Bandai 1/60 DX VF-25 transformable toy thread

[wolfx]

Also, Shoji can approve whatever he wants. It doesn't mean it's perfect.

Shoji might not approve it but due to pressure from Bandai, you think he has alot of power to stop production cuz it doesn't look as good as he wants it to be? After all its bandai sponsored the show and they want their money from toys ASAP. Its not the same working relationship as he had with Yamato.

[Graham]

With Yamato, Kawamori-san has the power to make them change something he doesn't like.

With Bandai, maybe it's a different case?

Graham

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Possibly Bandai knows people are unhappy and may still make significant changes. Still, if they want to get this thing out by November, they will have to hurry.

Or Kawamori keeps macking significant changes to the design/lineart and they don't want to make final toolings just yet.

any chance that the viewer of the vf 25s be translucent and not painted?

It will be translucent

I'm confident that Yamato can make a great VF-25. Too bad we won't see one for several years.

14 years after Macross Plus first aired, we got the 1/60 YF-21. There is one thing this fandom is known for; it is patient.

from what I've seen now, I don't like it, I hope Bandai can improve, they have the resources and I really want them to, but if this is going to be Yamato expensive 100+ toy and still look like that, then hell no, you're toy sucks and is not worth it

The new toy is a bit over $120, the Yamato valks around similar size, like the Plus and Zero's are all $150-200.

Shoji might not approve it but due to pressure from Bandai, you think he has alot of power to stop production cuz it doesn't look as good as he wants it to be? After all its bandai sponsored the show and they want their money from toys ASAP. Its not the same working relationship as he had with Yamato.

This is true. Plus most of the linearts were already done with most of the valks(VF-1, YF-21, YF-19, etc)

With Yamato, Kawamori-san has the power to make them change something he doesn't like.

With Bandai, maybe it's a different case?

Could be, Bandai is a sponsor, or they might already know of how difficult Kawamori can be to track down at times, and told him they needed stuff done at a set time, so there wouldn't be delays.

[brouken]

After looking at the "official" Battroid lineart posted by David H. and the DX prototype, I must say, I haven't realized how anorexic-looking the VF-25 is. It certainly doesn't seem to be that way in the anime.

Just look at Alto's battroid pose at the opening of the series (Triangular version). Aside from the higher sitting intakes, bigger crotch, and wider shoulders, the DX's proportions seem to be spot on and doesn't look that chunky at all.

IMHO, what Bandai needs to work on aesthetically is the crotch area. If they can lower the hip joint by a few millimeters, I would think that would make a world of difference. I don't know how possible that would be though from an engineering standpoint. Maybe altering that area would compromise the entire fuselage area. I'd rather leave that problem to the engineers.

But then again, I also question how difficult it is to follow Kawamori-san's design considering that the VF-25 is mostly CAD based to begin with.

Oh, and for those of you who say that the SOC line is "chunky" obviously don't have an SOC to begin with. The proportions of the GX-31 Voltes V for example, is very anime accurate. In fact, I thought it was the lankiest interpretation of Voltes V to date. And I don't see how you can call the SOC Eva's "chunky".

Still, I have become a great fan of both Yamato and Bandai. And competition from these two can only mean better products for us consumers in the long run.

[David Hingtgen]

Very large, good scans of the animation models of all 4 main VF-25s in practically every mode with every armor/pack variation:

http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?show...mp;#entry622964 (every Frontier fan should have a copy of these scans just for sheer reference value)

I doubt that every valk was entirely redone prior to the final animation. A weird pose in the OP doesn't counteract every other image.

What we really need are some good screencaps of a "bare" battroid in a "normal" pose for comparison.

[Morpheus]

Very large, good scans of all 4 main VF-25s in practically every mode with every armor/pack variation:

http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?show...mp;#entry622964 (every Frontier fan should have a copy of these scans just for sheer reference value)

I doubt that every valk was entirely redone prior to the final animation. A weird pose in the OP doesn't counteract every other image.

What we really need are some good screencaps of a "bare" battroid in a "normal" pose for comparison.

