azrael Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 At least they are thinking of having the gunpod attached to the underbelly like in the show. The 1/72 model kinda skipped that.
wolfx Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 I hear a lot of general complaints about this toy but not many specific ones. Can we list specific problems? That way it won't be perceived as just Banday bashing. 1)The wing root looks really broken up in fighter mode. 2)Short landing gear. 3)Legs hang in fighter mode, leaving a big gap. Anything else? If you're been following the thread people have made their points. 5.) Legs are too high up the torso (main complaint) 6.) shoulders are abit chunky 7.) shield connects too far from the hand 8.) head lasers are too far apart from the head amongst those i remember. Let me add that the shoulder connection points look really fragile looking and doesn't look like its part of the upper torso at all. Kinda bad design there.
Vifam7 Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Let me add that the shoulder connection points look really fragile looking and doesn't look like its part of the upper torso at all. Kinda bad design there. Fragility shouldn't be an issue if that part will be made of metal as hinted so far.
OmegaD3k Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 (edited) *adds to the list* 9.) oversized, thick, clunky and chunky overall proportions, which make the thing look like a toy rather than a high end masterpiece collectible (this alone was enough to make me cancel my pre-order - want something accurate and as close to the original intent of the creator as possible) 10.) huge joints which are not well hidden within the design of the figure and are visually exposed for all to see (elbow/arm joints), taking much away from the overall aesthetic 11.) fighter mode is not sleek and looks fat 12.) Gerwalk mode - the pieces seem floppy and do not look like they blend in with the craft at all - giving a sense of a sloppy design work 13.) bigger feet than a Gundam The model version of the VF-25 is PERFECT. Strange though, I wonder why they didn't make them similar? Edited September 23, 2008 by OmegaD3k
anime52k8 Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 If you're been following the thread people have made their points. 5.) Legs are too high up the torso (main complaint) 6.) shoulders are abit chunky 7.) shield connects too far from the hand 8.) head lasers are too far apart from the head amongst those i remember. Let me add that the shoulder connection points look really fragile looking and doesn't look like its part of the upper torso at all. Kinda bad design there. 7) legs are too fat 8)arms are too long 9)Feet are too big (are we past this one, I forget) 10)hands don't articulate (don't know if this is fact or not) 11)no removable intake covers 12)the intakes on the chest parts are just painted indentations. 13)nose of the plane droops in gerwalk mode 14)the Nose cone looks F***ed up in fighter and gerwalk mode 15)gun pod is too skinny 16)head sits too low in batroid mode. 17)use of diecast in the hips sucks. 18)crotch piece is wrong (forget how, but someone mentioned it) 19)all the hinges are masive and ugly I'm sure there's more, but I can't think of them off the top of my head
Ghost Train Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 The shots that Graham posted yesterday look much better! Hope meter rising: [|| ] 40% (^) Hopefully for Bandai, "Test Shot" has a different meaning lol. Looking at the Tamashii photos for the fighter again, which is where my eyes hurt the most, it does look more like a demo rather than an advanced prototype. I just noticed that the legs on the fighter are clearly "unhinged" and loose, making the fighter look bulkier than it should. This seems to be supported by the translations already posted indicating that the photos were designed to just indicate the locations of die-cast parts. Now ( /puts on fire suit), I will admit I don't really like the VF-25 battroid that much in the series... it looks a bit too anorexic and fragile for my tastes, I did find the earlier shots of the DX 1/60 (despite the bulkier look), to be a bit more pleasing for my tastes... but then again, I also like voluptous women better .
1/1 LowViz Lurker Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 (edited) Bandai is not like Yamato, in that their first 'real material' test show does not show the final product before painting, but just a step in the product prototyping. There will be more prototypes. That's why I always say I will await reviews first before making a decision. I keep checking this thread. Never believed in preordering stuff based only on how wet my pants are at pics. Oh and about the kit: so the gunpod can't be stored in fighter mode? That sucks.. Edited September 23, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker
eugimon Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Sigh. As far as I can see, the website pictures show a test shot that only showcase where the diecast is going to be. As Vifam said in his translation, the text below mentions that it has mis-assemblies that it should not be judged upon. It seems to lack some of the internal transformation system parts, based on the sagging ankles and other bits that look like they could use some spring-loaded tab system to stay in place (likely, based on Bandai's other diecast collector's toys). Bandai is not like Yamato, in that their first 'real material' test show does not show the final product before painting, but just a step in the product prototyping. There will be more prototypes. yes, yes, we've been hearing this argument since the very first test shots came out and yet the design and proportions have not changed at all except for hiding the canopy hinge.
