Macross Frontier News Thread IV *Read 1st post*

[stray]

I just hope the run to the end isn't a super compressed mish-mash of suck, personally. I'm still kind of torn on how I feel about a 2nd season... as long as it was 'planned all along' I think I'd welcome it.

Anyway I guess the 2-3 week lead time before the concerts gives people an opportunity to calm down a bit, however it ends...

Edited August 29, 2008 by stray

[Gubaba]

Hell, I don't even care if it was "planned all along." If they started preparing for it even four months ago, I'll still welcome it.

Failing that, as others have said, I'd love to see a movie edition or an OVA, especially if it tells a follow-up story, rather than just a retelling of the series.

Of course, that's assuming that that the ending will be open enough to enable a sequel...

[mike_s_6]

It wasn't announced, but there was a commercial in episode 20 stating two possible dates for a "final concert".

They are not just possible - it's been official for about a month now:

http://macrossf.com/galaxy.html

[Shun]

I'm not entirely convinced that the last episode will be 25 despite that magazine displayed it as "final". Wasn't it stated before that the final episode would be aired on Oct. 16? Either that magazine is at error or we mistook the series ending in October. I just hope its the former than the latter.

in fact i remember reading that Frontier will be a 25 ep series (which made sense to me since it's 25th anniversary) very early on when the series was starting.

i dont know when someone came out with the number 13... and then 26... yadda yadda...

iirc the wiki entry (either English or Japanese) had stated 25 eps initially, and later changed/removed.

its always been planned for 25 eps.

EDIT > in another forum (sgcollect forum), it was mentioned 25 eps as early as Nov 2007....

Edited August 29, 2008 by Shun

[azrael]

This thread is a bit more suited for 2nd season hopes. But right now, it really depends on Kawamori. It really depends if Kawamori wants to do a second season and he could close the book on this chapter of Macross or he could leave it open to come back to later (or a combination of the 2). Bandai could ask him for another series if disc sales hold up. Keep in mind a few things. Gundam 00 was always slated to be a 50-some episode series. They just split the series into 2 parts. Code Geass or Ghost in the Shell:SAC were show originally slated for 1 season, but received a second after success. This is why those shows had "R2" or "2nd Gig" added to the titles.

[stray]

I always thought the 25 episode thing just came from the DVD/BD count.

How about... Frontier gets blowed up at the end, major players make their way to Galaxy, and... series 2: "Macross: Galaxy" I think it would be good for another 12-13 episodes. Oh well... I can dream, can't I

[UN Spacy]

There is NO way they're wrapping this up in 25.

[Vinnie]

No, I really think they're going to try...and it's going to come off like Macross Zero. The only upshot is that I'm enjoying the ride up to the trainwreck here.

[Kyp Durron]

There is NO way they're wrapping this up in 25.

I don't see how they could end it in 25 either without it being craptacular.

-Kyp

[Graham]

I don't see how they could end it in 25 either without it being craptacular.

-Kyp

I don't see why not, there's not too much left to wrap up. While of course, I'd love more episodes, I think they can wrap it up nicely in 4 more eps.

Graham

[Windrider]

I don't see how they could end it in 25 either without it being craptacular.

Well, we'll never know really until we see it til the end. Who knows it might turn out better than we expect. Kawamori has surprised us before and he probably will again. I think the reason why some of us don't think it will end well within 4 episodes is because of several unanswered questions in the series within a short timespan. I believe that those questions will be answered in the last 4 episodes, at least the major ones. I won't expect all of them to be answered and some will be left open intentionally (maybe to be answered in a special OAV or movie).

Edited August 30, 2008 by Windrider

[s-girl]

Four episodes is plenty of time to wrap up major issues as well, particularly if they're all linked back to "The mystery of the Queen." Grace essentially has part of the puzzle figured out according to 20, although I'm hoping she's still wrong on one major account, and that's the influence of the "Triangle" upon the situation.

I wonder if we should keep a running tally of "all remaining unresolved issues?" Sort of like a "Plot danglers" thread.

[Vinnie]

Plot threads at the moment:

The Obvious

-Triangler

-Brera the brother?

-Sheryl's Infection

-Leon's Coup

-Vajra Origins

-Mao/Grace/Ranshe's research

-Ranka's new Vajra Adventure

Less obvious

-Alto's family ties

-Macross Galaxy's role in this

-collective galaxy conciousness voices/grace's cohorts

-Bilrer's Dream and significance

-Something Luca/LAI-ish

I feel like I'm missing a lot more.