Crap, I was thinking it was the scan for the toys I would love to see all the toys with the armor/super pack.

[David Hingtgen]

Off to edit...

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Still, I have become a great fan of both Yamato and Bandai. And competition from these two can only mean better products for us consumers in the long run.

More affordable, and variety too! Hey unlike some of the other competitors to Yamato, Bandai actually makes quality product.

[danth]

Shoji might not approve it but due to pressure from Bandai, you think he has alot of power to stop production cuz it doesn't look as good as he wants it to be? After all its bandai sponsored the show and they want their money from toys ASAP. Its not the same working relationship as he had with Yamato.

You realize you are agreeing with me right?

[Sumdumgai]

The huge space between the shield and the left arm is really bad looking, and has been that way for quite a while on the different prototype pics we've seen. I really hope that there is a way to get that shield closer to the arm, because if there isn't, it's another thing that marks the VF-25 down.

[anime52k8]

I really wish I could see what everyone else does in terms of what's wrong with this thing so that I can join the "this toy looks like s**t" angry mob; but frankly I've been comparing this thing to official images for hours, and I jus don't see it. From the way people talk about it you'd think that bandai was making the final toy out of duplos.

Maybe it’s just me but I just can’t find most of the fault people are going on about: the chest and shoulders look fine to me; the leg’s look fine to, they're not too fat or too short, they're the same as the official CG.

There are only 2 problem I have with the current sample, first the shield shouldn't sit so far off the arm (course this could be fixed before the final toy comes out, or maybe the shields just mistransformed and can already be collapsed down more); and second the hips sit a bit too high.

I have a feeling that part of why some people think that the legs are fat and the crotch is to long is because of the legs sitting to high up. fix those and everything would look spot on, and no one would have reason to complain (not that it will stop most of the people here )

hmm...I still don't like the battroid anorexic design look since the start of Frontier, but damn, that chunky 1/60 looks fugly!!! Gerwalk appear to be very limited and fighters a bit off

I understand making a perfect transformation toy is HARD specially working with anime magic, but like previews posters have said, this is from a CG model and not hand drawn, it should be much easier to work around the anime magic although I really don't see much anime magic in the VF transformation

This is the other think that gets me, just because the VF-25 is rendered in CG doesn't mean it can be made to work as a physical toy without some compromises. The VF-25's transformation still relies heavily on anime magic with major sections of the torso passing through each other or being held together with invisible/paper-thin joints and hinges

and I don't see how we can make any judgements on how the the fighter/gerwalk modes look considering that all we've seen of either of those modes are the erliest prototypes.

anyway's I like how the toy looks as is. If they fix the hips great, if not this is still a great looking toy and I'm going to be getting at several. and if yamato comes out with their own VF-25 a decade and a half from now I'll be right there with everyone else here shelling out exorbinant amounts of money for their thick stickers fragile plastic. and in the mean time I'll enjoy my bandai. (P.S. I love Yamato's, I really do. *hugs YF-21* )

Edited September 1, 2008 by anime52k8

[David Hingtgen]

The huge space between the shield and the left arm is really bad looking, and has been that way for quite a while on the different prototype pics we've seen. I really hope that there is a way to get that shield closer to the arm, because if there isn't, it's another thing that marks the VF-25 down.

To me, that's the most glaring, pointless thing. A single hinge in the right spot could make the shield collapse into half its thickness, yet still have room to store the hands.

[EXO]

so if a majority of people that are not satisfied with the way a toy looks we're an angry mob? calm down there... why is it that when it's a negative remark towards a toy people think we want to burn down the manufacturer? I'm glad Bandai has entered the mix. It's a 5 page thread so far and people just want to read... OMG! It's perfect!

[Radd]

I think people are spoiled. They've become used to the level of accuracy present in Yamato toys where Kawamori has final say in what gets released. And even there fans can find things to complain about. Everyone wants the perfect toy. Everyone has their own expectations, both reasonable and unreasonable.