Ghostkiller Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 hope there is more proto if not bandai made us a chunky valk this is a toy and not a masterpiece bandai has its own definition of masterpiece..... Bandai should use nowadays technology seriously and thinking about the design : there is no anime magic in the vf-25 at all so how can bandai end up with an ugly toy ? I am glad I did not preorder this chunky
azrael Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 The model version of the VF-25 is PERFECT. Strange though, I wonder why they didn't make them similar? Toy = Play and abuse. Model = Look only. The DX has to suffer some punishment, or else it's not a toy.
lechuck Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 I find it amusing that so many of you are criticizing the Battroid mode, even though most of you rather have Yamato emphasize fighter mode over the cost of other modes for display purposes. Hypocrisy I say. As for me, I'd think it does need a bit more refinement, but I think it's coming along. I'll wait until December and in the mean time will try to ignore the "Yamato annihilates all when it comes to Macross" posts.
eugimon Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 I find it amusing that so many of you are criticizing the Battroid mode, even though most of you rather have Yamato emphasize fighter mode over the cost of other modes for display purposes. Hypocrisy I say. As for me, I'd think it does need a bit more refinement, but I think it's coming along. I'll wait until December and in the mean time will try to ignore the "Yamato annihilates all when it comes to Macross" posts. maybe it's because fighter mode looks ass ugly as well. If you're going to make one mode look like 20 dollar transformer, then the bot mode should look kick ass. Unfortunately, it only looks like ass. This isn't about yamato annihilating, this is about the DX sucking.
recon Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Sighs the legs (omega thunder pants syndrome), arms (eva syndrome), feet ( mcdonalds foot syndrome), extended shoulders, non articulated hands, non clear lens visor, sort of puts me off. The prototype pics as much as it shows a considerable amount of detail in the sculpt, leaves much to be desire, reminds me of the 1/72 YF-21 sculpt. Really wished bandai would have adopted the 1/72 VF-25 design for the 1/60 version. Oh well, i shall be contended with what yamato has to offer in the meantime
David Hingtgen Posted September 23, 2008 Author Posted September 23, 2008 For me at least, I criticize the battroid mode of this one (despite me being a fighter-mode-fan overall of valks) because that's what defines the VF-25. I mean c'mon---in fighter mode, it's pretty darn generic as valks go. It looks like a VF-1. And a VF-0. And a VF-5000. And the Sv-51. But battroid mode---it's really skinny. That's pretty much what defines this valk. "What's the VF-25? The anorexic one in battroid mode". So when battroid mode is FAT---well, then it's lost the defining characteristic of the VF-25 IMHO.
Nani?! Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 (edited) I've been away for a while so it's interesting to see the developments of this thing. I agree with the many complaint's here... the landing gear looks tacky as it is now, Battroid overall being a bit wider, the unsightly gaps (as they always are with most protoypes), the head antennas still look a bit wide and from shot to shot the look of the thing vastly shifts because the position of the shoulders and crotch are posed different all the time... Not a big fan of how the elbow joint looks aesthetically... but.... the funny thing is... I've seen some of you guys MUCH more lenient to Yamato's "interpretations" of valks and hail some of them masterpieces even despite more serious flaws, and/or compromised proportions. What happened to the "wait-and-see for the final production photos" attitude? Compromises were made with this... no doubt... but when did Yamato NOT compromise? I love Yamato's recent work. Hopefully more than anything... this will fuel yamato to do even better~ Yosh! Edited September 23, 2008 by Nani?!
