anime52k8 Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Hey, you found a painted prototype? COOL! don't be silly, that looks WAY sleaker than bandai's sh*tpile.
lechuck Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Macrossworld is a simple place: 7000+ members debate/argue for months and at the end, Yamato products always win.
Hereticpoo Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 This VF-25 is being ripped so hard, is because none of the compromises have strengthened any mode. The battroid looks bad, the gerwalk mode looks bad, and the fighter mode looks bad. At this point the only way it would look that good is going down in flames. The YF-19 and YF-21 still had enough essence of their individual valkyries that people overlooked the compromises. I like the compromises they made and feel it strengthened the toys appearances. There's nothing to like about the compromises made on the VF-25. None of the modes look better. It looks like Bandai is at where Yamato was a decade ago. I do recall what Graham brought up. That it was a choice to make the VF-25 look this way, to appeal to old school fans and fans of the chogokins. Addition: I'd say it's less Yamato fanboyism, and more Bandai is crapping on Macross toy collectors. Bandai is going for a quick buck on selling a mediocre toy to the general population that is less demanding and exacting on looks. For those of us more exacting they throw us the scraps that are the 1/100 partsformers and 1/72 model, and so far the VF-25 is a nice looking scrap, and the 1/72 model looks good too. But for the 1/60 toy, we're probably SOOL for the time being. First of all, I totally agree. I only discovered Macross this year. I was researching Robotech and found this rich Macross culture by accident. So I read up on toys here at the board and I bought my first Macross Toy. A YAMATO VF-1J Stealth 1/48. My point is that as a 'new' fan I can't understand why Bandai would want to go back to the chunky looks. As a new lover of Macross I can say without bias that the chunkies are freakin ugly! No offence to anyone who likes them, I'm not bagging childhoods etc. But thats a poor justification for Bandai not trying to make the sexiest toy they could out of the VF-25.
VFTF1 Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 My eyes, they burn! Please no trannie pics in this thread, or at least post a 'Danger extreme kibble' warning first. Graham Despite being a Transformers fan - I really love Graham's prejudice towards the toys It is healthy, given that things CAN be done so much better. I am not down on Bandai's VF-25F. I think we will all be pleasantly surprised. I also note that this is starting to remind me of PC vs Mac commercials... Yamato will be getting money for the 1/60 1Ds and Maxes and Millias down the line. Bandai gets the Messiahs...fine. Judging from the pics I am not dissapointed. I doesn't look chunky to me - the Messiah is a chunky design in the anime. Pete
Dobber Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Wasn't it mentioned a few weeks ago in a magazine or online article translation that Bandai purposely made the 1/60 DX big n' chunky, to give it an old school feel like the 1/55s? I'd be interested to know what Japanese fans think of the DX sculpt so far? It seems we fans outside Japan want a lineart accurate and slim toy, but how about the Japanese fans, do they want slim or chunky? I wonder is this just a case of Bandai not doing enough market research? Graham If that is the case then that's even worse for me. I guess I'm one of the few who don't like the 1/55 chunky monkeys....too toy like (since that is what they are) They where nice for their time, 25 years ago, but thats it. They are too inacurate, besides nostalgia, I just don't understand their appeal. If the VF-25 DX is trying to replicate that then that really sucks IMO. Chris
Twoducks Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 It's been so long since I last logged in (damn house painters)! Oh goody! 8 more pages since I last came; must be something good iside! *reads...* Surprise! A few unfinished product pics, people rabidly bitching about them, rare sprinkles of members saying in a normal tone that so far they like it or not and Eugimon and his kooky "those never ending legions of evil Bandai fanboy hoodlums" rants... Guess I haven't missed much
eugimon Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 It's been so long since I last logged in (damn house painters)! Oh goody! 8 more pages since I last came; must be something good iside! *reads...* Surprise! A few unfinished product pics, people rabidly bitching about them, rare sprinkles of members saying in a normal tone that so far they like it or not and Eugimon and his kooky "those never ending legions of evil Bandai fanboy hoodlums" rants... Guess I haven't missed much It's just your bad timing then, since I haven't posted in this thread for weeks. But then again, what else do I expect from people who turn every discussion about the failings of the DX into yet another yamato versus bandai thread.
