Macross Frontier Episode 21 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Shaka_Z]

Er...ja. I mean, seeing Ranka's leaving as selfish kinda misses the point of why exactly she's leaving. She's not going on vacation, or running away from something. She's running head on towards something. She's probably the first character in the show to come to the conclusion a lot of us came to ages ago. That wasn't rushed at all, this soul searching has been going on for quite some time.

I thought the whole scene was pretty much perfect, right down to Ranka looking to be on the verge of a complete break down as she saw Alto making all the wrong decisions.

For everything people have read far too much into with Frontier, I'm shocked at the things people miss.

if the gg sub is correct in the translation, ranka said she loved alto - past tense, as if she is giving up on him for one reason or another. then again, she also said that she wanted him to go with her. oh well... chalk it up to her not getting right down to it before ai-kun showed up. she should've sounded him out about everything at a different location where they could have had the conversation without interruptions by giant sentient bugs with paper airplane fetishes. he certainly wouldnt have had quite the 'oh crap it's a vajra we missed before!! kill it before it attacks' reaction.

[rubi]

I thought the whole scene was pretty much perfect, right down to Ranka looking to be on the verge of a complete break down as she saw Alto making all the wrong decisions.

For everything people have read far too much into with Frontier, I'm shocked at the things people miss.

I love that scene too, and with the music it was perfect.

But I do understand people who are not satisfied with this episode : this intense scene at the end made forgot all the fight from the beginning

I hope now to see Ranka come back which will be the most epic episode ! I don't care about her figure, but it could be interesting to see what will be people's reaction in front of another Ranka, a HOT Ranka ... Alright, dream on, but at the end of this episode they made her age of 4 years...

[Shaka_Z]

I love that scene too, and with the music it was perfect.

But I do understand people who are not satisfied with this episode : this intense scene at the end made forgot all the fight from the beginning

I hope now to see Ranka come back which will be the most epic episode ! I don't care about her figure, but it could be interesting to see what will be people's reaction in front of another Ranka, a HOT Ranka ... Alright, dream on, but at the end of this episode they made her age of 4 years...

yeah I do expect Ranka to come back a changed woman - a la kerrigan, but not necessarily so dramatically different... ie her outside would have changed, but at heart she would still be Ranka. I think Sheryl is going to go through some more growth as well before the end, as she finally begins to realize her mayan abilities (yes I still think she is related somehow). I would love to hear her sing 'Arkan', given the snip of her rendition of 'aimo' so far. it would be quite interesting.

just think... sheryl's 'aimo' seems much more soulful compared to ranka's original version - more nuanced. if she (may'n) can do the same for Arkan... damn...

Edited September 1, 2008 by Shaka_Z

[rubi]

yeah I do expect Ranka to come back a changed woman - a la kerrigan, but not necessarily so dramatically different... ie her outside would have changed, but at heart she would still be Ranka.

but at heart she would still be Ranka. She is on the Otsu phase from Vagabond, but I expect her to change in a big way, outside like inside.

I doubt they will just made her look beautiful to show how she became a woman, knowing the core of anime is " don't judge a book by it's cover" . ( I don't speak of all the anime nowadays when you see more boobs than scenario ) Each his own !

that's why i can't see the Ranka of now ( Alto kun, Alto kun... ) came back like that. If not well, the vajra can keep her there

She has an urgent need to grow up mentally to be able to face up Grace & cie and physically to please you, if it's for the love plot.

Well, a kind of Relooking extreme

I think Sheryl is going to go through some more growth as well before the end, as she finally begins to realize her mayan abilities (yes I still think she is related somehow). I would love to hear her sing 'Arkan', given the snip of her rendition of 'aimo' so far. it would be quite interesting.

just think... sheryl's 'aimo' seems much more soulful compared to ranka's original version - more nuanced. if she (may'n) can do the same for Arkan... damn...

Sheryl was amazing in episode 20. she didn't think one second about her but about people around her... She really grew up and has nothing to do anymore with the annoying woman at the beginning. It's a shame she didn't grown on me as far as to make me switch Ranka with her, but again, each his own.

I think we might see her and Ranka singing aimo together but I don't remember well the aimo sheryl singed; it was 10 seconds though...

About Arkan...I was not a fan really... french songs should be used for Celion dion,Halliday, Leslie, Pokora, but not for japanese anime.

