Macross Frontier Episode 20 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Shaka_Z]

remember to check my post on page 14 concerning surviving vacuum exposure

woohoo ownership of page 15 is mine!!!

Edited August 22, 2008 by Shaka_Z

[wolfx]

I still can't understand how some of you ppl can't accept the fact that Michael is just dead...

Did Roy ever came back? No...

Michael won't too...

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The End

Actually i think its just me who can't accept it now.

Focker? Ozma took his role. Why not Gamlin?

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So its back to 50/50.

Not yet the end.

Kibou daaaa......

[wolfx]

actually, if he was 100% human, he would have about 30 seconds before he went unconscious, another 30 seconds tops before the alveoli in his lungs started to rupture, and perhaps one more minute before that damage would be irreversible - this has been proven by NASA testing back in the 60's and 70's. the results were pretty much constant, without regard to body mass, and it was found that attempting to hold one's breath under those conditions would only hasten the damage... forcibly exhaling was found to actually help for a few seconds. sorry to burst everyones bubble, but things like blood boiling, seeping thru the skin etc do not happen, although brief periods of exposure might subject one to a dangerous case of the bends, as nitrogen in the blood would escape thru the skin. the most dangerous thing to surviving vacuum exposure is the lung damage as even if the victim is returned to atmosphere, they would no longer be able to absorb oxygen - some kind of direct infusion would be required, and the human brain can survive for about 5 minutes without oxygen and not suffer critical damage.

so, given that Michael is not fully human, it is possible that given his injuries he might be able to survive vacuum for perhaps as long as an uninjured human might - I wouldnt count on any more than that.

Thanks for that science lesson. I underestimated his chances.

So see....its not the end of Mihairu yet. Its JUST vacuum (and a flesh wound....). RAW RAW FIGHT DA POWAH!!!

Edited August 22, 2008 by wolfx

[deadghost]

But I don't think Klan will use his VF-25G, I hope Sheryl will....

Honestly, I can actually see klan using his vf-25( miyra = red vf-1) . But klan lost her love or inspiration/ joy, she will not be the same character and thus I am sad to say that she might suffer a death reuniting her to her lover in a spiritual way (like romeo and juliet). Also my 8 ball predicts that brera will join sms squadron, and maybe we well see the new yf-26 fighters. But Luca better F!@#$ die, he was suppose to die, matter of fact I never see this kid killing anything, and I actually saw luca holding a pistol.

Edited August 22, 2008 by deadghost

[brouken]

Do you know what they said about the dead SMS woman at the entry of the miclonization chamber? Does anybody has a pic of her?

I agree that she looks a lot like Lalamia. Michel was saying:

"Nande konna koto ni...Tatakau no mo, shinu no mo... Hetai(?) dake de jyuubun darou? Nande, nande dayo!"

Why has it come to this...fighting, dying...(I don't understand the word "Hetai") is enough isn't it? Why! Why!!

That's how far I understood it with my nihongo. There was no reference as to who she is in that scene's dialogue.

I also agree that bringing back Michel in the next or following episodes would ruin the emotional impact this episode just made. At the very least, he'll probably come back in spirit form right beside Klan during a fight, or during the last episode.

The Japanese like their sweets with bitter. Its this sharp contrast that gives life to the other.

And here I thought that Macross F was too lighthearted. Way to bring back the show Kawamori-san!

[UN Spacy]

Fellas. Michael's death was done pretty damn well.

Bringing him back would just cheapen the moment.

[Holocause]

Its also sad that with Michael gone, there will be no further expounding on his sister's past. Its also a shame that their family line will end there with no one to pass the torch on to.

[dreamweaver13]

So see....its not the end of Mihairu yet. Its JUST vacuum (and a flesh wound....). RAW RAW FIGHT DA POWAH!!!

NO FAIR!!! Now how do i possibly argue with that when you've quoted the universal phrase for making the impossible possible?!!

ummm.... errr.... arg..... ROW ROW FIGHT DA POWAH!!! damm u!!

[junior]

Sorry man, I have to call you on that. While that bit about freezing someone and defrosting may be possible with the medical technology in 2059 there are a few things in this scenario that inhibit the idea. First thing is the brain needs oxygen constantly and if all the blood pathways are frozen, despite lack of air, then it doesn't get it. The ideas behind cryogenics state we'd need to replace blood with liquid oxygen while a body is frozen to keep the brain going while the heart isn't pumping.

I've read about people surviving for at least an hour with minimal long-term damage after a sudden submersion into conditions that basically froze them almost instantly. So it isn't pretty, but the basic idea is there.

As for the "blood boiled, pressure, etc..." every time I turn around someone's telling me that, "No, that particular idea is wrong about what happens to you in vacuum. This is what REALLY happens!" So you'll have to forgive me if I take it with a grain of salt.