Nani?! Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Macrossworld? Lenient? Well i never compared bandai to yamato but the DX was pretty bad. And i don't think i was ever lenient with yamato. If something looks wrong I'd mention it immediately. Remember when ppl kept whinging on the YF-19's gullet? I'm losing faith here. The prototypes have no improvements on each incarnation and the release date is nearing, i don't see them changing the sculpt any more. no, I didnt mean the whole entire MW community was lenient. I was talking about the people who in this debate between Bandai and Yamato, lean on the Yamato side. There are some here who have their legs on both parties, (with yamato's upgraded most recent efforts, myself now included) but some obviously are more lenient to yamato's "oops' & liberties taken that deviate from the original design".... Many here are saying "I wonder when yamato will get a shot at it..." or "I'm not buying these EVER" soley going off of prototypes.... Some of these people as I clearly recall (but wont name) have damned to hell anyone questioning these same questions back when some of yamato's efforts weren't accurate... That's what I'm "pffff"-ing right now... And those I'm pfff-ing by the way, I'm totally cool with.... but regardless... I like this debate actually... THIS is what it should be...debate the accuracy and opine on whether you think this toy is looking nice or ass crack nasty as it's going..... BUT..... IMO and frankly I think it's only fair to.... do it across the board.... I mean c'mon.... it's only been with what? only the past couple of releases that yamato have done a relatively headache free job... This is bandai's first foray into the current generation of macross toys.... and they made the F'ed up decision to go with what they feel is what nostalgic fans want... As far as I can tell (since I abhor the vf-25 design in the first place anyway), it looks ugly... even if it looked like it accurately.... it looks ugly to me. Reminds me of them flying creatures that attacked anakin and padme in that droid plant in Episode 2.
kanedaestes Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Ah but this isn't their first foray into complex transforming toys and that it where a lot of anger comes from. This isn't the first complex transforming toy and we know that they can do better if they chose too. I am kind of upset by it. I will still at least buy one but would rather spend the money for one and get two of the 1/72 kits which seem far superior to the DX.
Smiley424 Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 I'm gonna wait for some more final pics, but current results don't look promising. Oh well, I guess I don't have to get this valk. More money for me
valhary Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 i feel angry and sad the model kit of the vf 25s looks much better
M'Kyuun Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 Been away from this thread for a few days, so I was pretty excited to see the new pics...until I actually saw them. Yeesh. The shots on pg 15 look really good..I'd be happy with a toy like that. The Tamashii pics on pg 1, if they're an indication of what we're really getting for a 1/60 scale, then, like alot of you guys, I'm pretty disappointed in Bandai. It looks to be of lesser quality than most Deluxe Transformers. Hopefully this isn't the real deal. If so, I'll wait a few years until Yamato finally gets the license.
wolfx Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 i feel angry and sad the model kit of the vf 25s looks much better I just saw the model kits too. Bandai needs to have a little "knowledge sharing" session going on between the DX and 1/72 team.
m0n5t3r Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 (edited) i feel angry and sad the model kit of the vf 25s looks much better me too. seems bandai has perfected the art of making models, why not concentrate on the toys? they are more expensive anyways... Edited September 25, 2008 by m0n5t3r
Arthurius Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 When is Ozma verison, with Fast Packs, comming out anyways??? Thats all i am interested in. And if they cant make a nice toy by the time that comes out, well, i just figured out how to use my air brush, so will buy the model version!!! However, in all honestly, i would rather have a 1/60 to go with my yamatoes!!!
badboy00z Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 Bandai market research should really visit forums such as this one. I mean, the real fans of anime series usually belong to forums. Do they expect someone not familiar with the series to buy the toys if they just saw it at a store?