No offense, for the ones who love it but really, if diamond crevasse was singed in french by sheryl, the sayonara, sayonara nando datte aka au revoir au revoir plusieurs fois in french = I turn the volume down. Many will disagree with me..or not but japanese songs fit well anime. When they mixed japanese/english this is as good. But when this is all in english like in LOGH ( yes again, but i love this show), I don't even remember the OP theme so much it was boring.

So songs like Aimo even if they don't mean really something is OK but like Arkan which looked like opera song remixed for a ED is to avoid for me (yes, I'm far from being a patriot)

Edited September 1, 2008 by rubi

[RichterX]

You're capable of producing tears?

Sure it's not eye sweat from working out the optical muscles?

i think it was a typo and meant he made someone cry three times.

[Shaka_Z]

About Arkan...I was not a fan really... french songs should be used for Celion dion,Halliday, Leslie, Pokora, but not for japanese anime.

No offense, for the ones who love it but really, if diamond crevasse was singed in french by sheryl, the sayonara, sayonara nando datte aka au revoir au revoir plusieurs fois in french = I turn the volume down. Many will disagree with me..or not but japanese songs fit well anime. When they mixed japanese/english this is as good. But when this is all in english like in LOGH ( yes again, but i love this show), I don't even remember the OP theme so much it was boring.

So songs like Aimo even if they don't mean really something is OK but like Arkan which looked like opera song remixed for a ED is to avoid for me (yes, I'm far from being a patriot)

hmm... maybe you should try to not look at it as being an anime, but rather as a sci-fi series that happens to be animated in the japanese style. with today's CGI techniques it is quite do-able as a live action, although it would likely be more expensive per episode than star trek.

One of Macross' biggest draws for me is that it does a pretty good job of presenting characters across a wide range of nationalities and ethnicities (granted ethnicities other than asian and caucasian are still somewhat token roles), and thus avoids much of the medium's pitfalls of japanese characters appearing as 'caucasian'. are you saying that because it is an 'anime' that all the characters should be ethnically japanese? I thought not . same should go for the musical score.

woohoo I own page 24 lol

note that I use the term ethnicity when referring to groups that are historically considered to be races - I do not, have never and will never acknowledge that the classification of race exists - and indeed it does not exist within the realm of the biological sciences.

Edited September 1, 2008 by Shaka_Z

[rubi]

hmm... maybe you should try to not look at it as being an anime, but rather as a sci-fi series that happens to be animated in the japanese style. with today's CGI techniques it is quite do-able as a live action, although it would likely be more expensive per episode than star trek.

One of Macross' biggest draws for me is that it does a pretty good job of presenting characters across a wide range of nationalities and ethnicities (granted ethnicities other than asian and caucasian are still somewhat token roles), and thus avoids much of the medium's pitfalls of japanese characters appearing as 'caucasian'. are you saying that because it is an 'anime' that all the characters should be ethnically japanese? I thought not . same should go for the musical score.

woohoo I own page 24 lol

You're right . But the sci-fi series nowadays don't have vocals, though and it's just my personal opinion about the french music which is not that selling this days...

note that I use the term ethnicity when referring to groups that are historically considered to be races - I do not, have never and will never acknowledge that the classification of race exists - and indeed it does not exist within the realm of the biological sciences.

You're perfectly right here. Only one race should be classified. But you know, the only way to do so, it's for the green chap to appear

I talked about the probability of the existence of another alive form with my father today or rather yesterday( coming up with the scientific excuse ..) and he was like .." What movie did you go to see at the cinema, encore "

Goodnight.

[Nexx Stalker]

I'm sure that if Alto HAD shot at Ai-kun, and the bullet bounced on him and hit Ranka in the side of the head, there's a number of people who would've loudly proclaimed it the best episode ever...

Nah, I would have cried out loud "best episode ever!" only if Alto had shot Ranka first.

Edited September 1, 2008 by Nexx Stalker

[dreamweaver13]

It kind of startles me, too. I'm used to Minmay hate and Basara hate...but no one hates Basara primarily because he's keeping Mylene and Gamlin apart. No one shouted "DIE MAO DIE!" because she had a crush on Shin...but it seems to me that the root cause of Ranka hate is that there are people who REALLY want to see Alto and Sheryl get together, and Ranka's in the way.

I'm sure that if Alto HAD shot at Ai-kun, and the bullet bounced on him and hit Ranka in the side of the head, there's a number of people who would've loudly proclaimed it the best episode ever...

actually i think minmay is the closest thing. for people who wanted Hikaru and Misa to get together, Minmay was always the one who stood in the way. I wonder if those people had the same amount of hatred (and ill-wishes) that ranka's getting these days from Alto-Sheryl fans.