And in any case, it's what Kawamori believes if he's really interested in bringing Michael back.

As I mentioned in my original post, in Gundam SEED we had Mr. "His helmet is floating shattered in space!" turn up with just a scar and amnesia in SEED Destiny.

[Raptor One]

Honestly, I can actually see klan using his vf-25( miyra = red vf-1) . But klan lost her love or inspiration/ joy, she will not be the same character and thus I am sad to say that she might suffer a death reuniting her to her lover in a spiritual way (like romeo and juliet). Also my 8 ball predicts that brera will join sms squadron, and maybe we well see the new yf-26 fighters. But Luca better F!@#$ die, he was suppose to die, matter of fact I never see this kid killing anything, and I actually saw luca holding a pistol.

What is this YF-26 you keep referring to?

[Kronnang Dunn]

Fellas. Michael's death was done pretty damn well.

Bringing him back would just cheapen the moment.

You just read my mind...

[kaibrightwing]

the way the story is going everyone is going to die. i loved the way he made fun of klan it was a classic big brother picking on little sister act. I'll be really mad if klan klan dies she is sooo cool.

[Shaka_Z]

btw guys... I am not saying that michael will come back. it is possible, but highly unlikely - and if he does you can fully expect him to be a cyborg, because they would have had to replace his lungs at the very least. depending on how long he was exposed to vacuum, if he survived he might have varying degrees of brain damage up to and including serious motor function issues or amnesia, and there is no telling if he would ever be himself again. if he does come back that way, it might be doubly tragic in that klan might end up having to kill him a second time - highly likely if Grace gets her claws on him.

[Kronnang Dunn]

btw guys... I am not saying that michael will come back. it is possible, but highly unlikely - and if he does you can fully expect him to be a cyborg, because they would have had to replace his lungs at the very least. depending on how long he was exposed to vacuum, if he survived he might have varying degrees of brain damage up to and including serious motor function issues or amnesia, and there is no telling if he would ever be himself again. if he does come back that way, it might be doubly tragic in that klan might end up having to kill him a second time - highly likely if Grace gets her claws on him.

Highly possible if the series last long enough. However... Like Major Ohgothwai... I hardly think he may come back now... Only 5-8 episodes to go... Not enough time I think...

[Windrider]

haha, i'm actually near marikina city, so i guess i'd better start having a personal body guard from now on (not that it did President Glass any good).

Hmm... It seems there are more pinoys in this forum than I thought. Good to see that I have kabayans here.

@polidread

Your name sounds awfully familiar. Reminds me of a friend of mine back in my college days when I was in UP Fine Arts. He's a cool artist and he made an impressive gundam costume from scratch. You wouldn't happen to know him by chance?

Edited August 22, 2008 by Windrider

[brouken]

btw guys... I am not saying that michael will come back. it is possible, but highly unlikely - and if he does you can fully expect him to be a cyborg, because they would have had to replace his lungs at the very least. depending on how long he was exposed to vacuum, if he survived he might have varying degrees of brain damage up to and including serious motor function issues or amnesia, and there is no telling if he would ever be himself again. if he does come back that way, it might be doubly tragic in that klan might end up having to kill him a second time - highly likely if Grace gets her claws on him.

Hmm, possible. However, but we have to consider that Frontier is a Bioplant/city. Cyborg and implants are NOT allowed, hence we can assume there is a lack of facilities for such onboard.

Of course we can assume that Michel's body might be found by Galaxy who is just lurking somewhere.

And yes Windrider, we Pinoys love Macross! And yes, Polidread is THE Polidread of DeviantArt fame, cosplayer extraordinaire, Gundam and Macross alike.

[wolfx]

Hmm, possible. However, but we have to consider that Frontier is a Bioplant/city. Cyborg and implants are NOT allowed, hence we can assume there is a lack of facilities for such onboard.

Grace MKII was on Frontier so i dun think its an issue since we can also assume that memories can be uploaded/downloaded ala GITS.

[Morpheus]

Hmm, possible. However, but we have to consider that Frontier is a Bioplant/city. Cyborg and implants are NOT allowed, hence we can assume there is a lack of facilities for such onboard.

Of course we can assume that Michel's body might be found by Galaxy who is just lurking somewhere.

And yes Windrider, we Pinoys love Macross! And yes, Polidread is THE Polidread of DeviantArt fame, cosplayer extraordinaire, Gundam and Macross alike.

Grace 2.0 was reconstructed in Frontier, so It would be safe to say that such facilities are available in Frontier.

Can we stop arguing whether Michel will be back or not and just accept that he's in GARhalla now

I got Starship Trooper vibes when I watch Frontier troops fighting the bugs and got hugged/crushed by it.