Vegas Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 (edited) it wouldve been better if the torso was a little longer and it didnt had an oversized feet. also bandai needs to fire whoever is in charge of the DX version and replace the guy with someone has a set of good eyes. Edited September 25, 2008 by Vegas
Cybergig1 Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 yeah definitely have to agree the 1/72 just looks bad@$$. The fighter mode looks sleek like its supposed to and not all clunky :\ like the others I'd rather have a set of all the skull squadron in 1/72 flavor if the DX is gonna look that $#itty in fighter mode, and well every mode and are the 1/72's already out? I saw HJL saying they were discontinued already
Graham Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 Here's a new magazine scan of the 1/60 DX that MWer mickayesou posted in the VF100s thread earlier today. I am moving the picture to the correct thread. Graham
valhary Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 bandai had made beautiful toys like gundam, saint seiya, mazinger z, etc. but seems that not even care macross series and compare with yamato valkyries i think that kawamori should change the license of the frontier toys and all the other macross series
badboy00z Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 Besides the short landing gear and the legs hanging too low (because it's not snapped into place/ it's still a prototype) fighter mode doesn't look all that bad IMO.
Black Valkyrie Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 Its starting to look nice, even if its a fatty and chunky valk.
anime52k8 Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 (edited) it wouldve been better if the torso was a little longer and it didnt had an oversized feet. also bandai needs to fire whoever is in charge of the DX version and replace the guy with someone has a set of good eyes. it would be better if the legs were lower (the torso is fine), and the feet aren't even that big. also, I don't see whats so wrong about the fighter mode. the legs hanging down is present on ALL versions of the VF-25 (even the model kit), and more than likely it won't be an issue in the production verison (either it will have a locking mechanism or the joints will be tighter so it will hold position better. overall, I think the perportions on this thing are much better than the VF100 toy; not quite as good as the 1/72 model, but then again I won't have to asemble and paint this one. I do think the short landing gear look like crap, but maybe they'll change them in the next 3 months (and I never display these things with gears down anyway's). Only other thing that bugs me is the how the back of the valk curves in gerwalk mode, but hopefully that's a product of loose joints as well. Edited September 25, 2008 by anime52k8
sucker4meltrans Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 its bandai you knew it would come out a chunky monkey.
ruskiiVFaussie Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 (edited) lol sad. i wonder how it poses for action shots... i am still getting an Ozma, but that's all for the VF-25 chunky monkey for me. Edited September 25, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie
Shaggydog Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 I'll repeat the question that was ignored in the other thread: that picture shows a blue vf-25g and a green rvf-25. The text suggests that they will be made in the DX line. Did we already know about this? Also, the text comments that the DX toy will have to live up to the Chogokin name (in terms of sturdiness, etc.). So it looks like Bandai is shooting for a 'toy' rather than a 'display model' here, which is good for me, but probably not for most MWers.
QuinJester Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 I'll repeat the question that was ignored in the other thread: that picture shows a blue vf-25g and a green rvf-25. The text suggests that they will be made in the DX line. Did we already know about this? Yup, Michel's and Luca's were confirmed, supposedly coming with Super parts, too.
1/1 LowViz Lurker Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 (edited) Wow lots of arguments in here. hehe I don't get it: how come so many people celebrate the classic chunky munky vf-1 for being so cool due to it being so strong....but when the vf-25 tries to be like a chunky munky (sturdy toy) it gets bashed so much? You guys have double standards. I want to see bandai make a PG kit before the license is handed to yamato. Clearly the 1/72 kit demonstrates they can make a sleek robot and jet. With larger size and no need to follow the strict rule of an indestructible toy, they could satisfy fans better. Edited September 25, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker
kanedaestes Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 (edited) Because the Classic Chunky Munky is that classic. It is tied to the memories of people who first got into Macross and was their only toys. With the new releases of the vf-1 people have come to expect leaner better valks now. Most people don't like the chunky monkey style of the Mac 7 valks they just accepted them because there was nothing else. Now that we have better stuff there is no reason to just accept a chunky valk. I love the OG chunkies for their nostalgia value and the feelings i get when i see it which brings me back to my childhood but i don't have to accept newer valks to be chunky if i know they can do better and still make a sturdy toy. Edited September 25, 2008 by kanedaestes
Cybergig1 Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 Here's a new magazine scan of the 1/60 DX that MWer mickayesou posted in the VF100s thread earlier today. I am moving the picture to the correct thread. Graham nice its starting to look a bit better. Fighter mode especially. Hopefully once it actually comes out it'll be better then everyones thinking
Vifam7 Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 Wow lots of arguments in here. hehe I don't get it: how come so many people celebrate the classic chunky munky vf-1 for being so cool due to it being so strong....but when the vf-25 tries to be like a chunky munky (sturdy toy) it gets bashed so much? You guys have double standards. The old Takatoku toy is a product of its time so it gets a bit of leeway. The DX toy is a product of today so naturally expectations are sky high. Ie. we want perfect sculpt and sturdiness and low price! Ofcourse easier said than done.
