Macross Frontier Episode 21 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[dreamweaver13]

The paperplane off course.

here's a thought: wasn't Sheryl playing on that sky-tv when alto reached it with his paper plane? anyone care to confirm this?

[sdf2501]

Well then I guess were going to have to wait till the ending then.

Imagine they throw a curve ball at us and Alto ends up with Klan, as he tried to comfort her about Micheals death. Or he ends up with Nanase, comforting her about Ranka's departure. Where would the rule be at then?

Or...Bobby.

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

Or...Bobby.

No one would ever see that coming!!

Edited September 1, 2008 by SkullLeaderVF-X

[Spud387]

I believe I see yellow on that valk; looks like Skull-1 is back in action next episode

Edited September 1, 2008 by Spud387

[hobbes221]

Just watched 21 subbed and I have to say that it was great, I really felt for the guys. The photo in the helmet was a tearjerker and the park scene with Alto and Ranka was perfect. For all those who say Alto should have put two into Ai kun you have to remember that Ranka was right in front of him and even the muzzle blast alone can do damage if not outright kill (at least in the real world). You know what, in the end I really could see Alto and Klan becoming close friends if not more in the end. Oh and someone really needs to put a Valkyrie sized boot up Leon's a**, man I hate him and his 'Evil Moe' hair.

Edited September 1, 2008 by hobbes221

[RichterX]

here's a thought: wasn't Sheryl playing on that sky-tv when alto reached it with his paper plane? anyone care to confirm this?

he first sees Sheryl because the paper was a poster for her concert.

[RichterX]

I believe I see yellow on that valk; looks like Skull-1 is back in action next episode

Could well be a new Skull leader since Skull 2, Michel was killed and Skill 1 Ozma is on the run.

edit: didn't mean to repost image

Edited September 1, 2008 by RichterX

[dreamweaver13]

he first sees Sheryl because the paper was a poster for her concert.

Ha!! See?? That even trumps the paper airplane! (oh man this got so silly a long time ago, but what the hell) Sheryl wins!!

[dreamweaver13]

Could well be a new Skull leader since Skull 2, Michel was killed and Skill 1 Ozma is on the run.

edit: didn't mean to repost image

some posted a while back that there's no way alto can become skull 1 unless both ozma and michael are dead.

well, looks like the way is suddenly clear. and all that without having to kill the incumbent skull leader. how bout that!

Michael: "What? i had to die just for the sake of a reference to Hikaru Ichijo becoming skull leader?! teme!!!"

[hobbes221]

Ha!! See?? That even trumps the paper airplane! (oh man this got so silly a long time ago, but what the hell) Sheryl wins!!

Ranka, Sheryl, paper airplane

As all this goes on we see Alto curled up in his rack aboard the Quarter holding his hair, 'my precious' (figures why not, I'll jump in as well )

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

Ranka, Sheryl, paper airplane

As all this goes on we see Alto curled up in his rack aboard the Quarter holding his hair, 'my precious' (figures why not, I'll jump in as well )

You forgot Klan Klan, Nanase, Bobby, and possibly Luca.

[grss1982]

I believe I see yellow on that valk; looks like Skull-1 is back in action next episode

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x42/Spud387/ozma.jpg

It could be Alto in the VF-25S. Introducing a new Skull Leader this late in the game doesn't make sense. Hell for all we know it could be KK or Canaria in the VF-25S.

some posted a while back that there's no way alto can become skull 1 unless both ozma and michael are dead.

well, looks like the way is suddenly clear. and all that without having to kill the incumbent skull leader. how bout that!

Michael: "What? i had to die just for the sake of a reference to Hikaru Ichijo becoming skull leader?! teme!!!"

[RichterX]

You forgot Klan Klan, Nanase, Bobby, and possibly Luca.

Well Luca is Skull 3 after all...

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

Well Luca is Skull 3 after all...

I'm just saying Luca might need some "comforting" also, especially since Nanase is in the hospital.

[Morpheus]

I'm just saying Luca might need some "comforting" also, especially since Nanase is in the hospital.

Well, he can play with his 'Little Girl', he can even mass produce them. Hmm, Luca with an armies of loli bomb (Little Girls)

[m0n5t3r]

Oh and someone really needs to put a Valkyrie sized boot up Leon's a**, man I hate him and his 'Evil Moe' hair.

LOL! yeah, really hate his hair...

[Windrider]

Hmm... 13 negative votes on this episode already? More than episode 20 too. I know this episode wasn't the best in the series but its not as bad as episode 8. Looks like we got trolls here.

[magnuskn]

Hmm... 13 negative votes on this episode already? More than episode 20 too. I know this episode wasn't the best in the series but its not as bad as episode 8. Looks like we got trolls here.

Take a look at the AnimeSuki poll... normally an episode rates about 70+% nines and tens... this time the poll was all over the place. A lot of people really didn´t like it.

[Radd]

Odd. I thought it was a great episode. I wonder what people didn't like about it?