[brouken]

Grace 2.0 was reconstructed in Frontier, so It would be safe to say that such facilities are available in Frontier.

Can we stop arguing whether Michel will be back or not and just accept that he's in GARhalla now

I got Starship Trooper vibes when I watch Frontier troops fighting the bugs and got hugged/crushed by it.

I believe that was an EXTRA body, not a reconstructed one. Grace could've packed a whole bunch of them when they arrived from Galaxy.

And even if personas could be downloaded, Michel IS a frontier citizen, meaning he could not have a personality stored in some database somewhere, since you would need to have some sort of implant for that to be possible.

I agree once again that we should put this discussion to rest. Talking about how it would be possible to bring Michel back is just plain geeking out.

We should recognize his death for what it is: a heroic sacrifice that would forever immortalize him in MF fans' minds.

And yeah, even the MF infantry uniforms and gear look like those from Starship troopers.

[Windrider]

Though its not impossible of Michel surviving by some miracle its really very improbable. Although we know that SK has screwed us before with false death flags in this series its very anti-climactic and cheesy if he lived through it even with the most plausible of alibis. Personally if SK wanted him to live then he wouldn't have place him in a death scene at all.

IMO the reason for his death was to drive Alto (perhaps even Klan) to the edge. I don't think having any other character die wouldn't have as much impact on Alto than Michel. Despite their differences he's probably Alto's closest male friend.

@brouken

I knew it. I'll send him a PM to say hi. I haven't seen the guy in a long while.

Edited August 22, 2008 by Windrider

[Morpheus]

IMO the reason for his death was to drive Alto (perhaps even Klan) to the edge. I don't think having any other character die wouldn't have as much impact on Alto than Michel. Despite their differences he's probably Alto's closest male friend.

@brouken

I knew it. I'll send him a PM to say hi. I haven't seen the guy in a long while.

Alto....let see, he saw Gilliam juiced by Vajra, he saw Raramia blown up to space dust, and now he saw Michel impaled by Vajra and sucked into space. Not to mention he was helped by the Zentran 131th marine fleet before they got eaten by Dimension eater.

How many people around Alto need to die before Alto return back to Kabuki?

[wolfx]

I agree once again that we should put this discussion to rest. Talking about how it would be possible to bring Michel back is just plain geeking out.

I do agree we stop talking about it but not conclude he is dead until its a sure thing. Its too The more i watch it the more I see a chance for him to come back. There's the thing of a missing Ai-kun as well which might be the thing that saved Michel.

All this "accept it he's dead, stop talking bout it" talk is just plain pushy and silly.

[sucker4meltrans]

my vote is on Klan pulling someone/thing apart limb from limb with her bare hands in the near future.

[Morpheus]

my vote is on Klan pulling someone/thing apart limb from limb with her bare hands in the near future.

I'm picturing Klan in miclone form, eating a bucket of fried chicken........damn that makes me hungry.....

Finding Ai-kun among the Vajra rush is just like finding Waldo

[sucker4meltrans]

i still can't figure out where that bow on the back of ranka's head attaches to.

[Final Vegeta]

I do agree we stop talking about it but not conclude he is dead until its a sure thing. Its too The more i watch it the more I see a chance for him to come back. There's the thing of a missing Ai-kun as well which might be the thing that saved Michel.

All this "accept it he's dead, stop talking bout it" talk is just plain pushy and silly.

And what about the possibility that the Global was actually the true SDF-1 all the time?

FV

[sucker4meltrans]

And what about the possibility that the Global was actually the true SDF-1 all the time?

FV

no no no no! plus i sure the macross gov't made sure the old girl couldn't even so much as lift an inch off the ground after sharon apple.

[Shun]

HUNGRY VAJRA....

yum yum..... they only eat your lower body

sure zentradi have better space vacuum resistance, but there's the issue of oxygen supply. Mikhail was only in EX-Gear, not a full pilot suit. If a person was to save him, that person would need to be pretty close in order to reach him. Now another problem that would affect him would be the wounds he suffered. I have no idea of the details, but getting stabbed in the chest doesn't help his chances of survival.

u guys should watch SDF:M TV series... really

Breetai did a space walk without a space suit. we dont really know if Mikhail is a Zentradi... space vacuum shouldn't pose much of a problem for zents, although i agree with many of u, kinda spoils the story if Mikhail somehow survives.

Err... Raramia has been dead since episode 14 dude... What u saw was her dead replacement (and she did look a lot like the original).

Am i missing something? Where did u guys get the info about the dead girl being a pixie? although it might explain her trying to get to macronization chamber, she might be a meltran but being a pixie???! we were never shown any pics of the pixie replacement (if any at all).

i think what Mikhail said suggested that she's not even a combat personnel.