VFTF1 Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 I shall reiterate that I think the Bandai VF-25 looks like...the VF-25. I honestly don't see it as chunky or anything of the sort. It looks fine. The model looks "better" now because the 1/72 final version is out so people have seen the final version. I don't know if anybody remembers, but the prototype pictures of the 1/72 model weren't all that great either... Pete
1/1 LowViz Lurker Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 (edited) See that's why I have this conspiracy that bandai wants to scare people with those pics on purpose to generate buzz. "Arrrgh the toy sucks...I'm cancelling!" then the final toy comes out, and makes them come back more excited than ever. No guarantee this is in fact what is going to happen, but I'm just saying... The old Takatoku toy is a product of its time so it gets a bit of leeway. The DX toy is a product of today so naturally expectations are sky high. Ie. we want perfect sculpt and sturdiness and low price! Yeah but at the end of the day: if people are buying the chunky even now, (whether it be for nostalgia, love of fat robots, for collectors who just have to have the rare release or the various newer releases because the boxes look a bit different etc) that = $$$ for bandai, so from their business point of view they must ask themselves if it really makes a difference to them. Yamato clearly set out to get sculpt right, bandai chose to please the chunky fanbase (which could be bigger than the yamato fanbase) in order to make the most $. Now we know it's not from lack of skill because the model looks nice and skinny, so I got to guess it was that they want strength. (strong robots are chunky, armored, hulking masses with broad features and have weight) Unlike others though I don't think it is at the level of the chunkys like the macross 7 toys or anything. This isn't anything like those because its aimed at the adult collector. But at the same time: yamato when they did the 1/48 were relying on a smaller audience and made limited numbers of the thing. Probably not expecting people to buy large numbers of it (ie treating it like a main toy line the way the fans on this board do by buying whole squadrons of the things). I see it as bandai chickening out perhaps? Going for the masses/casual fans and cashing in while yamato (unable to cater to the masses at the time) catering to the whim of the smaller group of hardcore lineart nazi fans. (who; unlike the casual fans, are willing to pay a much higher price for more accurate details and sculpt for a toy that was aimed to be made in limited quantity) I still remember when people were actually angry that yamato were going to re-issue 1/48 Roy and being pissed now that there would be over-supply of 1/48 VF-1 floating around out there. To think that someone would be pissed makes me laugh: I mean don't you want the company to make more money and then reinvest into more toys for the future? But it demonstrates my point that the "limited run" thing was why those toys were made to please the hardcore and were able to command those prices. Because the audience was smaller than the typical gundam model buyers due to macross not being as profitable to them at the time. (so that means individuals must accept paying more to make it worth the risk) Bandai chickening out means they want the $ from the casual fans of macross more than the hardcore ones who are obsessed with every single detail matching what they see. (people too lazy to build the models) ..Anyway I'm going to hold off until final pics are shown, in case it turns out that the final thing looks different from what we are seeing. Edited September 25, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker
CF18 Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 I think the blog post is just "Look here is what we have, so we still got a lot of work to do, so please forgive us for the delay."
carzooyah Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 Personally, I agree with VFTF1 and say that the VF-25 looks like a VF-25. It does look off now but I like the sculpt for all its worth. If BANDAI could increase the durability over the standard Yamato equivalent then it's a winner in my book. I'd get one of each when it's released (if I still can). The cheaper price tag doesn't hurt too.
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