David Hingtgen Posted September 23, 2008 Author Posted September 23, 2008 Because we've seen what Bandai can do, in the 1/72 model. It's better in every way, yet smaller and cheaper. Why is the far more expensive, bigger one less accurate in every mode?
eugimon Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Because we've seen what Bandai can do, in the 1/72 model. It's better in every way, yet smaller and cheaper. Why is the far more expensive, bigger one less accurate in every mode? Also, years of listening to bandai fanboys talking about how great it would be if bandai got the macross license back, how we'd be blown away with "perfect grade technology", how bandai would make yamato look like a bunch of clowns, how we're all sheep for buying yamatos, how bandai would make a valk look perfect in all modes and be sturdy.
QuinJester Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Because we've seen what Bandai can do, in the 1/72 model. It's better in every way, yet smaller and cheaper. Why is the far more expensive, bigger one less accurate in every mode? While I'm hardly being an "apologist" here, some things to consider why the model can be more accurate, for example, in the legs: the DX version has to stuff a full set of working landing gear and the accompanying hinges into the legs, while maintaining the slide-out internals (visible in battroid mode, so you can't just skip them). If you look at the model kit, all of that nice, thin, svelte leg is taken up by the ankle slide mechanism since it gets to ignore the whole landing gear bay. This means the lower legs on the DX have to be a bit bulkier, which in turn means the rest of the leg follows suit to keep the whole design balanced, and now you have heftier heftier thighs and a more spread out back and chest area (due to the enlarged legs). With the spread back area, you end up with wider shoulder hinges to clear around the wider chest, etc.. etc.. so on, so forth, it continues like a landslide. ... And that's even with the smaller landing gear they seem to have fitted in! Imagine if it was as stupidly long as the model kit? We'd have thunder thighs of SV-51 proportions. The model is lucky, it gets to cheat and doesn't have to dance around the whole issue of "durability", because hey, it's a model kit! If it breaks, Bandai can just waggle a finger at you and say "you shouldn't have been playing with it, then". The VF100 VF-25 will be in the same boat, with a parts swapping design it can afford again to slim those calves and thighs down to the bony structure we see on the show. While on the one hand it's easy to say "Yamato could do better!", it's also very, very easy to look at the completely inaccurate proportions of the YF-19 (fighter) and YF-21 (battroid) and say "I guess everyone has to cheat sometimes". At least there are options (cheaper, even!) for those who absolutely loathe the proportions of the DX version.
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Also, years of listening to bandai fanboys talking about how great it would be if bandai got the macross license back, how we'd be blown away with "perfect grade technology", how bandai would make yamato look like a bunch of clowns, how we're all sheep for buying yamatos, how bandai would make a valk look perfect in all modes and be sturdy. Which they said as a response to years of this place turning into YamatoWorld and how Yamato makes accurate looking toys with fixable arms that might break but can still be fixed. And after 8 years, the YF-19 Yamato made still has a gullet. The landing gear look like ass on the model. Too long. Yes in the anime no one knows which one is more accurate, but the toy gear just needs to be a little longer and it will look good, not the mosquito looking gear on the model. I've seen some of you guys MUCH more lenient to Yamato's "interpretations" of valks and hail some of them masterpieces even despite more serious flaws, and/or compromised proportions. What happened to the "wait-and-see for the final production photos" attitude? Simple, if it was labeled Yamato, people would have that attitude, anything else?=Fail I hope the 25 turns out well, I don't think it looks bad aside the landing gear. I like the bulky appearance in battroid mode on the DX. I can see why the battroid fans are dissapointed though. Even if the test shot shown reaches final production(yeah even if I know it won't), it still does not look as inaccurate as the DX Macross 7 valks everyone seems to be likening these too. It isn't the most accurate but its not ugly to me. Its not like certain $20 Transformers that were mentioned here, not even freaking close, and being a guy that has the Transformers in question? Yeah, not even close.
kaiotheforsaken Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 I'm not sure durability is a justifiable excuse for why the DX looks so much worse than its model counterpart. Bandai almost always throws metal into their more expensive toys. Stuff some metal joints in this beast and call it a day (I realize joints aren't the only factor, but they are a big one). I really liked the design of this sucker in the show, but this is something I wont be adding to my collection if it stays looking like this. The big difference I see between a Yamato compromise and this thing is that I still like at least 1 mode of a design Yamato had to compromise on, and I don't like this at all.