[dreamweaver13]

Nah, I would have cried out loud "best episode ever!" only if Alto had shot Ranka first.

ouch. harsh!

But i'm guessing from your tone that you would have declared the episode "even better than the best" if Alto had shot Ranka after she confessed.

[Gubaba]

You're right . But the sci-fi series nowadays don't have vocals, though and it's just my personal opinion about the french music which is not that selling this days...

You know there's a reference to the France gall classic, Poupée de cire, poupée de son in a Sharon Apple song, don't you?

Nah, I would have cried out loud "best episode ever!" only if Alto had shot Ranka first.

So if he'd shot Ranka between the eyes, and then Ai-kun started taking bites out of her head, it would have been...what? Best Series Ever...?

[JustinStrife]

Ranka

She really didn't do this episode any favors.

[Major Focker]

i really am surprised at how much hate ranka got from this episode.

to me, the developments in this episode are a crucial turning point for the series. ranka just happened to be playing the part of the pivot.

i agree she tends to be self-centered, immature, shortsighted. but that's just how the writers have intended her character to be so as to be a contrast to sheryl. if anything, they may have overplayed the juxtaposition just a little bit. one thing is clear though: the writers are getting to you.

[Agent ONE]

You're capable of producing tears?

Sure it's not eye sweat from working out the optical muscles?

Stay on topic or 2 week ban.

[Gubaba]

She really didn't do this episode any favors.

Maybe not, but she certainly did the FLEET a big favor...and will probably save their collective rear.

[dreamweaver13]

Maybe not, but she certainly did the FLEET a big favor...and will probably save their collective rear.

and Nanase's particularly. her song of love will bring nanase back to life.

let's just hope Luca doesn't pull a Shinji before she wakes up...

[Gubaba]

let's just hope Luca doesn't pull a Shinji before she wakes up...

Gad, I hadn't even thought of that!

Yuck.

[dreamweaver13]

Gad, I hadn't even thought of that!

Yuck.

well, granted there's no way of that happening in a macross series. but if it does...

well, we'll know that sometime between production, Hideaki Anno shot SK in the head, and disguised himself with SK's skin....

would explain all the subtle eva hints...

[grss1982]

It's not just the logic, but even facts get distorted! Oh well, I just needed to vent.

Anyway...

Speaking of those fold drives, before I was under the impression that Brera was a last-minute replacement when Alto refused to go with Ranka. But then the VF-27 had a fold drive with it, so I guess there's some little planning between Brera and Ranka--and Grace?

I just ripped that from a comment by someone at Animesuki, and I'm starting to think that there might be some truth to this statement.

Thoughts, anyone?

[dreamweaver13]

I just ripped that from a comment by someone at Animesuki, and I'm starting to think that there might be some truth to this statement.

Thoughts, anyone?

if i understood correctly, ranka's been planning to leave (hence her letters to ozma and nanase) even before meeting up with alto. so i'm guessing brera was always the planned ticket out of frontier. ranka just wanted to give it a final shot in the dark with alto in case he could accept ai-kun and come along for the ride.

just my perception. haven't watched the subs yet, though, so i could be way, way off on this one.

[grss1982]

It kind of startles me, too. I'm used to Minmay hate and Basara hate...but no one hates Basara primarily because he's keeping Mylene and Gamlin apart. No one shouted "DIE MAO DIE!" because she had a crush on Shin...but it seems to me that the root cause of Ranka hate is that there are people who REALLY want to see Alto and Sheryl get together, and Ranka's in the way.

I'm sure that if Alto HAD shot at Ai-kun, and the bullet bounced on him and hit Ranka in the side of the head, there's a number of people who would've loudly proclaimed it the best episode ever...

I can already see it now.....

Random Poster 1: Best Episode EVAR!!!!

Random Poster 2: Alto X Sheryl FTW!!!!

Random Poster 3: DIE!!! KID!!! DIE!!!

Random Poster 4: That's some Fancy Shooting, ALTO!!!!

I'm really amazed at all the Ranka hate, I've seen.

Maybe I am still in shock or something but this show is one of the best shows I have ever seen.. I mean like better writing than like the Soprannos. I think I have actually cried 3 times now.

Those are MANLY tears, right?