[Tobi54]

This thread is a bit more suited for 2nd season hopes. But right now, it really depends on Kawamori. It really depends if Kawamori wants to do a second season and he could close the book on this chapter of Macross or he could leave it open to come back to later (or a combination of the 2). Bandai could ask him for another series if disc sales hold up. Keep in mind a few things. Gundam 00 was always slated to be a 50-some episode series. They just split the series into 2 parts. Code Geass or Ghost in the Shell:SAC were show originally slated for 1 season, but received a second after success. This is why those shows had "R2" or "2nd Gig" added to the titles.

Any way to find out how the sales have been doing since the first week of release? and/or how those numbers compare against other sucessful series, like the ones mentioned?

[Morpheus]

I don't see why not, there's not too much left to wrap up. While of course, I'd love more episodes, I think they can wrap it up nicely in 4 more eps.

Graham

I want more episodes, with VF-171 action and the new Stampede VF-171 action

[Isamu Starkiller]

Plot threads at the moment:

The Obvious

-Triangler

-Brera the brother?

-Sheryl's Infection

-Leon's Coup

-Vajra Origins

-Mao/Grace/Ranshe's research

-Ranka's new Vajra Adventure

Less obvious

-Alto's family ties

-Macross Galaxy's role in this

-collective galaxy conciousness voices/grace's cohorts

-Bilrer's Dream and significance

-Something Luca/LAI-ish

I feel like I'm missing a lot more.

Elmo's job as a manager?

Do the kids graduate from Mihoshi?

Is Klan a member of a Meltrandi Sorority?

When will Alto run out of paper?

[Kronnang Dunn]

For better or worse, the next 4 weeks will be legendary...

Btw...

I reaaally believe that the story developed so far may not conclude in 25... Very strong 2nd season vibes here...

Edited August 30, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Westlo]

Any way to find out how the sales have been doing since the first week of release? and/or how those numbers compare against other sucessful series, like the ones mentioned?

DVD sales

Macross F (Frontier) (Satelight)

2008/07/25 22,183 Vol. 1 (Three versions of Episode 1)

Blueray sales in the first week are 22k, no figures for the weeks after have been released since Oricon only rankas blueray titles and doesn't list sales figures. The only reason we got the figures in the first week is because it was big news that a blueray version outsold a dvd version.

As for how it compares to other stuff... well if you add the two versions together it's the highest selling anime volume of the year, Gundam 00 Vol1 did 42k on dvd, I think the bluerays for that aren't out yet or didn't sell much.

[Gubaba]

DVD sales

Macross F (Frontier) (Satelight)

2008/07/25 22,183 Vol. 1 (Three versions of Episode 1)

Blueray sales in the first week are 22k, no figures for the weeks after have been released since Oricon only rankas blueray titles and doesn't list sales figures. The only reason we got the figures in the first week is because it was big news that a blueray version outsold a dvd version.

As for how it compares to other stuff... well if you add the two versions together it's the highest selling anime volume of the year, Gundam 00 Vol1 did 42k on dvd, I think the bluerays for that aren't out yet or didn't sell much.

Sorry...had to point that out...if you have to make a typo, that one's pretty good!

But thanks for the information...seems like Frontier is selling briskly. And if, as you conjecture, it's selling as much if not more than Gundam 00, then I'm guessing we'll see more Macross sooner rather than later...

[Major Focker]

ranka going away smells of a setup for a potential second season. unless of course she comes back (likely).

[Kronnang Dunn]

ranka going away smells of a setup for a potential second season. unless of course she comes back (likely).

I hope she nevers come back then... (until season 2 that's it...)

I just thought of the perfect season finale episode... the last scene showing Ranka going farther away from Frontier during her search for the Vajra "home" while a Megumi Nakajima cover of the song "Runner" from the original SDF Macross is heard in the background...

Edited August 30, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[UN Spacy]

Five episodes is just not enough time.

[Strumvogel]

*moved to the youtube thread which I just noticed

To keep things relevant and not waste this post.

The very fact people are complaining now about how they are going resolve the story with just 4-5 episodes left is something I've been asking as far back as ep.16-18 and to thus far I've been feeling that the story hasn't been moving fast enough.

However though that's not to say that it can't be done within those few episodes left. After all just the remaining episodes' running time is equivalent to almost a movie length at 80 mins.

Here's to hoping. I really just wish that the past 5 episodes is such a drag though.

Edited August 30, 2008 by Strumvogel

[Final Vegeta]

-Triangler

Last episode.

-Brera the brother?

When Ranka will totally regain her memory (probably next episode) or a sudden revelation before Brera dies to protect Ranka (last or next-to-last episode).

There could a plot twist, though:

Ranka was adopted even by Ranshe, while Brera was her son, therefore Brera and Ranka wouldn't be blood-related

.

