in Yamato's footsteps and make some adjustments for the remaining ones (VF-25S, VF-25G...) ... and then release the VF-25 v2
Graham Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Guessing it wont have removable intake covers like Yamato. Graham
GGemini Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 I remember that the VF-19k shown in the "Macross Fastest LiftOff!" Special had a very nice color and paint, non-traslucent plastic and it even looked bigger (probably 1/55 scale). I was disappointed when I got the actual toy. I hope the history doesn't repeat itself... Additional to the non-removable intake covers, add non-articulated hands and apparently no stand.
wolfx Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Urgh....appalling. Frankly i hope this DX will be scapped ala VF-0 and get completely reworked. IF i ever do get the DX and it remains like this, i'll leave it in fighter mode cuz that's the mode that's least appalling.
anime52k8 Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 I remember that the VF-19k shown in the "Macross Fastest LiftOff!" Special had a very nice color and paint, non-traslucent plastic and it even looked bigger (probably 1/55 scale). I was disappointed when I got the actual toy. I hope the history doesn't repeat itself... Additional to the non-removable intake covers, add non-articulated hands and apparently no stand. other than the stand (which so far only two of yamato's valks come with) I don't think the intakes and hands are a big deal. (everyone alway's seems to bitch about the articulated hands anyways) and I never take the intake covers out, so one less part ot fall off/lose.
eugimon Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 I remember that the VF-19k shown in the "Macross Fastest LiftOff!" Special had a very nice color and paint, non-traslucent plastic and it even looked bigger (probably 1/55 scale). I was disappointed when I got the actual toy. I hope the history doesn't repeat itself... Additional to the non-removable intake covers, add non-articulated hands and apparently no stand. non articulated hands from bandai would be just sad. One of the best things they got going is how awesome the hands on their gundam kits are.
Firefox Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 I'll get the model kit and wait for 15 years for Yamato's make
Kyp Durron Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 wait for 15 years for Yamato's make +1000 I'll happily wait that long at this point. I decided to vote with my wallet and cancel my preorder. If they can't make it look as good as my V2 1/60 Roy 1S and Roy 1S Super/Strike that are sitting on my computer desk as I type this, then Bandai can kiss my ass FO' SHIZZLE!!! I might decide to get these depending on how much improvement the final product has, but if this is the best that Bandai can do, then I hope this DX line sinks like the Titanic. -Kyp
Vifam7 Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 (edited) Can anyone translate the text underneath the Super Pack image? Basically it says that the Super Packs are in development. but the big banner says "to be sold separately". However, in the second scan that Graham gave us, the text says Luca and Michelle's versions will come with the super packs included. The prototype in the HJ article contains the transformation system. Edited September 23, 2008 by Vifam7
jenius Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 If the resin prototype has articulated hands why are their comments that the toy won't have them? Is that stated someone in the writing?
danth Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 (edited) I hear a lot of general complaints about this toy but not many specific ones. Can we list specific problems? That way it won't be perceived as just Banday bashing. 1)The wing root looks really broken up in fighter mode. 2)Short landing gear. 3)Legs hang in fighter mode, leaving a big gap. Anything else? Edited September 23, 2008 by danth
Salamander Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Sigh. As far as I can see, the website pictures show a test shot that only showcase where the diecast is going to be. As Vifam said in his translation, the text below mentions that it has mis-assemblies that it should not be judged upon. It seems to lack some of the internal transformation system parts, based on the sagging ankles and other bits that look like they could use some spring-loaded tab system to stay in place (likely, based on Bandai's other diecast collector's toys). Bandai is not like Yamato, in that their first 'real material' test show does not show the final product before painting, but just a step in the product prototyping. There will be more prototypes.
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