There was an announcement in the middle of the Episode saying Final Macross F 10/16, so I think that is pretty official

ok, just to repeat again what others have already answered - NOPE... the announcement was about a concert, NOT about the anime episode.

wow, u guys are speculating way too much. Pixie replacement and final episode...

I could imagine the fan uproar on the deaths on this episode.

random fan 1# "Noooooo, Michel.....T.T"

random fan 2# "Michel......"

random fan 3# "President Glass is dead too you know, anyone mourn for him?"

random fan 4# "Michel, noooooo......wait...what president?"

So now Leon got total control of Frontier, I wonder what he will do next. Besides I positively heard Grace said that the Vajra sudden invasion is not planned at all and it would ruin her actual plan if Frontier sunk at this time.

So many fans blaming Ranka for Michel death, well Ranka had her part in summoning the Vajra to overrun Frontier, but she doesn't know the fact that her emotions is directly related with the Vajra behavior. Poor Ranka, you are truly destined to became the Queen Bitch of the Galaxy with your own Vajra Hive.

BTW, I wonder why Alto keep firing his handgun on top of Mihoshi and not getting devoured by the Vajra, bigger gun -> more reason for Vajra to attack?

hahah true. no one cares about the President.

many people conveniently blames Ranka for the deaths but they also conveniently forgot that she was not aware that her emotion is the key to controlling the vajra, and more importantly it is the Grace + Anonymous who are to blame for all the scheming - vajra hive in frontier, vajra experiments, EVEN putting the damn fold quartz in her belly! Ranka's the victim.

and also victim to Sheryl's JEALOUS slap (just to piss off sheryl fans for kicks lol)

As for Michel, i blame Klan Klan's Kiss of Death.

/dodges & runs

Edited August 22, 2008 by Shun

[dreamweaver13]

HUNGRY VAJRA....

and also victim to Sheryl's JEALOUS slap (just to piss off sheryl fans for kicks lol)

I agree. Ranka's absurd and unreasonable jealousy does deserve a slap, hence a "JEALOUS SLAP" (hehe, sorry i'm not affected that easily. )

but i'd still call it a MINMAY SLAP. now if only it was juxtaposed with a destroid exploding, it would have been perfect!

[magnuskn]

ok, just to repeat again what others have already answered - NOPE... the announcement was about a concert, NOT about the anime episode.

wow, u guys are speculating way too much. Pixie replacement and final episode...

Didn´t Westlo say a few weeks ago that the concert will coincide with the final episode?

[Shun]

I agree. Ranka's absurd and unreasonable jealousy does deserve a slap, hence a "JEALOUS SLAP" (hehe, sorry i'm not affected that easily. )

but i'd still call it a MINMAY SLAP. now if only it was juxtaposed with a destroid exploding, it would have been perfect!

its ok. I'm not a diehard Sheryl fan NOR diehard Ranka fan... just trying to mess wif diehard fans lol

its true Ranka was emotionally affected by what she saw - IMO its still no where near confirming a romantic relation between Alto and Sheryl. some folks in this thread somehow saw that Alto has chosen Sheryl for certainty... while that may be the case in the finale, what i see is Alto didn't even make any decision yet.

Sheryl's slap is funny because she had always been confident in succeeding in whatever she did, especially her singing, but she now knows its not true - her singing has little or no effect to vajra, unlike Ranka. Although we all know Ranka had unfair advantage in that belly of hers , Sheryl doesn't know about that, and she is very frustrated yet not quite resigned to the fact that Ranka's "better". well, in this world, u don't always get what you want, and u don't always get to be the best, yet Sheryl is such a spoiled brat that she's emotionally hurt just because someone else does something better than her.

Seems to me Sheryl's slap is partly or hugely due to that frustration. Between the slapper and her victim, the person who's more hurt is actually the slapper (Sheryl).

Edited August 22, 2008 by Shun

[Impreszive]

This really was a good episode. I think the series may have taken a pretty dark turn (well, obviously). I have a bad feeling that a lot of people are going to die in quick order.

[Gubaba]

This really was a good episode. I think the series may have taken a pretty dark turn (well, obviously). I have a bad feeling that a lot of people are going to die in quick order.

If so, it would be the first Macross series to kill off a lot of characters.

Nameless bystanders? Yes. 98 and 44/100 of the earth's population? Sure. But most of the characters usually survive.

I'm not saying there won't be a huge bloodbath that kills off most of the cast...just that Macross has never taken us there before.

Of course, Frontier's done a LOT of things that no Macross series has done before...

[wolfx]

And what about the possibility that the Global was actually the true SDF-1 all the time?

FV

Nah...i found out the original SDF-1 was refitted.

and rechristened.....FIREBOMBER. BOMBA!

Edited August 22, 2008 by wolfx

[Gubaba]

Nah...i found out the original SDF-1 was refitted.

BOMBAA!!