You know what? There's really nothing at all wrong with that. Personally, I've always found that it's incredibly silly to argue with someone that they should simply settle for what they're getting and not complain that they'd like to see better.

One could also argue that what we're seeing is the prototype images, and the final version could very well change. Still, that just means now it is especially important for fans to complain, if there's to be any hope of seeing their desired improvements. Why would any company spend valuable time, money, and resources to make big improvements to a toy that is already hearing nothing but praise? They make these changes because they see a demand for them, and wish to sell as many as possible.

On the other hand, when I look at the Bandai prototypes shown I notice two things. First, that they look noticeably more "toy-like" in detail and proportions than what we've come to expect from Yamato. Second, I notice, as someone else pointed out, that these toys look to be about $50-$100 less than similarly sized Yamato Valkyries. I'm also hoping the QC will be better, and we won't be complaining about loose joints shortly after they're released. All these things need to be considered.

Finally, it is always important to realize that criticism and complaints are not the opposite of enthusiasm, apathy is.

[brouken]

Thanks for the scans link David! Though most of these pics are available for viewing at the Macross Mecha Manual already.

Yeah, the primary design does indicate lankiness. I've been watching a few episodes to compare, and the lineart seems to be consistent (except for the the OP pose, which as David pointed out, is indeed "weird").

Still, the uncolored DX shown in the pics are proportioned nicely in my opinion. As this seems to be the more refined prototype compared to the colored one, I'm expecting this is as close to production as we're going to get.

Is there anyway that we can send comments directly to Bandai to accommodate our observations? Surely, we have some form of liaison with them ala Graham?

Points to consider:

1) Lower the hip joints

2) Make sure the shield is closer to the forearm

At least, these are the most important in my opinion.

Whether or not Bandai listens however, is another matter entirely. For all we know, Kawamori-san himself already pointed these out to the toy engineers and was told that it was not possible.

[David Hingtgen]

If the hip joints were moved, the whole battroid would look better---a visually longer/narrower torso. Really, it's not so much the legs themselves, but how the whole waist/hip area looks due to positioning. (and I'd blame the thighs if anything, if you want to put some blame into the actual leg--the lower legs seem fine)

[anime52k8]

here's a thought, does anyone know if the intake covers will be removable? I've noticed that in all the pics the intake cover looks to be part of the thigh. I hope I'm just seeing it wrong...

[Sumdumgai]

If bandai stays true to form from the past two decades of making valkyries, then the intake covers will be fixed (see 1/55 VF-1 and 1/65 VF-19 and VF-17). It sure does look like it's part of the thigh.

[David Hingtgen]

Not to mention that Yamato style just plain looks stupid when they're "open", since the compressor fan's about 1 inch from the intake lip...

[EXO]

yeah, I rarely take off the intake covers, though I think it's a neat feature. I rather have that than removeable nosecones or moving wingflaps.

[wolfx]

You realize you are agreeing with me right?

I am?

What i was saying is Kawamori's approval/disapproval might not even mean anything to Bandai. I'm sure he dreams of the "perfect valk" like every one of us, but Bandai for reasons unknown aren't giving us the perfect valk. If Kawamori disapproves, they'll just show him the finger. (figuratively)

[Twoducks]

One could say that getting the joy of multiple product lines for MF has actually bitten us in the ass.

Since Bandai has three VF-25 lined up (three transforming VF-25 to be exact), they branch out their effort and centre on a different aspect in each one instead of focusing in just one toy to give us the “jack of all aces” or perfect valk. The chances of a Macross purist being let down are big.

Since I only buy what I like (be it made by X, Y or Z), I don’t care if it deviates from the CG models or drawings of a famous designer. The more line art accurate model kit I don’t like so I don’t care about it. The take on the DX so far I like so it’s still on preorder and the 1/100 line, if done right could be my favourite future line.

[Dobber]

Fighter mode is what I really care about. I'm still waiting to have a GOOD look at fighter, especially from profile, to see if it is sleek as it should be.

Chris

[Golden Arms]

I'm a fighter mode 1st person as well, but if the battroid looks this off then one has to reason the fighter will also be affected as well.