[Nexx Stalker]

Odd. I thought it was a great episode. I wonder what people didn't like about it?

Ranka

[Radd]

This whole Ranka/Sheryl thing just boggles my mind.

[jenius]

What's wrong with the GG torrents??? ARGH!

[Gubaba]

This whole Ranka/Sheryl thing just boggles my mind.

It kind of startles me, too. I'm used to Minmay hate and Basara hate...but no one hates Basara primarily because he's keeping Mylene and Gamlin apart. No one shouted "DIE MAO DIE!" because she had a crush on Shin...but it seems to me that the root cause of Ranka hate is that there are people who REALLY want to see Alto and Sheryl get together, and Ranka's in the way.

I'm sure that if Alto HAD shot at Ai-kun, and the bullet bounced on him and hit Ranka in the side of the head, there's a number of people who would've loudly proclaimed it the best episode ever...

[Agent ONE]

Maybe I am still in shock or something but this show is one of the best shows I have ever seen.. I mean like better writing than like the Soprannos. I think I have actually cried 3 times now.

[Bartagama]

Odd. I thought it was a great episode. I wonder what people didn't like about it?

As for me, I felt that the Vajra were cleared away much too easily. Episode 20 was filled with foreboding thanks to the swarming Vajra infestation; I expected them to be around for a while. The Ranka/Island 3/MDE tactic did make narrative sense, but it seemed like a Magic Reset Button to me.

[Roy Focker]

You're capable of producing tears?

Sure it's not eye sweat from working out the optical muscles?

[Shaka_Z]

As for me, I felt that the Vajra were cleared away much too easily. Episode 20 was filled with foreboding thanks to the swarming Vajra infestation; I expected them to be around for a while. The Ranka/Island 3/MDE tactic did make narrative sense, but it seemed like a Magic Reset Button to me.

not so much a magic reset... remember all the damage and the loss of the Island is still there. and it isnt so much that they were cleared away - they were responding to a summons by their queen. it isn't as if they really had a choice... it could have been stretched out though, by having Ranka actually realize why they are drawn to her, and the ramifications and responsibilities of that realization. it certainly would have given us a great deal more VF-Klan action

ep 20's end punched me in the gut - yes I did shed tears for michel. man tears mind you. 21 wasnt so emotionally demanding by any means. but as I said earlier, Ranka has already begun to equate vajra life with human life - that is not a good sign. conversely it could be a good sign, depending on what kind of pull she truly does have with them.

hmmm.. strange, but am I the only guy here to have shed tears at the end of Zero? I dont really understand some of the criticism leveled that way, as I thought that while it could have been done a bit better, it was still a powerful tale in its' own right. it has to be really something to get tears from me, and the list of series/movies that have forced me to tears is rather short. the list has gotten somewhat longer of late - maybe I am getting old or something.

Edited September 1, 2008 by Shaka_Z

[Realist_Classic]

Odd. I thought it was a great episode. I wonder what people didn't like about it?

Not so much Ranka-hate in my case, but the pacing was just off and I was a bit bothered by the fan service. A week ago we saw Michel go out like a hero and its followed up by a lolwhut Klan in a strapped-on Valkyrie suit Very distracting. A lot of bad things happened (the loss of Island 3 for once), but I didn't get a sense of the emotional gravity. Everything seemed to be overshadowed by Ranka's departure.

I felt that the writers could have done a better job portraying Rank's dilemma between Alto and her responsibility with the Vajra. I would've preferred a little more time on portraying Ranka's inner turmoil. The reason for her departure seemed all be-muddled by the end of the episode.

Edited September 1, 2008 by Realist_Classic

[magnuskn]

It kind of startles me, too. I'm used to Minmay hate and Basara hate...but no one hates Basara primarily because he's keeping Mylene and Gamlin apart. No one shouted "DIE MAO DIE!" because she had a crush on Shin...but it seems to me that the root cause of Ranka hate is that there are people who REALLY want to see Alto and Sheryl get together, and Ranka's in the way.

I'm sure that if Alto HAD shot at Ai-kun, and the bullet bounced on him and hit Ranka in the side of the head, there's a number of people who would've loudly proclaimed it the best episode ever...

Oh, I loudly proclaimed my dislike of Ranka a lot of times, and before episodes 20 and 21 a good lot of it was because of what you said. But in the last two episodes Ranka has demonstrated an unprecedented selfishness, to the point where she leaves the whole of Frontier to die via Vajra ( seeing as to the best of her information, Frontiers weapons are mostly useless against them ).

One can only make excuses for Ranka so many times before certain character traits become crystal clear. For Ranka, everything is only judged in relation to her. Her love for Alto, her joy of singing, her pain because of Altos rejection. The feelings of others seem to not make a very big impact on her perceptions of the world.

[Shaka_Z]

Not so much Ranka-hate in my case, but the pacing was just off and I was a bit bothered by the fan service. A week ago we saw Michel go out like a hero and its followed up by a lolwhut Klan in a strapped-on Valkyrie suit Very distracting. A lot of bad things happened (the loss of Island 3 for once), but I didn't get a sense of the emotional gravity. Everything seemed to be overshadowed by Ranka's departure.