Either way, Brera either is or isn't Ranka's brother. It is not possible they spend an entire episode with him doing things to become Ranka's brother. As with many other items in this list, this will be resolved with just few words.

-Sheryl's Infection

Probably a critical moment in the climax of the last episode.

-Leon's Coup

Already succesful. What is undecided is the fate of Ozma and Cathy.

-Vajra Origins

The Vajra can only be either already pre-existing or artificially created, therefore you easily explain it with just a few words, probably from a flashback with Ranka eavesdropping Grace, Ranshe and Mao.

-Mao/Grace/Ranshe's research

Ranka's flashback mentioned above.

The fate of the 117th research fleet could take an entire episode instead, but it will be reduced to a brief flashback, seen from the point of view of Ranka, therefore missing some pieces. We alredy know that the 117th research fleet was destroyed though, so we just need to know why the Vajra attacked it in the first place. This is likely to be related to Ranka, so again a flashback of her can explain it all.

-Ranka's new Vajra Adventure

There's no way this one won't be resolved. Ranka will come back so that the love triangle will be resolved.

-Alto's family ties

I don't wish to read spoilers, but this one seems to be resolved in one way or the other.

-Macross Galaxy's role in this

Will or won't be resolved, but Grace is deeply involved with this, so this will be probably explained in an exchange of words between Grace and Leon. It is become their common goal, after all.

-collective galaxy conciousness voices/grace's cohorts

Typically it's never explained where the villains come from. They were in a position to do these things and they did it. It's enough. People were fans of Star Wars long before they knew where Darth Vader came from, the same for The Lord of The Rings.

-Bilrer's Dream and significance

Last episode, after they decide what to do with the Vajra.

-Something Luca/LAI-ish

LAI is just a corporation that produce things, and they have already made enough gadgets. Luca's personal quest is to score with Nanase, and the last episode will or won't tell. Either way, Luca is a secondary character, and it doesn't matter the outcome

FV

[magnuskn]

Of course they can resolve this all pretty quickly, but then it would miss that care to detail we had for the last 21 episodes. So far the creators dont seem to be rushed with the plot, so I think they are already planning for S2

-Macross Galaxy's role in this

Will or won't be resolved, but Grace is deeply involved with this, so this will be probably explained in an exchange of words between Grace and Leon. It is become their common goal, after all.

-collective galaxy conciousness voices/grace's cohorts

Typically it's never explained where the villains come from. They were in a position to do these things and they did it. It's enough. People were fans of Star Wars long before they knew where Darth Vader came from, the same for The Lord of The Rings.

If all the plotting of the Galaxy AIs doesn´t comes to more than being surprised that Ranka returns as the queen of the Vajra, rescuieng Frontier from an attack by Galaxy, then I declare that side-plot deeply stupid.

They could have easily done the series without involving a deeper conspiracy that comes to nothing in the end, so I think it needs to be the set-up for a S2.

[Duke Togo]

For better or worse, the next 4 weeks will be legendary...

Or it could pull a Macross Zero, and leave everyone sort of flat.

[Tobi54]

DVD sales

Macross F (Frontier) (Satelight)

2008/07/25 22,183 Vol. 1 (Three versions of Episode 1)

Blueray sales in the first week are 22k, no figures for the weeks after have been released since Oricon only rankas blueray titles and doesn't list sales figures. The only reason we got the figures in the first week is because it was big news that a blueray version outsold a dvd version.

As for how it compares to other stuff... well if you add the two versions together it's the highest selling anime volume of the year, Gundam 00 Vol1 did 42k on dvd, I think the bluerays for that aren't out yet or didn't sell much.

Thanks for the info, add to that all the CD's sold, and they got in their hands a pretty sucessful series. Let's say Kawamori and Satelight actually plan to do another Macross project be it Frontier or not, what would be more likely, another series or an OVA? I was just wondering because I just saw the Blu-Ray rips or Zero, and it looks absolutely amazing on high definition, and it's already 5 years old, I'd love to see what they can pull off with an OVA budget with current technology. I'm guessing hoping for a movie it's out of the question for now, correct me if I'm wrong, but franchises that turned into movies went from season 1, to season 2, to OVA, to movie, or some sort or variation from that right?

[Final Vegeta]

If all the plotting of the Galaxy AIs doesn´t comes to more than being surprised that Ranka returns as the queen of the Vajra, rescuieng Frontier from an attack by Galaxy, then I declare that side-plot deeply stupid.

I don't think they are AIs, they are probably just people that control the Galaxy Fleet. As such, they would exist reguardless of Ranka being the Little Queen. They didn't gather to scheme a way to realize a particular prophecy, they are there to catch opportunities as the world gave them. They are not even special, other Macross fleets may have something like them.