As for me, I felt that the Vajra were cleared away much too easily. Episode 20 was filled with foreboding thanks to the swarming Vajra infestation; I expected them to be around for a while. The Ranka/Island 3/MDE tactic did make narrative sense, but it seemed like a Magic Reset Button to me.

Uhmmm....weren't Infantrymen in Ex-Gears AND the Destroids with flamethrowers (firebats, anyone?) still doing some mop-up operations in episode 21? I'm thinking not all the bugs were not lured towards Island 3.

Edited September 2, 2008 by grss1982

[Macross_Fanboy]

Holy crap! I haven't posted here in forever once again, but yes! This episode really pissed me off too with stupid Ranka and Brera. I hope she dies at the end of it all, at first I was positive Sheryl would die(before the eps she started breaking down in) in a form of self-sacrifice for the fleet, but now I see Ranka dying of self-sacrifice to protect her bugs. Maybe what one member said about it being about protecting the bugs by singing might be true, even if it was sarcasm, it seems all the more likely now. I am curious about how Ozma and Cathy are going to get out of their bind and expose the truth and who else is going to die, besides, as I and others are hoping, Ranka. I would say Luca is next, maybe he'll invent some other doomsday Vajra weapon and he'll be the one to destroy since he created it. It's all up in the air for now. As for Grace and Brera and Ranka scheming together, it seems likely, but that's up in the air still too.

[Morpheus]

and Nanase's particularly. her song of love will bring nanase back to life.

let's just hope Luca doesn't pull a Shinji before she wakes up...

I wonder if some sicko is making a fanart of this

Nanase will wake up Basara style if Luca started to sing Santi-U as Gubaba requested.

[MisaForever]

Lunar AVI FINALLY OUT!!!!!

[Gubaba]

Lunar AVI FINALLY OUT!!!!!

Crap...with THREE episodes released by Shinsen, and now this, it's a big evening for torrents...

[JB0]

I wonder how many sickos are making a fanart of this

I fixed it for you. I have to assume the "if" was a typo.

[yaiba]

thanks that she kept Ai-kun's existence a secret she put the whole convoy in jeopardy.

What harm did Ai-kun ever do to anybody?

Even though it was never stated explicitly, I think it's obvious that Ranka realizes that she is communicating with the Vajra at some level. She is taking a page from the Nausicaa playbook, and is going on a quest to see if she can use her powers to soothe the raging bugs that Galaxy set on them.

[JustinStrife]

Maybe not, but she certainly did the FLEET a big favor...and will probably save their collective rear.

Exactly how did she do the Fleet a big favor? Based on her POV, can you make an argument for that?

We're all speculating she'll return with a horde of Vajra to save Frontier from Galaxy, but certainly she doesn't know any of this, and her leaving had nothing to do with Frontier, and everything to do with her and Ai-kun.

[yaiba]

Exactly how did she do the Fleet a big favor?

Ummm, have you been watching the show? She's already contributed to saving the fleet two or three times already.

[Gubaba]

Exactly how did she do the Fleet a big favor? Based on her POV, can you make an argument for that?

We're all speculating she'll return with a horde of Vajra to save Frontier from Galaxy, but certainly she doesn't know any of this, and her leaving had nothing to do with Frontier, and everything to do with her and Ai-kun.

Um...it's been made ABUNDANTLY clear that she can communicate with the Vajra, and that they want to communicate with her.

Do you think that she's too dense to realize that if she can communicate with them, she can end the war?

[Mercurial Morpheus]

i really am surprised at how much hate ranka got from this episode.

to me, the developments in this episode are a crucial turning point for the series. ranka just happened to be playing the part of the pivot.

i agree she tends to be self-centered, immature, shortsighted. but that's just how the writers have intended her character to be so as to be a contrast to sheryl. if anything, they may have overplayed the juxtaposition just a little bit. one thing is clear though: the writers are getting to you.

Except that both characters share those three qualities, hence there's no contrast in that way. The key contrast is their positions and outward projections, not necessarily their inner qualities. They're more alike than most would admit, if you read into them, particularly Sheryl, writing permitting. Still, I agree about all the hate Ranka's getting. Personally I think her actions are a mix of selfishness and a nagging thought that this is the right thing to do. She knows she has a connection, she knows through Ai-kun that the Vajra aren't all they're made out to be, and she knows she's just being used. I'm sure she also thinks getting another Vajra off Frontier is a good thing for Frontier, and she might have even come to assume that she's attracting them given the affect of her song. It's clear she's thinking of finding the best way for both species. To suggest that she's sided with the Vajra and forsaken Frontier is f-ing ridiculous, and short changes her quite a bit. Frontier is all gung-ho on extermination now, when it's becoming apparent to her that things aren't so black and white. If you can't change from within, try from without. I also think Brera could be acting independently. Her development is actually been quite astounding and much clearer then even Sheryl's (whose had some good and bad moments like Ranka as well) , yet it sounds like she's being condemned for it (I say sounds as I think I don't want to read this whole thread going by some of these comments). Looks like she's damned if she does, and damned if she doesn't. Macross Fanboy, wow, way to take things purely at face value, if even that, but to each their own I guess.