My biggest gripes have been the same complaints that I've had since first seeing photos of the 1/60 version. The shoulder area needs alot of work, and the hip/crotch area looks completely wrong. The crotch sits way too low and, the hips are too high. The shoulders are spaced too far away from the body and the arms seem a little long.

The more pics I see of this toy, the more convinced I've become that Bandai wont rectify these issues with the production version.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

If bandai stays true to form from the past two decades of making valkyries, then the intake covers will be fixed (see 1/55 VF-1 and 1/65 VF-19 and VF-17). It sure does loo

Or they could fold in like they are supposed to.

What i was saying is Kawamori's approval/disapproval might not even mean anything to Bandai. I'm sure he dreams of the "perfect valk" like every one of us, but Bandai for reasons unknown aren't giving us the perfect valk. If Kawamori disapproves, they'll just show him the finger. laugh.gif (figuratively)

Actually, I don't think they would, they had to go along with his changes that he requested for the head sculpt during the sculpting phase, there may be even more changes, which is why we haven't seen a fully painted final test shot yet.

[QuinJester]

For all we know, it looks the way it does BECAUSE Kawamori asked for it to be that way.

[EXO]

I know Kawamori is the be all, end all god of MW... but am I suppose to like it just because he approved it? For all I know he approved the first 1/60s, which I hated, the 1/72 MacPlus, which I hated, and the Escaflowne toys which were crap. Seems to me like me and the ol' froating head don't always see eye to eye... then there's that whole Macross Seven thing...

[QuinJester]

Am I suppose to like it just because he approved it?

Of course not. Everyone just seems hell bent on this "Bandai is telling Kawamori to shove it, clearly" explanation for why the VF-25 doesn't look like it's been put through a trash compacter. You can like it, or dislike it, as much as you .. ahem.. like.

Edited September 1, 2008 by QuinJester

[badboy00z]

Fighter mode is what I really care about. I'm still waiting to have a GOOD look at fighter, especially from profile, to see if it is sleek as it should be.

Chris

They have an almost profile picture here. Image 22.

[EXO]

Of course not. Everyone just seems hell bent on this "Bandai is telling Kawamori to shove it, clearly" explanation for why the VF-25 doesn't look like it's been put through a trash compacter. You can like it, or dislike it, as much as you .. ahem.. like.

I think it's the exaggerations like "angry mob" and "Bandai is telling Kawamori to shove it" that are the root of the flamings and incessant whinings. People sometimes complain about the negative comments when really it's mostly the people that have no complaints about the toy that are getting bothered. I'm glad some people are satisfied with the toy, it explains t me why Bandai with bother with a sculpt like that.

They have an almost profile picture here. Image 22.

Dude, that's the 1/100. Look at the canopy. That's why we seperated the thread!

[UN Spacy]

Nope. It looks like the Ozma 1/60.

[EXO]

Nope. It looks like the Ozma 1/60.

You're right... my bad badboy00z...

[m0n5t3r]

any info about if these MacF valks have some kind of attachment or slot for it to be mounted on Bandai's Action Base stands, just like for Gundams? that would make it easier and cheaper to display these.... or would these be too heavy?

Edited September 2, 2008 by m0n5t3r

[Dobber]

They have an almost profile picture here. Image 22.

I keep getting internet explorer cnnot open this page message. Can someone have a mod post the pics? If it is more pics of the painted Resin Ozma fighter from the first page, I'd like to see it, but it dosn't appear to be transformable which really wont give us an accurate representation of what the toy's fighter will look like.

Chris

[Salamander]

I keep getting internet explorer cnnot open this page message. Can someone have a mod post the pics? If it is more pics of the painted Resin Ozma fighter from the first page, I'd like to see it, but it dosn't appear to be transformable which really wont give us an accurate representation of what the toy's fighter will look like.

Chris

You probably need to update your flash player...also, try another browser like Firefox or Opera.

Hmm, there are also side pictures of the Gerwalk and you can look straight into the hollow fuselage

Edited September 2, 2008 by Salamander