They could have easily done the series without involving a deeper conspiracy that comes to nothing in the end, so I think it needs to be the set-up for a S2.

I don't think there will be a S2. There are no real plot points they could expand upon, except a war against the Macross Galaxy, but this is not likely to happen because they kept themselves in the shadow.

FV

[magnuskn]

I don't think there will be a S2. There are no real plot points they could expand upon, except a war against the Macross Galaxy, but this is not likely to happen because they kept themselves in the shadow.

I disagree profoundly. There is great potential for a pure human vs. cyborg conflict. Galaxy obviously chose Frontier as a target, because they are a fleet where implants are forbidden.

Also, the whole sub-plot about Mr. Bilrer and his dream of a galactic railway ( which seems to be in opposition of whatever Graces faction wants to do ) would also have to be sub-developed or dropped, if everything finishes now.

There has been much build-up of a greater plot than "Raaaahr! Another Vajra attack!", for the whole series. Unless they *somehow* manage to wrap that one up satisfactorily, it´s easy to find how they could expand upon it for a S2.

[Morpheus]

I disagree profoundly. There is great potential for a pure human vs. cyborg conflict. Galaxy obviously chose Frontier as a target, because they are a fleet where implants are forbidden.

Also, the whole sub-plot about Mr. Bilrer and his dream of a galactic railway ( which seems to be in opposition of whatever Graces faction wants to do ) would also have to be sub-developed or dropped, if everything finishes now.

There has been much build-up of a greater plot than "Raaaahr! Another Vajra attack!", for the whole series. Unless they *somehow* manage to wrap that one up satisfactorily, it´s easy to find how they could expand upon it for a S2.

Macross Frontier :The Galaxy Menace

Macross Frontier : Attack of the Cyborg

Macross Frontier : The Revenge of Vajra

Only George Kawamori would make the above sequel.

[magnuskn]

Macross Frontier :The Galaxy Menace

Macross Frontier : Attack of the Cyborg

Macross Frontier : The Revenge of Vajra

Only George Kawamori would make the above sequel.

Which, uh, means you approve or disapprove of my suggestion of the theme for a S2?

[Final Vegeta]

I disagree profoundly. There is great potential for a pure human vs. cyborg conflict. Galaxy obviously chose Frontier as a target, because they are a fleet where implants are forbidden.

Also, the whole sub-plot about Mr. Bilrer and his dream of a galactic railway ( which seems to be in opposition of whatever Graces faction wants to do ) would also have to be sub-developed or dropped, if everything finishes now.

There has been much build-up of a greater plot than "Raaaahr! Another Vajra attack!", for the whole series. Unless they *somehow* manage to wrap that one up satisfactorily, it´s easy to find how they could expand upon it for a S2.

I think you've misunderstood Macross Frontier.

Frankly, Bilrer's enterprise is not interesting as a story. We just need to know what he is able to do, and then in a later Macross we will see the results. We need a timeskip for this kind of things. It's not being sub-developed, it's being secondary to the story.

What Bilrer and Grace are ultimately involved with is the destiny of the Vajra, and this is central to the plot, therefore it should be resolved in the last episode.

Macross Frontier is centered around the war against the Vajra. The role of Bilrer is to have a paramilitary organization that allows Alto to keep his long hair. The role of Grace is to have a project that made Sheryl a famous singer. The role of Ai-kun is to have Ranka as the voice of the Vajra.

Essentially, all factions are there to gather the main characters together, so that they can have their love triangle, songs and Valkyrie, which is what constitutes Macross. The love triangle here is the sandglass that tells how much time we have left, and it's almost over.

Alto has already said why he likes the sky, Sheryl has learnt of her illness and Ranka is beginning to understand her tie with the Vajra. The characters have almost exhausted their possibilities as far as characterization goes.

As I said, the only thing that could be expanded upon is a war with Macross Galaxy, but there is no direct relation with the main characters. They may never know it was all Galaxy's fault all along.

There is no actual human vs cyborg conflict. Galaxy probably wants to promote implants everywhere, but it's never being mentioned any kind of racism or antipathy related to implants up to now, only the decision of a secret cabal to exploit the fact that Frontier lacked cyborgs. If it's only to show some differences between naturals and cyborgs, then Brera would suffice as example.

FV

[Sergorn]

As I said, the only thing that could be expanded upon is a war with Macross Galaxy, but there is no direct relation with the main characters. They may never know it was all Galaxy's fault all along.

Heh ? Frankly if the series ended with basically nobody knowing of the Galaxy's role or involvement that would be rather lame.