jenius Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 I'm not a big VF-25 fan but I'm still really looking forward to this toy. There's a lot of hype factor here and I can't wait to see if it lives up to it. Can you imagine if the DX looks subpar AND has shoulders like a Yamato product? Goo, there will be calls for violence! What I'm hoping we see is a complicated toy that feels sturdy... a vibe Yamato had largely been missing (up until their recent 1/60 v2). I won't be shocked if things go in much different directions but that's why I'm excited.
eugimon Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Which they said as a response to years of this place turning into YamatoWorld and how Yamato makes accurate looking toys with fixable arms that might break but can still be fixed. And after 8 years, the YF-19 Yamato made still has a gullet. Ah, if only this retcon were true. No, unfortunately we have had brand new spanking members who come here and within the first day are droning on and on about bandai this, perfect grade that. The landing gear look like ass on the model. Too long. Yes in the anime no one knows which one is more accurate, but the toy gear just needs to be a little longer and it will look good, not the mosquito looking gear on the model. Simple, if it was labeled Yamato, people would have that attitude, anything else?=Fail I hope the 25 turns out well, I don't think it looks bad aside the landing gear. I like the bulky appearance in battroid mode on the DX. I can see why the battroid fans are dissapointed though. Even if the test shot shown reaches final production(yeah even if I know it won't), it still does not look as inaccurate as the DX Macross 7 valks everyone seems to be likening these too. It isn't the most accurate but its not ugly to me. Its not like certain $20 Transformers that were mentioned here, not even freaking close, and being a guy that has the Transformers in question? Yeah, not even close. Yes.. and this explains the vf-11 thread where people are already saying "deal breaker" over a toy they've never seen... because we're all yamato sheep. And no, fighter mode DOES look like a transformer, the legs are just hanging there off the the body, they didn't even attempt to steamline it and with giant hinges, all screams of a cheap and rushed effort.
David Hingtgen Posted September 23, 2008 Author Posted September 23, 2008 I've gotta say, the legs really do hang low and seem "disconnected" from the fuselage in fighter mode. The first pics, we all thought it just wasn't quite "up and locked and transformed right". But every subsequent pic has been like that.
wolfx Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 the funny thing is... I've seen some of you guys MUCH more lenient to Yamato's "interpretations" of valks and hail some of them masterpieces even despite more serious flaws, and/or compromised proportions. What happened to the "wait-and-see for the final production photos" attitude? Compromises were made with this... no doubt... but when did Yamato NOT compromise? I love Yamato's recent work. Hopefully more than anything... this will fuel yamato to do even better~ Yosh! Macrossworld? Lenient? Well i never compared bandai to yamato but the DX was pretty bad. And i don't think i was ever lenient with yamato. If something looks wrong I'd mention it immediately. Remember when ppl kept whinging on the YF-19's gullet? I'm losing faith here. The prototypes have no improvements on each incarnation and the release date is nearing, i don't see them changing the sculpt any more.
Dobber Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Preorder canceled. I am 1 of thefighter mode people here and it looks pretty bad IMO...and like what someone else said none of the modes really look good. Eugimon and a few others have already said just about everything that I feel about this thing. I understand the reasons why the model looks better as Azreal stated, BUT....this is just a toy for kids....not at $130. It's supposed to be high end. This doesn't look high end at all. If I'm wrong, great....I'll get it later, but as of now I'm passing. Chris
GGemini Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 I was really hoping that Bandai's "expertise" would make this a decent competition to Yamato's valks... but then again, Bandai has only made 2 transformable toys for Macross EVER. Yes, they issued the 1/55's but the original mold was not theirs. And after 14 years, they're going back to the toys... and they're not going to do as well as I thought. Yamato on the other hand, has been using the trial and error system and it's worked wonders. Yes, they still have some issues but they're getting better with every release. Still I will get the VF-25 becase I like it and who knows when we'll get a new version (like the VF-17 from Mac 7). Hopefully whatever issues the VF-25F comes out with will be fixed for the rest of the line.