[VF-25S Full Armour]

Except that both characters share those three qualities, hence there's no contrast in that way. The key contrast is their positions and outward projections, not necessarily their inner qualities. They're more alike than most would admit, if you read into them, particularly Sheryl, writing permitting. Still, I agree about all the hate Ranka's getting. Personally I think her actions are a mix of selfishness and a nagging thought that this is the right thing to do. She knows she has a connection, she knows through Ai-kun that the Vajra aren't all they're made out to be, and she knows she's just being used. I'm sure she also thinks getting another Vajra off Frontier is a good thing for Frontier, and she might have even come to assume that she's attracting them given the affect of her song. It's clear she's thinking of finding the best way for both species. To suggest that she's sided with the Vajra and forsaken Frontier is f-ing ridiculous, and short changes her quite a bit. Frontier is all gung-ho on extermination now, when it's becoming apparent to her that things aren't so black and white. If you can't change from within, try from without. I also think Brera could be acting independently. Her development is actually been quite astounding and much clearer then even Sheryl's (whose had some good and bad moments like Ranka as well) , yet it sounds like she's being condemned for it (I say sounds as I think I don't want to read this whole thread going by some of these comments). Looks like she's damned if she does, and damned if she doesn't. Macross Fanboy, wow, way to take things purely at face value, if even that, but to each their own I guess.

Well said, and thanks for saying many of the things I wanted to say all this time, though frankly, there are some points where I must disagree.

It's amazing how ungrateful humans can be, and Macross Frontier managed to portray this so way both in terms of drama and realism. I can personally vouch for my last sentence based on my own life experiences. People tend to forget your good deeds quickly and remember all perceived wrongdoings well. Ranka's singing has given the edge to Frontier's forces numerous times, and in episode 20 we see how quickly hearts turn when people perceive the situation as Ranka failing them, even when it simply wasn't true as proven by her unintentionally provoking the Vajra into greater violence via her own pain.

If it wasn't for Grace's DE, Ranka would have saved so many more lives and hearts from unnecessary death and suffering.

Ranka has definitely figured out that she's practically a homing beacon for the Vajra at the moment and like it or not, her "selfish" reasons for leaving are in the end of the day selfless in nature, since the only way for her to solve both her and Frontier's problem was to stop homing the Vajra to Frontier and resolve her own personal turmoil (recovery of painful pass memories, etc.). What's so wrong with this?

As a very old and wise green fellow once said:

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger, Anger leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering."

Macross is in it's own way a battle between the light and dark side.

I sense much fear in you, Ranka haters.

PS: I am on neither Ranka or Sheryl's side, but I simply find it impossible to hate Ranka and her pet when they both have one thing in common: no intentional harm was done to anyone.

Edited September 2, 2008 by VF-25S Full Armour

[VF-25S Full Armour]

One more thing:

I'm glad that DE mechanics have been revealed alas. Turns out that I was on the right track after all, and when one joins 2 black holes together, one gets a wormhole that channels matter and energy from one end to another. Instead of creating as suitably sized tunnel and transporting large and intact objects, simply let the 3D portal grow gradually as it transports an object to some other area in space in fragments.

[VF-25S Full Armour]

For those who think Ranka is selfish little brat, remember this:

She sang to gather the Vajra at island 3, despite of the fact that she was in pain and that the death of more Vajra would only increase her suffering. Why would she push through such a tremendous pain barrier if she had no love for Frontier?

[dreamweaver13]

For those who think Ranka is selfish little brat, remember this:

She sang to gather the Vajra at island 3, despite of the fact that she was in pain and that the death of more Vajra would only increase her suffering. Why would she push through such a tremendous pain barrier if she had no love for Frontier?

yeah, good point. i'm actually surprised ai-kun didn't kill ranka for that right there and then. "hey alto, can't bring yourself to shoot her? let me kill that mass-murderer!!"