I really hope thing will be coming to a head with the Galaxy by the end of the series.

-Sergorn

[magnuskn]

I think you've misunderstood Macross Frontier.

Frankly, Bilrer's enterprise is not interesting as a story. We just need to know what he is able to do, and then in a later Macross we will see the results. We need a timeskip for this kind of things. It's not being sub-developed, it's being secondary to the story.

What Bilrer and Grace are ultimately involved with is the destiny of the Vajra, and this is central to the plot, therefore it should be resolved in the last episode.

Macross Frontier is centered around the war against the Vajra. The role of Bilrer is to have a paramilitary organization that allows Alto to keep his long hair. The role of Grace is to have a project that made Sheryl a famous singer. The role of Ai-kun is to have Ranka as the voice of the Vajra.

Essentially, all factions are there to gather the main characters together, so that they can have their love triangle, songs and Valkyrie, which is what constitutes Macross. The love triangle here is the sandglass that tells how much time we have left, and it's almost over.

Alto has already said why he likes the sky, Sheryl has learnt of her illness and Ranka is beginning to understand her tie with the Vajra. The characters have almost exhausted their possibilities as far as characterization goes.

As I said, the only thing that could be expanded upon is a war with Macross Galaxy, but there is no direct relation with the main characters. They may never know it was all Galaxy's fault all along.

There is no actual human vs cyborg conflict. Galaxy probably wants to promote implants everywhere, but it's never being mentioned any kind of racism or antipathy related to implants up to now, only the decision of a secret cabal to exploit the fact that Frontier lacked cyborgs. If it's only to show some differences between naturals and cyborgs, then Brera would suffice as example.

FV

Are you for real? Okay, I´ll need to ramble a bit.

First off, you don´t introduce random elements into a series which in the end turn out to be for basically nothing, if you have any skill as a writer. If you have a scene in a room where a sword hangs on the wall, it better damned get used somehow somewhere!

If Galaxies AIs have no bigger bearing on the series than to take up one episode with their chatter, then they should´t have been used at all. The time they took up could have been better used to make the Vajra something else than a faceless bug army, who have shown no personality at all during the whole series.

The same goes for Mr. Bilrer and his galactic railway. At the end of episode 15 he was introduced to us as some sort of big revelation, and I don´t think the impression the creators wanted to give us was just "Gee, it´s a Zentraedi advisor in a wheelchair! And he likes trains! How EXCITING!". The scenes screamed "Set-up for an important character!" back then, but so far there has been no cash-out on that investment.

If no further development on those two fronts would have been planned, then it would have behooved the creators to give us more background on the Vajra. So far, we know that they were somehow connected to the 117th and that the queen of Gallia IV could make a vision of Rankas mom. I have no doubt that we´ll get more on them in the last four episodes, but for the vast mayority of the series, all they have done is attack Frontier, then attack Frontier some more. No motivation, no negotiation, no personality. The only reason that they haven´t become the most boring enemy in Macross history, is that we know that there is another faction manipulating them.

And that faction, Macross Galaxy, cannot be dealt with in another Macross series 10 years down the line. They either get defeated decisively right now, in the next four episodes, or they should get theirs in a second season. You cannot introduce a bunch of characters into a storyline, declare them to be the "real game" and then drop them like hot potatoes. At least not if you are a writer worth spit.

As for the main characters, I don´t think we have scratched the surface of them yet. Yes, the love triangle is nearing its conclusion, but there are still many things which could be done with them. Characters can be more complex than a one-liner about them.

Now, with the numerous colonization fleets out there, who knows how many of them are purely human and how many are cyborged up. If the cyborgs feel that they are now superior to the norms, then I do sense a conflict coming up. Macross Galaxy is not afraid to push that button, if it serves their ( still nebulous ) plans, so why don´t do it in a season two?

And this brings me to my final point: The Macross universe must move a bit away from another enemy who just needs a beautiful song to be won over.

We have had now three or four such antagonists? The Zentraedi, the Protodevlin, the Birdmen and now the Vajra? Wouldn´t have some people already said "Enough of this!", if it weren´t for the interminably long time we had to wait for another Macross series? You can only repeat a story so many times, before it becomes stagnant.

Or are we all really just waiting for the Supervision Army to show up, and humanity just needs a new special songstress. To repeat the same story all over again?

Let´s rather tell a new story in the Macross universe. How the inner conflict between the human and cyborg colonization fleets threatened to extinct humanity, and that conflict needed to be overcome. Preferably with good music.

Edited August 30, 2008 by magnuskn

[UN Spacy]

Well said magnuskn.