Graham Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Wasn't it mentioned a few weeks ago in a magazine or online article translation that Bandai purposely made the 1/60 DX big n' chunky, to give it an old school feel like the 1/55s? I'd be interested to know what Japanese fans think of the DX sculpt so far? It seems we fans outside Japan want a lineart accurate and slim toy, but how about the Japanese fans, do they want slim or chunky? I wonder is this just a case of Bandai not doing enough market research? Graham
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 And no, fighter mode DOES look like a transformer, the legs are just hanging there off the the body, they didn't even attempt to steamline it and with giant hinges, all screams of a cheap and rushed effort. Compare the $20 Movie Starscream and the VF-25 and one looks like a jet, one looks like an F-22 with inaccurate vertical stabilizers, a huge undercarriage, 2 huge arms to cover up the fact and gaps all over. Lets even compare the $25 Silverbolt who is more recent...yup..jet with huge undercarriage yet again.
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Wasn't it mentioned a few weeks ago in a magazine or online article translation that Bandai purposely made the 1/60 DX big n' chunky, to give it an old school feel like the 1/55s? I think that was just assumed, I have never heard a translation saying that.
Sumdumgai Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 (edited) This VF-25 is being ripped so hard, is because none of the compromises have strengthened any mode. The battroid looks bad, the gerwalk mode looks bad, and the fighter mode looks bad. At this point the only way it would look that good is going down in flames. The YF-19 and YF-21 still had enough essence of their individual valkyries that people overlooked the compromises. I like the compromises they made and feel it strengthened the toys appearances. There's nothing to like about the compromises made on the VF-25. None of the modes look better. It looks like Bandai is at where Yamato was a decade ago. I do recall what Graham brought up. That it was a choice to make the VF-25 look this way, to appeal to old school fans and fans of the chogokins. Addition: I'd say it's less Yamato fanboyism, and more Bandai is crapping on Macross toy collectors. Bandai is going for a quick buck on selling a mediocre toy to the general population that is less demanding and exacting on looks. For those of us more exacting they throw us the scraps that are the 1/100 partsformers and 1/72 model, and so far the VF-25 is a nice looking scrap, and the 1/72 model looks good too. But for the 1/60 toy, we're probably SOOL for the time being. Edited September 24, 2008 by Sumdumgai
eugimon Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Compare the $20 Movie Starscream and the VF-25 and one looks like a jet, one looks like an F-22 with inaccurate vertical stabilizers, a huge undercarriage, 2 huge arms to cover up the fact and gaps all over. Lets even compare the $25 Silverbolt who is more recent...yup..jet with huge undercarriage yet again. The only difference, imo, is that the DX has the arms tucked away while transformers usually just hang the arms off the/under the wing. The lack of sleekness, the giant hinges, the legs just hanging there not blended into the fuselage at all... it's all just cheap half assed work.
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 The only difference, imo, is that the DX has the arms tucked away while transformers usually just hang the arms off the/under the wing. The lack of sleekness, the giant hinges, the legs just hanging there not blended into the fuselage at all... it's all just cheap half assed work.
eugimon Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Hey, you found a painted prototype? COOL!
Graham Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 My eyes, they burn! Please no trannie pics in this thread, or at least post a 'Danger extreme kibble' warning first. Graham
anime52k8 Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 and thinking about the design : there is no anime magic in the vf-25 at all oh wow. hah. good one man. I've come to realize that around here, it's not about one brand or another. It’s about hating everything that comes down the pipeline. I can't think of a single thing that's come out in the last few years that hasn't been met with constant complaining right up until production and beyond. Whether the complaints are valid or not, and whether said complaints affect anyone's decision to purchase is completely irrelevant. Even when they give us exactly what we've been clamoring for, we find reason to complain. Sure, a lot of the complaints are valid, and everyone's entitled to their opinion, but you've got to admit it wouldn't be a MW toy thread without half the thread being complaints and negativity. Here at MW, Complaining is our national past time.
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