I felt that the writers could have done a better job portraying Rank's dilemma between Alto and her responsibility with the Vajra. I would've preferred a little more time on portraying Ranka's inner turmoil. The reason for her departure seemed all be-muddled by the end of the episode.

I have to agree here... her coming to the decision to leave frontier should have happened *next* episode, after a great deal of self-analysis and soul-searching. so many things that were going down behind the scenes plus the aftermath were watered down because the writer's apparently *had* to squeeze it all into one episode. personally, I would prefer to not be restricted to a set number of episodes like this - even if it meant tying up the series in a tv-movie event like the new BSG is doing.

Edited September 1, 2008 by Shaka_Z

[rubi]

I'm sure that if Alto HAD shot at Ai-kun, and the bullet bounced on him and hit Ranka in the side of the head, there's a number of people who would've loudly proclaimed it the best episode ever...

. But they would have loudly complain after seeing how the plot would have been so easily resolved( the main plot wth Grace like the love plot(well, for that I'm not that sure )) .

Oh, I loudly proclaimed my dislike of Ranka a lot of times, and before episodes 20 and 21 a good lot of it was because of what you said. But in the last two episodes Ranka has demonstrated an unprecedented selfishness, to the point where she leaves the whole of Frontier to die via Vajra ( seeing as to the best of her information, Frontiers weapons are mostly useless against them ).

One can only make excuses for Ranka so many times before certain character traits become crystal clear. For Ranka, everything is only judged in relation to her. Her love for Alto, her joy of singing, her pain because of Altos rejection. The feelings of others seem to not make a very big impact on her perceptions of the world.

This is the first episode when she makes a decision on her own you can't blame her for, at last, doing it .

By the way, maybe you should change your avatar.. looks like he 's shooting someone 's name in

Edited September 1, 2008 by rubi

[Gubaba]

This is the first episode when she makes a decision on her own you can't blame her for, at last, doing it .

What about her decision to go to Gallia IV?

back to the topic at hand...I *kinda* get why people are calling her selfish for her decision to leave...but I guess I view it differently. It seemed to me like she was planning on taking on the Vajra all by herself...and that she wasn't really thinking she would be back (you don't say "Sayonara" to someone you love if you're just going out on a little jaunt).

But I guess I can see how it seemed like she was abandoning Frontier to the tender mercies of the Vajra.

I guess we'll find out in a few days, huh?

[magnuskn]

I guess we'll find out in a few days, huh?

Most probably. I still say she comes back as Sarah Kerrigan. Hopefully with a better disposition, though...

[Radd]

Er...ja. I mean, seeing Ranka's leaving as selfish kinda misses the point of why exactly she's leaving. She's not going on vacation, or running away from something. She's running head on towards something. She's probably the first character in the show to come to the conclusion a lot of us came to ages ago. That wasn't rushed at all, this soul searching has been going on for quite some time.

I thought the whole scene was pretty much perfect, right down to Ranka looking to be on the verge of a complete break down as she saw Alto making all the wrong decisions.

For everything people have read far too much into with Frontier, I'm shocked at the things people miss.

[rubi]

What about her decision to go to Gallia IV?

back to the topic at hand...I *kinda* get why people are calling her selfish for her decision to leave...but I guess I view it differently. It seemed to me like she was planning on taking on the Vajra all by herself...and that she wasn't really thinking she would be back (you don't say "Sayonara" to someone you love if you're just going out on a little jaunt).

But I guess I can see how it seemed like she was abandoning Frontier to the tender mercies of the Vajra.

I guess we'll find out in a few days, huh?

I was talking about prison cell in the other thread and I meet the police more than normally tonight during a drive... Nevermind.

I think she explained it in a bad way. When she talked about taking ai-kun to his friend... this was a naive speech which can be interpreted as a selfish one .

It seemed to me like she was planning on taking on the Vajra all by herself I think that too.

People tend to forgot that maybe she's a child by moment, I admit it(alto kun, alto kun...god) but it's obvious for her that she is the one who is luring the vajra.

In epsiode 21 she is even the bait to kill them. She is pretty aware that the vajra are attracted by her and if she leaves, there are high chances that they will follow her.

I can't say this is the same for Galia IV because Michel,Nanase and Luca helped her to make the decision. Michel was even the one who brought her there.

And Alto was the one she thought when she made this decision. Well, Sheryl too by default, though.

But It's completely different in the episode 21. She didn't think about Alto when she choose to quit Frontier. This was for her( this is true, she wants to know more about her past , why her belly is glooming like that.) and for leaving Frontier in peace.

I can't say this was also for Frontier people because like you said, it was as if she leaved them without their number one weapon, her.

So she leaved Frontier in peace not the people ..... You're right, we will find out in few days

Edited September 1, 2008 by rubi